Why don't we all have a Bremont?

[Danstone]

Granted the marketing for most brands will stretch things, but what can't be defended is how they attempted to con people with the claims of an in-house movement and whether it happened once a few years ago should come in to it.

At the risk of being flamed again, should we all boycott the brand that falsely claimed to have produced the first automatic watch?

Yes it was a huge error of judgement from Bremont but I don’t think, outside of the forum world, it really hurt them that much. On here it gave a few people an excuse to jump all over them but, when you looked into their history, it was generally the same people who had already made up their mind and were already posting negative comments on every Bremont thread.

[paw3001]

Unfortunately, no. The claim for in house movement was in the same order of magnitude as Tag’s. The marketed history is very much ‘fake’ as well in as much that it can be what they want it to be, with no objective ground. Whether that is important to anyone or not is of course a matter for each one of us. I didn’t buy my speedmaster because the same model had been in space. But I would not have bought it if Omega had falsely claimed it had. Some old fashioned belief that marketing may show a product under its most flattering light but it still needs to be truthful.

Yes I agree their claim was naïve at best and at worst dishonest. However, they did make numerous components for that movement and they said sorry and have learnt a hard lesson as that mistake killed the Wright Flyer which was an excellent watch with or without the history. I just don’t see or hear people banging on about Tag’s behavior which I see as worst due to the lower value of the base movement and their position in the market!

We will have to agree to disagree as there are people out there that would disagree about the Omega speedmaster history as they claim we haven’t been to moon and therefore it’s claim to be the moon watch are fake!

I just don’t see the need to keep ripping the company apart. If you don’t like them fine, I don’t like Breitling but I don’t go on and whine about them on every Breitling thread that pops up like some people seem to do.

[tz-uk73]

Talking of truths, i’m wearing an omega speedmaster today that proudly states on the case back that it’s the first and ONLY watch worn on the moon. Is that true, hell no! Do I hate the brand for it, hell no, i’ve just bought a new seamaster.

[RAJEN]

The animosity against Bremont predates the movement fiasco.
It is just being used as a convenient excuse.
If someone doesn’t like a brand, it is fine.
To make false excuses is kind of sad.
They are well made. Expensive but well made.
Anyone who says they aren’t is not being truthful.
One may not like the size or design or the price tag- that is understandable.
But people who hate/dislike Bremont for other reasons or claim to do so need to do some soul searching.

[oldoakknives]

At the risk of being flamed again, should we all boycott the brand that falsely claimed to have produced the first automatic watch?

Yes it was a huge error of judgement from Bremont but I don’t think, outside of the forum world, it really hurt them that much. On here it gave a few people an excuse to jump all over them but, when you looked into their history, it was generally the same people who had already made up their mind and were already posting negative comments on every Bremont thread.

Rather like some people posting negative comments on every Rolex thread perhaps? Every brand would seem to have their fair share it seems!

[Saint-Just]

We will have to agree to disagree as there are people out there that would disagree about the Omega speedmaster history as they claim we haven’t been to moon and therefore it’s claim to be the moon watch are fake.

1) you will not find many threads praising TAG here.
2) You also have people who claim the earth is flat. That doesn’t discredit GMT watches. In any case, I mentioned space, not the moon as I don’t believe that model went to the moon (X33)

[stix]

I remember handling one of the simple three handed models some years ago at a gig I was doing and I have to say, the overall quality was average. I wasn't impressed at all even though I like some of their recent incarnations. I'm not put off by the "in-house" fiasco but for the money, there are far too many alternatives I prefer before I would entertain a Bremont, for now at least.

[ataripower]

I have had quite a few Bremont watches over the years, probably around 6-7 and enjoyed all of them but only for short bursts. They always seem to get moved on the end. I love the brand though and keep a close eye on their progress and will one day find a Bremont keeper.

[dougair]

I have had quite a few Bremont watches over the years, probably around 6-7 and enjoyed all of them but only for short bursts. They always seem to get moved on the end. I love the brand though and keep a close eye on their progress and will one day find a Bremont keeper.

Yes, looking forward to see how they progress and a true U.K. designed and built in house movement will be very interesting to see.

[endo]

The animosity against Bremont predates the movement fiasco.
It is just being used as a convenient excuse.
If someone doesn’t like a brand, it is fine.
To make false excuses is kind of sad.
They are well made. Expensive but well made.
Anyone who says they aren’t is not being truthful.
One may not like the size or design or the price tag- that is understandable.
But people who hate/dislike Bremont for other reasons or claim to do so need to do some soul searching.

Agree, i was going to post something along the same lines earlier, the “in-house” debacle just added more flame to an already raging fire.

Those that don’t like the brand or their offerings should move on, the whole industry is smoke and mirrors afterall.

[helidoc]

Do we want our luxury watch choices to be limited to Rolex, Breitling, Swatch, Richemont and LVMH? I know I don’t.

Any new entrant to the market is going to have to use outsourced movements for a long time, and won’t have the economies of scale of the big manufactures, so that can make them look expensive. They can develop compelling products with a combination of:

Great design
Top quality with their cases components
Customer service
Brand values you identify with

I don’t like all their stuff by any means, their range is too big and the stuff with embedded fragments leaves me very cold, but some of their designs are truly great, such as the MB and ALT-ZT

There case work is excellent, and having compared their ALT chronographs against an IWC pilot chronograph, I would rate Bremont’s cases as far better, and much more interesting. Their early dials weren’t very good, but compare an early ALT1-Z, with the Supermarine or ZT, you can see the progress.

If they were capitalised by a rich parent such as Panerai with Richemont, they could produce anything. I like independents, and at their stage of development they are doing just what I expect.

It’s a brand that tells stories, but that’s to get your monkey brain, the one that likes stories, to over rule logical you and make you buy it. They are in the business of selling stuff, and you can’t blame them for that!

They add interest and diversity to the market, and they make two models I would like to own, although they are number three on my purchase list.

I’m fairly positive about them and their future.

Dave


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[Saint-Just]

Those that don’t like the brand or their offerings should move on, the whole industry is smoke and mirrors afterall.

Oh, but we do.

However, excuse me for voicing my opinion when someone asks a question like the OP. I believe my answer has as much value as yours, even if we come to a different conclusion. And I don't feel the need to tell you to buy (another?)one and move on.

[endo]

Oh, but we do.

However, excuse me for voicing my opinion when someone asks a question like the OP. I believe my answer has as much value as yours, even if we come to a different conclusion. And I don't feel the need to tell you to buy (another?)one and move on.

touch a nerve?
We live in a free part of the world, so fortunately you have freedom of choice, but there is always a disproportionate amount of drum banging in any Bremont thread (as per my original post...funny that part is missing?)

Don’t worry yourself, fortunately I can buy what I like.

[Saint-Just]

touch a nerve?
We live in a free part of the world, so fortunately you have freedom of choice, but there is always a disproportionate amount of drum banging in any Bremont thread (as per my original post...funny that part is missing?)

Don’t worry yourself, fortunately I can buy what I like.

As this is watch talk, I'll wish you all the best for 2020 and may you enjoy the watches you fancy.

[zen123]

Is this the Bremont you speak of?
It is my one and only Bremont and I will echo all the comments regarding build quality in particular the case hardening. It shows no sign of wear at all.
Surely we buy these pieces of jewellery because we like them no matter what the name on the dial? Or at least I feel that is what we should try and do!
Perhaps if they became unavailable or in short supply everyone would want one.


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Beauty. I tried one on, if only it was smaller. My puny wrist couldn't pull it off.

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[verv]

I don't think I'll ever own one. They just dont do anything for me although the supermarine is a nice looking watch.

The branding does put me off because it's so heavy on the military stuff which bears no relation to me whatsoever so its almost made bremont incongruent to civilians in a weird kind of way.

[RobDad]

I think the military angle is what puts me off more than anything. I’ve never served, and don’t have any Walter Mitty pretensions so not really my thing. I do remember being in Selfridges watch room 15 years ago (?) just after they’d launched and trying on a couple - and being shocked that they were priced at the same level as a Rolex GMT Master at about £2300, and couldn’t get my head round it. I’m no longer interested in spending thousands on watches so in truth I can’t see me buying another Omega, Tudor, Rolex or Bremont. I am curious about their servicing etc though. One of the things I liked about Rolex was the ‘St James’ experience if there was an issue - as I live in the U.K., what are their turnaround times on a service etc? - much better than eg Omega or Rolex? - this can affect my buying decisions - eg I’ve flipped Sinn and Japanese Market Seikos in the past due to servicing woes, is Bremonts customer service very good?


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[oldoakknives]

I don't think I'll ever own one. They just dont do anything for me although the supermarine is a nice looking watch.

The branding does put me off because it's so heavy on the military stuff which bears no relation to me whatsoever so its almost made bremont incongruent to civilians in a weird kind of way.

It's the military connection that puts me off a bit as well. Rather like the Citizen Red Arrows watch for me I'm afraid. Unless of course you are actually in the Red Arrows! Although strangely enough I don't see it as a problem collecting ex military issue watches. I wonder why?

[RAJEN]

FWIW, we hear plenty of stories here on the forum itself how servicemen and ex-servicemen are keen to buy Bremont watches. Just says something about the connection.

[Dynam0humm]

I am not familar with this aspect ? What was the lie about the in-house movement?

They announced a new in-house movement designed and developed in the UK but it soon transpired that it was actually a modified La Joux-Perret calibre. Much backtracking, editing of press releases and wiping egg off face ensued.

https://www.ablogtowatch.com/real-st...atch-movement/

[Saint-Just]

FWIW, we hear plenty of stories here on the forum itself how servicemen and ex-servicemen are keen to buy Bremont watches. Just says something about the connection.

May be this says more. https://www.bremont.com/pages/military-watches

Rolex also had a Comex collection. The difference being they were issued, of course.

Air France regularly asks watchmakers to create a special edition, reserved to AF personnel. a few years ago, it was Dodane (that had watches issued to the French Air Force, the 'Type 21'), with 3 models. Recently, it was a B&R GMT. Guess what? My Cousin, who's a captain on Airbus has both the Dodane GMT and the B&R, the later one I saw this Christmas. Apparently they sold out in a few days.

In other words, cater to a specific market, give it some exclusivity (you cannot purchase in shops), and those who can afford it and who are considering buying a watch will naturally turn to the model.

About Dodane, the GMT was created specifically for Air France. Cedric Dodane said at the time that they would eventually release it to the general public (without the AF markings, of course) but it is still not done.

They have other partners, too: http://www.dodane1857.com/partenariat/

It is obvious that creating this sort of association can be lucrative. In this respect, B&R and Bremont are quite similar, having created the association out of thin air. It's called marketing. It works if the association tickles your fancy.

[CriticalMass]

The branding does put me off because it's so heavy on the military stuff which bears no relation to me whatsoever so its almost made bremont incongruent to civilians in a weird kind of way.

Yet lots of people wear a Submariner when they’ve never been in a submarine in their lives....and the watch has never been deeper than a jacuzzi.

[robert75]

This thread makes me want a Bremont, any good discounts out there to be had?

[Alansmithee]

This thread makes me want a Bremont, any good discounts out there to be had?

This came up on the xmas bargain thread:

https://www.francisandgaye.co.uk/bre...BIIBKOR-p13563

[learningtofly]

Yet lots of people wear a Submariner when they’ve never been in a submarine in their lives....and the watch has never been deeper than a jacuzzi.

What's a Submariner got to do with a submarine?

I quite like some of the Bremont designs, but not enough to buy one. They're too expensive for what they are, and I don't find the marketing strategy - and the intended demographic - very inclusive.

[peterdo]

I have bought from Chisholm Hunter previously, great service, have cracking deals in two of their better LEs, the Endurance is a peach and I like the Waterman also:

https://www.chisholmhunter.co.uk/sal...nufacturer=236

Rox is my normal AD for Bremont, they also have really good discount on the Alt1 and U2 with blue dials, really nice watches:

https://www.rox.co.uk/sale/watches


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[Christian]

FWIW, we hear plenty of stories here on the forum itself how servicemen and ex-servicemen are keen to buy Bremont watches. Just says something about the connection.

Yes, popular with the military aircrew because there is such a huge military discount. Judging by the comment, I guess that investment in marketing works!

[peterdo]

I have bought from Chisholm Hunter previously, great service, have cracking deals in two of their better LEs, the Endurance is a peach and I like the Waterman also:

https://www.chisholmhunter.co.uk/sal...nufacturer=236

Rox is my normal AD for Bremont, they also have really good discount on the Alt1 and U2 with blue dials, really nice watches:

https://www.rox.co.uk/sale/watches


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Rox also has a Boeing Model 1 with a white dial which is pretty nice as well


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[helidoc]

It is obvious that creating this sort of association can be lucrative. In this respect, B&R and Bremont are quite similar, having created the association out of thin air. It's called marketing. It works if the association tickles your fancy.

I agree about B&R and Bremont, although the French company are less obvious about the military thing. The do have a lot of watches with “military” in the name, but that is more about what has inspired them. Breitling have been doing the squadron / unit customisations for years.

Dave



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[CriticalMass]

What's a Submariner got to do with a submarine?
.

Nothing at all. Except for the name of course.

[verv]

Yet lots of people wear a Submariner when they’ve never been in a submarine in their lives....and the watch has never been deeper than a jacuzzi.

Not the same thing at all.

[dougair]

Very much like Bell & Ross they are a better proposition during a sale period than a purchase at full price.

Not really if you don’t like B&R. The price is irrelevant if it’s not something you want. B&R does nothing for me.

[Nealywheelie]

I'm wearing my Bremont Alt1/P as I type & I don't care about all of the negative opinions on this thread, I love this watch to bits. And yes I've had a glass of wine or three, but it's still Christmas and I love my Alt1/P to bits. I know I've had a drink or two but I love my Bremont to bits & I'll be wearing her when I go to bed tonight.
All I would say to those who have voiced their 'blattering' opinions, just walk into an AD, sit down and ask to see one in the 'flesh' you may be quite surprised!

Goodnight & thank you.

[Saint-Just]

The first B&R were rebadged Sinn.

This one (mentioned above, stock photo) was honestly not bad at all



P.S.: I forgot Sinn (and probably more) in the list of watchmakers that did a special edition for AF.

[peterdo]

The first B&R were rebadged Sinn.

This one (mentioned above, stock photo) was honestly not bad at all



P.S.: I forgot Sinn (and probably more) in the list of watchmakers that did a special edition for AF.

I like a lot of the B&R with the circular dial, the square dial is marmite, I try hard to like it but it’s just not for me, although the bronze with the green dial on SC is trying to change my mind!


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[Saint-Just]

I like a lot of the B&R with the circular dial, the square dial is marmite, I try hard to like it but it’s just not for me, although the bronze with the green dial on SC is trying to change my mind!


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I use to vomit the square 'instrument' watch. But it made them instantly recognisable from a distance, which is great when you're trying to build a brand. And with time I must admit it has grown on me. I don't find them revulsive anymore. Not to the point I would buy one, though.

The Panerai Luminor has grown on me too, that 40 mm in SC would have tempted me if it wasn't at Christmas time when I am completely spent out.

[murkeywaters]

I really should own a certain Bremont as it sports my name but every time one comes up cheap I still cant drop the cash, one day!!

[helidoc]

Bremont, and some of the other brands discussed make much more sense at something like a 30% discount. It’s a good time of year to look for bargains!

D


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[Middo]

I use to vomit the square 'instrument' watch. But it made them instantly recognisable from a distance, which is great when you're trying to build a brand. And with time I must admit it has grown on me. I don't find them revulsive anymore. Not to the point I would buy one, though.

The Panerai Luminor has grown on me too, that 40 mm in SC would have tempted me if it wasn't at Christmas time when I am completely spent out.

Panerai don't get a ribbing for a movement scandal, wonder thy that is?

[Lampoc]

Yes, popular with the military aircrew because there is such a huge military discount. Judging by the comment, I guess that investment in marketing works!

Yep, I got a massive discount on my "military" Bremont - I don't think I'd have bought one otherwise. Cracking watch though and after-sales service was excellent: when a movement holder screw came loose inside, Bremont sent a next day courier to pick it up and I had it back again pretty sharpish.

Gratuitous my Bremont pic:

[earlofsodbury]

They announced a new in-house movement designed and developed in the UK but it soon transpired that it was actually a modified La Joux-Perret calibre. Much backtracking, editing of press releases and wiping egg off face ensued.

https://www.ablogtowatch.com/real-st...atch-movement/

OK, granted, that's a well-aimed shot at one's own foot - albeit one which seems to stem from a failure of communication between technical and marketing wonks.
Yet, how many of the Sacred Cows have long been using movements "adapted" from the designs of others, ancient and modern and representing them as All Their Own Work?
Watchmaking technology is evolutionary, not revolutionary, so there's nothing new under the Sun, and it is technically demanding - meaning certain components will always be better made by specialists than in-house. Such is the nature of contemporary manufacture.
Does anyone seriously consider, for example, that Land Rover's new Defender will be covered in Slovakian flags - its advertising bumf extolling its proud central-European heritage? Of course not - it'll be slathered in fake pomp & circumstance and Union Jacks in much the same way as BMW's absurd "Mini" (which admittedly is at least made here... For now.)
Time to forgive, forget and move-on, IMHO.

[dougair]

Yep, I got a massive discount on my "military" Bremont - I don't think I'd have bought one otherwise. Cracking watch though and after-sales service was excellent: when a movement holder screw came loose inside, Bremont sent a next day courier to pick it up and I had it back again pretty sharpish.

Gratuitous my Bremont pic:

Watchfinder have the Tornado mb at £17.5k!

[Lampoc]

Watchfinder have the Tornado mb at £17.5k!

That's an "ejection" special - only able to be bought by those who have ejected in a Martin-Baker seat. You can tell by the red ring.

[Christian]

I'm wearing my Bremont Alt1/P as I type & I don't care about all of the negative opinions on this thread, I love this watch to bits. And yes I've had a glass of wine or three, but it's still Christmas and I love my Alt1/P to bits. I know I've had a drink or two but I love my Bremont to bits & I'll be wearing her when I go to bed tonight.
All I would say to those who have voiced their 'blattering' opinions, just walk into an AD, sit down and ask to see one in the 'flesh' you may be quite surprised!

Goodnight & thank you.

Great photo and a lovely watch. The only Bremont I’d be tempted to buy.

[Middo]

Watchfinder have the Tornado mb at £17.5k!

Red barrel though, but utter madness.

[dkpw]

No I did read your posts and replied as intended. I suggest you have a look at the 10 years of posts I've made and all the brand's I've bought and considered. And then I suggest you extract your head from where you obviously keep it, journey to your nearest Bremont dealer and buy one and then enjoy the depreciation.

I enjoy watches, be they Casio, Citizen, Rolex, Smith's for what they are. I don't feel the need to aspire to "grandee status" whatever you think that is.

Thanks for the advice, but you haven’t bothered to read my posts, just make a catty comment instead. I buy watches I like, hence why I have a wide collection from different brands, one of which is Bremont.

If I want to satisfy my need for horological grandee status, I will wear a Royal Oak or Vacheron, you stick to your Casio!


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[robert75]

Panerai don't get a ribbing for a movement scandal, wonder thy that is?

You are joking right? The brand got utterly torn to shreds at the time just do a google search!

[M4tt]

I admire the brand for successfully following the Rolex playbook, a feat that virtually no other brand has managed. There's astute branding, placement and all that combined with the fact that, like Wilsdorf, the owners come across as decent chaps while gently playing a just a little fast and loose with the facts of the matter. I'd be surprised if this was a coincidence and, frankly, being decent chaps is more than mere brand development. I expect to see a foundation looking after stray animals and women of good repute all the way to Sonning Lock any time soon.

However, at Bremont's prices there's always something else that offers far more without trying so hard, and its rare I'll say this, but if I were about to shell out on a new Bremont I'd far rather spend it on a second hand Rolex, or perhaps a Breguet XX or Speedmaster.

[jalebi]

Same thing that applies to a lot of brands, Bremont in particular: not a great value proposition. If there were priced at Christopher Ward levels (or even 2x CW levels) it'd be a different case entirely. But given that CW have true in house movements at watches in the early £1000s (on sale), it's hard to justify £3K on a Bremont. I like them, but at a third of the price.

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[peterdo]

No I did read your posts and replied as intended. I suggest you have a look at the 10 years of posts I've made and all the brand's I've bought and considered. And then I suggest you extract your head from where you obviously keep it, journey to your nearest Bremont dealer and buy one and then enjoy the depreciation.

I enjoy watches, be they Casio, Citizen, Rolex, Smith's for what they are. I don't feel the need to aspire to "grandee status" whatever you think that is.

You’re a lovely chap, I definitely will look through your 10 years of posts as you must know more than anyone else about everything to do with watches, because you’re just fantastic.

Read your own post back, if I want heritage in a watch, which is what you were alluding to, with your reference to the Casio, then I will revert to premium mechanical watches, as I also have access to those.

I will be going to my AD in January actually, for another overpriced Bremont, as I like them, I like them even more now that I know specimens like you don’t


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