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Thread: Formula 1 2020

  1. #2001
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andyg View Post
    Err? On what basis have you come to that conclusion? Also you are wrong. Button beat Hamilton during their 2012 season at McLaren

    However Nico was better that Bottas, who really pushed Hamilton between 2013 to 2016, but Nico only managed to actually beat him in 2016, because of Hamiltonís DNF at Malaysia (whilst LH was leading) and then by only 5 points. Nico was a great driver, but the simply fact (and you might hate this) is that Hamilton is better and more consistent over the 40 races they had together. Which perhaps Nico understood and why he quit at the end of the season, rather than trying again at an inferior team.

    I have zero doubt that if Russell was to join Mercedes, a) Hamilton would be happy to work with Russell, b) they would be allowed to race, c) Hamilton would beat him(at least for a couple of seasons, simply because he has more experience of winning. If you have any evidence to suggest otherwise then please share.
    Why would I hate it? I'm a huge Hamilton fan. He would damage Russell in the same way he's harmed Bottas, by being on a totally different level overall. Much like Verstappen at red bull, being his teammate is not a good environment for a young driver.

    And no, I'm not wrong, you simply didn't read/understand what I posted. He's the only teammate to beat Hamilton over a season when it mattered. When button finished above him in 2011 (not 2012 as you incorrectly stated), Vettel ran away with the title, it was a one horse race. When he's been in the title race, only Rosberg has finished above him.

  2. #2002
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    Quote Originally Posted by WarrenVrs View Post
    I think the danger of that, is Hamilton damaging the career of Russell, which would the most likely outcome.

    The more time goes on, the more I respect what Nico managed to achieve. He was in danger of being steamrolled by Hamilton, but he took himself to a place that most can't in order to get the job done. It was so demanding of him that it wasn't sustainable, but he's the only teammate to beat Hamilton over a season when it really mattered.
    This; plus Rosberg was extremely fortunate (and Hamilton unfortunate) with car reliability that season. I think people underestimate the resolve needed to compete with and beat Lewis. Alonso couldnít do it. It took Rosberg 4 attempts (and some good fortune), and Bottas hasnít managed it (Yes Button finished higher in 2011, but they werenít competing for the championship).

    It would all depend on the relationship and chemistry/mindset between Lewis and George IMHO, as to who would lose and who would gain from this potential partnership.

  3. #2003
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    Quote Originally Posted by Happyal View Post
    Haha, good joke, I mean up until the safety car and Mercedes messing up the pit stops the car was easily 1 and 2. Even after messing up Russell's tires it still looked like he was going to win. Of course it's the car, Russell proves that beyond a doubt, putting a guy who has never won a single point in F1 into it, and he should of won the race with even a tiny bit of luck.

    Lets not forget too that just because the 2020 Mercedes messed up, the 2019 won and came third. The car is that dominate that the year old car wins.
    So it wasn’t the car that decided the outcome. It was the team. But yes the Mercedes is a great car and your point is what? Every WCC and WDC since the being of time has been won in a great cars. Drivers might win the odd race in a dog, but never a WDC.

    But this guy who had “never won a single point” in F1, also happens to be the same guy who won F4, F3 and GP2 championships in consecutive years. During his GP2 season he scored a record number of points (out scoring Leclerc previous record) while also beating Norris and Albon in the process, but no doubt that was just “the car” as well.

    FYI - Mick won the GP2 title this year with 215 points (including 9 podiums and 2 wins). Russell on the other hand won it with 287 points (including 11 podiums and 7 wins) in a field that included Norris and Albon. That’s real quality. Did Max win consecutive F4, F3 and GP2 titles? That would be a big fat No. he did complete in F4, and managed a creditable 3rd!! Lolz.

    But seriously, have you ever wondered why Russell went to Williams? Could it possibly be because Mercedes don’t have Junior team, unlike RBR and Ferrari. Which also explains why Max spent his first season at TR and LeClerc at Alfa. A Normal operating practice with teams and why Mick and Marzipan (; will spend next season at the back of the grid languishing in their Haas.
    Last edited by Andyg; 7th December 2020 at 12:03.

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  4. #2004
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guido-K View Post
    This; plus Rosberg was extremely fortunate (and Hamilton unfortunate) with car reliability that season. I think people underestimate the resolve needed to compete with and beat Lewis. Alonso couldnít do it. It took Rosberg 4 attempts (and some good fortune), and Bottas hasnít managed it (Yes Button finished higher in 2011, but they werenít competing for the championship).

    It would all depend on the relationship and chemistry/mindset between Lewis and George IMHO, as to who would lose and who would gain from this potential partnership.

    My bad, it was 2011. Hamilton beat Button by a couple of points in 2012.

    But my issue wasnít that. It was the assertion that Hamilton ďwould destroyĒ Russell, which I personally think is disingenuous on Russell, because it suggests he doesnít have the mental strength to complete with Hamilton or that Hamilton would go out of his way to make Russellís life difficult through whatever means available.

    If Russell was to join Mercedes next season then I personally do not believe we would see the same problems those those we saw at McLaren in 2007. Russell isnít Hamilton and Hamilton isnít Alonso, in my opinion.

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  5. #2005
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    I know what will settle this It's the car stuff. Lets make it as hard as possible and we put the guy who is last in the WDC in the best car and see how he gets on....... O' Wait that happened on Sunday and it turns out he would of won if not for a massive cock up during the pit stop. I think that proves it's the car without any doubt.

    I liked a quote I saw on a F1 forum, "Mercedes doesn't need Lewis as much as Lewis need Mercedes" Sums it up for me.

  6. #2006
    Why is it news to any self respecting and knowledgeable Formula 1 fan that the car makes a massive difference!?

    Damon Hill went from right at the back of the grid in a Brabham to winning races at Williams against multiple champion Prost as his team mate the next season.

    Alonso went from impressive but lowly performances at Minardi to winning championships at Renault.

    Jody Scheckter won the championship for Ferrari then barely scored a point in the next seasons dog of a car.

    Fittipaldi won the the title at McClaren then set up his own team with his family and didn't win a race again.

    Winning in a great car (as all champions have) doesn't make you an average driver, it's all about how dominant are you against your teammates and also other teams / drivers in the minority of races where your car isn't dominant. Winning 90% of championships in 8 seasons is confirmation of a great driver in any car as Max stated at the weekend.

    And talent is noticed and rises to the top, this is why Russell is a Mercedes test driver and clearly on this weekends performance he could be a potential future world champion.
    Last edited by watchcollector1; 7th December 2020 at 16:25.

  7. #2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by Happyal View Post
    I know what will settle this It's the car stuff. Lets make it as hard as possible and we put the guy who is last in the WDC in the best car and see how he gets on....... O' Wait that happened on Sunday and it turns out he would of won if not for a massive cock up during the pit stop. I think that proves it's the car without any doubt.

    I liked a quote I saw on a F1 forum, "Mercedes doesn't need Lewis as much as Lewis need Mercedes" Sums it up for me.
    The flip side of the coin is that it shows just how poor the Williams car is and how good a driver Russel is.

    He was clearly better than Bottas whoís been in the car for three seasons!

  8. #2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave+63 View Post
    The flip side of the coin is that it shows just how poor the Williams car is and how good a driver Russel is.

    He was clearly better than Bottas whoís been in the car for three seasons!
    Put any driver in the current Mercedes and they too will win, just to prove my point, Bottas has 9 wins.


  9. #2009
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    Quote Originally Posted by Happyal View Post
    I know what will settle this It's the car stuff. Lets make it as hard as possible and we put the guy who is last in the WDC in the best car and see how he gets on....... O' Wait that happened on Sunday and it turns out he would of won if not for a massive cock up during the pit stop. I think that proves it's the car without any doubt.

    I liked a quote I saw on a F1 forum, "Mercedes doesn't need Lewis as much as Lewis need Mercedes" Sums it up for me.

    Just few flaws.

    A) You are assuming Russell is just another driver with a super licence. He isnít. But seriously, do you think Latifi would have performed at the same level as Russell? If yes, then check your Meds again.

    B) In your master plan how would you determine whether or not a driver was sandbagging his performance in order to get a better drive the following year? You wouldnít.

    C) Why would the constructors allow people they donít know, to drive their cars.

    D) Why would you want to make F1 different to ever other form of motor sports on the planet.

    I suggest you given this a bit more thought before sharing with others, because it make you look a bit of a tool.

    As for your quote (very funny BTW), donít you think LeClerc needs Ferrari (they have an academe full of drivers waiting to step in), ditto Max at RedBull. Drivers are replaceable, but that doesnít mean they are all just as good as each other does it. In fact itís stupid to think they are.

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  10. #2010
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave+63 View Post
    The flip side of the coin is that it shows just how poor the Williams car is and how good a driver Russel is.

    He was clearly better than Bottas whoís been in the car for three seasons!
    Agreed. The Williams, Alfa and Haas this season have all been very poor.

    As for Russell being better than Bottas, I would agree based on this year's performance. Russell has driven the wheels off his car especially in qualifying and was unfortunate not to score points.

    Bottas seems to be able to find pace on Saturday, but cannot maintain it on Sunday. Itís as if once he is passed then he gives up. Very little fight, especially in the last 3 races. I appreciate he has not had the best of luck, but his bad luck seems to have occurred after he lost places. He certainly never seems to have the ability to act as a tail gunner for Hamilton the way Massa did for Schumy.

    To beat Hamilton, Bottas has to operate at 101% and currently he seems to be operating at 95%. I did hope that Russell drive might have given him a kick in the pants, but as soon as he was past off the grid you could see the fight start to fade away. This takes nothing away from Hamilton, who it seems can operate at 100% every Saturday and Sunday, lap, after lap, after lap.

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  11. #2011
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    Quote Originally Posted by watchcollector1 View Post
    Why is it news to any self respecting and knowledgeable Formula 1 fan that the car makes a massive difference!?

    Damon Hill went from right at the back of the grid in a Brabham to winning races at Williams against multiple champion Prost as his team mate the next season.

    Alonso went from impressive but lowly performances at Minardi to winning championships at Renault.

    Jody Scheckter won the championship for Ferrari then barely scored a point in the next seasons dog of a car.

    Fittipaldi won the the title at McClaren then set up his own team with his family and didn't win a race again.


    Winning in a great car (as all champions have) doesn't make you an average driver, it's all about how dominant are you against your teammates and also other teams / drivers in the minority of races where your car isn't dominant. Winning 90% of championships in 8 seasons is confirmation of a great driver in any car as Max stated at the weekend.

    And talent is noticed and rises to the top, this is why Russell is a Mercedes test driver and clearly on this weekends performance he could be a potential future world champion.
    You could include James Hunt to this list. His best finish was 4th in WDC before winning and his best finish after was 5th, but he was still was a great driver, but Lauda and his Ferrari was better.

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  12. #2012
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    Quote Originally Posted by Happyal View Post
    I know what will settle this It's the car stuff. Lets make it as hard as possible and we put the guy who is last in the WDC in the best car and see how he gets on....... O' Wait that happened on Sunday and it turns out he would of won if not for a massive cock up during the pit stop. I think that proves it's the car without any doubt.

    I liked a quote I saw on a F1 forum, "Mercedes doesn't need Lewis as much as Lewis need Mercedes" Sums it up for me.
    If it's "just the car" why hasn't Bottas won the WDC? Surely he should have won 50% of the races he's driven for Mercedes?

  13. #2013
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Pointy View Post
    If it's "just the car" why hasn't Bottas won the WDC? Surely he should have won 50% of the races he's driven for Mercedes?

    Happyal will tell you that is being carefully managed by Mercedes, to ensure that Hamilton remains number 1, whilst glossing over the fact that Bottas won the first race of the season. But then he most likely think anyone could win in that car .

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    Quote Originally Posted by Happyal View Post
    I liked a quote I saw on a F1 forum, "Mercedes doesn't need Lewis as much as Lewis need Mercedes" Sums it up for me.
    I can just imagine how the Daimler board meeting went on on Monday...

    "So Lewis wants $60m, but we've already got this kid who's just as fast and costing us next to nothing. Shall we ditch the most marketable driver of all time..?

    Guys..?"

    Nah, imagine how Petronas with their estimated $75m budget would react, or Tommy Hilfiger or IWC etc? I don't think it's a stretch to say that it could cost Mercedes more then he's asking for if they were to let him go, so nothings going to change unless Lewis suddenly decides to retire.
    Last edited by Dynam0humm; 8th December 2020 at 01:17.

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    Hamilton is his own marketing hype. Hence the demand for his salary. ("I can ask what I want, because I am the GOAT"). Which is understandable after his enormous successes. But big companies like Daimler are bigger and have a different goal that reaches beyond the few years left for Hamilton. Russell is the future. You can't invest 60 million in a man who's into the final part of his career with youngsters right behind him. Russell's success certainly put pressure on Hamilton's excessive salary demand. It's the sum of a perfect car, team and driver. Take one out of the equation and replace it and... the outcome is the same.

    Hamilton has to look in his mirrors from now on. On and off track.

    Mind you, apart from Russell there's a list of drivers who would be in the same league once given a seat in the Mercedes: LeClerc, Perez, Verstappen and perhaps Schumacher in a few years time. And Mercedes is aware of that.

    Menno

  16. #2016
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    Quote Originally Posted by thieuster View Post
    Hamilton is his own marketing hype. Hence the demand for his salary. ("I can ask what I want, because I am the GOAT"). Which is understandable after his enormous successes. But big companies like Daimler are bigger and have a different goal that reaches beyond the few years left for Hamilton. Russell is the future. You can't invest 60 million in a man who's into the final part of his career with youngsters right behind him. Russell's success certainly put pressure on Hamilton's excessive salary demand. It's the sum of a perfect car, team and driver. Take one out of the equation and replace it and... the outcome is the same.

    Hamilton has to look in his mirrors from now on. On and off track.

    Mind you, apart from Russell there's a list of drivers who would be in the same league once given a seat in the Mercedes: LeClerc, Perez, Verstappen and perhaps Schumacher in a few years time. And Mercedes is aware of that.

    Menno
    Hamiltonís days are numbered but heís definitely got two or three more seasons left in him yet.

    What Russell has shown us that Hamiltonís replacement is ready and waiting in the wings but what Hamilton has which Russell is lacking is the experience of being a WDC. Heís as fast, if not still faster than Russell but with unparalleled consistency and knowledge of the car.
    Russell had a fantastic weekend but itís only one weekend, even Bottas has had a few of them.

    Once Russell gets a regular seat next to either Bottas or Hamilton, weíll see just how good he is over a full season and thatís what really counts.

    In the meantime, Mercedes wound be foolish to dump the most successful driver of all times whilst heís at the peak of his career, $60 million is relatively small change for Mercedes.

  17. #2017
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    £60m would be cheap to block him from taking a contract at either Redbull, Ferrari, or Renault.

  18. #2018
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave+63 View Post
    Hamiltonís days are numbered but heís definitely got two or three more seasons left in him yet.

    What Russell has shown us that Hamiltonís replacement is ready and waiting in the wings but what Hamilton has which Russell is lacking is the experience of being a WDC. Heís as fast, if not still faster than Russell but with unparalleled consistency and knowledge of the car.
    Russell had a fantastic weekend but itís only one weekend, even Bottas has had a few of them.

    Once Russell gets a regular seat next to either Bottas or Hamilton, weíll see just how good he is over a full season and thatís what really counts.

    In the meantime, Mercedes wound be foolish to dump the most successful driver of all times whilst heís at the peak of his career, $60 million is relatively small change for Mercedes.
    I agree that Hamiltonís days are numbered, but 2-3 years? What makes you think that? Fanigo was 46 when he won his last WDC, both Farina and Brabham were both 40, plus I would imagine driving those cars were much more physically demanding than a modern car. (Albeit the seasons were shorter).

    Personally I believe that Hamilton will continue to drive as long as he remains fit enough, for as long as he is successful, and can continue to deliver at was he considers to be ďhis levelĒ. Plus I bet he is eying getting to 10 WDCís and 125 Wins.

    The biggest risk to Hamilton, in the short term, is whether Mercedes continues in F1.

    As for the money, agreed $60m is a bit of a bargain, Ferrari were paying Schumy around the $80-90M/year around 2000-2004, plus the media attention Hamilton brings Mercedes is worth considerable more. That said I very much doubt money is/was the main motivator for either driver. They just wanted to race and win. Which perhaps explains why Schumy, Alsono and Kimi felt it necessary to return to it after then retired. Schumy was worth about $500m when he returned to racing. So itís not about the money.

    As long as the car is competitive, and Mercedes/Hamilton believes he can win, then he will continue. Its all he knows.

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  19. #2019
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    Iíd love to have a driver wildcard vote for every race.

    How good would it be to put Russell in the Red Bull this weekend and see if fast cars are hard to drive (as Christian Horner keeps saying)? It might answer a few questions about car vs talent, Albon/Gasly etc.

  20. #2020
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhilT View Post
    Iíd love to have a driver wildcard vote for every race.

    How good would it be to put Russell in the Red Bull this weekend and see if fast cars are hard to drive (as Christian Horner keeps saying)? It might answer a few questions about car vs talent, Albon/Gasly etc.
    In Russellís chat with the channel four team, he mentioned how easy the Mercedes was to drive. The caveat is that he was comparing it with the Williams.

  21. #2021
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    Quote Originally Posted by thieuster View Post
    Hamilton is his own marketing hype. Hence the demand for his salary. ("I can ask what I want, because I am the GOAT"). Which is understandable after his enormous successes. But big companies like Daimler are bigger and have a different goal that reaches beyond the few years left for Hamilton. Russell is the future. You can't invest 60 million in a man who's into the final part of his career with youngsters right behind him. Russell's success certainly put pressure on Hamilton's excessive salary demand. It's the sum of a perfect car, team and driver. Take one out of the equation and replace it and... the outcome is the same.

    Hamilton has to look in his mirrors from now on. On and off track.

    Mind you, apart from Russell there's a list of drivers who would be in the same league once given a seat in the Mercedes: LeClerc, Perez, Verstappen and perhaps Schumacher in a few years time. And Mercedes is aware of that.
    Hamilton is unique.

    No-one else on the planet is in the position of being able to be the driver with the highest number of F1 WDC titles should he win next year. It's likley to be a decade at the very least before anyone else can even approach that record.

    For the next 10-15 years every time there's a picture of the man with the most F1 WDC titles it will have the Mercedes three-pointed star in it.

    Ä60m is peanuts for that sort of publicity.

  22. #2022
    Quote Originally Posted by Andyg View Post
    I agree that Hamiltonís days are numbered, but 2-3 years? What makes you think that? Fanigo was 46 when he won his last WDC, both Farina and Brabham were both 40, plus I would imagine driving those cars were much more physically demanding than a modern car. (Albeit the seasons were shorter).
    That was a totally different era. There's no way a 46 year old could maintain the level of performance required to perform at a top level these days. The g forces and reaction times required are much much higher and there's a much greater focus on fitness and peak physical performance.

    Those drivers were heros but the approach to racing was much more amateur in those days.

  23. #2023
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    Quote Originally Posted by watchcollector1 View Post
    That was a totally different era. There's no way a 46 year old could maintain the level of performance required to perform at a top level these days. The g forces and reaction times required are much much higher and there's a much greater focus on fitness and peak physical performance.

    Those drivers were heros but the approach to racing was much more amateur in those days.
    Raikkonen is 41 & still driving & it's unlikley he has the dedication of Hamilton. At 35 Hamilton has plenty of years left if he wants to stay racing.

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    I bet Damon Hill didn't expect his contract with Williams not to be renewed...................

    That came as a surprise to all, not least of all - Damon.

    Sure - Damon was not a 7-time champion, but - it illustrates that the 'obvious' to some people............ might not happen

  25. #2025
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Pointy View Post
    Raikkonen is 41 & still driving & it's unlikley he has the dedication of Hamilton. At 33 Hamilton has plenty of years left if he wants to stay racing.
    True but I doubt Lewis could maintain the same level of performance into his 40s. Raikkonen's pace has been declining over the last few years.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave+63 View Post
    Hamiltonís days are numbered but heís definitely got two or three more seasons left in him yet.

    What Russell has shown us that Hamiltonís replacement is ready and waiting in the wings but what Hamilton has which Russell is lacking is the experience of being a WDC. Heís as fast, if not still faster than Russell but with unparalleled consistency and knowledge of the car.
    Russell had a fantastic weekend but itís only one weekend, even Bottas has had a few of them.

    Once Russell gets a regular seat next to either Bottas or Hamilton, weíll see just how good he is over a full season and thatís what really counts.

    In the meantime, Mercedes wound be foolish to dump the most successful driver of all times whilst heís at the peak of his career, $60 million is relatively small change for Mercedes.
    Absolutely.

    Those who constantly bleat on about it being mainly down to the car are missing the point you showcase. You've still got to go out there week in and week out and perform, across different tracks and different conditions. The fact that he avoids accidents, decides when to over-ride strategy, manages tyres, manages the race, etc are all part of being a World Champion. Stick Hamilton in a Red Bull and I'd still fancy him to get more points over a season than Bottas in his Mercedes, likewise Albon would have zero chance winning the WC in a Mercedes.. he hasn't just won recent championships, he has been totally dominant, controlling most of the races.

    Perez to Red Bull and Russell to Mercedes please!

  27. #2027
    Quote Originally Posted by thegreatdogwood View Post
    Absolutely.

    Those who constantly bleat on about it being mainly down to the car are missing the point you showcase. You've still got to go out there week in and week out and perform, across different tracks and different conditions. The fact that he avoids accidents, decides when to over-ride strategy, manages tyres, manages the race, etc are all part of being a World Champion. Stick Hamilton in a Red Bull and I'd still fancy him to get more points over a season than Bottas in his Mercedes, likewise Albon would have zero chance winning the WC in a Mercedes.. he hasn't just won recent championships, he has been totally dominant, controlling most of the races.

    Perez to Red Bull and Russell to Mercedes please!
    Great analysis

  28. #2028
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    Quote Originally Posted by watchcollector1 View Post
    That was a totally different era. There's no way a 46 year old could maintain the level of performance required to perform at a top level these days. The g forces and reaction times required are much much higher and there's a much greater focus on fitness and peak physical performance.

    Those drivers were heros but the approach to racing was much more amateur in those days.
    Sorry, but you donít know that. The guy who won the world Aerobatics championship in 2018 was 58, and he is pulling lots of G. Derek Bell last won at Le Mans aged 41. Floyd Mayweather is 43. I could go, but you get the gist.

    I think with the right fitness regime, diet and a bit of luck (avoiding injury/serious illness) then its very possible that exceptional drivers could still compete at a very high level in to their 40ís.

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  29. #2029
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Pointy View Post
    Hamilton is unique.

    No-one else on the planet is in the position of being able to be the driver with the highest number of F1 WDC titles should he win next year. It's likley to be a decade at the very least before anyone else can even approach that record.

    For the next 10-15 years every time there's a picture of the man with the most F1 WDC titles it will have the Mercedes three-pointed star in it.

    Ä60m is peanuts for that sort of publicity.

    Just a couple of thoughts to add to this. Mercedes only need 3 more WCC wins to become the second most successful Team in F1, overtaking Williams and McLaren. They need another 9 to match Ferrari. However perhaps just as importantly they are only 39 wins behind Ferrari to become the most successful engine manufacturer - which I imagine would be a massive milestone to achieve.

    I have little doubt that Toto, Hamilton and the rest of the team are aware of this and would view $60m as small beer to achieve it.

    As for Hamilton a few records still elude him.

    Schumy has 5 WDC on the bounce, which Hamilton could match next year whilst also beating his 7 WDC.
    Both Schumy and Vettel have the record for the most number of wins in a season (13)
    Schumy has the highest number of fastest laps at 77. This will be tricky to beat because of the change in regs.
    Vettel has the highest number of consecutive wins (9) in a season.
    Oldest winner of a GP was Fagioli, a spritely 53 (1951)
    Oldest winner of a WDC was Fanigo, at 46 (1956) driving a Maserati.

    Still lots for Hamilton and Mercedes for play for over the coming few seasons

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  30. #2030
    Master MakeColdplayHistory's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andyg View Post
    Sorry, but you don’t know that. The guy who won the world Aerobatics championship in 2018 was 58, and he is pulling lots of G. Derek Bell last won at Le Mans aged 41. Floyd Mayweather is 43. I could go, but you get the gist.

    I think with the right fitness regime, diet and a bit of luck (avoiding injury/serious illness) then its very possible that exceptional drivers could still compete at a very high level in to their 40’s.
    You might be right. LH certainly looks after himself these days with his plant-based diet. I don't have the stats to back this up but I reckon his focus and performance have increased since becoming vegan.

    (and I bet Roscoe's farts smell better too)
    Last edited by MakeColdplayHistory; 8th December 2020 at 21:55.

  31. #2031
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    Itís clear that Sergio has quite a few fans right now, however unfortunately F1 is not run by Fans, its run by businesses. Yes Sergio got a result last weekend (fortunate give the demise of MV, CLC and Mercedesís screw up) and was very unlucky the week before when he was denied a 3rd place. However if you take a helicopter view his record isnít great.

    Firstly Sergio (now 30) was a Ferrari young driver, but they ditched him at the end of his second season at Sauber. He then spend a year at McLaren, before being ditched, then to Force India. So in 10 seasons (190 starts) his best finish in the WCC prior to this year was 7th. During this time he achieved 1 win (last week), a 2nd place in Turkey (when LeClerc out braked himself) and 5, 3rds. So a total of 7 podiums in 190 races (with teams like McLaren, Force India and Racing point).

    Albon on the other hand is 24 and in his rookie season (2019) achieved 8th in the WDC, despite switching teams half way though the season. This year he has achieved 2 podiums out of his 16 starts, plus has already outscored his 2019 points total with one race to go. It might have been 3 podiums if it wasnít for his coming together wit Hamilton in race 1.

    Gasly is also 24 and in his rookie years actually beat Albon finishing 7th in WDC (Perez was 10th). In his 37 races he has also won two podiums. Including a jammy win in Italy, but also scored a 2nd place in Brazil last year.

    So if you were Steiner/Horner would you go on Sergio form over the past 7 races in 2020 or would you go with one of your academe drivers, both of whom are 6 years younger, but who also knows the team, the principles and have had experience of driving with Max.

    Personally, for the good of the team, itís academe, etc I would leave Albon where he is for next 12 races and if necessary switch him with Gasly if he doesnít perform. I certainly wouldnít be considering Sergio on his form over the past couple of months.

    Donít get me wrong I like Sergio and would love to see him continue in F1, but the only seat I see him in is Kimiís Alfa seat, at Renault as a replacement for Ocon (highly unlikely) or at Williams as the replacement for Latifi (but money talks). Not looking good.

    Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
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  32. #2032
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    Quote Originally Posted by MakeColdplayHistory View Post
    You might be right. LH certainly looks after himself these days with his plant-based diet. I don't have the stats to back this up but I reckon his focus and performance have increased since becoming vegan.
    Hamilton has steadily improved since he split with his dad (2010), and then with Nicole and Ron. However I think the biggest step change in him personally was in 2016. Firstly selecting Angela Cullen as his ďpoxy mumĒ, fitness trainer, dietitian and PA, secondly losing to Nico, which really hurt, and then getting ďthe loveĒ from Toto and Lauda. Losing that season might have really damaged him, but I think it actually made him stronger mentally, more confident in himself and much more comfortable with the team. Top dog!

    The Hamilton we see now is a much more measured, focused, rounded and mature individual than between 2007-10. He has already overachieved (when he beat Sennaís record), so to a certain extent ďcan express himselfĒ without fear of failure. Nothing to prove to anyone except himself.

    The only cloud on the horizon is the 2022 changes, but I have more confidence in Mercedes than Ferrari and Redbull (who still donít have engine). The wild cards will be McLaren/Tracing Point (Mercedes power) and Renault. Very exciting.

    Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
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  33. #2033
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andyg View Post
    Top dog!

  34. #2034
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    Andy, apples and oranges...

  35. #2035
    Very poor form, insulting her like that.

    R
    Ignorance breeds Fear. Fear breeds Hatred. Hatred breeds Ignorance. Break the chain.

  36. #2036
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    Quote Originally Posted by thieuster View Post
    Hamilton is his own marketing hype. Hence the demand for his salary. ("I can ask what I want, because I am the GOAT"). Which is understandable after his enormous successes. But big companies like Daimler are bigger and have a different goal that reaches beyond the few years left for Hamilton. Russell is the future. You can't invest 60 million in a man who's into the final part of his career with youngsters right behind him. Russell's success certainly put pressure on Hamilton's excessive salary demand. It's the sum of a perfect car, team and driver. Take one out of the equation and replace it and... the outcome is the same.

    Hamilton has to look in his mirrors from now on. On and off track.

    Mind you, apart from Russell there's a list of drivers who would be in the same league once given a seat in the Mercedes: LeClerc, Perez, Verstappen and perhaps Schumacher in a few years time. And Mercedes is aware of that.


    Menno
    When has Hamilton ever said he is a GOAT? I think you are doing a bit of projecting there. I have never heard him say anything like this in 13 years. He is however a 7 times WDC and holds the world record for number of wins and podiums.

    As for his salary, he is actually on less money than Vettel and significantly less money than Schumy was. As for Max isn’t he earning about $25m a year, which considering his lack of wins seem quite a bit. Lewis charges about $4m/per win, where as Max charges $25m. If you don’t like this comparison try it with WDC points, laps races, pole positions, podiums, and you will see Max is very expensive in real terms.

    As for your list of other drivers, true they possibly could deliver similar results (excluding Perez and Schumy Jr) as Hamilton at some point in the future, the problem is that they signed for other teams or that Mercedes don’t want them.

    Honestly it all sounds like sour grapes. Perhaps Max’s Orange Army should have a whip round to buy him a better car.
    Last edited by Andyg; 9th December 2020 at 18:59.

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  37. #2037
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    Quote Originally Posted by bobbee View Post
    Andy, apples and oranges...

    Robert, pineapple and bananas.... and your point is what?

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  38. #2038
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    Quote Originally Posted by MakeColdplayHistory View Post
    You might be right. LH certainly looks after himself these days with his plant-based diet. I don't have the stats to back this up but I reckon his focus and performance have increased since becoming vegan.

    (and I bet Roscoe's farts smell better too)
    Brussel sprouts are a veggie mind.

  39. #2039
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andyg View Post
    Robert, pineapple and bananas.... and your point is what?
    Your silly comparisons of SP and AA.

  40. #2040
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andyg View Post
    As for his salary, he is actually on less money than Vettel and significantly less money than Schumy was.
    How on earth can you possibly know anything about this ??

    Oh wait a minute.........you don't actually have any clue at all do you.

    It's surely time to wind your neck in.

  41. #2041
    Grand Master PickleB's Avatar
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    Lewis is back...link.


    And there was I hoping he'd take a drive for Williams and show us how much the driver matters rather than the car.

  42. #2042
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    Shame - was looking forward to George having another go

  43. #2043
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    Quote Originally Posted by bobbee View Post
    Your silly comparisons of SP and AA.
    Oh Iím sorry you think is silly, but themís the facts. 190 races, 3/4 teams, 1 win 7 podiums, and beaten by Albon last year. Hence it might explain why Redbull, they are backing Albon, Gasly and most likely Yuki Tsunoda. You might not like it or agree, but you are not getting the big buck to make the decision. Even if you think you know better.

    No one is doubting that Sergio has talent, but then there are shed loads of talented drivers, but itís what happens on track that actually matters, so Sergio is being replaced by a 4 times WDC who has also managed 2 2nds and a 3rd in the WDC. He has also been at two of the most successful teams in F1 and can bring lots of experience to AM/TP. They are also keeping the son the of the owner (shocker), but at 22 is actually a much better long term prospect that Sergio.

    As an aside, do you know why Albon is so wedded to Redbull. Well once upon a time a drink was invented and marketed by a chap called Chaleo Yoovidhya. He then sold 49% of his company to another chap called Dietrich Mateschitz who started a company called RedBull. Interesting eh. Well it just so happens that Yoovidhya was a Thai, and his son, who now actually owns 51% of Redbull is also Thai (and the third richest family in Thailand) Now the shocker......

    Alex Albon is a Thai.

    Now, whilst a Sergio is sponsored by Carlos Slim, it just proves that money canít buy you everything.



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  44. #2044
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    Quote Originally Posted by reggie747 View Post
    How on earth can you possibly know anything about this ??

    Oh wait a minute.........you don't actually have any clue at all do you.

    It's surely time to wind your neck in.
    Forbes, Racefan, Autosport, etc. It just takes a bit of Google Fu.

    Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
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  45. #2045
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    Quote Originally Posted by PickleB View Post
    Lewis is back...link.


    And there was I hoping he'd take a drive for Williams and show us how much the driver matters rather than the car.
    Quote Originally Posted by thegreatdogwood View Post
    Shame - was looking forward to George having another go
    Me to...... Iím kind of getting bored of Lewis.

    It would have been great to see George have another go!

  46. #2046
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andyg View Post
    Oh I’m sorry you think is silly, but them’s the facts. 190 races, 3/4 teams, 1 win 7 podiums, and beaten by Albon last year. Hence it might explain why Redbull, they are backing Albon, Gasly and most likely Yuki Tsunoda. You might not like it or agree, but you are not getting the big buck to make the decision. Even if you think you know better.

    No one is doubting that Sergio has talent, but then there are shed loads of talented drivers, but it’s what happens on track that actually matters, so Sergio is being replaced by a 4 times WDC who has also managed 2 2nds and a 3rd in the WDC. He has also been at two of the most successful teams in F1 and can bring lots of experience to AM/TP. They are also keeping the son the of the owner (shocker), but at 22 is actually a much better long term prospect that Sergio.

    As an aside, do you know why Albon is so wedded to Redbull. Well once upon a time a drink was invented and marketed by a chap called Chaleo Yoovidhya. He then sold 49% of his company to another chap called Dietrich Mateschitz who started a company called RedBull. Interesting eh. Well it just so happens that Yoovidhya was a Thai, and his son, who now actually owns 51% of Redbull is also Thai (and the third richest family in Thailand) Now the shocker......

    Alex Albon is a Thai.

    Now, whilst a Sergio is sponsored by Carlos Slim, it just proves that money can’t buy you everything.

    Deranged...I say apples and oranges, you carry on spouting nonsense that now includes another driver.
    No change there.
    Last edited by bobbee; 11th December 2020 at 08:15.

  47. #2047
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    Quote Originally Posted by bobbee View Post
    Deranged...I say apples and oranges, you carry on spouting nonsense that now includes another driver.
    No change there.

    Rather than your rather bizarre fruit related and/or personal insult posts, why donít you give us your insights into why you believe Horner should ignore his existing contracted drivers in favour of a driver who took 190 races to secure his maiden win, etc and who hiring might seriously annoy his team owner and main sponsors.

    If this is a struggle, then you can always default to a ďkeep politics out of F1Ē or ďIt the carĒ, or ďHamilton is a cockwombleĒ, etc, trope, employed by so many,

    I for one would be fascinated to hear them,

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  48. #2048
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    I think you are overusing your 'Bo**ocks-a-matic' machine Andy.

  49. #2049
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    Quote Originally Posted by bobbee View Post
    I think you are overusing your 'Bo**ocks-a-matic' machine Andy.
    I thought you might at least give us the benefit of wisdom regarding FP1 and 2, but alas not. In fact just your boring trolling, but at least true to form.

    Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
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  50. #2050
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    ...and back on ignore you go. Unimpressed by your 'spin' on driving.
    Silly of me to engage I suppose.
    Last edited by bobbee; 11th December 2020 at 20:24.

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