Reply With QuoteIt looks like hell.
As for the PM grabbing people’s hands who refuse to shake his what is he thinking?
What’s going on in Oz is unprecedented and horrific yet I don’t see the international response that I’d have expected. Why is that?
What’s the deal with the PM’s response? It’s unimaginable that any leader wouldn’t do everything humanly possible to protect their country.
I don’t get it.
It looks like hell.
As for the PM grabbing people’s hands who refuse to shake his what is he thinking?
Was thinking exactly the same, it seems to have been going on for ages yet as far as I am aware there has been zero international help, it’s just crazy.Originally Posted by TaketheCannoli
Isn't it a case of these things becoming the norm. In California don't they call theirs the wild fire season, like they are waiting for it and know when it will arrive.
Happens in Australia every year, though perhaps not on this scale and it is even happening in Europe and the Artic of all places. The world is getting hotter.
Not sure what the answer is, but I did sympathise with those who stayed behind to try and protect their properties.
Australia is a continent. It’s hard to appreciate due to Mercator.
But if it took 3 months to even consider sending the troops to help, why should other nations send considerable resources that will only tackle a small area when the Australian government isn’t seen as putting its own resources. All it did was to say he’d give a small indemnity to the volunteers.
Shameful
'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.
I think other world leaders are looking on and thinking thank goodness it isn’t in my backyard, yet...I am guessing, no climate scientist, but it may already be too late for Aus and possibly the rest of us. It does seem the Aus economic model is kaput, more of the same will lead to more heat and more catastrophe, maybe the aboriginals will get their place back, whether even they will be able to manage, live in the old way, maybe.
Jared Diamonds books are probably a timely read.
Last edited by Passenger; 4th January 2020 at 17:24.
It looks awful and I can’t believe so many pledged money for things like notre dame and won’t aid the Aussies in their time of need, I donated a small amount to the cause but it’s not as much as I’d like
Family in Perth told us how bad the fires really have been and it’s just devastating
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
15tons of CO2 emissions per capita for Australia compared to 4-6 in Europe.
There has been very little impetus to lower emissions and Australia is ranked very low on green initiatives.
They are 80% coal powered and like their juicy V8’s
Maybe attitudes will change but it’s probably too late for Australia
We give money where we see fit. Personally, I'd sooner help refugees who end up in Australian offshore detention camps.
A mate of mine is at home tonight, with one of the fires not far from his town, wife and kids have left, he is there tonight with other volunteers to protect their houses from embers which could be blown-in and start fires in their neighbourhood. He last posted on Facebook 14hrs ago and I’m hoping he’s managed to get some sleep and I will hear from him later today our time, early morning his. In his words from last night...
It’s f***ing hectic. All around us communities have been raized, there's a mass evacuation of tourists happening - when the highway is open that is - town's are running low on supplies - it's like f***ing doomsday the movie.
Tomorrow is going to possibly be psyhco. The main fire tracked past us a while ago leaving a big area of bush untouched all around us. The forecast is for around 40 degrees with strong NW winds that are going to blow it straight at us, then late in the afternoon there will be a big southerly blast that will blow it back. We're basically the net in a firey game of tennis, if what we fear, transpires. [Mrs mate] has taken the boys and important stuff to a friend's place for the next couple of days, or until things have settled. I'm staying to defend the house if necessary from ember attack, but will be the f*** outta here if things get too chicken. Happy New year!!
Here's some rambling thoughts of an Australian living in the UK....
To give some scale to what has happened here so far, international media outlets have been reporting the 2018 California fires burnt 2 million acres; the 2019 Amazon fires 2.2 million; and the 2019 Siberian fires 6.7 million. So far Australia's 2019/20 fires have burnt 12 million acres.
There is a fundamental reason why this is happening in Australia that the international media do not explain and that is the country's 700 native species of the Eucalyptus tree. Mother nature has designed them to burn. Bushfires are a natural part of the Australian bush's ability to regenerate. The oil contained in the leaves of a Eucalyptus is released when the tree is heated which is why you see them literally explode into flames. Combined with the buildup of dry leaf matter and bark, Eucalyptus bushland is ready to burn. All it takes is a lightning strike or a firestarter. The fires are incredibly intense and spread quickly, the heat and wind carry embers starting new fires continuously.
It is a hellish scenario. Parts of the country have been in drought for three years or more so the country is a firebox and all it needed was a severe summer to set it off. Apparently, the country is suffering from a diploe weather event that is causing hot winds and hot air to be drawn from the central desert areas which have led to this unprecedented disaster.
California often suffers catastrophic bushfires because in the 1850's gold rush it imported the Eucalyptus which has spread like a weed over some areas of the state. The first time I went to California in the 90's I was dumbfounded as young man to see gumtrees everywhere around LA not understanding the history. Even Portugal has blamed some of its severe bushfires on the introduction of the Eucalyptus.
All very true and I would never make an excuse for my country but for context, it is noteworthy that Australias baseload is generated from coal and some gas as the country has never moved to nuclear power. As an Aussie, I am ever mindful that I now live on a small island where a nuclear catastrophe could render the UK uninhabitable and causes millions of horroble deaths.
Australians live with the risk of bushfire, its part of their DNA as is living with spiders. I cannot tell you the number of times I have been asked 'how did you live there with all of those spiders!' but for me, they were just part of daily life. It was snakes and fires that I was most mindful of. I love being able to roam in the UK countryside and not have to be on snake alert, or live in a house where the risk of bushfire doesn't even pass through my mind.
The response of the Federal Gov does appear to be rather woeful and I must admit that until SJ mentioned it I had not even thought twice about any international response. The management of forestry, fire fighting, infrastructure and planning are all state functions hence some of Morrisoons disconnection. The Oz government does need to do more but the PM has been severely shown up as a climate denier with an inability to relate to normal people. This seems to be a theme in common with a few other Western countries right now, sadly. I even read an article claiming this disaster was Morrisons Hurricane Katrina moment.
I really hope Australia rethinks some of its environmental policies and long term commitments after this. Time will tell and I believe this is going to be a momentous event in Australis history that will change Astralias political priorities for generations to come.
One of the main reasons for these fires is what the Aboriginals have known for thousands of years, but the white fella has largely ignored...................THE NEED TO BURN BACK EVERY YEAR!!!
whatever the cause or effects, I have total sympathy for the ordinary citizen facing this hell.
I really wish this is the case. As you say the bush will regenerate, just like it did after Yellowstone fire or, to a lesser extent because of scale, in this country after the 1987 non-hurricane. Incidentally, those who could not afford to clear the mess on their estate saw a better regeneration than those who did. To quote Jeff Goldblum in one of his best role, "Life will find a way".
'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.
In terms of international response to this disaster, under international law other countries cannot send response teams of their own volition, it has to be at the request of the affected country, otherwise it is effectively an invasion.
The same happens with other Disasters such as Floods, earthquakes etc, if the government of the affected country feel they can deal with the incident internally, then unless they request international assistance, other countries hands are tied.
We see it quite a lot with super powers such as the USA or China, neither of those countries will ever ask for international assistance in dealing with an internal crisis, they cant afford to be seen to be vulnerable or needing assistance on the international stage.
In the past when a country has sent teams uninvited to respond to a disaster, the team has, literally been turned back on arrival at the airport in the affected country.
All very true and I would never make an excuse for my country but for context, it is noteworthy that Australias baseload is generated from coal and some gas as the country has never moved to nuclear power
Well with year round sunshine, a maritime climate coastline of great length I would say that Australia is probably one of the best places for a wind and solar program. That and a high GDP means it’s got no excuse for having a cleaner power infrastructure.
Last edited by MrSmith; 4th January 2020 at 20:08.
My wife is checking her Facebook from time to time and the pics about Australia are heart breaking ...
Saw someone on Twitter disputing the use of the word "wild", suggesting spontaneous. Suggestion is there has been a lot of arson.
Again, per some on Twitter (!) it's been a green initiative to not carry out the regular "burnback" that Steve27752 mentions and which controls the build up of combustible material.
These are from 2009:
https://www.smh.com.au/environment/g...0211-84mk.html
https://www.smh.com.au/national/fine...0212-85bd.html
and now
https://twitter.com/grant_farquhar/s...89882482507782
I'm not endorsing any particular view as I don't have sufficient knowledge; just pointing out the "knee jerk" reaction to attribute to climate change may not be the right or complete answer.
Last edited by David_D; 4th January 2020 at 20:12.
Very well said. I totally agree.
Agree it should lead the world on solar, but it is behind on wind. However, neither constitutes baseload generation. Tesla recently installed a 100Mw battery farm in Sth Australia after that state suffered some blackouts last summer. Battery technology could be the enabler to renewable baseload power in the future.
We went all over the east coast in November and it was quite bad and worrying then, nearly two months on and it’s just got worse and worse. So sad to see.
My wife’s uncle who we visited in Hervey Bay told us that every year it just gets worse. Getting hotter and dryer. Less animals And insects about than when he was younger. More desert. He’s in his 70’s but has noticed so much change over the decades but particularly the last few years.
Wonder if these super coal mines will get the go ahead after this.
The coal mines are what got them elected so I suspect they will go ahead unscathed
There going to have a lot more eyes on them now though. Nuts when you see there natural wonder of the world half gone.
Yes, I hope there will be a lot more pressure on the Gov to change course, However, the rich, modern Australia is built on immigration and mining. I dont see much changing that will threaten the nations prosperity and therefore the Govs hold on power.
Yes, maybe they should ask the aboriginals who did burn back of the under fuel every year, to stop out of control bush fires. Unfortunately the green lobby have protested against this and also prevented people from creating firebreaks around their properties by clearing trees - in fact one guy, I think named Sheahan, was fined $100k for doing just that and his property is now the only only one standing in the area.
It’s also not as bad as the 5m hectare burn in 1851 in Victoria, and although rain fall has been low for 3 months, it’s not out of line with many other years.
So clearly a horrible thing to happen, but nothing to do with climate change. Plenty of info out there if you can be arsed to look it up instead of just shouting “denier” (best shouted whilst waving a pitchfork and looking for a witch to drown)
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Looks like thats not working out too well for them. Fact of life is that most of Australia isn’t really habitable without energy and renewables won’t provide that reliably
https://climatechangedispatch.com/av...ich-americans/
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
How about some sympathy for the ordinary people living in this hell for months?
I’ve just watched a man fleeing along a dirt track on a motorbike as his farm burnt behind him.
flames on the side of the road,smoke and embers in the air then he spots his mates house burning down and stops to warn another neighbour.
Absolutely it is terrible though as Mondie said earlier bushfires like dealing with snakes and spiders is part of their dna.
No pitchfork, just data on the increase of extreme weather events in Australia.
https://www.csiro.au/en/Research/Oan...anging-climate
'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.
Even if that’s the case, and it might not be (https://www.iceagenow.info/australia...-climate-data/) it’s less than 1c in 100 years. Honestly, do you think that that is the cause of these terrible fires, especially when a very large number of them are attributed to arson?
Another factor to consider, relating to the human cost, is population growth, from 7.5m odd in 1960 to 25m today. I rode through that whole area around Vic and south eastern Aus for a month in 2018, covering 5000km. There were areas where towns had been extended by 10’s of sq km, to be in effect in the middle of the bush completely surrounded by trees that are basically bombs. Couple that with the lack of prophylactic burning and you can see the cause may well be other than climate change.
Also, like everyone, I saw the tragic picture of the young kangaroo burnt to death. It was caught in a fence. So what killed it, the fires, which have occurred for thousands of years, or the fence?
You may also wonder if there’s some hypocrisy here, with about 7m kangaroos sanctioned for killing by the Australian government in 2018 (https://www.savethekangaroo.com/factsheet). In fact, on my entire trip through the region I saw just 3 live kangaroos- in fact I saw more koalas than kangaroos.
There should surely be a concern here for everyone that the knee-jerk “its climate change” response will prevent action to mitigate the fires in the future, or at least the loss of life and property since it’s for certain there will always be fires in Australia.
Certainly Australia switching to unreliable renewables and electric cars won’t do anything to prevent this happening again
Have you got a source for that photo?
So clever my foot fell off.
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/au...res-iss-image/
When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........
Here's a visualisation of all the fires that have occurred in the course of about a month. These are all the areas which have been affected, but not all the areas are still burning.
Wonder why it’s getting hotter and dryer in Australia?
Maybe the earth is getting closer to the sun or something?
Blimey, you were quick off the mark, I've posted a correction now.
Last edited by jools; 6th January 2020 at 12:01.
Here's a visualisation of all the fires that have occurred in the course of about a month. These are all the areas which have been affected, but not all the areas are still burning.
However, this striking image did not originate with the ISS, nor was it actually a photograph. Rather, it was a “3D visualization” of the Australian fires by Anthony Hearsey, “an image maker who specialises in photography, retouching and creative imaging,” which was compiled from NASA satellite data collected across the span of a month.
erm..
'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.
Thanks all for the clarification - that photo is incredibly powerful and my first thought was if that was an actual snapshot the situation was beyond comprehension.
As it is, it is a valid depiction, but needs the explanation to give context.
Still absolutely amazing and horrifying though.
So clever my foot fell off.
Powerful image and isn’t fire season traditionally at its peak in February
its fake its doctored.
No: it's an accurate graphic (and presented as such by the author) of all fires recorded between 5/12/19 and 5/1/20. He even specifies that some of those fires are no more.
'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.
we differ I see it as misleading.
Is that because you don’t understand it and the narrative that accompanies it?
When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........
I genuinely, with the explanation provided, cannot see how it is misleading.
It’s my view,I am not looking for an argument.
What’s happening is bad enough it doesn’t need embellishment.
https://petapixel.com/2017/04/03/the...otojournalism/
It’s my view,I am not looking for an argument.
What’s happening is bad enough it doesn’t need embellishment.
https://petapixel.com/2017/04/03/the...otojournalism/
Conclusion
Documentary and Street Photography have a simply duty: show reality. Any deliberate distortion by the photographer that does not fulfill this requirement disqualifies the images as Documentary.
It is none of those and no attempt is being made to embellish.
When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........
It mislead you because you thought it was a photo, i.e. an instant representation of reality.
But as for anything taking into account the legend associated with any illustration is a key part of understanding it.
Think of it more as a timeframe of 31 photos (there may be loads more, at different scales, but for simplification) collated into one.
'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.
Posting Permissions
