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Thread: Formula 1 2020

  1. #1751
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    Quote Originally Posted by watchcollector1 View Post
    Says the asterisk poster.

    *troll
    I just scroll by his posts now and don’t rise to the bait.

  2. #1752
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    I see the asterisk champion has used his political power to get his penalty points removed.

  3. #1753
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    Quote Originally Posted by Happyal View Post
    I see the asterisk champion has used his political power to get his penalty points removed.
    Rescinded on the basis that LH was advised by the team that what he was doing was OK. So not his fault. Instead the team was fined. But irrespective of the points, LH was still penalised - by 10 seconds and a possible race win.

    Unlike CS slamming the wall or RG for destroying the bollards, which were their fault, but which did not attract any penalty. DR and AA on the other hand did get points for exceeding track limits on the same corner (again their own fault).

    So once again a total lack of consistency from the stewards.

    Interestedly the reason Mercedes wanted him to practice there, was that the surface was the same as that on the grid. Had LH performed his practice start elsewhere on the circuit (a different surface) it would have given him the wrong data.

    Perhaps it’s this level of critical thinking which makes them the best. Most of the time.

    Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
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  4. #1754
    Quote Originally Posted by jaytip View Post
    I just scroll by his posts now and don’t rise to the bait.
    He's now added to my ignore list, joining Cilla and our resident tax dodging expert from the Isle of Man.
    Last edited by watchcollector1; 28th September 2020 at 09:03.

  5. #1755
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andyg View Post
    Rescinded on the basis that LH was advised by the team that what he was doing was OK. So not his fault. Instead the team was fined. But irrespective of the points, LH was still penalised - by 10 seconds and a possible race win.

    Unlike CS slamming the wall or RG for destroying the bollards, which were their fault, but which did not attract any penalty. DR and AA on the other hand did get points for exceeding track limits on the same corner (again their own fault).

    So once again a total lack of consistency from the stewards.

    Interestedly the reason Mercedes wanted him to practice there, was that the surface was the same as that on the grid. Had LH performed his practice start elsewhere on the circuit (a different surface) it would have given him the wrong data.

    Perhaps it’s this level of critical thinking which makes them the best. Most of the time.
    Please tell me you are joking. Carlos Sainz put himself out of the race by his clumsy attempt to abide by the rules when rejoining the track. Why the hell would he get penalised for that? He’s already out of the race and as such gets no points.
    Romain Grosjean made every effort to return to the track in the required manor but it was impossible for him to do so from the position he was, carrying the speed he was.
    Ricciardo made NO attempt, and as such he was penalised. I didn’t see what Albon did or didn’t do so I can’t comment on that.

  6. #1756
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andyg View Post
    Rescinded on the basis that LH was advised by the team that what he was doing was OK. So not his fault. Instead the team was fined. But irrespective of the points, LH was still penalised - by 10 seconds and a possible race win.

    Unlike CS slamming the wall or RG for destroying the bollards, which were their fault, but which did not attract any penalty. DR and AA on the other hand did get points for exceeding track limits on the same corner (again their own fault).

    So once again a total lack of consistency from the stewards.

    Interestedly the reason Mercedes wanted him to practice there, was that the surface was the same as that on the grid. Had LH performed his practice start elsewhere on the circuit (a different surface) it would have given him the wrong data.

    Perhaps it’s this level of critical thinking which makes them the best. Most of the time.

    Om Dutch media: MV commented that the 2 point penalty was too harsh for what LH had done.

  7. #1757
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    Quote Originally Posted by thieuster View Post
    Om Dutch media: MV commented that the 2 point penalty was too harsh for what LH had done.
    Good to see that these penalty points have now been rescinded.

  8. #1758
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    Quote Originally Posted by jaytip View Post
    Please tell me you are joking. Carlos Sainz put himself out of the race by his clumsy attempt to abide by the rules when rejoining the track. Why the hell would he get penalised for that? He’s already out of the race and as such gets no points.
    Romain Grosjean made every effort to return to the track in the required manor but it was impossible for him to do so from the position he was, carrying the speed he was.
    Ricciardo made NO attempt, and as such he was penalised. I didn’t see what Albon did or didn’t do so I can’t comment on that.
    Because CS’s driving was dangerous and reckless. The fact that CS paid the ultimate prize does not change the fact he overshot turn 2, failed to manage to get around the bollards, hit the wall, which then caused him to rejoin the track in a unsafe manner (and hit his team mate in the process). But if you think that didn’t deserve any points, but DR did, then fair enough.

    As for RG, an “attempt” was made, and he failed. In fact his actions caused a virtual safety car to be deployed, yet no licence points.

    Perhaps the FIA have now decided that licence points will only be issued to drivers who commit an offence, finish the race and score points, but this still does explain why CLC didn’t get penalised for tagging LS and “causing a collision”.

    What drivers, teams and the fans want is consistency, that is all.

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  9. #1759
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    Quick question for those more knowledgeable than me on tactics. When it became known Hamilton got 10 second penalty he was in the lead with Bottas in second. Why didnt Mercedes suggest Bottas try to ‘back the pack up’ a bit to give Hamilton a better cushion when he served his penalty. Potentially as a team they could then have had a 1,2 instead of a 1,3 finish. Theres probably a good explanation out there but what is it?

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  10. #1760
    Quote Originally Posted by cinnabull View Post
    Quick question for those more knowledgeable than me on tactics. When it became known Hamilton got 10 second penalty he was in the lead with Bottas in second. Why didnt Mercedes suggest Bottas try to ‘back the pack up’ a bit to give Hamilton a better cushion when he served his penalty. Potentially as a team they could then have had a 1,2 instead of a 1,3 finish. Theres probably a good explanation out there but what is it?

    Stuart


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    Backing up the pack would've meant more cars for Lewis to overtake.

  11. #1761
    Craftsman cinnabull's Avatar
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    Yeah but surely if his gap to the pack could have been increased to more than 10 seconds would that not sort of negate the effects of the penalty. Any driver would need to overtake a certain number of cars once they pit anyway. I dont understand why they didnt do it.

    Stuart


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  12. #1762
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    Quote Originally Posted by cinnabull View Post
    Yeah but surely if his gap to the pack could have been increased to more than 10 seconds would that not sort of negate the effects of the penalty. Any driver would need to overtake a certain number of cars once they pit anyway. I dont understand why they didnt do it.

    Stuart


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    Err, because Bottas wanted to win.

  13. #1763
    Mv would have overtaken him and won the Race


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  14. #1764
    Craftsman cinnabull's Avatar
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    I know Bottas wants to win, bit if the team wants a 1,2 then they could give orders right? If Bottas held everyone up incl MV then LH would have negated the effects of the penalty imo. Anyway, doesnt matter as it didnt happen but i just wondered why merc didnt do this to get a better ‘team’ result.

    Stuart


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  15. #1765
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    Quote Originally Posted by cinnabull View Post
    I know Bottas wants to win, bit if the team wants a 1,2 then they could give orders right? If Bottas held everyone up incl MV then LH would have negated the effects of the penalty imo. Anyway, doesnt matter as it didnt happen but i just wondered why merc didnt do this to get a better ‘team’ result.

    Stuart
    How do you think the stewards/the FIA would have reacted if tactics had been deliberately used to nullify a penalty given?
    'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.

  16. #1766
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saint-Just View Post
    How do you think the stewards/the FIA would have reacted if tactics had been deliberately used to nullify a penalty given?
    I have no idea, however if the team thought there ‘may be an issue’ with Bottas car and advise him to take it easy for a bit, ......? I’m sure its been done in the past, I think I recall the commentators saying it was happening, possibly hard to prove.

    Stuart


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  17. #1767
    Mercedes have never been beaten in Russia. With the penalties applied to Hamilton, Bottas was their best chance of the win to keep the unbeaten record. Anything can happen in F1 so their lowest risk strategy was to keep VB on for the win and let Lewis do his thing to get onto the podium. The constructors championship is all but over, so a handful of points lost for 1-3 rather than 1-2 is neither here nor there.

  18. #1768
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    Quote Originally Posted by cinnabull View Post
    I have no idea, however if the team thought there ‘may be an issue’ with Bottas car and advise him to take it easy for a bit, ......? I’m sure its been done in the past, I think I recall the commentators saying it was happening, possibly hard to prove.

    Stuart


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    Maybe if they were in a championship fight, but with both championships all but won, why bother playing games that have a good chance of back firing?

  19. #1769
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    It’s been reported on social media that Mika Salo (ex Ferrari driver) and Race Steward at Sochi, actually telephoned a Finnish TV station to tell them that Lewis was going to get a 10 second penalty and 2 points added to his licence - 5 minutes BEFORE the FIA and Mercedes were informed.

    It seems that LH was penalised because he didn’t use the “Expected” area on the right hand side of pit exit after the pit exit lights (which was covered in rubber) but used the right hand side of the pit exit just before it joined the main track. Actually I think that that Mercedes spotted the lack of clarify in the notes issues by Masi and tried to exploit it.

    According to the notes “Practice starts may only be carried out on the right-hand side after the pit exit lights and, for the avoidance of doubt, this includes any time the pit exit is open for the race. Drivers must leave adequate room on their left for another driver to pass“ . So actually LH technically complied with this, except he did his starts about 400m (where the track was clean) away from were Mesi expected them to do it.

    However I believe LH was remiss of para 19.2 which states For reasons of safety and sporting equity, cars may not stop in the fast lane at any time the pit exit is open without a justifiable reason (a practice start is not considered a justifiable reason), because he did stop (try doing a practice start without stopping ) but I am not sure it was actually in the fast lane (which was on the left of the track), because at least 2 other cars passed him.

    As for licence points. It would seem that many senior drivers spoke out over the harshness of the penalty including DR, MV and SV. This, plus that the decision seems to have been made BEFORE Salo had all the information available, including the communications between LH and Bono, forcing Masi to have a rethink.

    So it would seem that the Race notes were ambiguous, especially as performing practice starts at the end of pit exit is acceptable at some circuits (Brazil being one), that “the expected practice start area” was not clearly identified, that Salo massively jumped the gun and that other drivers spoke up in LH defence.

    Having Salo as race Steward might also explain why CLC didn’t get a penalty. It’s also rather funny that Salo also managed to get disqualified from 2 races in ONE season. Classic.
    Last edited by Andyg; 29th September 2020 at 08:14.

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  20. #1770
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    Mika Salo.
    Cheers..
    Jase

  21. #1771
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    1 thing I don't get about this whole thing.

    Either the asterisk champion is a racing genius and thought he spotted a gap in the rules about pratice race starts. If that's the case, he's in the wrong and should accept the penalty points.

    Or the Mercedes teams thought they spotted the exploit and only gave that advantage to their number 1 driver, and it's a clear case of favoritism some of you are still deluding yourself doesn't exist. Poor Bottas, he won the race in spice of Mercedes.

  22. #1772
    Quote Originally Posted by Happyal View Post
    1 thing I don't get about this whole thing.

    Either the asterisk champion is a racing genius and thought he spotted a gap in the rules about pratice race starts. If that's the case, he's in the wrong and should accept the penalty points.

    Or the Mercedes teams thought they spotted the exploit and only gave that advantage to their number 1 driver, and it's a clear case of favoritism some of you are still deluding yourself doesn't exist. Poor Bottas, he won the race in spice of Mercedes.
    You really are a tedious troll 😂

  23. #1773
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    Quote Originally Posted by JasonM View Post
    Mika Salo.
    That’s the one

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  24. #1774
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    Quote Originally Posted by Happyal View Post
    1 thing I don't get about this whole thing.

    Either the asterisk champion is a racing genius and thought he spotted a gap in the rules about pratice race starts. If that's the case, he's in the wrong and should accept the penalty points.

    Or the Mercedes teams thought they spotted the exploit and only gave that advantage to their number 1 driver, and it's a clear case of favoritism some of you are still deluding yourself doesn't exist. Poor Bottas, he won the race in spice of Mercedes.

    Rather than wasting your time posting here, why not spend a bit of time doing your own investigations, see what the rules are, what actually happened (as reported) and offer your insight. Much better than usual boring, inaccurate, bigoted and biased anti Mercedes/LH tropes.

    As for finding an advantage. That’s exactly what the best do. It’s all about the sum of small gains. Clearly the practice start information wasn’t clear, otherwise why would Hamilton and Bono risk the penalty?

    But I am curious to understand why “poor Bottas won in spite of Mercedes”. What exactly did Mercedes do to handicap him? The only handicap he faced was qualifying 3rd. Which was down to him.

    Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
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  25. #1775
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    Formula 1 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by Andyg View Post
    Rather than wasting your time posting here, why not spend a bit of time doing your own investigations, see what the rules are, what actually happened (as reported) and offer your insight. Much better than usual boring, inaccurate, bigoted and biased anti Mercedes/LH tropes.

    As for finding an advantage. That’s exactly what the best do. It’s all about the sum of small gains. Clearly the practice start information wasn’t clear, otherwise why would Hamilton and Bono risk the penalty?

    But I am curious to understand why “poor Bottas won in spite of Mercedes”. What exactly did Mercedes do to handicap him? The only handicap he faced was qualifying 3rd. Which was down to him.
    Not sure qualifying 3rd is such a handicap at Sochi TBF

  26. #1776
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guido-K View Post
    Not sure qualifying 3rd is such a handicap at Sochi TBF
    Very true, but hopefully Happyal can explain what handicap he thinks VB had?

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  27. #1777
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    Not expecting this https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/a...5Sjc4V6s0.html

    Will Red Bull revert to Renault for engine supply or try to do a deal with Mercedes or Ferrari?

    Renault may be reluctant to supply given the last debacle.
    Last edited by JeremyO; 2nd October 2020 at 09:15.

  28. #1778
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    Horner would have to eat a fairly large slice of humble pie. On the other hand, he delivers.
    'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.

  29. #1779
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    I saw this and though I would share, as it would seem that CLC broke exactly the same practice start rule that LH did in Belgium, but avoided penalties/fines.

    https://the-race.com/formula-1/hamil...didnt-leclerc/

    Even stranger was that the Belgium GP Race Directors notes actually included a photo of the practice start area, something lacking from the Russian notes.

    https://www.fia.com/sites/default/files/decision-document/2020%20Belgian%20Grand%20Prix%20-%20Race%20Directors'%20Event%20Notes%20Version%203 .pdf



    What however I found even funnier was that Johnny Herbert (a race steward in Belgium), but still asked LH in the post race interview

    Q: How did that go wrong? I know there were some notes that had come out from the FIA; Michael Masi had mentioned about where you can and cannot start? Why is it you ended up so far down the end of the pit lane?

    Perhaps LH should have responded with, “I thought it was purely advisory given that CLC did the same thing at Spa and didn’t even get a warning from YOU! ”.

    In other news. Honda withdraws from F1 at the end of 2021. Looks like Redbull will either have to go Renault (again) after eating a lot of humble pie, or Ferrari, because I very much doubt Mercedes will offer them an engine.



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  30. #1780
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    Quote Originally Posted by JeremyO View Post
    Not expecting this https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/a...5Sjc4V6s0.html

    Will Red Bull revert to Renault for engine supply or try to do a deal with Mercedes or Ferrari?

    Renault may be reluctant to supply given the last debacle.
    There was talk of Renault possibly pulling out, but Honda seems right of the blue.

    Surely the FIA now has to act to equalise the engines or risk lossing Renault too.

  31. #1781
    Renault probably need a customer for their engine to make it viable to remain in F1. They appear to have decent power and reliability now, so probably good for Red Bull (and Alpha Tauri). Perhaps the writing was on the wall, hence Renault rebrand as Alpine and sell customer engines as Renault? It would definitely hurt Christian Horner to have to go cap in hand to Cyril!
    The other possibility is that in the not too distant future we have a ‘crate’ engine for all teams and they just do chassis and aero?

  32. #1782
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    Talking

    It will be a busy week for Christian Horner's therapist again this week

  33. #1783
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adge View Post
    It will be a busy week for Christian Horner's therapist again this week
    I bet Ginger must be thinking about going on tour again. Perhaps Honda decided to leave given that their biggest critic (Alonso) was returning to F1. No one needed the abuse he used to dish out

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  34. #1784
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andyg View Post
    I bet Ginger must be thinking about going on tour again. Perhaps Honda decided to leave given that their biggest critic (Alonso) was returning to F1. No one needed the abuse he used to dish out
    Fernando, was merely telling the truth.

  35. #1785
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve27752 View Post
    Fernando, was merely telling the truth.

    Quite correct, but once or twice might have sufficed. It won him no friends at McLaren or Honda. That said I very much doubt that Hondas decision was based on this

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  36. #1786
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    Not F1 but I don't know where else to put this.

    Here's one driver who shouldn't be progressing to formula racing: Tweet #1 was followed by Tweet #2.

    Jenson Button said: "Luca Corberi has just destroyed any chance he had at a racing career after his disgusting behaviour today at the FIA Karting World champs. His father owns the circuit and is seen power driving the guy into a wall, life ban for both of these idiots please."...link.

  37. #1787
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    Quote Originally Posted by PickleB View Post
    Not F1 but I don't know where else to put this.

    Here's one driver who shouldn't be progressing to formula racing: Tweet #1 was followed by Tweet #2.

    Jenson Button said: "Luca Corberi has just destroyed any chance he had at a racing career after his disgusting behaviour today at the FIA Karting World champs. His father owns the circuit and is seen power driving the guy into a wall, life ban for both of these idiots please."...link.
    Disgusting. Not sure which is worse, throwing debris at another driver of the post race punch?.
    When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........

  38. #1788
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    Quote Originally Posted by PickleB View Post
    Not F1 but I don't know where else to put this.

    Here's one driver who shouldn't be progressing to formula racing: Tweet #1 was followed by Tweet #2.

    Jenson Button said: "Luca Corberi has just destroyed any chance he had at a racing career after his disgusting behaviour today at the FIA Karting World champs. His father owns the circuit and is seen power driving the guy into a wall, life ban for both of these idiots please."...link.
    He's quit racing.
    https://www.planetf1.com/news/corber...sgraceful-act/

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  39. #1789
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    Quote Originally Posted by WarrenVrs View Post
    He's quit racing.
    https://www.planetf1.com/news/corber...sgraceful-act/

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    Falling on his sword to save the family business? After all his father, the track owner, is in the frame as well.

  40. #1790
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    Friday practice is a total bust due to weather. Hopefully tomorrow/Sunday will be better.

    Watching Sky, it’s not weather/track conditions which are the problem, it’s a very low cloud ceiling which would prevent helicopters getting drivers to hospital in the event accident.

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  41. #1791
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    Track temp on the Ring is 16C, outside temp is 8C. Challenging facts for Pirelli and the drivers!

    Forecast for tomorrow: showers.

    Norris on the radio when he's pushed into the pit: "Can you get me some warmers? My hands are freezing!"
    Last edited by thieuster; 10th October 2020 at 11:24.

  42. #1792
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    A rather exciting qualifying with LH, VB and MV all in with a chance. Well done to VB for getting pole and a special mention to CLC for splitting the RBR’s.

    That first corner will however make the start a bit of a lottery and will the weather.

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  43. #1793
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    Rooting for semi-Dutchman Hulkenberg!

    Menno


    EDIT: driver of the day! Very well-deserved. (btw: First time since 2004 a spot on the podium for Honda on this circuit).
    Last edited by thieuster; 11th October 2020 at 14:52.

  44. #1794
    Looking forward to watching the highlights. Great win for Lewis

  45. #1795
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    Good race. The safety car with 11 laps to go added to the mix, but there was only going to be one winner. So congratulations to Lewis on equalling Schumy record. I never thought I would see it when he set it, but here we are. Lovely gesture by Mike S giving Lewis one of his dad’s old helmets. Respect!

    Unfortunately Bottas once again demonstrated his inability to withstand pressure. Give him 5 seconds down the road and he is as good as anyone, however like Vettel, put a really good driver on his tail (LH or MV) he is prone to errors. His DNF cost him points, but didn’t cost him a win.

    Driver of the day was Lewis, followed by Danny, Lando (a tad unlucky) and the Mighty Hulk.

    As for Max, good result, but I’m not sure why he can set a fastest lap right at the end, but be consistently slower than LH for lap after lap. Perhaps it’s car related (making sure the tyres are in the sweet spot, the battery is fully charged, running in clean air, etc) or whether he simply cannot maintain 99.9% performance for an entire race distance.

    No idea what going on with Albon, however a P45 is getting ever closer.

    69 points clear and hopefully another WDC in the bag.

    Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
    Friedrich Nietzsche


  46. #1796
    Grand Master thieuster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andyg View Post
    Good race. The safety car with 11 laps to go added to the mix, but there was only going to be one winner. So congratulations to Lewis on equalling Schumy record. I never thought I would see it when he set it, but here we are. Lovely gesture by Mike S giving Lewis one of his dad’s old helmets. Respect!

    Unfortunately Bottas once again demonstrated his inability to withstand pressure. Give him 5 seconds down the road and he is as good as anyone, however like Vettel, put a really good driver on his tail (LH or MV) he is prone to errors. His DNF cost him points, but didn’t cost him a win.

    Driver of the day was Lewis, followed by Danny, Lando (a tad unlucky) and the Mighty Hulk.

    As for Max, good result, but I’m not sure why he can set a fastest lap right at the end, but be consistently slower than LH for lap after lap. Perhaps it’s car related (making sure the tyres are in the sweet spot, the battery is fully charged, running in clean air, etc) or whether he simply cannot maintain 99.9% performance for an entire race distance.

    No idea what going on with Albon, however a P45 is getting ever closer.

    69 points clear and hopefully another WDC in the bag.
    Lewis driver of the day? Perhaps from your perspective. But no, it's Hulkenberg.

    https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article.driver-of-the-day-super-sub-hulkenberg-takes-the-honours-at-the-nurburgring.5kh9ZYYYTdZ4QrtAHul3ID.html


    Sipping coffee on Saturday morning in Cologne. One call and an hour later he was on the grid. Did only 10 practice laps and started this day on the final position of the field. He managed to finish 8th. How that for professionalism.

  47. #1797
    Grand Master Andyg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thieuster View Post
    Lewis driver of the day? Perhaps from your perspective. But no, it's Hulkenberg.

    https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article.driver-of-the-day-super-sub-hulkenberg-takes-the-honours-at-the-nurburgring.5kh9ZYYYTdZ4QrtAHul3ID.html


    Sipping coffee on Saturday morning in Cologne. One call and an hour later he was on the grid. Did only 10 practice laps and started this day on the final position of the field. He managed to finish 8th. How that for professionalism.

    Of course it’s my perspective 😀. His 8th place in the Racing Point is worthy of note, however his team mate managed 4th. DR managed Renaults first podium in a dogs age, MV achieved fastest lap and 2nd place and of course LH won whilst also equaling the record of Grand Prix wins.

    Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
    Friedrich Nietzsche


  48. #1798
    Master subseastu's Avatar
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    Hulk driver of the day easily. Made up something like 12 places in a car he'd driven for 4 laps the day before.

    Sent from my H8314 using Tapatalk

  49. #1799
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    Best 2 for me were Hulk (Sat call up to 8th place finish) and LeClerc (That Ferrari is a sack of s**t, yet he is still scoring points).

  50. #1800
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andyg View Post
    Of course it’s my perspective 😀. His 8th place in the Racing Point is worthy of note, however his team mate managed 4th. DR managed Renaults first podium in a dogs age, MV achieved fastest lap and 2nd place and of course LH won whilst also equaling the record of Grand Prix wins.
    I respect Lewis' huge talent - although sometimes struggle with his off track manner. However objectively the Mercedes should be winning entry race at the moment, given the other Mercedes failed to finish, then even though he won, I hardly think Lewis is driver of the day. Agree that Hulkenburg did a tremendous job given his lack of experience in that car, and the late call to drive.

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