Would not disagree with you CrazyP on your comments. For many I feel the Speedmaster delivered the perfect sports watch, no thrills or spills, a good back story at a accessible price point. The Daytona in many ways similar, a great movement with no thrills but has unfortunately become more about wrist flash and supposedly wealth symbol, which for many is a turn off to just too the Daytona but Rolex in general, whether rightly or wrongly.Originally Posted by crazyp
Nice but I bit steep at £11.300. For that price i would buy 4 lovely used speedmaster
1,moon watch
2,sapphire sandwich
3,frist speedy in space
4,ck2998 blue or black
Or
Omega 57 Trilogy Set Ltd for a little bit more.
What would you buy probably a Rolex
This is very nice, but the Apollo 13 Snoopy is also due this year. Will it have a 321?
I'm also not sure the Apollo 11 50th Ann's are sold out as an AD offered me one last week...
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Or any Rolex.
Brilliant but not at that money. £4-5k over priced for me. I suppose that’s the way the watch game is going. Won’t stop me
Wanting one however!
But that watch sells for 6 figures. The one this replicates sells for a similar price to what the new version is listed for.I'm making a bold statement here but I think the price is too low. Could you imagine if Rolex spent two years recreating a Valjoux 72 movement and building them 'as new' to go in a ceramic bezel Paul Newman re-edition, with unique bracelet and packaging. Collectors would go nuts.
This new 321 is beautiful, and the whole thing is more unique than say a Snoopy which shared movements and case with a regular Speedy and sells for much more than this piece, limited or not it's going to be hard to get, and the prices could go in to orbit.
Last edited by JPCain86; 7th January 2020 at 19:52.
Exactly. They are selling a new Ed White for the same price as an original Ed White. Imagine Rolex doing what was said one post above and asking £150k etc for it then you have an accurate parallel.
Really love the reissue - simply stunning and the perfect size. Out of my price range though!
I think that’s a good call. I can see this going either way, but more likely a drop from RRP after initial hype/ deliveries start to satisfy early demand.
At £6,200 it’s still crazily expensive for a steel Omega Chrono. At a price above a Rolex Daytona with an arguably better movement, it just doesn’t make to much sense to me.
I do actually love the looks though!
It's just a matter of time...
At a sensible price i.e. £5-£7k I'd have one of these in a flash to replace my standard Speedmaster
...but £11.3k for a manual wind steel watch? No thanks - I'd rather add a few grand and get a Daytona or spend less and grab one of several other automatic chronos I'd like in the £5k-£8k range
Well I've put my name down and am looking forward to seeing it in the flesh.Unlike most L.E. Speedies that have gone before there is nothing I dislike or has held me back about the watch.Unlike most modern interpretations of classics this has a truly authentic movement.
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I’ve put my name down. There is a lot to like with this watch but boy it’s costly.
I know but I can’t think of any other brand that has gone to such lengths to create a re-edition. So whilst may look like a basic speedmaster pro, it doesn’t share a single part with it, and that’s the thing that will appeal to collectors.
I’d take this over and a vintage one any day.
I think it has an authentic name, 321, but like most things the back story and hype don’t seem very authentic to me.
At least the watch is a looker, the platinum version even more so.
It's just a matter of time...
If you think of the price as too expensive, think of it like this -
2000 per year worldwide - that's it, for this reason there will be a huge amount of people that will want this watch with very little being dished out, talking with an AD tonight they said they would be lucky to have 5 or 6 per year in the whole group based on the production numbers (this was after I told them about the 321 EW release that they never knew about!).
I think demand will be high and push these well above RRP.
https://youtu.be/FSMEB17X3PU
Timeless watch channel has done a review (worth watching all the videos ....some serious shots!)!!
13k euro.....not a chance.
Is this a power indicator on the back? Where it goes A-R?
No, that's how you (well watch maker) does basic regulation A= advance so speed up, R = slow down
I think that stands for 'advance' 'retro' or something like that. Anyway, it's to adjust the timing.
what's the point in having glass backs to show the movement, most people haven`t got a clue how they work!
The regulator changes the effective length of the hairspring, thus altering the rate of the watch. It runs faster when the regulator 'shortens' the spring, all basic physics.
As noted that is where the timing is advanced or retarded by the watchmaker.
I’m not quite convinced they will ever go above RRP.
To Joe Bloggs looking to buy an Omega it simply looks like an expensive Moonwatch.
Some Omega limited editions such as the Rio Olympic Speedmaster were capped at 2016 units and were still available to buy a couple of years after launch- they struggled to sell 2000 in total - this EW is £11k .....they ain’t gonna shift 2000 every year...
This.
Most people buying a Moonwatch will buy the 3570 as it is cheaper and the average punter doesn't care about a 321 movement. Only reason Daytona is so oversubscribed is because it has been long positioned as a true status symbol. Choice of a £4k actual watch that went on the moon first vs an £11k.tenuously linked version and the average punter is going 3570 all day long
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I agree but it will take a couple of years to satisfy collector demand before it settles down and discounts become available.
We will only see inflated prices in the first one to two years I believe. As usual, speculators will need to get in early and shift them quickly to make any money
And Ryan, I’ll happily stand behind you in that queue with your mate!
Didn't know about another snoopy. I dearly want a snoopy speedie but prices are insane.
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I think this is different though. 2000 a year is their estimate of 321 movements available. It'll appear in other watches too. So Omega have to decide how many they allocate to this Speedmaster each year, and I think they may just allocate enough to keep them desirable.
Let's hope they don't go down the route that Rolex/AD'S use to sell the crown.Would sir like to buy several other watches to be considered grateful enough to put on the imaginary list! Can't see it ever being that bad though...Sent from my E6653 using TZ-UK mobile app
Question to the cognoscenti here: Indeed, the 321 was a good movement, and powered the original space and moon watch. But was it replaced by the 861 because the 321 was too expensive, or because the 861 made it a bit obsolete (and if so, what part was improved by the 861)?
'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.
From the internets:
The calibre 321 is the rarest because of the Speedmaster's popularity and staying presence - the Speedy has been in production for over 55 years, but the calibre 321 was only used for about the first 11 years of the Speedmaster's career. So it's a simple numbers thing. One reason the calibre 321 may be the most desirable among enthusiasts is because this is the exact calibre that actually was used for the Apollo moonwalks; and before this, the Gemini spacewalks.
The changes from the calibre 321 to 861 were more for the purposes of manufacturing efficiency and cost reduction, and the difference between the 861 and 1861 is that the parts are all rhodium-plated, rather than being copper-plated or bare metal. The changeover from 321 to 861 was in 1969, and the changeover from 861 to 1861 was in 1996. That's what the leading "1" numeral indicates. Along the way, there were a few minor variants produced, such as the c864 movement, which was a chronometer version of the 861, and the c1863, which is a "display back" version of the c1861. The 1863 simply replaces a couple of non-metallic parts with metal ones that give it a cleaner look, because the movement is installed into a watch case with a transparent caseback
The cal. 321 and the cal.861. Both are Lemania movements and are handwound mechanical. The current Speedmaster Professional uses the cal. 861 (or Lemania 1873 as you wish). The first generation of Speedmaster (Professionals) used the cal. 321 (Lemania 2310) till 1968.
"Omega launched the 27 CHRO C12 project jointly with Lemania in 1942, which led to the development of the new cal. 321 movement. The "27" in the project name referred to the movement diameter of 27mm. "CHRO" is a abbrevation for chronograph, while "C12" refers to a 12-hour timepiece. Omega was then using chronograph movements of three different diameters : 28.9mm, 33.3mm and 39mm. The company needed, however, a new 12-hour chronograph movement that was smaller and designed specifically for use in a wristwatch", source : Time Capsule page 142.
The big difference between the cal. 321 and the cal. 861 is the use of a "schaltrad" instead of a "shuttlecam". The cal. 861 is a bit more accurate (21600A/h instead of the 18.000A/h of the Cal. 321). The big decision of Omega to use the Cal.861 in 1968 was probably the reducing in cost. The use of parts was reduced and the expensive "schaltrad" chronograph system was dropped
The power reserve of a Cal. 321 and Cal. 861 is about 50 hours
The main difference is one is a column wheel chronograph and one is a cam actuated chronograph
The difference is well explained here
https://www.google.com/amp/s/deploya...ographs/%3famp
Last edited by RAJEN; 8th January 2020 at 12:13.
The moonwalk and 321 will always be linked, but I think the appeal of the 321 is that it was the movement that was used in the space race up to the moonwalk, hence the popularity of the Ed White and earlier 2998's.
The moonwalk was like the race is won kind of moment, which is proven by future Apollo missions having low television ratings or not even being televised (apart from the Apollo 13 accident). It was an iconic time in human history and the Speedmaster 321 was the watch that sat on the wrists of those astronauts.
Thanks Raj.
I am struggling to understand the appeal, especially at that price. But then, Jaguar 'found' those leftover E-type a couple of years ago and sold them without any problems.
'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.
Big difference is they were original parts, imagine if Omega had found a stock of parts to build 2000 new period correct 105.003’s!
The continuation Lightweights weren't built from original parts.
"A man of little significance"
My AD has sent me a message saying ‘they are only getting one’
I told him about the release and I’m first on the list, I also don’t think he realises yet it is not limited.
Either way it is strange for him to say ‘they are only getting one’
They got 5 Apollo 11 for sure and he knew that and allocated them before it came in.
For the first year or so it seems this will be quite hard to get. After that I think supply will outstrip demand.
I may be wrong but I believe the only omega proven to land on the moon is the 105.012?
Lots of debate over what Buzz Aldrin was wearing as that watch was "lost in the post", remember he was the one who wore a watch on the moon first as Armstrong left his in the Moon lander..
Last edited by murkeywaters; 8th January 2020 at 18:54.
It's a nice design, I can see the choices make sense as part of Omega's push upmarket while appealing to their history but to be honest, I'll be picking up a vintage Speedy Pro at 1/3 the price over this new one.
Well I think it's a lot of lolly £11300but we'll shall see what collectors want to peel that money.
Can see price killing the last limited edition model 50th as £7450 not flying out Still kicking around 6969 of them
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Last edited by bokbok; 8th January 2020 at 19:05.
Looks lovely but far too expensive for me!
Not keen on the ceramic bezel though, would rather have it as the original.
Last edited by JeremyO; 9th January 2020 at 08:09.
I really like that. My original, like a lot of others was showing its 50 odd year age, but I think the new one is great. I think Omega have done a good job with that retaining a few nice touches like the DON.
What's the big fuss about DON or dot over ninety? Never understood the fuss.Could someone explain please.
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It was the original bezel insert that was appropriate to those watches in the 1960s, so it's a nice touch to recreate it. It's no different to vintage Rolex collectors looking for fat font inserts. People just like their watches to look how they would have looked back in the day. The values that originals attract is a different debate completely.
DON bezels are pre 1970. A lot of them have been replaced with service bezels with Dot next to 90.
So they are kind of rare.
People like fat font on bezels mainly because they look nicer than the skinny fonts, I think people like dot over 90 only because it is period correct.
I like it, but as others have said, the price point is a little too high to justify for me. Would love a snoopy though, wonder what that would be priced at... hmmm
Well omega have been needing a new way to make money from the speedy and this will rake it in at the current price point.
I think it’s another clever release from Omega.
Not just quite ‘correct’ enough to make it an absolute must-have (Ceramic/Sapphire/Faux Lume), but enough to make it a definate would-like (321/Step Dial/DON Bezel).
I was thinking £6k though !
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Better come in a big box with plenty of extras for this price! Omega tend to have a good reputation these days for going that bit extra especially with speedies.
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It would want to come with extras like a speedmaster pro and a planet ocean for that price.
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