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Thread: New Ed White Speedmaster

  1. #101
    Quote Originally Posted by Flasher View Post
    .

    The 3861 is the future but it is no 321 and that is the movement so many have wanted in a Speedmaster release but until today probably thought would never happen in a all steel version.
    One thing I forgot - the 3861 does not have a column wheel

    Quote Originally Posted by Flasher View Post
    One of the articles I read today regards this release stated that the Rolex Daytona belongs with the Instagram wrist flashers, whilst the Omega Speedmaster belongs on the wrist of the watch enthusiast.
    I dunno about that - the Daytona has a very nice modern chronograph movement. I've generally disliked the standard speedmaster as being a bit boring and clunky manual winder....

  2. #102
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    I thought the 50th anniversary was expensive
    This takes it to another dimension ridiculous


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  3. #103
    Grand Master learningtofly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flasher View Post
    One of the articles I read today regards this release stated that the Rolex Daytona belongs with the Instagram wrist flashers, whilst the Omega Speedmaster belongs on the wrist of the watch enthusiast.
    Thatís nonsensical, given the quality of the Daytona and itís movement. You may as well say that about the GMT too.

  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by jameswrx View Post
    Forgetting the fauxtina thinking for a sec. If you could build that watch (like you would a car at a dealership) I would take that colour lume over bright white regardless of whether someone thinks itís fake ageing or not. Itís just a preferable colour to me and doesnít stand out all bright and white.
    Given the choice I would use the untinted green-white material. I donít know if this is the Ďnaturalí finish?


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  5. #105
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    Agree

    Quote Originally Posted by crazyp View Post
    One thing I forgot - the 3861 does not have a column wheel



    I dunno about that - the Daytona has a very nice modern chronograph movement. I've generally disliked the standard speedmaster as being a bit boring and clunky manual winder....
    Would not disagree with you CrazyP on your comments. For many I feel the Speedmaster delivered the perfect sports watch, no thrills or spills, a good back story at a accessible price point. The Daytona in many ways similar, a great movement with no thrills but has unfortunately become more about wrist flash and supposedly wealth symbol, which for many is a turn off to just too the Daytona but Rolex in general, whether rightly or wrongly.

  6. #106
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    Nice but I bit steep at £11.300. For that price i would buy 4 lovely used speedmaster

    1,moon watch
    2,sapphire sandwich
    3,frist speedy in space
    4,ck2998 blue or black

    Or

    Omega 57 Trilogy Set Ltd for a little bit more.

    What would you buy probably a Rolex

  7. #107
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    This is very nice, but the Apollo 13 Snoopy is also due this year. Will it have a 321?

    I'm also not sure the Apollo 11 50th Ann's are sold out as an AD offered me one last week...

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  8. #108
    Quote Originally Posted by learningtofly View Post
    Thatís nonsensical, given the quality of the Daytona and itís movement. You may as well say that about the GMT too.
    Or any Rolex.

  9. #109
    Grand Master learningtofly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wileeeeeey View Post
    Or any Rolex.
    Indeed, but I guess I was referring to superlative references that just happen to be in massive demand with a similar level of undersupply.

  10. #110
    Master Gavbaz's Avatar
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    Brilliant but not at that money. £4-5k over priced for me. I suppose thatís the way the watch game is going. Wonít stop me
    Wanting one however!

  11. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by chrisparker View Post
    I'm making a bold statement here but I think the price is too low. Could you imagine if Rolex spent two years recreating a Valjoux 72 movement and building them 'as new' to go in a ceramic bezel Paul Newman re-edition, with unique bracelet and packaging. Collectors would go nuts.

    This new 321 is beautiful, and the whole thing is more unique than say a Snoopy which shared movements and case with a regular Speedy and sells for much more than this piece, limited or not it's going to be hard to get, and the prices could go in to orbit.

    But that watch sells for 6 figures. The one this replicates sells for a similar price to what the new version is listed for.
    Last edited by JPCain86; 7th January 2020 at 19:52.

  12. #112
    Quote Originally Posted by JPCain86 View Post
    But that watch sells for 6 figures. The one this replicates sells for a similar price to what the new version is listed for.
    Exactly. They are selling a new Ed White for the same price as an original Ed White. Imagine Rolex doing what was said one post above and asking £150k etc for it then you have an accurate parallel.

  13. #113
    Really love the reissue - simply stunning and the perfect size. Out of my price range though!

  14. #114
    Quote Originally Posted by ryanb741 View Post
    Assuming these aren't limited to Omega Boutiques then I can use an AD friend's Friends and Family discount and get one at £6216 which is actually what I think the value is. At least I shouldn't lose money on the inevitable flip at that price

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    I think thatís a good call. I can see this going either way, but more likely a drop from RRP after initial hype/ deliveries start to satisfy early demand.

    At £6,200 itís still crazily expensive for a steel Omega Chrono. At a price above a Rolex Daytona with an arguably better movement, it just doesnít make to much sense to me.

    I do actually love the looks though!
    It's just a matter of time...

  15. #115
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    At a sensible price i.e. £5-£7k I'd have one of these in a flash to replace my standard Speedmaster

    ...but £11.3k for a manual wind steel watch? No thanks - I'd rather add a few grand and get a Daytona or spend less and grab one of several other automatic chronos I'd like in the £5k-£8k range

  16. #116
    Well I've put my name down and am looking forward to seeing it in the flesh.Unlike most L.E. Speedies that have gone before there is nothing I dislike or has held me back about the watch.Unlike most modern interpretations of classics this has a truly authentic movement.

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  17. #117
    Iíve put my name down. There is a lot to like with this watch but boy itís costly.

  18. #118
    Quote Originally Posted by JPCain86 View Post
    But that watch sells for 6 figures. The one this replicates sells for a similar price to what the new version is listed for.
    I know but I canít think of any other brand that has gone to such lengths to create a re-edition. So whilst may look like a basic speedmaster pro, it doesnít share a single part with it, and thatís the thing that will appeal to collectors.

    Iíd take this over and a vintage one any day.

  19. #119
    Quote Originally Posted by amcneill View Post
    Well I've put my name down and am looking forward to seeing it in the flesh.Unlike most L.E. Speedies that have gone before there is nothing I dislike or has held me back about the watch.Unlike most modern interpretations of classics this has a truly authentic movement.

    Sent from my E6653 using TZ-UK mobile app
    I think it has an authentic name, 321, but like most things the back story and hype don’t seem very authentic to me.

    At least the watch is a looker, the platinum version even more so.
    It's just a matter of time...

  20. #120
    Craftsman Curtis's Avatar
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    Just looks the same as all the other Speedies!

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  21. #121
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    If you think of the price as too expensive, think of it like this -

    2000 per year worldwide - that's it, for this reason there will be a huge amount of people that will want this watch with very little being dished out, talking with an AD tonight they said they would be lucky to have 5 or 6 per year in the whole group based on the production numbers (this was after I told them about the 321 EW release that they never knew about!).

    I think demand will be high and push these well above RRP.

  22. #122
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    https://youtu.be/FSMEB17X3PU

    Timeless watch channel has done a review (worth watching all the videos ....some serious shots!)!!

    13k euro.....not a chance.

  23. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Kenney View Post
    Is this a power indicator on the back? Where it goes A-R?

  24. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by lostp View Post
    Is this a power indicator on the back? Where it goes A-R?
    No, that's how you (well watch maker) does basic regulation A= advance so speed up, R = slow down

  25. #125
    Quote Originally Posted by lostp View Post
    Is this a power indicator on the back? Where it goes A-R?

    I think that stands for 'advance' 'retro' or something like that. Anyway, it's to adjust the timing.

  26. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by lostp View Post
    Is this a power indicator on the back? Where it goes A-R?
    what's the point in having glass backs to show the movement, most people haven`t got a clue how they work!

    The regulator changes the effective length of the hairspring, thus altering the rate of the watch. It runs faster when the regulator 'shortens' the spring, all basic physics.

  27. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by lostp View Post
    Is this a power indicator on the back? Where it goes A-R?
    As noted that is where the timing is advanced or retarded by the watchmaker.

  28. #128
    Quote Originally Posted by murkeywaters View Post
    If you think of the price as too expensive, think of it like this -

    2000 per year worldwide - that's it, for this reason there will be a huge amount of people that will want this watch with very little being dished out, talking with an AD tonight they said they would be lucky to have 5 or 6 per year in the whole group based on the production numbers (this was after I told them about the 321 EW release that they never knew about!).

    I think demand will be high and push these well above RRP.
    Iím not quite convinced they will ever go above RRP.
    To Joe Bloggs looking to buy an Omega it simply looks like an expensive Moonwatch.
    Some Omega limited editions such as the Rio Olympic Speedmaster were capped at 2016 units and were still available to buy a couple of years after launch- they struggled to sell 2000 in total - this EW is £11k .....they ainít gonna shift 2000 every year...

  29. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by farmkid View Post
    Iím not quite convinced they will ever go above RRP.
    To Joe Bloggs looking to buy an Omega it simply looks like an expensive Moonwatch.
    Some Omega limited editions such as the Rio Olympic Speedmaster were capped at 2016 units and were still available to buy a couple of years after launch- they struggled to sell 2000 in total - this EW is £11k .....they ainít gonna shift 2000 every year...
    This.

    Most people buying a Moonwatch will buy the 3570 as it is cheaper and the average punter doesn't care about a 321 movement. Only reason Daytona is so oversubscribed is because it has been long positioned as a true status symbol. Choice of a £4k actual watch that went on the moon first vs an £11k.tenuously linked version and the average punter is going 3570 all day long

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  30. #130

    New Ed White Speedmaster

    I agree but it will take a couple of years to satisfy collector demand before it settles down and discounts become available.

    We will only see inflated prices in the first one to two years I believe. As usual, speculators will need to get in early and shift them quickly to make any money

    And Ryan, Iíll happily stand behind you in that queue with your mate!

  31. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by 33JS View Post
    This is very nice, but the Apollo 13 Snoopy is also due this year. Will it have a 321?

    I'm also not sure the Apollo 11 50th Ann's are sold out as an AD offered me one last week...

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    Didn't know about another snoopy. I dearly want a snoopy speedie but prices are insane.

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  32. #132
    Quote Originally Posted by farmkid View Post
    Some Omega limited editions such as the Rio Olympic Speedmaster were capped at 2016 units and were still available to buy a couple of years after launch- they struggled to sell 2000 in total - this EW is £11k .....they ainít gonna shift 2000 every year...
    I think this is different though. 2000 a year is their estimate of 321 movements available. It'll appear in other watches too. So Omega have to decide how many they allocate to this Speedmaster each year, and I think they may just allocate enough to keep them desirable.

  33. #133
    Let's hope they don't go down the route that Rolex/AD'S use to sell the crown.Would sir like to buy several other watches to be considered grateful enough to put on the imaginary list! Can't see it ever being that bad though...
    Quote Originally Posted by chrisparker View Post
    I think this is different though. 2000 a year is their estimate of 321 movements available. It'll appear in other watches too. So Omega have to decide how many they allocate to this Speedmaster each year, and I think they may just allocate enough to keep them desirable.
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  34. #134
    Grand Master Saint-Just's Avatar
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    Question to the cognoscenti here: Indeed, the 321 was a good movement, and powered the original space and moon watch. But was it replaced by the 861 because the 321 was too expensive, or because the 861 made it a bit obsolete (and if so, what part was improved by the 861)?
    The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it.

  35. #135
    Quote Originally Posted by Saint-Just View Post
    Question to the cognoscenti here: Indeed, the 321 was a good movement, and powered the original space and moon watch. But was it replaced by the 861 because the 321 was too expensive, or because the 861 made it a bit obsolete (and if so, what part was improved by the 861)?
    From the internets:
    The calibre 321 is the rarest because of the Speedmaster's popularity and staying presence - the Speedy has been in production for over 55 years, but the calibre 321 was only used for about the first 11 years of the Speedmaster's career. So it's a simple numbers thing. One reason the calibre 321 may be the most desirable among enthusiasts is because this is the exact calibre that actually was used for the Apollo moonwalks; and before this, the Gemini spacewalks.

    The changes from the calibre 321 to 861 were more for the purposes of manufacturing efficiency and cost reduction, and the difference between the 861 and 1861 is that the parts are all rhodium-plated, rather than being copper-plated or bare metal. The changeover from 321 to 861 was in 1969, and the changeover from 861 to 1861 was in 1996. That's what the leading "1" numeral indicates. Along the way, there were a few minor variants produced, such as the c864 movement, which was a chronometer version of the 861, and the c1863, which is a "display back" version of the c1861. The 1863 simply replaces a couple of non-metallic parts with metal ones that give it a cleaner look, because the movement is installed into a watch case with a transparent caseback


    The cal. 321 and the cal.861. Both are Lemania movements and are handwound mechanical. The current Speedmaster Professional uses the cal. 861 (or Lemania 1873 as you wish). The first generation of Speedmaster (Professionals) used the cal. 321 (Lemania 2310) till 1968.

    "Omega launched the 27 CHRO C12 project jointly with Lemania in 1942, which led to the development of the new cal. 321 movement. The "27" in the project name referred to the movement diameter of 27mm. "CHRO" is a abbrevation for chronograph, while "C12" refers to a 12-hour timepiece. Omega was then using chronograph movements of three different diameters : 28.9mm, 33.3mm and 39mm. The company needed, however, a new 12-hour chronograph movement that was smaller and designed specifically for use in a wristwatch", source : Time Capsule page 142.

    The big difference between the cal. 321 and the cal. 861 is the use of a "schaltrad" instead of a "shuttlecam". The cal. 861 is a bit more accurate (21600A/h instead of the 18.000A/h of the Cal. 321). The big decision of Omega to use the Cal.861 in 1968 was probably the reducing in cost. The use of parts was reduced and the expensive "schaltrad" chronograph system was dropped

    The power reserve of a Cal. 321 and Cal. 861 is about 50 hours

    The main difference is one is a column wheel chronograph and one is a cam actuated chronograph
    The difference is well explained here

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/deploya...ographs/%3famp
    Last edited by RAJEN; 8th January 2020 at 12:13.

  36. #136
    Master murkeywaters's Avatar
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    The moonwalk and 321 will always be linked, but I think the appeal of the 321 is that it was the movement that was used in the space race up to the moonwalk, hence the popularity of the Ed White and earlier 2998's.
    The moonwalk was like the race is won kind of moment, which is proven by future Apollo missions having low television ratings or not even being televised (apart from the Apollo 13 accident). It was an iconic time in human history and the Speedmaster 321 was the watch that sat on the wrists of those astronauts.

  37. #137
    Grand Master Saint-Just's Avatar
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    Thanks Raj.

    I am struggling to understand the appeal, especially at that price. But then, Jaguar 'found' those leftover E-type a couple of years ago and sold them without any problems.
    The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it.

  38. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saint-Just View Post
    Thanks Raj.

    I am struggling to understand the appeal, especially at that price. But then, Jaguar 'found' those leftover E-type a couple of years ago and sold them without any problems.
    Big difference is they were original parts, imagine if Omega had found a stock of parts to build 2000 new period correct 105.003ís!

  39. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by murkeywaters View Post
    Big difference is they were original parts, imagine if Omega had found a stock of parts to build 2000 new period correct 105.003ís!
    The continuation Lightweights weren't built from original parts.
    You can live in your car but you can't drive your house.

  40. #140
    My AD has sent me a message saying Ďthey are only getting oneí

    I told him about the release and Iím first on the list, I also donít think he realises yet it is not limited.

    Either way it is strange for him to say Ďthey are only getting oneí

    They got 5 Apollo 11 for sure and he knew that and allocated them before it came in.

    For the first year or so it seems this will be quite hard to get. After that I think supply will outstrip demand.

  41. #141
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    I may be wrong but I believe the only omega proven to land on the moon is the 105.012?

  42. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rodder View Post
    I may be wrong but I believe the only omega proven to land on the moon is the 105.012?
    Lots of debate over what Buzz Aldrin was wearing as that watch was "lost in the post", remember he was the one who wore a watch on the moon first as Armstrong left his in the Moon lander..

    Last edited by murkeywaters; 8th January 2020 at 18:54.

  43. #143
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    It's a nice design, I can see the choices make sense as part of Omega's push upmarket while appealing to their history but to be honest, I'll be picking up a vintage Speedy Pro at 1/3 the price over this new one.

  44. #144
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    Well I think it's a lot of lolly £11300 but we'll shall see what collectors want to peel that money.
    Can see price killing the last limited edition model 50th as £7450 not flying out Still kicking around 6969 of them

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    Last edited by bokbok; 8th January 2020 at 19:05.

  45. #145
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    Looks lovely but far too expensive for me!

    Not keen on the ceramic bezel though, would rather have it as the original.
    Last edited by JeremyO; 9th January 2020 at 08:09.

  46. #146
    Grand Master Wallasey Runner's Avatar
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    I really like that. My original, like a lot of others was showing its 50 odd year age, but I think the new one is great. I think Omega have done a good job with that retaining a few nice touches like the DON.

  47. #147
    Quote Originally Posted by Wallasey Runner View Post
    I really like that. My original, like a lot of others was showing its 50 odd year age, but I think the new one is great. I think Omega have done a good job with that retaining a few nice touches like the DON.
    What's the big fuss about DON or dot over ninety? Never understood the fuss.Could someone explain please.

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  48. #148
    Grand Master Wallasey Runner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by amcneill View Post
    What's the big fuss about DON or dot over ninety? Never understood the fuss.Could someone explain please.

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    It was the original bezel insert that was appropriate to those watches in the 1960s, so it's a nice touch to recreate it. It's no different to vintage Rolex collectors looking for fat font inserts. People just like their watches to look how they would have looked back in the day. The values that originals attract is a different debate completely.

  49. #149
    DON bezels are pre 1970. A lot of them have been replaced with service bezels with Dot next to 90.
    So they are kind of rare.

  50. #150

    New Ed White Speedmaster

    People like fat font on bezels mainly because they look nicer than the skinny fonts, I think people like dot over 90 only because it is period correct.

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