Or "18 backmarkers had to move over to let Hamilton past (not "passed") during the Spanish Grand Prix, to avoid penalties for ignoring blue flags and flashing blue lights".Originally Posted by Andyg
Although no trees were harmed during the creation of this post, a large number of electrons were greatly inconvenienced.
The race was that boring we are talking about the etiquette of back markers letting the leaders past. Is this really what F1 has become in 2020?
In other news trying to artificially put on any show at all, Pirelli have announced that they'll be going with the balloon tyre pressures in Monza. 26psi in the fronts, compared to 23.5psi last year (was 27psi at Silverstone mk2).
I still think that there should be a rule-change - like downhill skiing: #1 on Sunday is last one on the grid during the next week. Mercedes still holds the best papers for that, but it would give other drivers a fighting chance as well.
M
I’d love to see this, but not at Monaco. That would be a disaster.
This would just be handicapping the better teams and counter productive overall.
It is up to the other teams to up their game, not for the FIA to hobble the most efficient.
Cannot agree with mid season banning using different engine modes either.
This has been allowed for several seasons and FIA now want to ban this then it should either have been put in place at beginning of season or held over to next season. It’s really not right to introduce new regs mid way through as teams have designed their cars based on regs in place at start of season.
Last edited by JeremyO; 2nd September 2020 at 09:23.
Downside of reversed grid is that current F1 tracks are not designed for passing, and we would see a lot of sandbagging during Q. Maybe a mix, with reversed grid for Q3 only but taking the best time from Q1, 2, and 3, or no Q3 and reversed grid for first 10?
I am not convinced but it would add to the show, if not to the sport. Telling other teams to catch up is meaningless, throughout the history of F1 there has hardly ever been more than 2 or 3 teams challenging for the WCC and WDC, so in effect there will always be plenty of back markers to pass on the shorter tracks.
'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.
Rule change yes, but the technical rules. No artificial cons like reverse grid which just makes things more dangerous and qualifying a tactical game.
Weight handicap is just about the only option dúring a season. Can´t help feeling it is unfair though and punishing for having the best tech goes against what F1 téchnically is supposed to be about.
Significantly!!; shorter cars (esp. wheel base), narrower cars, narrower rubber, less wing should make cars easier to overtake and more spectacular to watch.
Development allowed during season, more parts allowed, more tyres during race weekend, more testing off season are measures to aid the ´lesser´ teams.
In MotoGP a package like that is the ´Concessions and concession points´.
Last edited by Huertecilla; 2nd September 2020 at 10:36.
BOP
Vodka in the drinks bottles, and after qualifying all the teams have to swap cars, late see how Hamilton does in a Williams.
seeing how he dealt with his Merc not being perfect at times that might be hilárious!
What about the top 6 drawing lots for the 6 grid positions (WSB? or DTM? did this for a time) nothing too drastic but might mean more overtaking, and more viewers?
There must be something we can learn from Mario Cart... how about drivers collecting tokens that allow them to chuck an exploding pineapple over their left shoulder?
Either that or the other teams could develop a car that can compete with the Merc?
20 drivers
20 cars
20 races
Drivers have to drive a different car at each race, which will mean that they each have two races with the same team.
The Drivers and Constructors Championships remain the same. So right now, Mercedes will still win the Constructors Championship, but the Drivers Championship becomes rather more meaningful.
Although no trees were harmed during the creation of this post, a large number of electrons were greatly inconvenienced.
F1 needs to decide if it is entertainment or pinnacle of automotive racing. If the former, then BoP, reverse grids, etc. works. If the latter, everyone else needs to work harder / better to catch Mercedes.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
F1 has always been about entertainment, at least in the modern ear. They have just been more subtle about how they go about things. They need to balance out the performance of the cars/engines, in the past they have done this with small tweeks to make sure one team doesn't get too far ahead, they have either banned things, stopped exploits or found other ways of balancing things out, like when Mercedes had trouble with over working their tires, the FIA allowed them a private tire test.
That's what I think needs to happen here, the powers that be need to find a way to quietly balance performance. Ross Brawn has said serval times he's against interfering with the teams, but I think even he has now come around that something needs to be done.
I had great hopes that Ross Brawn might become the ideal "poacher turned gamekeeper" and would be able to use his ties with the FIA through Jean Todt to do a rather better job of levelling the playing field than has so far been the case.
Mercedes seem to have got away with DAS for this season, as if they needed yet another advantage.
Although no trees were harmed during the creation of this post, a large number of electrons were greatly inconvenienced.
And your point is what exactly? Or are you suggesting that overtaking another car at 200mph, is easy, irrespective how cooperative the other driver makes on a track? Forgetting of course that the overtake needs to happen as quickly as possible, irrespective of where they are on track, so that time isn’t lost.
Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
Friedrich Nietzsche
They “got away with DAS” because they got confirmation it didn’t break any rules from the FIA before, during and after it was designed and tested. Nothing was hidden.
Why are you suggesting they “got away with“ anything, other than some genuine innovation and clever design? Sounds like sour grapes to me.
Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
Friedrich Nietzsche
If any other team had come up with DAS, and been allowed to use it for the season you would be crying "Cheats!" and accusing the FIA of favouritism.
But as it's Mercedes, and your darling Lewis, it's ok.
Although no trees were harmed during the creation of this post, a large number of electrons were greatly inconvenienced.
That’ll work...............................I still think the drinks bottles should be spiked
He passed them but it was not quite overtaking; they lét him by with as little as bother and as much space as possible. He basically overtook nóbody. Now don´t get yourself all worked up again; it´s no critisism on LH, just relativating yoúr worshipping of something that never happened.
Lol, and you know that be a fact do you? Just like you know that Mercedes cheated - except they haven’t have they.
As for FIA favouritism towards Mercedes (perhaps an inside job with Ross Brawn) just more speculation. All we do know about cheating and favouritism in the past couple of years, is that Ferrari was doing something a bit iffy, got caught, were told to stop doing it and their performance has dropped off a cliff. Oh the horror!
Perhaps that’s why Ferrari are still making a big deal regarding Racing Point, despite Racing Point already having been punished. Nothing to do with points and the possible loss of revenues. But whilst talking about favouritism care to explain why in 2019 Ferrari were awarded $205m and Mercedes (who won their 5th WCC) only got $177m. Can you think of another sport where 2nd place gets more money than 1st?
Last edited by Andyg; 2nd September 2020 at 22:07.
Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
Friedrich Nietzsche
.
This doesn’t have anything to do with LH simply because I think you will find that the top 3 drivers will have lapped a similar number of cars including a MV. I was simply pointing out that overtaking/lapping carries a risk.
But ask yourself why drivers were in favour of allowing lapped drivers to unlap themselves under the safety car. To promote closer racing OR to reduce the risks of having to lap them again as well as reducing the number of cars between drivers racing for points.
Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
Friedrich Nietzsche
Perhaps that will be taken seriously when it happens in any other motor sports. Endurance, GT, WRC, Touring Car, Formula E, NASCAR, Indy, karts, etc.
An alternative might be to standardise platform, aero, tyres, fuels, throttle bodies, weight, horse power, Battery sizes, etc, but they have done a lot of that already.
But how about constructors being able to share more parts with customer teams, (not Racing Point obviously) as a way of closing the gap. Plus there remains a question of how much money the teams get, especially the $73m extra payment Ferrari get for being The “long standing team“.
Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
Friedrich Nietzsche
I’m going to say told you so, it was inevitable
https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/a...J3XR6oLDn.html
It’s behind a paywall Adrian, what goes it say?
Sorry, the Williams family gone
Odd - I can see it and am certainly not paying.
“It is with a heavy heart that I am stepping away from my role with the team. I had hoped to continue my tenure long into the future and to preserve the Williams family’s legacy into the next generation,” said Claire.
I wonder if Jonathan Williams has stepped down from his role as head of Williams Heritage? That's assuming it hasn't all been sold to pay for the F1 team.
Gary
I hope it’s a positive for George Russell, recently he did say that his career is in Clare Williams hands
It's on BBC too
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/54014306
Here’s an interesting question for the hive.
Assuming F1 is going to move away from petrol in order to demonstrate it “green” credentials which power source should it use?
Ultra efficient petrol/hybrid units.
Pure Electric
Pure Hydrogen (Combustion)
Pure Hydrogen (Fuel cell)
Plug in Hybrid, hydrogen and electric (with a finite amount of charge available to the driver)
Normal Hybrid Hydrogen and electric ((with regen)
Biofuels (with or with hybrid)
Compressed air
Wind
Personally I think Hydrogen fuel cell with Hybrid, might be the way they go, but we could end up with a car the size of a house. An easier alternative could be Biofuels with Hybrids and reduce the total carbon footprint of the teams (Which is supposed to be net neutral by 2030).
Any thoughts?
Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
Friedrich Nietzsche
Ouch https://www.planetf1.com/news/merced...slower-at-spa/
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Gosh I really dislike the rule changes that come in now and again to introduce artificial competitiveness.
One of us doesn’t understand the concept of hybrid Andy, most of what you’re asking/saying makes no sense to me.Here’s an interesting question for the hive.
Assuming F1 is going to move away from petrol in order to demonstrate it “green” credentials which power source should it use?
Ultra efficient petrol/hybrid units.
Pure Electric
Pure Hydrogen (Combustion)
Pure Hydrogen (Fuel cell)
Plug in Hybrid, hydrogen and electric (with a finite amount of charge available to the driver)
Normal Hybrid Hydrogen and electric ((with regen)
Biofuels (with or with hybrid)
Compressed air
Wind
Personally I think Hydrogen fuel cell with Hybrid, might be the way they go, but we could end up with a car the size of a house. An easier alternative could be Biofuels with Hybrids and reduce the total carbon footprint of the teams (Which is supposed to be net neutral by 2030).
Any thoughts?
Could you clarify what you mean please?
Love Landos lid for Monza. Certainly different.
That ship sailed a long, long time ago (around the time that Bernie took it over). Formula 1 is a business, pure and simple. It's entirely about increasing profits/shareholder value for those involved.
There is another decision point approaching which could be life or death for F1. It has always touted itself as the pinnacle of automotive technology but soon internal combustion will no longer be contemporary or future automotive tech. So do they want to maintain that leadership, in which case they need to go all electric (cue F1 vs. FE) or fuel cell or do they decide that they are just the premier single seat racing series in which case much of the expensive tech that actually detracts from the racing can be dumped (carbon brakes I'm looking at you).
Hybrid = combustion type engine coupled to an electric motor. So for example a Hydrogen fuelled engine, coupled to an Electric motor to provide addition boost.
Last edited by Andyg; 4th September 2020 at 22:39.
Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
Friedrich Nietzsche
Watching qualifying, the Ferrari engine note sounds oddly deeper?.
When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........
Qualifying?
FP 1/2?
Correct - loosing the plot!.
When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........
Phew. I’ve been out and about today and I’m looking forward to quali to see if the party mode bans will make a difference. I thought I may have missed it.
LH has said that whilst 'party mode' is now not allowed, they have other similar engine mode's that they could employ but rely on the drivers to look after the engine by how and when they use the potential - so not switching mode, just driving 'as and when'.
When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........
Perhaps he means that the drivers will have access to a “push to pass” button during qualifying. A bit like the NOX button in Mad Max.
Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
Friedrich Nietzsche
Yep, this was the 'battery boost' option, but he also re-affirmed that it was possible they would start with a 'go mode' and keep it through the race with driver management.
When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........
I think that’s actually a good thing, but the effect may be cancelled out during the race as drivers will use it to defend as well as attack. I do however expect a few more engines grenading over the course of a race weekend or cars running out of fuel. All good fun.
Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
Friedrich Nietzsche
Why, the energy that charged the batteries wI’ll just get used elsewhere, or they will be used for longer, no more stress or strain
Last edited by adrianw; 5th September 2020 at 08:59.
Agreed. Especially when they are introduced mid season after all the design work for this seasons cars has been undertaken.
Here we go again!
We know you don’t like Hamilton bu this constant sniping is becoming a bit tedious.
Last edited by JeremyO; 5th September 2020 at 09:37.
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