smart meters-good or bad?

[Ruggertech]

Fumes are instead spewed out by the power station. The electric car is similar to nuclear power - great until you have to dispose of it. In fact mining the resources is not great too!

All true, there is no good way apart from an awful lot less of us, or us all living in megacities with everything we need in walking distance, and the countryside reserved for agriculture.

[Franky Four Fingers]

I can see that yes, I think I'd get obsessed with it!

Yeh you do, I was coming home and checking the usage daily and couldn't understand despite generating 20kw from the solar panels why my bill was £5 when it should have been barely 2. Looked back on the app and found my sons girlfriend who does shifts was, rather than opening the windows or going outside was firing up the air-con machine he had in his bedroom for hours. We know it was that as it was hitting 2kw and apart from the immersion etc there is little that draws that much for that time period. I caved in to the air-con machine as his bedroom is top floor and gets roasting in there but on the understanding it was used only when necessary. Clearly opening a window or going outside in the shade was too hard. That was soon knocked on the head

[Ruggertech]

That was soon knocked on the head

Bet it was lol.

[Templogin]

All true, there is no good way apart from an awful lot less of us, or us all living in megacities with everything we need in walking distance, and the countryside reserved for agriculture.

Yes, that about sums it up!

[Mick P]

Why would a business who’s aim is to make money and grow…Give out free devices to reduce consumption and do the opposite?


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You pay for the smart meters in your monthly bills.

The industry wants them in for all the right reasons such as 100% usage cover on every customer with up to date information.

The main problem, however, is that the energy providers were heavily targeted on installation of the things and each of the big six had their own meters that were marginally different to the others. They used this as a tool to make changing to another supplier difficult and that backfired on them and a more universal meter is now being installed. However there is no government target on maintenance of the things and if something goes wrong it is a lottery as to whether you get a quick repair or a slow one. This is the main reason for their unpopularity.

I spent the last 12 years of my career buying gas and electricity and I can assure you that the industry is doing very nicely out of them and they would dearly love for an up to date model to be released.

[Rod]

Fumes are instead spewed out by the power station. The electric car is similar to nuclear power - great until you have to dispose of it. In fact mining the resources is not great too!

My reference to an electric car was in the manufacturing of it and it's required components, i.e. the battery and other parts.
The manufacturering of a smart meter will have its own environmental impact too.
At the end of the day a smart meter saves doing readings and for the energy supplier not having to send out cards/letters to millions that don't have one.
Then there's the added cost of sending out reminders all because some people can't be bothered or are unable to read the old type of meter, or don't have the internet.

[Incredible Sulk]

My reference to an electric car was in the manufacturing of it and it's required components, i.e. the battery and other parts.
The manufacturering of a smart meter will have its own environmental impact too.
At the end of the day a smart meter saves doing readings and for the energy supplier not having to send out cards/letters to millions that don't have one.
Then there's the added cost of sending out reminders all because some people can't be bothered or are unable to read the old type of meter, or don't have the internet.

Plus, like most other things on God's earth, meters have a finite life. When our were replaced, the ones being substituted were EOL. Swapping dumb meters for smart ones was a no-brainer. For us anyway. Many on here would disagree with that it seems.

[hogthrob]

This is inevitable. When they need to shed some load this winter, the smart meter users will be easier to shed.

That isn't how load shedding works. A geopraphical area would have its power cut, smart and dumb meters alike.

[Dangermouse64]

I'm firmly in the "tell them to f*** o**" camp - they are unreliable and can introduce all sorts of complexities into life that are just unneccesary - it is not mandatory anyway.
We are being pursued constantly to book an appointment and I refuse as I have my own readings which I keep monthly whereas my neighbour, who has recently had one fitted, has had no less that seven "recalibration" visits including two replacements and reckons he is still paying more than he used to - BUT he doesn't have the data to back up his assertion.

B

Actually, the meters are correct, it's the operators reading them that make the mistakes.

[blackal]

Some influential posts above………..

Thinking further, having recent confrontations with OVO direct debit and self-submitted readings - I wonder how much hassle a faulty meter would produce with the supplier?

That said - what happens if my old meter pitches a fit?

One thing is certain though - with the increasing prices and winter……. There will be more and more people taking the decision to at least bypass their electricity meter. Some might even chance the gas meter…….

[Templogin]

That isn't how load shedding works. A geopraphical area would have its power cut, smart and dumb meters alike.

That would make more sense than my theory.

[blackal]

Thanks for the lecture.


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Jeez ! I found it informative………….

[mr.chef]

Well I guess if you need a utility company to help you budget through the seasons I guess that’s helpful.

So you believe everyone who pays a set monthly direct debit for their utilities can't budget?

[oldoakknives]

All true, there is no good way apart from an awful lot less of us, or us all living in megacities with everything we need in walking distance, and the countryside reserved for agriculture.

Quite...

[trident-7]

Why would a business who’s aim is to make money and grow…Give out free devices to reduce consumption and do the opposite?


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Call me cynical….Because there’s only so much that the great British public can afford…we’ve seen this lately & the taxpayer is bailing the same taxpayers out. If there’s a limit to how much energy we can afford, there’s a limit to how much the energy companies can charge. So get us all using less energy with the incentive that we’ll be saving money…then put up the price of the energy so that we’ll be paying just as much as we were before.

[Saint-Just]

I'll just post this here: Rise in energy firms remotely switching homes to prepay meters

[blackal]

I'll just post this here: Rise in energy firms remotely switching homes to prepay meters

That together with requiring new businesses to post a bond of several £thousands - shows how serious they are in maintaining their cashcow!

Thanks to people on here explaining the issues with smart-meters - I've cancelled my agreement to a smart meter.

[Wallasey Runner]

I'll just post this here: Rise in energy firms remotely switching homes to prepay meters

Read this earlier on BBC news, a reason not to have Smart Meters me thinks.

[smashie]

Read this earlier on BBC news, a reason not to have Smart Meters me thinks.

They've been doing this for years, they swapped me to prepay while I was hospital in 2020 (pre covid).

When I got home their system wasn't working so I couldn't top up. They asked me why I hadn't contacted them, I patiently explained I was in a coma. I'm still on bl&&dy prepay and I can't get off it.

[~dadam02~]

What would be a reason to be moved to prepay? Non payment of bills seems the obvious one, any others?

Edit: I've just been moved this week to a smart meter.

[smashie]

What would be a reason to be moved to prepay? Non payment of bills seems the obvious one, any others?

Edit: I've just been moved this week to a smart meter.

Non payment, I'm self employed, no invoices, no income. First time in my life I've missed a payment.

[~dadam02~]

I'm sure it was/is a pain, but it seems a legitimate reason to do so?

[Shoughie0]

I'm sure it was/is a pain, but it seems a legitimate reason to do so?

No. For vulnerable people without a smart meter, there exist laws to protect them from being unnecessarily and rapidly switched to a prepay meter. Those existing laws are bypassed with a smart meter. Suppliers do not follow rules recommended by the Regulator.

[~dadam02~]

Not trying to be purposely obtuse, but are you sure thats the case where smart meters are concerned, i.e. do these same regulations apply to smart meters? I find it hard to belive that energy companies would fall foul of such an obvious bit of regulation, feels like something is missing here.

[Templogin]

Are the electricity companies who are moving people to prepay plans: -

• Replacing meters with meters that need a top-up card being used?
• Charging higher rates?

I remember paying the rip-off rates when I moved into this house. I had to pay to get the meter changed to a normal one.

[Shoughie0]

The BBC article explains it well. Without a smart meter, a supplier is under an obligation to offer the consumer an affordable payment plan. Only as a last resort, is a supplier allowed to obtain a warrant to enter the consumer's property and install a physical prepayment meter. With a smart meter, the supplier remotely switches the consumer to a prepayment tariff with a click of a mouse, and, typically, informs them after the event via text. The supplier does not need to contact the consumer or obtain a warrant beforehand. The Regulator has limited powers and does a poor job of using the ones it has.

Smart meters have exacerbated an already asymmetric power imbalance in favour of the supplier.

[Mj2k]

No. For vulnerable people without a smart meter, there exist laws to protect them from being unnecessarily and rapidly switched to a prepay meter. Those existing laws are bypassed with a smart meter. Suppliers do not follow rules recommended by the Regulator.

Wow, I had not realised that was an option for them. Disgusting they can be bypassed so simply.

[Montello]

Smart meters are bad if they are a route to allow energy companies to abuse the safeguards put in place to protect consumers.

Smart meters are good for people like me who can use them to monitor, and reduce, their energy consumption and to only pay for energy used.

[snowman]

I've never seen any benefit to me (Submitting a reading every now and then really is no chore at all), so I've always resisted getting one.

I expect at some point, they'll make the cheaper tariffs only available to people on smart meters.

They'll get us in the end, but I still don't see the benefit to the customer - Oh wait, there isn't one...

M

[Mj2k]

I've never seen any benefit to me (Submitting a reading every now and then really is no chore at all), so I've always resisted getting one.

I expect at some point, they'll make the cheaper tariffs only available to people on smart meters.

They'll get us in the end, but I still don't see the benefit to the customer - Oh wait, there isn't one...

M

They will do some cheaper deal for sure to push the others onto them. Once there, unless you are nocturnal they will pounce on premium time of day usage etc, as would any company that could have that chance.

[Templogin]

The BBC article explains it well. Without a smart meter, a supplier is under an obligation to offer the consumer an affordable payment plan. Only as a last resort, is a supplier allowed to obtain a warrant to enter the consumer's property and install a physical prepayment meter. With a smart meter, the supplier remotely switches the consumer to a prepayment tariff with a click of a mouse, and, typically, informs them after the event via text. The supplier does not need to contact the consumer or obtain a warrant beforehand. The Regulator has limited powers and does a poor job of using the ones it has.

Smart meters have exacerbated an already asymmetric power imbalance in favour of the supplier.

That is very interesting. Thanks a lot for that little gem. I haven't seen a smart meter, but can I assume that there isn't a card reader built into it?

[Mj2k]

That is very interesting. Thanks a lot for that little gem. I haven't seen a smart meter, but can I assume that there isn't a card reader built into it?

Nothing I can see on mine to suggest a card reader is present within it.

[stuie-t]

Nothing I can see on mine to suggest a card reader is present within it.

That’s not the smart meter - that’s just the home display so you can see what your current usage is. The meter probably be where the consumer unit is.


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[Mj2k]

That’s not the smart meter - that’s just the home display so you can see what your current usage is. The meter probably be where the consumer unit is.


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I had assumed this was the only place it would have had a card reader.

If they want me to shove my hand down into the 'gas meter pit' this house has, they can FRO lol.

So is my gas smart meter powered by my electric smart meter, as no cables between them?

Annoying the gas lag on displaying a reading too.

[blackal]

If a smart meter was foisted upon me - I'd be tempted to clad it in a tin biscuit box to prevent transmissions (assuming it was inside the house/garage like currently)

Remove the box once a quarter.

[Shoughie0]

There is no card with a smart meter in prepay mode. The consumer 'tops-up' their credit online; when their credit runs out, so does their energy.

[Templogin]

Oh dear. Well I can understand that the electicity board want their money, there seems to be no social conscience though.

[Chris_in_the_UK]

Oh dear. Well I can understand that the electicity board want their money, there seems to be no social conscience though.

What social conscience are you suggesting?

[Templogin]

The one that reduces the risks of hypothermia to old folks

[Chris_in_the_UK]

The one that reduces the risks of hypothermia to old folks

From/by whom?

Where are you suggesting the risk is - please do not quote media sensationalism.

And again, you have been here long enough - you should know better posting this stuff in g&D.

[Templogin]

My apologies if I have offended anyone. I hadn't spotted that I was in G&D, not that I think that I am guilty of anything.

My comments are not intended as political if that's your angle. I think that we all have a duty to look out for our neighbours whatever our political opinions. I think that the same goes for the industries that provide things that it is difficult to live without; power and water for instance.

[Mj2k]

If a smart meter was foisted upon me - I'd be tempted to clad it in a tin biscuit box to prevent transmissions (assuming it was inside the house/garage like currently)

Remove the box once a quarter.

Or clad it in those faraday car pouches. I quite like the idea of that.

[blackal]

Or clad it in those faraday car pouches. I quite like the idea of that.

The meter itself - will be hard wired/mounted to the wall either in outside cabinet or indoors - The display unit (portable) isn't the unit that sends the data back to the energy provider.

[Franky Four Fingers]

Anyone with a smart meter, download the Hugo app for your tablet/smart phone, shows you daily spend and what you're using hour by hour.

[Montello]

Anyone with a smart meter, download the Hugo app for your tablet/smart phone, shows you daily spend and what you're using hour by hour.

Does it interfere with the connection to the existing display or do they Co exist together?

[Mj2k]

The meter itself - will be hard wired/mounted to the wall either in outside cabinet or indoors - The display unit (portable) isn't the unit that sends the data back to the energy provider.

Yes, I meant creating a larger pouch to contain it.

Will work better than a biscuit tin, and easier to shape around it.

Or simply delete the ability for it to use your wifi, they are not sim enabled are they? I struggle for signal without wifi boost for calls.


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[Franky Four Fingers]

Does it interfere with the connection to the existing display or do they Co exist together?

No my IHD is working fine. Its simple to set up, download the app, address and postcodes which pulls your meter number across- confirm its you with a card and then just wait for 12 hours and it pulls the info to the app.

[Montello]

No my IHD is working fine. Its simple to set up, download the app, address and postcodes which pulls your meter number across- confirm its you with a card and then just wait for 12 hours and it pulls the info to the app.

You have to give them credit card details?

[Franky Four Fingers]

You have to give them credit card details?

Debit card to confirm its you but its not used. It has hundred of great ratings on the App Store and its well recognised.

[Templogin]

Yes, I meant creating a larger pouch to contain it.

Will work better than a biscuit tin, and easier to shape around it.

Or simply delete the ability for it to use your wifi, they are not sim enabled are they? I struggle for signal without wifi boost for calls.


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I was led to understand that they all have sim cards linked to 3G. Just what I have been told though.