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Thread: Formula 1 2020

  1. #951
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    Quote Originally Posted by WarrenVrs View Post
    Rear ducts were supplied on Jan 6.
    2020? Or 2019? Anyway, I have not read anything that suggests Mercedes broke any rules by supplying the CAD data they supplied, when they supplied it. The catch appears to be the rear brake duct design appearing on the 2020 car after the ruling came into force. As RP were using Mercedes-clone front brake ducts in 2019, they are now part of the RP design corpus and thus not an issue.

  2. #952
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    Quote Originally Posted by in_denial View Post
    2020? Or 2019? Anyway, I have not read anything that suggests Mercedes broke any rules by supplying the CAD data they supplied, when they supplied it. The catch appears to be the rear brake duct design appearing on the 2020 car after the ruling came into force. As RP were using Mercedes-clone front brake ducts in 2019, they are now part of the RP design corpus and thus not an issue.
    2020

    The parts transfer between Mercedes and Racing Point on Jan. 6, 2020 does not constitute a breach of the regulations worthy of censure as the parts in question were both not used and did not expand the information that had previously passed from Mercedes to Racing Point quite legitimately under the regulations in 2019. The recent change of status of the BDs as LPs further argues that censure or penalization is not appropriate on this point.

  3. #953
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    Quote Originally Posted by in_denial View Post
    As RP were using Mercedes-clone front brake ducts in 2019, they are now part of the RP design corpus and thus not an issue.
    That's not correct, you use third party parts, as long as you own or have the exclusive use, of the intellectual property. Because they are Mercedes parts, they (Mercedes) own the intellectual property so they can not be used on other cars.

  4. #954
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    Quote Originally Posted by Happyal View Post
    That's not correct, you use third party parts, as long as you own or have the exclusive use, of the intellectual property. Because they are Mercedes parts, they (Mercedes) own the intellectual property so they can not be used on other cars.
    How then do Alfa Romeo and Hass use Ferrari designed parts on their cars?

  5. #955
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    Quote Originally Posted by jaytip View Post
    How then do Alfa Romeo and Hass use Ferrari designed parts on their cars?
    I'm not sure which parts are controlled and which are allowed, but brake ducts were added to the control parts list at the end of 2019. Racing Point did say that other teams are worse offenders than themselves, so perhaps they will complain too.

  6. #956
    This is everything wrong with F1 at the moment. The key talking point (not just here!) is a brake duct... That can’t possibly qualify as entertainment on the scale F1 should be. The best thing about modern F1 is the Netflix Drive to Survive series, covering all the bickering behind the scenes - far more interesting than the racing... and it sounds better!

    I’d love to see a return to proper close racing, where bravery and skill are more important than target lap times and team orders. F1 should be the fastest, loudest, most glamorous sport on the planet. I fear it will implode in time if it can’t find its way back to being properly exciting.

  7. #957
    Quote Originally Posted by NoisyGriff View Post
    This is everything wrong with F1 at the moment. The key talking point (not just here!) is a brake duct... That can’t possibly qualify as entertainment on the scale F1 should be. The best thing about modern F1 is the Netflix Drive to Survive series, covering all the bickering behind the scenes - far more interesting than the racing... and it sounds better!

    I’d love to see a return to proper close racing, where bravery and skill are more important than target lap times and team orders. F1 should be the fastest, loudest, most glamorous sport on the planet. I fear it will implode in time if it can’t find its way back to being properly exciting.
    Actually this shows the strength of F1, in which other motorsport do fans care to that level of detail? F1 means much more to the fans than most other motosports, that is why it is so popular.

    The cars are faster and pull more G force than they ever have so when you say you want more bravery do you mean you want death and serious injury to be a bigger part of the sport again?

    Has there ever been a time when laptimes haven't been important?

    And Team Orders have never been less important in the sport. In the "good old days" team orders and no.1 driver contracts were rife.

    And there's been plenty of close racing this season so far just not enough for 1st place but there's been many times in F1 history where that has been the case.

  8. #958
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    Quote Originally Posted by NoisyGriff View Post
    This is everything wrong with F1 at the moment. The key talking point (not just here!) is a brake duct... That can’t possibly qualify as entertainment on the scale F1 should be. The best thing about modern F1 is the Netflix Drive to Survive series, covering all the bickering behind the scenes - far more interesting than the racing... and it sounds better!

    I’d love to see a return to proper close racing, where bravery and skill are more important than target lap times and team orders. F1 should be the fastest, loudest, most glamorous sport on the planet. I fear it will implode in time if it can’t find its way back to being properly exciting.
    So true and for someone who has loved watching F1 since the late 1970's i have never been so bored as i have in the last few years.

  9. #959
    Ferrari, McLaren, Renault, Williams Have all now announced their intention to appeal the decision

  10. #960
    There you go, put a proper driver in daddies car, imagine Hulk and Vettel in the same team

  11. #961
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    Quote Originally Posted by Happyal View Post
    That's not correct, you use third party parts, as long as you own or have the exclusive use, of the intellectual property. Because they are Mercedes parts, they (Mercedes) own the intellectual property so they can not be used on other cars.
    As one Dutch commentator on Dutch TV put it: "...how can something be illegal and become legal after paying a fine?"

  12. #962
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    Quote Originally Posted by watchcollector1 View Post
    In the "good old days" team orders and no.1 driver contracts were rife.
    They still are, the current top team has a clear No.1 driver backed up with team orders. Just last season Bottas was told to move over for Lewis, and they ended the season 1 and 2 in the standings.

  13. #963
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    I know people find F1 dull, but the qualifying was most excellent. Great result by Bottas (so much for the Team Orders crap), great drive by the Hulk and Danny. Red Bull were disappointing as was McLaren.

    As for Ferrari, I get the impression CLC did the best he could, but have no idea what happened to Vettel. It also begs the question what were Ferrari thinking by replacing Vettel with the second best driver in McLaren.

    The race tomorrow should be spicy as I think it will give LH the motivation needed for something special and for VB to defend, however I can see the most Of the spice happening with Danny, Nico and Max all fighting over the same bit of tarmac. I predict tears for someone plus safety cars.

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  14. #964
    Quote Originally Posted by Andyg View Post
    I know people find F1 dull, but the qualifying was most excellent. Great result by Bottas (so much for the Team Orders crap), great drive by the Hulk and Danny. Red Bull were disappointing as was McLaren.

    As for Ferrari, I get the impression CLC did the best he could, but have no idea what happened to Vettel. It also begs the question what were Ferrari thinking by replacing Vettel with the second best driver in McLaren.

    The race tomorrow should be spicy as I think it will give LH the motivation needed for something special and for VB to defend, however I can see the most Of the spice happening with Danny, Nico and Max all fighting over the same bit of tarmac. I predict tears for someone plus safety cars.
    8th and 12th, who do you think is getting all of the new bits

    Hamilton will DRS straight past

  15. #965
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    Quote Originally Posted by adrianw View Post
    8th and 12th, who do you think is getting all of the new bits

    Hamilton will DRS straight past
    I fully expet Bottos to move over for his team leader, just like last week when he should of been in the lead into the first corner, but wasn't allowed to attack.

    As for Ferrari, they are in a mess, they need to rebuild and get ready for 2022 and the new rules, but I'm not sure if the media will allow them to have 2 bad seasons. I also think the FIA over nerfed their engine, it's ruined any chance of a fight at the front.

  16. #966
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    Quote Originally Posted by thieuster View Post
    As one Dutch commentator on Dutch TV put it: "...how can something be illegal and become legal after paying a fine?"
    The FIA specifically said that the ducts are legal. They break no technical regulation. The design process for the rear ducts is the problem, hence the fine/deductions.

  17. #967
    Quote Originally Posted by Happyal View Post
    I fully expet Bottos to move over for his team leader, just like last week when he should of been in the lead into the first corner, but wasn't allowed to attack.

    As for Ferrari, they are in a mess, they need to rebuild and get ready for 2022 and the new rules, but I'm not sure if the media will allow them to have 2 bad seasons. I also think the FIA over nerfed their engine, it's ruined any chance of a fight at the front.
    Thanks, you made me laugh out loud. You are the ultimate conspiracy theorist re Mercedes

  18. #968
    Quote Originally Posted by WarrenVrs View Post
    The FIA specifically said that the ducts are legal. They break no technical regulation. The design process for the rear ducts is the problem, hence the fine/deductions.
    Then is the design process now legal after paying a fine?

  19. #969
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kingstepper View Post
    Then is the design process now legal after paying a fine?
    No, but as they've clearly pointed out, you can't go back in time. You can't unlearn and unsee what has been done.

    The part is 100% legal.

  20. #970
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    Quote Originally Posted by Happyal View Post
    They still are, the current top team has a clear No.1 driver backed up with team orders. Just last season Bottas was told to move over for Lewis, and they ended the season 1 and 2 in the standings.
    You cannot help yourself can you , but let’s see your evidence.

    Personally I think you are remembering the 2018 Russian GP, where Vettel was just 40 points behind LH and VB ((120 points behind) was asked to let LH through following a bad pit strategy. Leaving VB in front could have allowed Vettel (3rd at the time) back in, and simply taken points away from LH. Perhaps if Bottas had been closer in the WDC then Toto would have allowed them to race.

    As it was LH won the race with VB. And at the end of the season Mercedes still won the WCC despite Bottas actually finishing 5th (FIFTH) in the WDC. But if you really think Mercedes only wanted LH (there 3 times WDC) to win, then why did they allow Nico to win the WDC in 2016 by a couple of points. Makes no sense, much like many of your poisonous posts.

    But on the topic of team orders, at least VB wasn’t asked to hand his car over to another driver 
    Last edited by Andyg; 8th August 2020 at 19:48.

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  21. #971
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    Quote Originally Posted by awright101 View Post
    Thanks, you made me laugh out loud. You are the ultimate conspiracy theorist re Mercedes
    He has achieved a new level of stupid.
    Last edited by Andyg; 8th August 2020 at 21:18.

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  22. #972
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    Quote Originally Posted by thieuster View Post
    As one Dutch commentator on Dutch TV put it: "...how can something be illegal and become legal after paying a fine?"
    Perhaps if the Dutch commentator read the FIA ruling. Oddly it was legal in 2018, but then the FIA changed the rules in 2019, by adding Brake Ducts to the list of parts which cannot be shared, but RP had already gained the IP for the design of their own designed brake ducts in 2019/20. Designs which the FIA had seen in March and signed off.

    The RP Engineer offered a very good explanation on Sky which made some sense to me.

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  23. #973
    F2 another race dominated by tyres

  24. #974
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    Quote Originally Posted by Happyal View Post
    I fully expet Bottos to move over for his team leader, just like last week when he should of been in the lead into the first corner, but wasn't allowed to attack.
    Utter tosh. If Mercedes have a clear one two as you suggest they do, why then did they not tell Bottas to let Lewis through in the first race of the year knowing Lewis was getting a five second penalty. As long as Bottas stayed within five seconds of Lewis he still would have had first place and the pace of the Mercs may have meant that Lewis might have finished higher than the 5th place he did.
    I get it, you hate Mercedes, it’s quite clear in your posts, but you need to have good evidence to back up your claims but you don’t.


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  25. #975
    Quote Originally Posted by Happyal View Post
    I fully expet Bottos to move over for his team leader, just like last week when he should of been in the lead into the first corner, but wasn't allowed to attack.
    So you’re suggesting that Bottas should have kept his foot down on the tighter inside line and then run into his teammate as he drifts wide. Good plan: at best he takes out Hamilton; more likely he takes out Hamilton and destroys his own front wing. The race isn’t won in the first corner, but it can certainly be lost.

  26. #976
    Quote Originally Posted by Crapstirreral View Post
    I fully expet Bottos to move over for his team leader, just like last week when he should of been in the lead into the first corner, but wasn't allowed to attack.

    As for Ferrari, they are in a mess, they need to rebuild and get ready for 2022 and the new rules, but I'm not sure if the media will allow them to have 2 bad seasons. I also think the FIA over nerfed their engine, it's ruined any chance of a fight at the front.
    Others have already responded to your comments ref Mercedes so I'll deal with Ferrari. In short, Ferrari screwed themselves over, yes they're in a mess however it's their own doing and the FIA hasn't "over nurfed" anything. Ferrari pushed resources towards something that was (most probably) illegal when they should have been putting those same resources towards something that wasn't.

    To speak of something more positive, that was some performance by Hulkenberg. After the disappointment of last Sunday to the virtual triumph of today that's some comeback, I think he'll have a battle on his hands to keep 3rd with Verstappen behind him however there'd be few people that wouldn't like to see him on the podium. It would be a shame that an appreciative Silverstone crowd wouldn't be there to celebrate with him, however a podium finish is a podium finish regardless.

  27. #977
    Quote Originally Posted by watchcollector1 View Post
    ...

    The cars are faster and pull more G force than they ever have so when you say you want more bravery do you mean you want death and serious injury to be a bigger part of the sport again?

    Has there ever been a time when laptimes haven't been important?

    And Team Orders have never been less important in the sport. In the "good old days" team orders and no.1 driver contracts were rife.

    And there's been plenty of close racing this season so far just not enough for 1st place but there's been many times in F1 history where that has been the case.
    By bravery, I mean regularly seeing drivers push to the limit, rather than relying on tyre or pit strategy. F1 is too strategic now. Looks at F2 by comparison, where the racing is far closer and bravery is rewarded. I suspect you were being provocative for effect, but of course I don’t want to see any deaths in the sport.

    The lap times I’m talking about are target lap time, again based on a preplanned strategy. That dulls the racing for me.

    It’s telling for me that you can get all the exciting stuff into a 6 munitions highlight reel on YouTube.

    I still love the sport, but it is becoming increasingly anodyne and change is needed. Who cares what g-force the cars are generating if they are not exciting to watch racing?

  28. #978
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    Quote Originally Posted by NoisyGriff View Post
    By bravery, I mean regularly seeing drivers push to the limit, rather than relying on tyre or pit strategy. F1 is too strategic now. Looks at F2 by comparison, where the racing is far closer and bravery is rewarded. I suspect you were being provocative for effect, but of course I don’t want to see any deaths in the sport.

    The lap times I’m talking about are target lap time, again based on a preplanned strategy. That dulls the racing for me.

    It’s telling for me that you can get all the exciting stuff into a 6 munitions highlight reel on YouTube.

    I still love the sport, but it is becoming increasingly anodyne and change is needed. Who cares what g-force the cars are generating if they are not exciting to watch racing?
    What F1 needs is less downforce to allow closer racing, more fuel so they can drive flat out for the duration of the race and free choice of any spec tyres within the Pirelli stable the drivers want to use and not have to use two different grades of tyre during a race. So if they want to put a hard tyre on and go for the whole race it’s fine BUT, they need to increase the gap in lap times between tyres, just to make strategy more interesting.
    But we all know the above will never happen.

  29. #979
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    Quote Originally Posted by mjc1216 View Post
    So true and for someone who has loved watching F1 since the late 1970's i have never been so bored as i have in the last few years.
    Different viewpoint - I have been following F1 since 1974 (James Hunt and Hesketh) and I found the early noughties with Schumacher's domination the most boring period. With Vettel and Hamilton's runs, there have been other credible challengers and the TV coverage shows a lot of the midfield action. Having the leaders randomly break down as they did in the 70s/80s was frustrating rather than exciting, and hearing the reports of drivers dying every few races as I did in the 70s is something I would never want to bring back/

  30. #980
    Quote Originally Posted by jaytip View Post
    What F1 needs is less downforce to allow closer racing, more fuel so they can drive flat out for the duration of the race and free choice of any spec tyres within the Pirelli stable the drivers want to use and not have to use two different grades of tyre during a race. So if they want to put a hard tyre on and go for the whole race it’s fine BUT, they need to increase the gap in lap times between tyres, just to make strategy more interesting.
    But we all know the above will never happen.
    I’d love to see this.

  31. #981
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    Today I expect 2 races. VB leading into the first and then being stalked by LH, looking at an opportunity to pass because VB made a mistake, a possible undercut etc, or simply because LH can managed his tires. A game of chess so to speak. I cannot see LH trying to send one up the inside on the first lap so it will be strategic.

    As for the rest, a much more traditional race with drivers duking it out on track with lots of DRS and pit stop action and I fancy Danny to do well. Unfortunately I don’t see Hulk getting a podium simply because I cannot see him Physically lasting 90 minutes.

    All very exciting, contrary to the views of some folks here.

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  32. #982
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andyg View Post
    Today I expect 2 races. VB leading into the first and then being stalked by LH, looking at an opportunity to pass because VB made a mistake, a possible undercut etc, or simply because LH can managed his tires. A game of chess so to speak. I cannot see LH trying to send one up the inside on the first lap so it will be strategic.

    As for the rest, a much more traditional race with drivers duking it out on track with lots of DRS and pit stop action and I fancy Danny to do well. Unfortunately I don’t see Hulk getting a podium simply because I cannot see him Physically lasting 90 minutes.

    All very exciting, contrary to the views of some folks here.
    Yes looking forward to the race today. Should see an interesting few battles at the start and perhaps a battle for the win vs the procession last week, last lap excluded!

  33. #983
    Brilliant Formula 3 race, whoever the commentator is, he should replace shouty Croft.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Andyg View Post
    Today I expect 2 races. VB leading into the first and then being stalked by LH, looking at an opportunity to pass because VB made a mistake, a possible undercut etc, or simply because LH can managed his tires. A game of chess so to speak. I cannot see LH trying to send one up the inside on the first lap so it will be strategic.

    As for the rest, a much more traditional race with drivers duking it out on track with lots of DRS and pit stop action and I fancy Danny to do well. Unfortunately I don’t see Hulk getting a podium simply because I cannot see him Physically lasting 90 minutes.

    All very exciting, contrary to the views of some folks here.
    It’ll be push to pass

  34. #984
    Quote Originally Posted by in_denial View Post
    Different viewpoint - I have been following F1 since 1974 (James Hunt and Hesketh) and I found the early noughties with Schumacher's domination the most boring period. With Vettel and Hamilton's runs, there have been other credible challengers and the TV coverage shows a lot of the midfield action. Having the leaders randomly break down as they did in the 70s/80s was frustrating rather than exciting, and hearing the reports of drivers dying every few races as I did in the 70s is something I would never want to bring back/
    Fully agree, many see past F1 seasons in rose tinted glasses.

    It was quite common for the leader to be a minute ahead of the rest of the field in the old days or for the winner to have inherited the lead because of retirements.

    Refuelling in the 90s / 00s meant boring races with less passes on track and more in the pits. The Schumacher domination years were also so boring as he was so far ahead of the field and his team mate was only there to back him up.

    Excessive team orders and number one drivers contracts were very common in F1 in the 70's and 80's and these stifled inter team racing.

    And then there's the appalling past safety record of F1 where many great drivers were lost needlessly in horrific circumstances.


    In the past few seasons we've had the battles between Hamilton and Rosberg and then Vettel and Hamilton in the seasons where Ferrari were closer to Mercedes.

    Fans complain about the lack of overtaking (as they always have) but I've seen plenty of overtaking in the past few races.

    That's not to say modern F1 doesn't have problems that need rectifying but there are also areas where it has significantly improved on the past.

    It is deflating that Mercedes are so far ahead this season (c 1 second a lap) but it's not unusual for the top team to have that level of advantage (e.g McClaren in the mid and late 80's, William's in 92, 93, 96 and 97, Ferrari in the early to mid 2000's, Redbull in 2011 & 13).
    Last edited by watchcollector1; 9th August 2020 at 11:56.

  35. #985
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    Quote Originally Posted by jaytip View Post
    What F1 needs is less downforce to allow closer racing, more fuel so they can drive flat out for the duration of the race
    It doesn't work like that, the teams would underfuel the cars anyway to run as light as possible. They do that now and don't use the maximum fuel allowance anyway. You can't force them to use more fuel and I suspect there is no desire to do so, when trying to promote that F1 is more green/carbon neutral.

  36. #986
    Had a chat with some friends in the week about BOP, the conclusion was full reverse grid and vodka in the drinks bottles :-)

  37. #987
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    Quote Originally Posted by LukeBird View Post
    It doesn't work like that, the teams would underfuel the cars anyway to run as light as possible. They do that now and don't use the maximum fuel allowance anyway. You can't force them to use more fuel and I suspect there is no desire to do so, when trying to promote that F1 is more green/carbon neutral.
    Prior to 2019 when they increased the fuel allowance by 5KG teams were having to fuel save on all the high speed power circuits.
    You cherry picked one aspect of what I said F1 needs to make it more exciting, extra fuel on its own wouldn’t work, that’s why I suggested other things as well.
    Example, if a car decided to use the hardest compound so that they wouldn’t need to stop during the race, but that tyre is a second or so a lap slower than the next hardest compound then they are going to go as fast as they can, the last thing they would want is fuel saving.
    These are obviously just my opinions and other people will have other ideas of what they think would work.

  38. #988
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    Quote Originally Posted by jaytip View Post
    Prior to 2019 when they increased the fuel allowance by 5KG teams were having to fuel save on all the high speed power circuits.
    You cherry picked one aspect of what I said F1 needs to make it more exciting, extra fuel on its own wouldn’t work, that’s why I suggested other things as well.
    Example, if a car decided to use the hardest compound so that they wouldn’t need to stop during the race, but that tyre is a second or so a lap slower than the next hardest compound then they are going to go as fast as they can, the last thing they would want is fuel saving.
    These are obviously just my opinions and other people will have other ideas of what they think would work.

    Perhaps the only way to level the field is that the winner of a WCC automatically has to carry additional ballast in their cars for the entire following season.

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  39. #989
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    Quote Originally Posted by watchcollector1 View Post
    Fully agree, many see past F1 seasons in rose tinted glasses.

    It was quite common for the leader to be a minute ahead of the rest of the field in the old days or for the winner to have inherited the lead because of retirements.

    Refuelling in the 90s / 00s meant boring races with less passes on track and more in the pits. The Schumacher domination years were also so boring as he was so far ahead of the field and his team mate was only there to back him up.

    Excessive team orders and number one drivers contracts were very common in F1 in the 70's and 80's and these stifled inter team racing.

    And then there's the appalling past safety record of F1 where many great drivers were lost needlessly in horrific circumstances.


    In the past few seasons we've had the battles between Hamilton and Rosberg and then Vettel and Hamilton in the seasons where Ferrari were closer to Mercedes.

    Fans complain about the lack of overtaking (as they always have) but I've seen plenty of overtaking in the past few races.

    That's not to say modern F1 doesn't have problems that need rectifying but there are also areas where it has significantly improved on the past.

    It is deflating that Mercedes are so far ahead this season (c 1 second a lap) but it's not unusual for the top team to have that level of advantage (e.g McClaren in the mid and late 80's, William's in 92, 93, 96 and 97, Ferrari in the early to mid 2000's, Redbull in 2011 & 13).

    Well said.

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  40. #990
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    I would just like to congratulate the BBC Radio 5 commentary team for thinking God Save the Queen is the national Anthem of Great Britain.

    FFS!

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  41. #991
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andyg View Post
    I would just like to congratulate the BBC Radio 5 commentary team for thinking God Save the Queen is the national Anthem of Great Britain.

    FFS!
    Eh? What do you think the national anthem of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland is?

  42. #992
    Master village's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lampoc View Post
    Eh? What do you think the national anthem of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland is?
    Quote Originally Posted by Andyg View Post
    I would just like to congratulate the BBC Radio 5 commentary team for thinking God Save the Queen is the national Anthem of Great Britain.

    FFS!
    Looking forward to this.

  43. #993
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    Quote Originally Posted by village View Post
    Looking forward to this.
    Whatever the reply I'm sure he won't be wrong ;)

  44. #994
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lampoc View Post
    Eh? What do you think the national anthem of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland is?

    Isn't God Save the Queen the national anthem of the United Kingdom? Or do the proddies have their own?

  45. #995
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    Quote Originally Posted by SimonK View Post
    Isn't God Save the Queen the national anthem of the United Kingdom? Or do the proddies have their own?
    The United Kingdom comprising Great Britain & Northern Ireland.

  46. #996
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    Can Lewis make it to the end without another stop? I'm saying yes but he won't win. Bets are on!

  47. #997
    Grand Master SimonK's Avatar
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    Isn't that what Andy was getting at, that God Save the Queen is not just the national anthem of Great Britain?

  48. #998
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lampoc View Post
    Can Lewis make it to the end without another stop? I'm saying yes but he won't win. Bets are on!
    Bet lost.

  49. #999
    Craftsman
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    Time to move over Bottas, be a good No. 2

  50. #1000
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    Quote Originally Posted by Happyal View Post
    They still are, the current top team has a clear No.1 driver backed up with team orders.
    i must be psychic :D

    But isn't it so much better when they are racing for a win, much more exciting.

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