Reply With QuoteBut it wasn't the old man but the brothers themselves who claim to have met the pilot Antoine....
I agree, there standard 3 hand models were priced around £2950 e.g. Supermarine, MB II etc with their Chronographs around £3495 arou d that time. However, I have never heard of a Bremont Spitfire model! There was their first limited edition the EP-120 with a rotor made from Spitfire metal. That was £7950 on release and now trades for at least 5 figures nowadays. Not a bad return on a ‘hot air’ brand and a major missed opportunity if that was offered to you at 2.2k!Originally Posted by wildheart
I don’t think anyone is arguing that Bremont are not using intensive marketing around their brand. That is how you build a brand as anyone with any marketing knowledge would tell you. Look at Rolex and Omega or any other brand to be honest.
Personally, it is much harder to build a new brand than to buy a name off the shelf and surf its heritage even if you have no other link to the brand than the actual name!
It now seems clear that a Mr Bremont existed and was member of the Free French Army so has anyone thought about the possibility that the ‘old Mr Bremont’ may have embellished his story to the English Brothers? It’s another angle or possibility!
Last edited by paw3001; 2nd January 2020 at 12:27.
But it wasn't the old man but the brothers themselves who claim to have met the pilot Antoine....
Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.
Nick didn't actually say he was a Free French pilot, he said he flew in the Free French in the second world war. In what capacity that was we don't know, we are all assuming that Antoine Bremont was a Free French pilot because that's what was inferred.
In marketing speak "He flew in the Free French" could mean anything from he once cadged a lift on a flight to him being a fully fledged pilot!
"It transpired their host had flown aircraft during the war, as well as being a gifted engineer."
Hmmm.
https://www.bremont.com/pages/about-bremont
Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.
I've got an ALT1-WT worldtimer chrono. I've had it from new, bought 6 years ago. I really like it - the dial design is visually interesting, the case construction likewise, it has proven robust in use and I find the worldtimer complication genuinely useful. The only "dodgy" marketing I can recall for this model was the tie-in for the original limited version to the C-17 Globemaster crews, which wasn't really a factor in my decision. Sure, it's got a 7753 (I think, certainly that series of movement) inside, which is nicely decorated, but I don't buy into the "in-house is better than anything else" argument and accuracy-wise it's been excellent. There was a small quality issue (the central chrono hand started to move on its pinion) which was fixed free of charge in a week, and otherwise the watch has performed well. I've never seen another in the wild, either.
I'm shocked to discover that, having paid full retail for the watch, I'm a crackhead; I was wondering where my money had been going.
Honestly, you pays your money and takes your choice. I had a number of options (indeed I think I posted about the choice at the time) and decided I liked the Bremont the most. I think perceived "value" is entirely subjective - all these brands are priced so far beyond the cost of production that we are fundamentally buying a "feeling" rather than anything else, which perhaps explains the savagery of brand wars across Planet WIS. Put another way: someone is clearly buying newish Rolex subs on the grey and secondary market at multiples of RRP: I think those people are barking mad and I wouldn't do the same, but if they've got the cash then they can set fire to it for all I care.
I don't really have a dog in the fight (aside from owning one of Bremont's watches) but I am always amused at the visceral responses these threads get. There's plenty of tenuous marketing in the watch world, and I don't think Bremont are anywhere near unique in that, but somewhere they seem to have become the haters' favourite. I think that's a bit sad, but hey - if taking a vigorous and principled stance on marketing BS and its perceived implications on corporate conduct makes folk happy, then fair enough - there are plenty of targets out there. (Out of interest, how many of us have boycotted VAG cars in the aftermath of their systematic and persistent emissions fakery?)
Sorry that is just a disingenuous comment, Raffe!
If this is all true and to be fair I don’t know if it is true. They would only know/assume he was a pilot if he had told or implied that to them! I don’t think the brand needs Him to be a pilot for the aviation interest as that is covered by their own father dying in a plane crash and their own growing up around planes and being pilots themselves
In any case, it is clear we have made our decisions and taken our positions and so we will not solve this by talking on a watch forum and I doubt any one else really cares!
Well, I think this comments puts this thread to bed. Thanks for a sensible and clear contribution.I've got an ALT1-WT worldtimer chrono. I've had it from new, bought 6 years ago. I really like it - the dial design is visually interesting, the case construction likewise, it has proven robust in use and I find the worldtimer complication genuinely useful. The only "dodgy" marketing I can recall for this model was the tie-in for the original limited version to the C-17 Globemaster crews, which wasn't really a factor in my decision. Sure, it's got a 7753 (I think, certainly that series of movement) inside, which is nicely decorated, but I don't buy into the "in-house is better than anything else" argument and accuracy-wise it's been excellent. There was a small quality issue (the central chrono hand started to move on its pinion) which was fixed free of charge in a week, and otherwise the watch has performed well. I've never seen another in the wild, either.
I'm shocked to discover that, having paid full retail for the watch, I'm a crackhead; I was wondering where my money had been going.
Honestly, you pays your money and takes your choice. I had a number of options (indeed I think I posted about the choice at the time) and decided I liked the Bremont the most. I think perceived "value" is entirely subjective - all these brands are priced so far beyond the cost of production that we are fundamentally buying a "feeling" rather than anything else, which perhaps explains the savagery of brand wars across Planet WIS. Put another way: someone is clearly buying newish Rolex subs on the grey and secondary market at multiples of RRP: I think those people are barking mad and I wouldn't do the same, but if they've got the cash then they can set fire to it for all I care.
I don't really have a dog in the fight (aside from owning one of Bremont's watches) but I am always amused at the visceral responses these threads get. There's plenty of tenuous marketing in the watch world, and I don't think Bremont are anywhere near unique in that, but somewhere they seem to have become the haters' favourite. I think that's a bit sad, but hey - if taking a vigorous and principled stance on marketing BS and its perceived implications on corporate conduct makes folk happy, then fair enough - there are plenty of targets out there. (Out of interest, how many of us have boycotted VAG cars in the aftermath of their systematic and persistent emissions fakery?)
What we know and others don't is that they will lie again. It is only a matter of time. Watch (oops) this space.
It's the eternal discussion about VFM.
Bremont gives you a nicely decorated ETA in a well made case with an interesting design and some clever marketing blurp for a hellofalotofmoney and Eddie gives you that same ETA, be it undecorated, for a lot less.
Some of their divers look lovely, but I wouldn't pay RRP in a million years. To each his/her own, as long as you enjoy your watch who cares about the rest of the world's views.
Got a new watch, divers watch it is, had to drown the bastard to get it!
For people who did not serve in the armed forces, is it 10%, 15%, or 20% more that they need to pay for a Bremont?
Asking for a friend.
Why where they keen to "avoid the French authorities" after dumping down in a field ?
Can one be prosecuted for an engine failure and daring to land somewhere ?
You’re suggesting that anyone that buys one has been seduced by the marketing, either consciously or subconsciously. Simply not true. At one point I had two in my collection, I was looking for a diver to sit alongside my Sub at the time and a pilot type watch. I looked around and compared the original Supermarine and BC-S2 against many other watches in that price range, including offerings from Breitling and IWC, particularly their pilots watches and the Aquatimer of the time. I ended up with both Bremonts because, when holding them, they appeared to be much better watches. Marketing and history didn’t come into it. At the time I don’t think I’d even read the Antoine Bremont story, and I wouldn’t have even questioned it if I had because it has absolutely nothing to do with the quality of the watches produced.
Whether you believe the story or not the brand has moved on a lot since then. They have done great work marketing to the forces who really seem to appreciate those efforts. Searching around the net only yields a few people on here questioning their name so it is obviously not harming them too much.
For me being a WIS is being obsessive about all watches, if the brand or history is important then others can stick to being a RIS, OIS or PIS.
We can, however, prove that the watches are sh*tters.
Indeed so - and expressed with more brevity and precision than I can muster.
Put another way: if we were all perfectly rational in our buying behaviour, then this place wouldn't exist, because nobody in their right mind would pay thousands (or even hundreds, or tens) of pounds for a device that tells the time less well than the phones we all carry around anyway.
Fundamentally, to Danstone's point above: anyone who purchases any watch is indeed being influenced by marketing, at some level...
Sorry Paul but I misunderstood your post.
You said that 'the ‘old Mr Bremont’ may have embellished his story to the English Brothers', which I misunderstood to suggest their own father had relayed the story to them (as somebody else had stated earlier). Hence my response that it wasn't the father but the brothers - but you obviously meant Antoine Bremont himself, which is a real possibility. I read too fast and understood your post wrongly (still don't get why that makes it disingenous, rather nonsensical?).
Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.
I thought that was a bit odd but on that video posted below he said it was more to do with the bureaucracy that they would face in France that they were keen to avoid French authorities.
Because they’re ugly.
Happy New Year Bremont fans 👍🏻
There are so many comments about bremont using outsourced movements and this somehow seems to detract from the value of the watch?
I couldn’t disagree more, they use ETAs and valjoux s all certified by COSC this on its own adds some cost, and arguably value to the product.
Breitling I believe did exactly the same before developing, relatively recently, their in house movement.
IWC also did pretty much the same thing. The industry all the way to the beginning of the 10s was based exactly on that model? What was wrong with that? Not much...
Thankfully, it actually kept mechanical watchmaking going so we can have this kinda of discussions now.
The in house argument is beginning to “mean” something to us watch geeks, even if the produced in house movements are not as proven as the workhorses produced by ETA.
Does a watch with an outsourced, quality movement detract for the value of a watch? I don’t think so.
If you do then it is about time to stop drooling over icons such as 6263 Daytonas and valjoux powered Autavias....
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
It's not the movement, which is fine, it's the asking price, and that is indeed also the case with the above mentioned brands.
Look at Eddie's Dreadnought, all your Breitling specs for a fraction. Is the Breitling a bad watch?, no, and if the brand intrigues you and you want to pay that sort of money, why not do so and stop defending the indefensable and just enjoy it.
Got a new watch, divers watch it is, had to drown the bastard to get it!
The issue for Bremont isn't existing fans, but acquiring new owners and buyers. If the level of suspicion remains, then regardless of feelings about their designs, I will never acquire one.
Over the last few years, I look for transparency and honesty in a brand. Bremont have clouded themselves in nonsense and that is a red flag.
I think Bremont realise this btw and maybe why they sponsored the 'Project Possible' (which I followed). Now that is better marketing . https://www.ablogtowatch.com/breakin...ermarine-s300/
Last edited by crazyp; 2nd January 2020 at 13:43.
That's not very nice.....I mean, they're not my type of course....One has plums shoved in his mouth and a whopper of a curly hairdo and the other says sweet F.A !
Actually I have a mb2 in orange and it’s a bit marmite.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
So OP - have you been persuaded one way or the other by the wonderful responses on this thread?
Marketing departments love reading that sort of post: ‘I bought it but wasn’t influenced by their marketing’. It’s their favourite running joke, and it always produces much hilarity.
We all have our definition of WIS. To me the S stands for savants, which implies knowledge.For me being a WIS is being obsessive about all watches, if the brand or history is important then others can stick to being a RIS, OIS or PIS.
'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.
Well, yes, this is the point. Many other minor brands eg Steinhart, Yema, even the dreaded Christopher Ward, offer watches with similar commercial movements at a fraction of the price that Bremont do. How come??? Am we really paying for Bremont's marketing? We certainly aren't paying for technology....
btw As I've said above, I'm not a Bremont fan, but must admit that the ones pictured in this thread are actually far more attractive than the ones I currently see in the shops.
But is it really? IWC and Breitling charge more than bremont while using the same movements.
With bremont you actually get some technology such as the anti vibration cage and strut steel hardening and the product has actually been manufactured and assembled in the uk. I am not sure where CW and Steinhart Make their cases and components?
So although some of it might be for bremont’s marketing, the rest is actually higher costs and some additional technological features.
Are they really worth the asking price? I don’t know but they can be found new with good discounts which makes them a viable option at least in my eyes....
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
As long as you get the last word? Feel free to abstain.
Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.
That makes no sense, there is no official forces discount.
They have been sponsoring stuff for ages, right back to the start for Long way down, the recent ‘last overland’. The ties in for watched in more interesting use are far more interesting than Lady Ga Ga house shopping or Clooney drinking coffee.
Zenith did some this similar for the highest skydive. Great stuff!
None of those brands have hardened watch cases the only brands that do are Damasko and Sinn on some. I believe Bremont watch cases look better than Damasko ones though.
Yes I stand corrected of course the Supermarine model. I think at the time they sold for around £1,700 on here second hand? The ALT 1C - Green was lovely on a Green strap I think the version I tried in Jura was a Brooklands or Goodwood model? I tried a trade on my SMP and they only offered half what I wanted. The P51 was one that really turned my head, but I reckon they must be near £5K now? I hinds sight maybe I should have gone for one, but I'd have flipped it inside six months!
The P51 is the limited edition that was a real success alongside the EP-102 and Codebreaker, pre-owned are in the £12-15k region.
The annual LE announcement has had too many dress watches, the P51 was the last non-dress I reckon and i hope they go back to that style for future releases.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Why do I always see people selling those watches with scratches or a complete service including case replacement? Their hardening process must be inferior to to that of the above mentioned watches?
And, you can buy the Archimede Outdoor for 880,- Euro's including a 1200 vickers hardened case.
Got a new watch, divers watch it is, had to drown the bastard to get it!
Wow just looked at a P51 at £16K on Chrono24, madness. Oh for a crystal ball in horology!
Not a clue I dont own one, only pointing out that Bremont offer hardened watch cases so they are not the same as the several comparative brands mentioned. Archimede seem to have had more than a few issues with their own hardened watch cases there is a thread on WUS regarding marks popping up on them and also marks on the case back. There have been threads before of Damasko watches picking up marks from NATO straps.
So is Ed Sheeran but girls swoon over him and his music is pretty good. (Final decision was made by my wife).
Last edited by j111dja; 2nd January 2020 at 15:45.
Lol
400 odd posts in 4 or 5 days, I really can't be bothered reading it. If we all had the same watch life would be pretty boring.
So to answer the question asked, that's why I don't have a Bremont.
Personally I don’t fit with their heritage and military inspired watches and the majority are to similar in style to others I already own from other brands.
I needed to google "Bremont armed forces discount" to double check, and Bremonts website popped up.
https://www.bremont.com/products/argonaut
It's 15% discount, verified via military ID card, or via a "Defence Discount Service Card", but not available on credit finance, and it looks like the discount is only valid if you buy direct from them.
So on a £3,000 watch, my friend would be paying £450 over the odds.
Personally I love a Bremont, if you look hard enough into any brand you can find fault. I have other brands so can compare like for like but I wouldn’t criticise anything I hadn’t seen first hand.
Time for a photo,
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Very, very nice. If you ever get bored with that, let me know!
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Well you learn something new every day, I went to launch for that range and didn’t know. It’s not a full blown discount across the whole Bremont catalog though, that’s what I thought you meant.
As for paying over the odds, loads of companies have armed forces discount and blue light.
I hope you are going to take this up with Col. Sanders as armed forces get cheap chicken, discounted rail tickets too. If you have ever got the train to KFC, you have been well robbed. Especially if you are head to toe in Ted Baker.
Gosh, a real humdinger of a Bremont thread. Haven't seen one for ages, but then again, I haven't really been here for ages.
I'm a fan of the brand and have three, the U2 Blue, MB3 with the orange band and the 37mm white solo with rose gold makers and hands, which was really a gift for the missus, as she fell in love with the watch. I'm really looking forward to seeing what they use the new in-house model for and saving my pennies!
I'm beyond caring about all the naysayers, some make valid points, some seems pure spite, each to their own.
I got up to about page 5 before skipping to this post. So a couple of small points about a few things said earlier. The Brexit / anti British stuff, as if this is some sort of embarresment, I would suggest is in the minds of those posting such stuff. Where I live, probably 95% of the population know nothing of Brexit and those that do, probably care even less. So all things British continue to be inexplicably popular here - maybe it's the flag containing the same colours - but union flags on car roofs, furniture, cushion covers, T-shirts and so on, remain as popular as they always have been.
There was also a comment about CW's in-house movement - when this was announced the sense of anticipation was really quite exciting, imagining a team, hidden away, secretly beavering away on this movement. So when the announcement of the companies merger with the movements manufacturer was announced, it was actually a profound let down at the time. What it actually did was take CW away from being a purely British band, to an Anglo-Swiss brand, nothing wrong with that, but it's something they have only recently, in the last 2-3 years, been comfortable in promoting. The same movement is used by Meistersinger.
Anyway, as a result of - and in honour of this thread - I will wear my MB3 tomorrow!
CW? Thought this was about Bremont?
Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.
CW was used as an example earlier in the thread...
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Ahh, thanks.
Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.
In a farm barn full of clocks that gave them inspiration to make watches. I wonder what happened to the clocks.
Posting Permissions
