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Thread: Formula 1 2020

  1. #1901
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    Formula 1 2020

    ďThatís for all the kids out there, that dream the impossibleĒ - lovely statement

  2. #1902
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andyg View Post
    What arrogance has he shown? I thought he has been very humble over the past 3 seasons. Perhaps where you see arrogance, others see confidence, maturity and a supreme talent.
    Interesting comment. I never thought that we would agree about Max Verstappen.

  3. #1903
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andyg View Post
    What arrogance has he shown? I thought he has been very humble over the past 3 seasons. Perhaps where you see arrogance, others see confidence, maturity and a supreme talent.
    There is a fine line between arrogance and confidence. Again this is a subjective view, the way he speaks to the team over the radio would be an example. I'm not Lewis' biggest fan, but he does show humility and is respectful of the team. Again - my opinion, fully respect others will have a different view.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PhilipK View Post
    Interesting comment. I never thought that we would agree about Max Verstappen.
    Very good, but if you saw Max sulking by the bins yesterday having been beaten for pole, you might not think that.

    Max had a poor race today. This is his 5th season and 116th race. He definitely has the talent and pace, but he still doesnít have the race craft or temperament. Plus I very much he has the same level or loyalty and support from the garage that Lewis enjoys. Unless he up his games and changes his attitude, he will simply become another DR, but without the personality.

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  5. #1905
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andyg View Post
    Unless he up his games and changes his attitude, he will simply become another DR, but without the personality.
    So why did you respond to a mention of Max Verstappen by saying:
    Quote Originally Posted by Andyg View Post
    What arrogance has he shown? I thought he has been very humble over the past 3 seasons. Perhaps where you see arrogance, others see confidence, maturity and a supreme talent.

  6. #1906
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhilipK View Post
    So why did you respond to a mention of Max Verstappen by saying:
    Read the thread again. My first comment was in response to the comment made about Lewis arrogance, my second was directed to MV, because you introduced him in to the conversation.

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  7. #1907
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andyg View Post
    Read the thread again. My first comment was in response to the comment made about Lewis arrogance, my second was directed to MV, because you introduced him in to the conversation.
    The lack of comprehension is all on your part - the comment about arrogance (which you responded to) was in relation to Max Verstappen. It had nothing whatsoever to do with Lewis Hamilton.

    If you are going to participate in internet forums, you really do need to read what people have said before you rush to respond. Otherwise you look like an idiot.

  8. #1908
    Congratulations to Lewis; for most other drivers that would be a career best. For him that was one of many ... that for me, beyond the statistics, is why he is up there with the greats; Fangio, Clark, Senna, even Schumacher for all his flaws.

    Driver of the day is hard; could be any of the top three, plus the McLarens (and maybe more I forgot!)... it would have to be Vettel if it were not for the fact he's taking Perez's seat ... has to be Perez for a drive demonstrating why he should have the Red Bull seat to back up Max and keep him honest.

  9. #1909
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    Quote Originally Posted by in_denial View Post
    Congratulations to Lewis; for most other drivers that would be a career best. For him that was one of many ... that for me, beyond the statistics, is why he is up there with the greats; Fangio, Clark, Senna, even Schumacher for all his flaws.

    Driver of the day is hard; could be any of the top three, plus the McLarens (and maybe more I forgot!)... it would have to be Vettel if it were not for the fact he's taking Perez's seat ... has to be Perez for a drive demonstrating why he should have the Red Bull seat to back up Max and keep him honest.
    Agree with you here; all 3 showed experience, patience and quality.

  10. #1910
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    Fantastic drive by LH winning in a car that only the resident troll would claim was the best suited to todays conditions, just ask VB. A great way to win the WC and probably the most enjoyable race of the season for me.

  11. #1911
    Quote Originally Posted by thegreatdogwood View Post
    Fantastic drive by LH winning in a car that only the resident troll would claim was the best suited to todays conditions, just ask VB. A great way to win the WC and probably the most enjoyable race of the season for me.
    Agreed

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    The conditions definitely showed those drivers who possess the race craft and maturity to achieve the success that LR has shown.

    I might think he can be a bit irritating as an individual but I have total admiration for what heís achieved and it does seem that heís settling into himself. He showed huge humility in the post race interviews, so good on him.

  13. #1913
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    Congratulations on a fantastic race win and 7th championship for Lewis.

    Remember watching him win his first title and this now confirms him as the greatest ever F1 driver. There's no question of this in my mind that he's the best we've ever seen. I've never understood all the negativity towards him especially from those within his own country. I realise the haters are in the minority but come on, he's British, why not just celebrate that and get behind him?

    Cheers
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  14. #1914
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andyg View Post
    Read the thread again. My first comment was in response to the comment made about Lewis arrogance, my second was directed to MV, because you introduced him in to the conversation.
    Seems to be some confusion Andy, my response about arrogance was in relation to MV not LH.

  15. #1915
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhilipK View Post
    The lack of comprehension is all on your part - the comment about arrogance (which you responded to) was in relation to Max Verstappen. It had nothing whatsoever to do with Lewis Hamilton.

    If you are going to participate in internet forums, you really do need to read what people have said before you rush to respond. Otherwise you look like an idiot.
    My mistake. However my comment was directed at LH, therefore I cannot agree with you assumption I was referring to Max, who continues to behave appallingly towards his team and other drivers. Hence my comment.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by jwillans View Post
    Seems to be some confusion Andy, my response about arrogance was in relation to MV not LH.
    Got it. Thx.

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  16. #1916
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andyg View Post
    However my comment was directed at LH, therefore I cannot agree with you assumption I was referring to Max
    There was a discussion entirely about Max Verstappen, which you quoted and commented on. It was not about Lewis Hamilton. It had nothing whatsoever to do with Lewis Hamilton. It was was only ever about Max Verstappen. And yet you say that I made an "assumption" that you were referring to Max Verstappen (despite Max Verstappen being the sole driver under discussion)?!

    Just to help us all out in the future, when you participate in a discussion about any particular driver, should we "assume" that you are referring to the driver under discussion, or should we just "assume" that you are congenitally incapable of discussing any Formula 1 driver other than the cockwomble?

  17. #1917
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    Well done and congratulations to LH. Really pleased Checo got second and Vettal third. Best top 3 I could have wished for.

    Verstappen, never been convinced and his arrogance has always bugged me.

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    Last edited by gerard; 15th November 2020 at 19:26.

  18. #1918
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    Hamilton is a world class driver with a world class team behind him.

    The communication between driver and race engineer highlighted the mutual trust and depth of experience that Hamilton brings to Mercedes.

    To pit in the final few laps, based on weather forecasts or grit it out on knackered semi tyres ?

    Again, the right call was made by driver and team.

    What you think of the man should not cloud your opinion of his abilities on the track.

  19. #1919
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    Itíll really irritate some on here that Lewis continues to find success.

    The way he goes about things is maybe a little questionable, however, seeking a more diverse, equal and sustainable sport cannot be a bad thing. With his platform, he can help move towards that.

    Anyone that thinks itís ďsimply the carĒ really needs to give their head a wobble. The guy is a leader and a world class talent.

    Iím pleased for him.


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  20. #1920
    Incredible drive from Lewis; I thought the race was going to be called off and when it started I thought it would be shambolic but overall some great driving. To lap Bottas as well , I wonder how long heíll be able to last at Mercedes, must be soul destroying. Lewis went through a few years where I didnít really like him, but since heís moved to Mercedes I think heís been an excellent ambassador for the sport and sport in general. I love the fact he can fly to a fashion show, launch a clothing line, fly back and win Grand Prix either side.

    Such a shame for Lance though! He may not be the best on the grid, but heís showing he is better than some of the criticism he gets.

    Great to see Perez up there too.


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    A quote from James Allison

    Allison has worked alongside Schumacher, Alonso, Vettel and Hamilton in a 30-year career. He says: ďUseless parlour game though it is, I personally think Lewis is the finest of them.

    ďAs a racing car driver, I think heís the fastest and most likely to win any championship between the world champions Iíve been lucky enough to work with.

    ďBut itís not just that. The thing I find remarkable about him is heís as much of a carnivore as the rest of them in his dogged need to win. But heís got a line, and itís a line all the rest of us would want to admire in the way he handles himself as a sportsman and the way he interacts with us as a man. Thatís what sets him apart in my mind and why I think Iíll always have a soft spot for him

  22. #1922
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    Excellent drive by Hamilton yesterday to clinch his seventh WDC.

    I feel a little sorry for Bottas who apparently sustained damage early on which put paid to his race but I donít honestly think he could have got near Hamilton anyway.

    A lot of petulance and immaturity shown by Verstappen over the weekend, brilliant driver though he is, Iím not sure he will ever become the multiple World Champion his skill deserves.

  23. #1923
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    Quote Originally Posted by JeremyO View Post
    Excellent drive by Hamilton yesterday to clinch his seventh WDC.

    I feel a little sorry for Bottas who apparently sustained damage early on which put paid to his race but I donít honestly think he could have got near Hamilton anyway.

    A lot of petulance and immaturity shown by Verstappen over the weekend, brilliant driver though he is, Iím not sure he will ever become the multiple World Champion his skill deserves.
    I wouldn't be so sure. I think what we saw from Verstappen is not dissimilar to early Hamilton, driving the wheels off a good car that's not quite good enough. The frustration of being close, but at the same time far away from winning a title.

  24. #1924
    I thought it was interesting that Lewis said he didnít do a safety tyre pit stop at the end because of what happened to him in 2007 when he was caught out by a wet pit lane entrance and ended up in the kitty litter.

  25. #1925
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    Quote Originally Posted by WarrenVrs View Post
    I wouldn't be so sure. I think what we saw from Verstappen is not dissimilar to early Hamilton, driving the wheels off a good car that's not quite good enough. The frustration of being close, but at the same time far away from winning a title.

    I agree, however Lewis was fortunate to have the likes of Dennis and Button mentoring him before being taken under the stewardship of Toto and Nikki. Taking a punt on Mercedes and being truly part of that team/project also helps.

    Other than Horner, Iím not sure that Max has those mentors in his corner. A good start for him might be to distance himself from his father (as Lewis did in 2010), start to show the team/team mates some love and chill. Getting annoyed and frustrated will not win races, but it will lose them. Perhaps he needs someone like Alison Cullen in his life to add some context and a calming influence.

    Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
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  26. #1926
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andyg View Post
    I agree, however Lewis was fortunate to have the likes of Dennis and Button mentoring him before being taken under the stewardship of Toto and Nikki. Taking a punt on Mercedes and being truly part of that team/project also helps.

    Other than Horner, Iím not sure that Max has those mentors in his corner. A good start for him might be to distance himself from his father (as Lewis did in 2010), start to show the team/team mates some love and chill. Getting annoyed and frustrated will not win races, but it will lose them. Perhaps he needs someone like Alison Cullen in his life to add some context and a calming influence.
    I would have thought Joe Verstappen would be quite a good mentor to Max

  27. #1927
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pretzel View Post
    I would have thought Joe Verstappen would be quite a good mentor to Max
    Jos has quite a bit of history including being arrested for fracturing a blokeís skull (got a five year suspended sentence after giving the victim money). He was also accused of a bit of wife beating (not proven), but he was issued with a restraining order. He was even charged with attempted murder of his then girlfriend, but the charges were dropped after she withdrew the allegations - then then married, but divorced later.

    One suspects he might have anger management issues. Hopefully the Apple has fallen a bit further from that tree.

    ďJos the BossĒ managed to score 17 points in 7 seasons, so his son has already out performed him.

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  28. #1928
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andyg View Post
    Jos has quite a bit of history including being arrested for fracturing a blokeís skull (got a five year suspended sentence after giving the victim money). He was also accused of a bit of wife beating (not proven), but he was issued with a restraining order. He was even charged with attempted murder of his then girlfriend, but the charges were dropped after she withdrew the allegations - then then married, but divorced later.

    One suspects he might have anger management issues. Hopefully the Apple has fallen a bit further from that tree.

    ďJos the BossĒ managed to score 17 points in 7 seasons, so his son has already out performed him.

    All true about Jos. And you forgot to mention a few other cases... People who know Max tell that he's more like his mum (not the one nearly being run over by Jos!).

    Everybody is honing in on his attitude - which is fair when you consider his history, but when you read several sources, there's more to it: the car was not well-balanced. He went through his tyres much quicker than the others on the track. Normally, MV is capable of the opposite: making sure that his tyres last a great part of the race. The wear was clearly visible in a TV shot where his team boss examines the tyres that came off MV's car. Apparently, the car had a suffered from a bad set-up.

    More or less the same issue Stroll and Bottas had. The front wing properly working.

    That set-up has nothing to do with the lousy start of course.

    There's always more to it than simply shouting words along the lines of 'immature' etc. Especially when the caller has limited (or no) track experience of his own.

  29. #1929
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    Quote Originally Posted by thieuster View Post
    All true about Jos. And you forgot to mention a few other cases... People who know Max tell that he's more like his mum (not the one nearly being run over by Jos!).

    Everybody is honing in on his attitude - which is fair when you consider his history, but when you read several sources, there's more to it: the car was not well-balanced. He went through his tyres much quicker than the others on the track. Normally, MV is capable of the opposite: making sure that his tyres last a great part of the race. The wear was clearly visible in a TV shot where his team boss examines the tyres that came off MV's car. Apparently, the car had a suffered from a bad set-up.

    More or less the same issue Stroll and Bottas had. The front wing properly working.

    That set-up has nothing to do with the lousy start of course.

    There's always more to it than simply shouting words along the lines of 'immature' etc. Especially when the caller has limited (or no) track experience of his own.

    I hope he is more like his mother, but for someone with so much experience in F1, (2021 will be his 7th season) I was hoping he might have matured a little more, especially towards other drivers and his own team. As for tyre wear, some of that is down to his driving style as much as the car. Perhaps taking a bit of time to get the tires up to temp, being less aggressive and in not being in such a hurry early in the stint might help - this goes for Albon as well. Itís all very well ďsending itĒ and making the pass, but he often ď sends itĒ and then locks up or runs wide (impacting his tyres). The start yesterday was frankly comical, it was almost as if the clutch was slipping, but more likely he hadnít calibrated the bite point properly.

    Donít get me wrong, I think Max and CLC are the two of the most exciting/promising talents on the Grid along with Gasly, Norris and Russell, but they all need to calm down and learn from previous mistakes. They also need to remember to finish first, first you have to finish. This is not SIM racing, if you crash or break the car, there is no reset button. So far in his career Max has had 23 DNFs. By contrast Lewis had 14 DNFs in his first 6 seasons (including 5 in 2012) but only 22 in 13 seasons, without a single DNF in 2017, 2019 and so far 2020. Vettel, during 2010-2013, only had 5 DNFs in 4 seasons and guess what, he won. 😀

    Just my opinion.

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  30. #1930
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    On a Dutch newssite: Red Bull admits their fault: one side of MV's front wing was 7 degrees out, causing major imbalance.

    About the DNF's: does your list include the type of DNF's? I remember RIC and VER racing for Renault. That was a disastrous period with a lot of 'DNF - failed' on the scoreboard. That has nothing to do with the drivers' qualities.

    There's this expression in Dutch: 'comparing apples with pears'
    Last edited by thieuster; 17th November 2020 at 17:07.

  31. #1931
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    Quote Originally Posted by thieuster View Post
    On a Dutch newssite: Red Bull admits their fault: one side of MV's front wing was 7 degrees out, causing major imbalance.

    About the DNF's: does your list include the type of DNF's? I remember RIC and VER racing for Renault. That was a disastrous period with a lot of 'DNF - failed' on the scoreboard. That has nothing to do with the drivers' qualities.

    There's this expression in Dutch: 'comparing apples with pears'
    I havenít studied the types of DNFs, just the number of DNF. Some will of course be the result of mechanical failures, some will be the results of accidents, whether self inflected or not. The problem remains the number of them. This year has seen Max have 4 DNFs (so far) compared with Albonís 1.

    Last year MV has 2, which was the same as the combined Gasly/Albon team.

    I havenít hear that admission by Redbull, ref Maxís front spoiler in the UK press, but if true thatís very very poor quality control.

    Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
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  32. #1932
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    Grosjean is a very luck boy. For those who don’t think F1 isn’t dangerous or doesn’t carry any risk, they really need to watch Grosjean’s accident. Scary stuff
    Last edited by Andyg; 29th November 2020 at 19:08. Reason: Translated.

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  33. #1933
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andyg View Post
    Grosjean is a very very boy. For those who donít think F1 isnít dangerous or doesnít carry any risk any more, they really need to watch Grosjeanís accident. Scary stuff
    I am sure there is a universe where this can be understood without a decoder.
    'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.

  34. #1934
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andyg View Post
    Grosjean is a very luck boy. For those who donít think F1 isnít dangerous or doesnít carry any risk, they really need to watch Grosjeanís accident. Scary stuff
    Agreed.
    That was both shocking and amazing that he was able to free himself.
    Extremely lucky.

  35. #1935
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    Another rather interesting race, even after Romainís literal ďcrash and burnĒ (fortunately mostly uninjured) and Lance flipping crash (also uninjured).

    A great drive by Perez before his Mercedes PU decided to grenade, a great drive by both the McLarens (Carlos must be wondering if he is doing the right thing) a great drive by Albon, who might have saved his seat at RedBull, or certainly made it more difficult for Redbull to sack him and I think a great drive by Russell especially his defence against Vettel. Who with Chaz had a bit of a mare along with ďI have a punctureĒ Bottas.

    Max did the best he could, just as Lewis did, so no real surprise about the first two steps on the podium.


    As for Grosjean, I think the FIA need to congratulate themselves with the introduction of the halo, but at the same time have a good look at the Armco, which IMHO failed.

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  36. #1936
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saint-Just View Post
    I am sure there is a universe where this can be understood without a decoder.
    This should explain it better -



    Truly shocking and a miracle that he walked away.

  37. #1937
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    Formula 1 2020

    Thanks but not needed; the double adjective, followed by a double negative just got to me.
    'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.

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    54g impact... lucky to still be alive after just that, let alone the carnage that followed a split-second later.

    Massive respect to the marshals, medical staff, and emergency crews for knowing what they were doing (apart from the d!ckhead who ran across the track when Perez's engine let go near the end of the race

  39. #1939
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    Halo definitely saved his life, however it also almost condemned him, if the car had stopped a few inches further back the bent armco would have been over the top of the halo opening and he wouldn't have been able to get out before they got the flames out. His visor was already melting.

    I think the Armco separating was a million to one impact angle, speed etc

  40. #1940
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    Hamilton's tested positive for Covid-19, so will not be racing this weekend.

    I wonder who will Mercedes will get in to take his place?

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    Quote Originally Posted by vagabond View Post
    Hamilton's tested positive for Covid-19, so will not be racing this weekend.

    I wonder who will Mercedes will get in to take his place?
    I would like to see George Russell in the second Merc for the last two races. He is a Mercedes driver AND is managed by Toto.

  42. #1942
    Quote Originally Posted by Steve27752 View Post
    I would like to see George Russell in the second Merc for the last two races. He is a Mercedes driver AND is managed by Toto.
    That would be ace. I suspect he would lose his streak of out qualifying his team mate though, isnít here near the all time top? Definitely be worth it for him.


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  43. #1943
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeJSmith View Post
    That would be ace. I suspect he would lose his streak of out qualifying his team mate though, isnít here near the all time top? Definitely be worth it for him.


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    It would be particularly interesting if he did get into the car AND out qualified Bottas.

    I canít see either happening though.

  44. #1944
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeJSmith View Post
    That would be ace. I suspect he would lose his streak of out qualifying his team mate though, isnít here near the all time top? Definitely be worth it for him.


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    I heard it will be VanDoorne. I doubt it would be Russell simply because he is under contract to Williams.

    But it should make it interesting. An opportunity for Bottas to step up to the plate, an opportunity from Max and Albon (although I doubt the configuration of the track will suit the RBRs). Perhaps Sergio or Lance to monster around using their Mercedes. An opportunity Lando or Carlos to secure a win for McLaren (itís been a long time since they last won). Maybe even a Renault. I very much doubt it will be any of Ferrari PU cars simply because they are not quick enough.

    Or perhaps an opportunity for VanDoorne to prove that ITS JUST THE CAR!

    Itís a shame for Hamilton because now he cannot match Vettel or Schumy record for most number of wins in a season, but there is always next year.

    Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
    Friedrich Nietzsche


  45. #1945
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    Hulk has to be in with a shout. Stoffel hasn't driven F1 for 2 years iirc? Get Hulk in, podium, Goodbye.

  46. #1946
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    Quote Originally Posted by vagabond View Post
    Hamilton's tested positive for Covid-19, so will not be racing this weekend.

    I wonder who will Mercedes will get in to take his place?
    Surely they don't have to field two cars? They've already won the titles - is there any incentive to put another driver in their car?

  47. #1947
    Quote Originally Posted by blackal View Post
    Surely they don't have to field two cars? They've already won the titles - is there any incentive to put another driver in their car?
    I assume they have a contractual obligation to run two cars.

    Russell is unlikely I know, but whatís the point of Vandoorne or even Hulk getting in the car? Neither are likely to race in f1 again, Mercedes donít need the points so why not try one of your future potential drivers?


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  48. #1948
    Grand Master Andyg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WarrenVrs View Post
    Hulk has to be in with a shout. Stoffel hasn't driven F1 for 2 years iirc? Get Hulk in, podium, Goodbye.
    Stoffel hasnít, but he has been driving in Formula E (finished 2nd this year) as well as finishing 3rd at Le Mans. He is no mug, but I would rather be Russell.

    Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
    Friedrich Nietzsche


  49. #1949
    Craftsman
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    Looks like I maybe correct in suggesting Russell.

  50. #1950
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    Quote Originally Posted by amnesia View Post
    54g impact... lucky to still be alive after just that, let alone the carnage that followed a split-second later.
    I haven't seen that figure but, if correct, it's staggering he's alive and even more staggering that he remained conscious and was able to extract himself from the car. To put it in context, a modern aircraft ejection seat (rocket powered) will subject the pilot to around 15g, an older explosive seat type would subject the pilot to around 24g. Both survivable but the latter has a very high risk of injury, particularly spinal.

    Personally I believe that those who instigated and designed the halo should be justifiably proud, similarly the designers/manufacturers of the fire retardant clothing and equipment.

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