Marvellous, we need a good technical protest to start the season. Gives the FIA something to do.Originally Posted by Chris_in_the_UK
Strap yourselves in...
Although no trees were harmed during the creation of this post, a large number of electrons were greatly inconvenienced.
I'd completely forgotten about DAS... Surely the FIA would have already banned it by now if they had any reason to, it's not as if no-one knew about it until now.
I suppose Christian Horner had to start somewhere in trying to use up his quota of complaints, though.
When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........
I was a bit surprised that Red Bull has put in a protest hours before the Austrian GP, rather than months ago, when the DAS was first identified and months after Mercedes actually had its use approved for 2020.
Nothing like creating a bit a drama to bolster media interest.
Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
Friedrich Nietzsche
Protest rejected. As expected.
So Christian Horner on seeing that Red Bulls performance (so far) is not that great, decides to try and equal the field by challenging (and failing) the legality of the Mercs.
Nothing new there then.
I would have thought there would have been more of a fuss regarding the Merc content of the racing point, the FIA saying it’s legal is begging for an appeal
Last edited by adrianw; 4th July 2020 at 09:50.
I like the Mercedes tweet “Das is gut” 😀
Is the thinking that RBR have their own system ready to go once their complaint fails?
And complaint is thrown out (for now)
When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........
SkyF1 are showing a program today about racial diversity in motorsport with Lewis Hamilton, maybe he is going to spend some of his vast fortune sponsoring up and coming drivers!
unfortunately motorsport is about money not talent
If anyone is interested in club racing Castle Combe seem to have got their act together
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=r-maGHUmiOw
Race three is the GT race
F1 Quali is back. Wahoo!
Oh dear Vettel
Oh dear Ferrari. That car looks like it's 5th fastestOh dear Vettel
I imagine Vettel will be happier with 11th and strategy options, as opposed to Leclerc being a place ahead but stuck on softs.
Edit:scrap that, cracking q3 lap from Chuck.
Last edited by WarrenVrs; 4th July 2020 at 15:01.
Racing point proving the Toyota theory that you can buy anything in Formula one if you have enough money
What do you mean? Toyota had just about the largest budget in F1 history, and achieved mediocrity.
As you never post anything positive about anybody other than Lewis Hamilton, as you only have eyes for him, I'd like to congratulate Racing Point on their performance - as Otmar Szafnauer pointed out at pre-season testing, they weren't going to build a copy of the slowest car, were they? The FIA have been involved during the winter in checking every stage of Racing Point's build of their 2020 car, and if they're happy with it, and Mercedes rule-stretching DAS (not the first time that Mercedes have been interpreting the rules with more than a degree of latitude), then it's legal.
A tremendous job by Lando Norris to get fourth, and Max Verstappen will be starting on Mediums, so has an advantage on race strategy, as will Vettel.
1.7 seconds covered the whole field during Q1. Although this circuit is a bit of an oddity, and can throw up some unusual results, it's a promising sign that the midfield should produce some decent racing this year.
Although no trees were harmed during the creation of this post, a large number of electrons were greatly inconvenienced.
Considering that I don’t like Hamilton or the lack of balance in what is supposed to be the same class of racing you misunderstand me, My comment about Toyota was exactly as you stated, they couldn’t do it, but racing point are about to prove you can buy your way to the front of the grid. The issue isn’t the overall design of the car, it is the proportion of Mercedes content.
Racing Point are now using the Mercedes wind tunnel, which is handy.
Can you remember the Shadow/Arrows controversy of many years ago? Teams will always look at the cars at the sharp end to inform their own designs. Even Adrian Newey prowls around the grid before a race, looking at what the opposition has come up with. Everybody does it.
Racing Point rose from the ashes of Force India, and without the involvement of Lawrence Stroll we would have lost another team from the sport. And they are, on the evidence of this weekend, now a competitive team. Yes, there's more than a degree of plagiarism, but they've had to build the car themselves, albeit in partnership with Mercedes, as they use the Mercedes power unit, gearbox, and rear suspension, so there will be inevitable similarities, and if the back end resembles a Mercedes, given the importance of aerodynamics, the front end will need to be similar as well.
I'm disappointed to see just how similar the car is to the 2019 Mercedes, but my interest in Formula 1 goes back to a time when a team could buy year-old cars from the front runners, and compete. I don't have a problem with that, but these days running a Formula 1 team is so much more complex than it was half a century ago.
Although no trees were harmed during the creation of this post, a large number of electrons were greatly inconvenienced.
another issue is that the front running teams who choose to sell or deal in technology can pick and choose who their customers or partners will be, with the level of control the FIA and the liberty want over the class, this seems unfair or just wrong.
If it were a do as you wish or anything goes formula it would be much fairer.
I wonder if the Ferrari lack of performance is as much to do with their power unit as it is due to poor aerodynamics. And, if it is, does this have anything to do with with the engine controversy that was raised last year. I would love to know the terms of the secret FIA/Ferrari agreement that was made at the end of last season.
Last edited by JeremyO; 5th July 2020 at 09:19.
Well something is at the root of Ferrari's lack of speed with this car, and I hope that it's aero-related rather than anything to do with the power unit.
The team themselves have, according to Sky, described the car as "draggy", and given that Ferrari have rebuilt their wind tunnel in recent years, you have to wonder how they've managed what appears to be an own goal. For the sake of Formula 1, we need at least two or three teams challenging Mercedes, or it's going to be a very dull season.
Although no trees were harmed during the creation of this post, a large number of electrons were greatly inconvenienced.
Hamilton to the stewards, for ignoring a yellow flag, Norris could be third
And cleared.
Good show by Norris and Stroll. Good effort by Russell as well, hailing the Williams around.
Ferrari, oh dear.
Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
Friedrich Nietzsche
With or without cost caps? If it were to be without then it wouldn't be very fair at all as those with the larger budgets would only increase their performance compared to the have-nots. As it stands there's a reasonably strict rule book to adhere to, those with the deeper wallets still have the advantage however at least everyone has to work within the same design parameters. A do-as-you-want design, or at least a "looser" rule book (with common safety requirements),with a strict budget cap governing CFD/aero/R&D work has greater merit though a cap would level the field, rule book rethink or not.
As for the Pink Mercedes; as has already been said, the fact that the car uses the back end of the actual Mercedes will influence the entire race car. Racing Point have been pumped full of cash in the last year or two and those investors probably wouldn't mind seeing what they're getting for their money sooner rather than later as this will, in turn, increase the desirability to other investors and sponsors to jump on board. Within the C19 world we now live in and the potential for new sponsors within F1 thinning - not that anyone could have predicted this at the start of the year - this season could well see their snowball start to roll as the potential for higher earnings through points generated prize money has increased as well. Would we like to see a team form their own unique winning design philosophy? I would, however no rules are being broken and that, really, is that. I'm sure no-one at RP gives much of a tinker's cuss what others think, and you can't blame them either.
Lando Norris 4th on the grid, his highest starting position yet. An outstanding quali for the Brit, as was George Russell's. The Williams driver was more than happy with his grid position and I'd put money on him out qualifying his green Canadian teammate every race weekend, baring circumstances out of his control. Vettel could have knocked his teammate out in P2 if it wasn't for his mistake, as it was it made Ferrari look like they backed the right driver for 2021, not that many thought otherwise anyway. Kimi deserves a better race seat than that, Max was the best of the rest and Perez qualified equal 5th but starts 6th due to Albon setting their joint time before the Mexican. Oh, and Mercedes were half a second ahead of everyone else on the shortest, by time, circuit of the season.
The weather will be hotter on race day and Max is starting on mediums rather than the softs of those around him. He has been victorious at Austria before, twice in fact, once on the second row and another from the third. He won't be going down without a fight.
Edit to add - is it me or does each car appear visually meaner and keener this year to last? They do to me, perhaps the prolonged off season has jaded my memory however I swear, without looking at '19 'photos, they're all looking more detailed and trimmed.
Last edited by CardShark; 5th July 2020 at 01:12.
Watching GP2 and then the Porsche’s, overtakes are going to be at a premium in F1, maybe drivers are being over careful because of the short season or maybe it’s the track.
So Red Bull kept pushing the decision and got their way LH demoted to start 5th
That is the correct decision for breaking a safety rule.
Same situation like last year when VER lost three spots in Mexico for ignoring Yellow
Apparently that was Red Bulls complaint.
But it does mean that Norris starts third
So now it seems the stewards are seen to submit to bullying by the teams. I would have had no problem if Hamilton had been penalised on their first review but he wasn’t. To then change their decision due to Red Bull appealing that decision is in my eyes wrong.
This just opens the floodgates for future challenges.
Yet it now appears that the stewards decision isn’t final
Red Bull produced a vid from another angle showing that there was a yellow. Exactly the same as last year in Mexico.
This ^^^^^^^
Instant karma for Red Bull though
Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
Friedrich Nietzsche
There was new video released this morning which wasn’t available to the stewards yesterday. Easy and correct decision with that info.This ^^^^^^^
Instant karma for Red Bull though
No! stewards decision is final, what if it had been a football match.
This is going to open the floodgates, every time a team comes up with evidence that they think will support their arguments
Sorry I disagree. The stewards look at the info available to them at the time and a decision is made.
They are making a mockery of the sport.
Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
Friedrich Nietzsche
Well done Norris,
you have to wonder, is this track suitable for these cars if it has broken half the field
Well done McLaren and Lando Norris.
After a bleak winter and 2020 so far for McLaren, that was a tremendous race, and a result to give the team some momentum.
Cue bleating and foot stamping from the Hamilton fanboys...
Although no trees were harmed during the creation of this post, a large number of electrons were greatly inconvenienced.
I’m guessing that the stewards decision isn’t final otherwise they wouldn’t allow petitions against their decisions. Can’t recall the details but its happened before when new info arrives. It’s not like red bull made up some new evidence or held it back until this morning. All the pundits on Sky were clear it was penalty, no excuses.
RBR may be cry babies and their arrogance annoys me, but they were right.
I hadn't realised that F1 is a sport! :) I was taught that in sport, everybody starts off equal. If that was the case, they should all drive the same cars. It's more a spectacle than a sport these days. Unfortunately, a poor spectacle so I shan't be watching any more........... unless the rest of TV is sooooooo boring!
Or you have to wonder why the drivers don't drive on the track, and stay away from the jagged bits around the edges which cause car breakages?
The track is the black part, between the white lines.
Although no trees were harmed during the creation of this post, a large number of electrons were greatly inconvenienced.
The video was clear, not taking action would have been a mockery. This isn’t football, teams can act like adults. Merc and Lewis took it in their stride because they knew it was right.
You have to wonder if the cars are suitable for Formula 1 if half of them can’t finish the race.
'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.
I am so lucky only 12 days remaining of my Sky Sports package and this is one reason i cancelled it...another season of Mercedes bore fest.
Found the race finish pretty entertaining from where I was sitting.
Next week on the same track! More broken cars...?
Can’t argue with that
I know the Mercedes were supposed to be carrying an issue but I wonder, if they hadn’t tried to manage the race and let them just get on with it, would they have ended up with a one two
Just watched the highlights, and it was an interesting first race with lots to talk about.
Bottas drove the perfect race, lots of pressure on him and never made a mistake. He'll need to drive like that ever race this season if he's to have any chance at all.
Ferrari were no where, lucky 2nd place for them and Chrales did do some good moves at the end but it was only because of the satefy car they were in a position to make any moves.
Good signs from the McLarens too, boh drivers did well. Congrats to Lando on his first podium
With a poorly car, the pace of the Mercades is something else, I thought this track might suit RedBull, but the Mercades just looked to have some much spare pace. I hope RedBull can get up there, otherwise this is going to be another season of Mercades 1-2's every race weekend.
Lastly, I'd say the current best of the rest is the Racing Point, without the safety cars I think they would of been 3rd.
Decent (if late start) to the season.
Ferrari look like they have some work to do, great finish by Lando!!.
When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........
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