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Thread: Advice on car damage

  1. #51
    Grand Master Chris_in_the_UK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skier View Post
    And that's my point. Why react so viscerally to something that is so easily rectified?
    To many, complete originality is what they cherish.

    People are different (thankfully) and to some it matters, to others less so.

    If I had a 4.0 GT3 I would be pretty miffed TBH.
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  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skier View Post
    And that's my point. Why react so viscerally to something that is so easily rectified?
    Because in their mind, the damage has been done and is not so easily rectified. A different, not wrong, perspective.

  3. #53
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    Nobody seems bothered about the little boys scooter just the GT3 damage but there you go. Just to add, I know somebody who very recently bought a new GT3 and if his car was damaged through no fault of his own he would be livid, by any stretch of the imagination they are not a normal car and I can fully understand anybody being more than a little precious about it.

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris_in_the_UK View Post
    To many, complete originality is what they cherish.

    People are different (thankfully) and to some it matters, to others less so.

    If I had a 4.0 GT3 I would be pretty miffed TBH.
    It's a very modern GT3 not a vintage car. If you're that precious about something then perhaps an expensive car is not for you. It's a bit like keeping a safe queen watch but using it regularly and getting annoyed when it gets scratched. I liken it to Nick Mason's 250 GTO that has to be worth £30M plus and he still rags it around Goodwood most years. The various scrapes and more haven't devalued it one iota.

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skier View Post
    It's a very modern GT3 not a vintage car. If you're that precious about something then perhaps an expensive car is not for you. It's a bit like keeping a safe queen watch but using it regularly and getting annoyed when it gets scratched. I liken it to Nick Mason's 250 GTO that has to be worth £30M plus and he still rags it around Goodwood most years. The various scrapes and more haven't devalued it one iota.
    I value what I own - nothing wrong with that?

    I own a Porsche.

    I do not do safe queen's, but when it's damaged it's my fault not somebody else's.

    Using Nick Mason's car is a disingenuous - it is a race car with race car history etc.
    Last edited by Chris_in_the_UK; 14th December 2019 at 23:08.
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  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skyman View Post
    Because in their mind, the damage has been done and is not so easily rectified. A different, not wrong, perspective.
    But the damage is very easily rectified by any good body shop; it matters little whether it's a Porsche, Ferrari or Ford. If minor damage elicits the response outlined by Ryan then perhaps a prestige car is not for that individual. This is reinforced by the fact that the guy's initial emotive anger has been tempered by the realisation that it's not that big a deal and he's apologised.

  7. #57
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    He is not 'taking the piss', it's a GT3 not some golf or fiesta.

    Can't believe some people. Also if the damage is as superficial as you are suggesting, the inspection will unearth nothing.

    Just say sorry and pay for the damage.
    Quote Originally Posted by ryanb741 View Post
    Thanks guys

    I've taken the pics already, I did offer to pay for a proper fix at Porsche (it is a GT3) but i'm refusing his wish for a full examination by Porsche as the Scooter is a child's one around a metre tall and maybe 2 kilos in weight - his is taking the piss.

    Quick check with a legal friend apparently i don't need to pay anything as it was an accident and not wilful criminal damage or anything that is hugely unavoidable and in any case the Terms and Conditions of the car park specifically state everything is at owners' risk which sets the precedent. I want to keep on good terms with the neighbour and felt my offer to make a full repair was generous but he wants to push the envelope somewhat.....
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  8. #58
    It's not a Fiesta or Golf but is a GT3 more expensive to fix than a more humble Porsche?

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kingstepper View Post
    It's not a Fiesta or Golf but is a GT3 more expensive to fix than a more humble Porsche?
    Humble?
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  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris_in_the_UK View Post
    I value what I own - nothing wrong with that?

    I own a Porsche.

    I do not do safe queen's, but when it's damaged it's mu fault not somebody else's.

    Using Nick Mason's car is a disingenuous - it is a race car with race car history etc.
    I also value what I own but I'm not overly precious about it. I value relationships and friendships far more. I don't own a Porsche (I don't like them) but I do own an Audi RS6 and Audi A4 and a Range Rover. My point is that if you react so badly to damage to a car then perhaps you shouldn't buy that particular car. If the expense of repair is the issue, you've bought a car you (potentially) can't afford, if it's the emotional pain of damaging something pristine then you shouldn't drive it and park it in a climate controlled garage. The real world of car ownership is that there will be occasional accidents and scrapes regardless of how expensive your car is; accept it.

  11. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skier View Post
    But the damage is very easily rectified by any good body shop; it matters little whether it's a Porsche, Ferrari or Ford. If minor damage elicits the response outlined by Ryan then perhaps a prestige car is not for that individual. This is reinforced by the fact that the guy's initial emotive anger has been tempered by the realisation that it's not that big a deal and he's apologised.
    Once it's resprayed it's not totally original any more and much like a watch its never as it was.
    That said it was an accident and the guy sounds like a decent sort and after a brief hissy fit has settled down.

  12. #62
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    I would be much more picky about which place to take something like a GT3 than a standard family car.

    They would most likely take more time and charge more for time and also the materials are likely to cost more too.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kingstepper View Post
    It's not a Fiesta or Golf but is a GT3 more expensive to fix than a more humble Porsche?

  13. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by Sibo View Post
    I would be much more picky about which place to take something like a GT3 than a standard family car.

    They would most likely take more time and charge more for time and also the materials are likely to cost more too.
    Wasn't asking about a family car.

  14. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skier View Post
    I also value what I own but I'm not overly precious about it. I value relationships and friendships far more. I don't own a Porsche (I don't like them) but I do own an Audi RS6 and Audi A4 and a Range Rover. My point is that if you react so badly to damage to a car then perhaps you shouldn't buy that particular car. If the expense of repair is the issue, you've bought a car you (potentially) can't afford, if it's the emotional pain of damaging something pristine then you shouldn't drive it and park it in a climate controlled garage. The real world of car ownership is that there will be occasional accidents and scrapes regardless of how expensive your car is; accept it.
    It's not my issue, and it's not my car.

    My point was that I sympathise with the situation (from both sides). Most people who own 'nice cars' have worked hard to own them and are entitled to be bothered when this kind of thing happens.
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  15. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris_in_the_UK View Post
    It's not my issue, and it's not my car.

    My point was that I sympathise with the situation (from both sides). Most people who own 'nice cars' have worked hard to own them and are entitled to be bothered when this kind of thing happens.
    That’s a perfectly fair response. What would likely piss me off more than the scratch is a father who didn’t give a s***. But, try to work it out before getting annoyed.

  16. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sibo View Post
    He is not 'taking the piss', it's a GT3 not some golf or fiesta.

    Can't believe some people. Also if the damage is as superficial as you are suggesting, the inspection will unearth nothing.

    Just say sorry and pay for the damage.

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    Think you'll find I did offer to pay and did apologise for what was an accident and for something I'm not legally obliged to pay for anyway, but I chose to do the right thing and do so anyway and at a Porsche dealer so he maintains his paint warranty. What 'can't you believe' about that?!!? What I refused to do is pay for an unnecessary full inspection by Porsche as it would end up picking up a load of stuff that is totally unrelated to this incident. As I'm paying it is MY call what I pay for not his, as long as it is related to the incident proportionally and doesn't leave him in a worse position than before the accident. It is NOT an opportunity to itemise every little nick and scratch as I'm sure I'd end up paying for alloy repairs and damage non related to the incident as his front bumper is so ridiculously low it must get annihilated on speed bumps etc. If I knocked into you and one of your teeth fell out I would offer to pay for dental treatment. I would not however expect to pay for a full health check and MRI scan.

    Anyway if you'd read the thread through you'd see it had all been resolved. Not sure what you 'can't believe', it was a trivial mark and I did the right thing by letting him know instead of what most people would do which is do nothing and just walk away.

    Anyway he has spoken to the garage and sent pics (no formal inspection yet) and it looks like a £500 job, that's at a Porsche approved.

  17. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris_in_the_UK View Post
    It's not my issue, and it's not my car.

    My point was that I sympathise with the situation (from both sides). Most people who own 'nice cars' have worked hard to own them and are entitled to be bothered when this kind of thing happens.
    Those who own a Ford Focus or BMW 3 series have worked hard for them, probably just on a different pay scale; I don't differentiate. It's the emotional and psychological response I simply don't understand. It's a car, nothing more.

  18. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kingstepper View Post
    Wasn't asking about a family car.
    Go ask your local OPC.

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  19. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skier View Post
    Those who own a Ford Focus or BMW 3 series have worked hard for them, probably just on a different pay scale; I don't differentiate. It's the emotional and psychological response I simply don't understand. It's a car, nothing more.
    Leave it at this - we disagree.
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  20. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by Sibo View Post
    Go ask your local OPC.

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    No idea what that is.

    Not important but thought someone here might have a sensible answer.

  21. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kingstepper View Post
    No idea what that is.

    Not important but thought someone here might have a sensible answer.
    OPC is official Porsche centre AKA dealership.

    GT products cost a lot more to purchase and assume will cost a fair amount more for repairs.

    I've never owned something like that so can't say for sure.

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  22. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by Sibo View Post
    OPC is official Porsche centre AKA dealership.

    GT products cost a lot more to purchase and assume will cost a fair amount more for repairs.

    I've never owned something like that so can't say for sure.

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    Thanks! Cost more to purchase yes, but probably same paint. Maybe bigger bumper?

  23. #73
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    OP - well done for leaving your details and sorting it out. 9 out of 10 people would have just walked away and the car owner would not notice for a while - and given the small amount of damage, not even know when or where it happened.

  24. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by ryanb741 View Post
    Think you'll find I did offer to pay and did apologise for what was an accident and for something I'm not legally obliged to pay for anyway, but I chose to do the right thing and do so anyway and at a Porsche dealer so he maintains his paint warranty. What 'can't you believe' about that?!!? What I refused to do is pay for an unnecessary full inspection by Porsche as it would end up picking up a load of stuff that is totally unrelated to this incident. As I'm paying it is MY call what I pay for not his, as long as it is related to the incident proportionally and doesn't leave him in a worse position than before the accident. It is NOT an opportunity to itemise every little nick and scratch as I'm sure I'd end up paying for alloy repairs and damage non related to the incident as his front bumper is so ridiculously low it must get annihilated on speed bumps etc. If I knocked into you and one of your teeth fell out I would offer to pay for dental treatment. I would not however expect to pay for a full health check and MRI scan.

    Anyway if you'd read the thread through you'd see it had all been resolved. Not sure what you 'can't believe', it was a trivial mark and I did the right thing by letting him know instead of what most people would do which is do nothing and just walk away.

    Anyway he has spoken to the garage and sent pics (no formal inspection yet) and it looks like a £500 job, that's at a Porsche approved.
    It's your comments about the damage that you're not legally obliged to pay for and it reads as though you're doing the owner a favour by paying for it.

    Where has common decency and honesty gone. I appreciate you spoke to him and told him what happened which was good if you but it was your kid that did it at the end of the day, any normal person would see the responsible thing would be the parents sorting it out assuming you could and you were able to afford it of course.

    And remember the owner has done nothing wrong, his car has been damaged and will no longer be original through no fault of his own. Also resale value has possibly been affected.

    Also, looking at your analogy about knocking a tooth out, that's possibly just a tooth that's been knocked out but could also be a fractured jaw, possible head injury, c spine fracture etc and would need investigating before any treatment is planned.
    Last edited by Sibo; 14th December 2019 at 23:54.

  25. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kingstepper View Post
    Thanks! Cost more to purchase yes, but probably same paint. Maybe bigger bumper?
    Again, go ask your local OPC.

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  26. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ethos View Post
    OP - well done for leaving your details and sorting it out. 9 out of 10 people would have just walked away and the car owner would not notice for a while - and given the small amount of damage, not even know when or where it happened.
    Not sure the company you keep if you think 9 out of 10 people would have just walked away.

  27. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by Sibo View Post
    Again, go ask your local OPC.

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    Again I assume someone on here must know because 'GT3' is quoted as if it will be expensive.

  28. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sibo View Post
    It's your comments about the damage that you're not legally obliged to pay for and it reads as though you're doing the owner a favour by paying for it.

    Where has common decency and honesty gone. I appreciate you spoke to him and told him what happened which was good if you but it was your kid that did it at the end of the day, any normal person would see the responsible thing would be the parents sorting it out assuming you could and you were able to afford it of course.

    And remember the owner has done nothing wrong, his car has been damaged and will no longer be original through no fault of his own. Also resale value has possibly been affected.

    Also, looking at your analogy about knocking a tooth out, that's possibly just a tooth that's been knocked out but could also be a fractured jaw, possible head injury, c spine fracture etc and would need investigating before any treatment is planned.
    I see what you are saying but I disagree in so far as someone having an expensive car can be argued to be a risk to the financial health of the population if the population is potentially personally liable for paying for accidents. Someone on a low salary who accidentally damages a ferrari, if they had to pay out of their own pocket would have to pay a lot more than of they had hit a fiesta. So one could argue that owners of expensive cars are putting other people at financial risk. The upshot is that this is what car insurance is for and in this instance I chose to do the right thing and can afford to do so but for many people an expensive car represents a financial hazard for them if an accident (non car crash) happened and the argument is that they should not have to suffer because somebody chose to buy a very expensive car

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  29. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by ryanb741 View Post
    I see what you are saying but I disagree in so far as someone having an expensive car can be argued to be a risk to the financial health of the population if the population is potentially personally liable for paying for accidents. Someone on a low salary who accidentally damages a ferrari, if they had to pay out of their own pocket would have to pay a lot more than of they had hit a fiesta. So one could argue that owners of expensive cars are putting other people at financial risk. The upshot is that this is what car insurance is for and in this instance I chose to do the right thing and can afford to do so but for many people an expensive car represents a financial hazard for them if an accident (non car crash) happened and the argument is that they should not have to suffer because somebody chose to buy a very expensive car

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    This is why I wrote if they could afford the repair. If someone damaged my car, I'd expect them to pay for it via their insurance or privately same as if I damaged their car. But I'd leave it and sort it myself if they couldn't afford it or were poor or had a low income or whatever and insurance wouldn't cover it like in this case. You don't want to cause anyone misery or sleepless nights!

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  30. #80
    Sounds like it turned out ok in the end. I can understand why people get attached to inanimate objects but not worth getting upset over (all imho, I appreciate we are all different) - What happens when you get an inevitable stone chip, tree sap, bird crap or someone opens their door onto a wing in a Car Park? Imho cars are exposed to the elements and flying debris, potential damage from the minute they leave the factory. I understand wanting to keep a valuable car pristine, but life has a way of applying a bit of ‘wabi sabi’ !


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  31. #81
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    First question when buying any specialist car is, does it have a full history.

    Second question is has it been in an accident

    Third question is it all original.

    If the answer is no to any of these then the second hand price can effected.

    If its the same car as the Ryan posted a picture of in the Porsche thread, it's a metallic silver which can be a bugger to match properly.

    Hopefully everyone will be happy with the outcome.

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  32. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by RobDad View Post
    Sounds like it turned out ok in the end. I can understand why people get attached to inanimate objects but not worth getting upset over (all imho, I appreciate we are all different) - What happens when you get an inevitable stone chip, tree sap, bird crap or someone opens their door onto a wing in a Car Park? Imho cars are exposed to the elements and flying debris, potential damage from the minute they leave the factory. I understand wanting to keep a valuable car pristine, but life has a way of applying a bit of ‘wabi sabi’ !


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    Many owners spend £2-5k getting cars wrapped in order to protect them. They don't park them under trees, they use covers, have air conditioned garages with dehumidifiers, they don't park them in shopping market/multi-storey car parks because they have other cars for this sort of thing, etc, because to them
    condition and originally is everything.

    Why, because a ragged, repainted unloved 964RS can be bought for around £110k if you lucky. An original clean one about £175k, a minter around £250k+.

    Its the same with rare watches. Just look at the difference between a vintage NOS Rolex safe queen Vs a beaten up one with a 44m serial number case, replacement dial and hands and an aftermarket insert.

    Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
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  33. #83
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    Advice on car damage

    There are numerous Porches, Lamborghinis and the odd Ferrari parked in the secure parking where I live. There’s even a gorgeous mint condition’68 Mercedes 250 SL.

    90% are mint with the majority covered whilst not being used (there are even some covers I’ve not seen under since I moved here).

    There is even guidance from the home owners association on prescribed pathways to walk through the parking area.

    I sure these owners are very precious about their vehicles.

    As for the other 10%, they seem to be daily drivers for those owners that simply see a car as a lump of metal.

  34. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by Saint-Just View Post
    Well considering there was video evidence, in this case it certainly was.
    OP, speak to your home insurance if it’s much more expensive than you thought.
    The owner may not have spotted the damage for days later and assumed it happened somewhere else and took it on the chin like most of us do. It’s difficult to admit fault these days when there are so many people so willing to exploit a potential vulnerability to feed their own limitless narcissism and victim hood. It’s only a car.


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  35. #85
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    I bought a 3yr old 205gti as my first decent car and loved it. Within 6 weeks some scrote dragged a nail across 4 panels and I learned that if you're driving or parking your pride and joy in public then you must accept it might be damaged. Porsches or similar are no more special than any other car, as it's the owner's mentality that determines how precious the vehicle is to them. In reality it's just a chunk of mental and plastic that's fully repairable. Glad to see the owner recognised his initial reaction was unreasonable, albeit understandable.

  36. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by deepreddave View Post
    I bought a 3yr old 205gti as my first decent car and loved it. Within 6 weeks some scrote dragged a nail across 4 panels and I learned that if you're driving or parking your pride and joy in public then you must accept it might be damaged. Porsches or similar are no more special than any other car, as it's the owner's mentality that determines how precious the vehicle is to them. In reality it's just a chunk of mental and plastic that's fully repairable. Glad to see the owner recognised his initial reaction was unreasonable, albeit understandable.
    No car is more special than any other car?

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  37. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sibo View Post
    No car is more special than any other car?

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    It's all relative.

  38. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by wileeeeeey View Post
    It's all relative.
    That's what Isaac Newton said
    "Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. The third time it's enemy action."

    'Populism, the last refuge of a Tory scoundrel'.

  39. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sibo View Post
    No car is more special than any other car? TZ-UK mobile app
    As said ^^^ it's relative to the owner, unless we're talking about something historical or rare in which case third parties may care I suppose but it's still relative. A wealthy Saudi Sheikh might care less about a scratched bumper on one of their 20 Porsches than you or I about a similar scratch to our Ford Mondeo or vintage Morris Minor. Being precious about your car isn't reserved only for the more wealthy so I don't think the Porsche owner has a right to be more aggrieved simply because he's got a more expensive car. YMMV.

  40. #90
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    You should see the state of my cars but I just don’t understand why some people go with the “it’s just a chunk of metal” line.

    I fully understand if someone has a car they would never want repaired if it was original. I’m not precious with my cars and they rarely see a bucket of water let alone scrutiny of all the dents they’ve received from the gits in car parks but if I won the lottery and bought a new GT3 RS and it was perfect, I’d be really gutted if it had to have paint repairs.

    Try and think of a hobby/possession you have that other people would scoff at given some misfortune.

    Someone could push you into a wall by accident and scrape the case on your Patek and suddenly it’s originality has gone. 29 times out of 30 that accident could happen between two people and the damage to the daily beater watch wouldn’t be cared about.

    I’m sure we’ve all got material things we care for and grouping someone else’s prized possessions into the same group as your child/dog infested Ford Focus is ridiculous quite frankly.

  41. #91
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    IMO it’s all about decency, and your attitude.
    For yes I’d be mortified that my pride and joy was damaged through no fault of my own. But, think, was it deliberately done? No. Then think. It would of been so easy not to leave a note and just hope he got away with. So the damage is done the person has been thoroughly decent in his reaction to it. Why should I be an ass in my response?
    To me and yes this is all my beliefs and my philosophy on things. But I’d always want to react and be the way I’d want others to be with me. Ryan’s response to the incident was decent and the right thing done. Being an ass achieves nothing and risks an awkward relationship with a neighbour who I may need something off in the future.

    I guess I’m also looking at this as a parent myself and also with a mind of how much accidental damage I caused growing up playing football on my bike etc. I was always told own up it’s the best way. That is made harder to drill in when people’s reactions are to be asses!


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  42. #92
    Journeyman
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    Quote Originally Posted by deepreddave View Post
    As said ^^^ it's relative to the owner, unless we're talking about something historical or rare in which case third parties may care I suppose but it's still relative. A wealthy Saudi Sheikh might care less about a scratched bumper on one of their 20 Porsches than you or I about a similar scratch to our Ford Mondeo or vintage Morris Minor. Being precious about your car isn't reserved only for the more wealthy so I don't think the Porsche owner has a right to be more aggrieved simply because he's got a more expensive car. YMMV.
    What are you talking about, you think that a Ford Mondeo is as special as one of the best track cars in the world?

    It doesn't have anything to do with wealth. One car is a lot more special than the other and that's fact, can't argue with that.

    Try and sell your mondeo for the same price as a 991.2 GT3 and you'll find out exactly how valuable and special yours is ;)
    Last edited by Sibo; 15th December 2019 at 17:38.

  43. #93
    Master reggie747's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sibo View Post
    What are you talking about, you think that a Ford Mondeo is as special as one of the best track cars in the world?

    It doesn't have anything to do with wealth. One car is a lot more special than the other and that's fact, can't argue with that.

    Try and sell your mondeo for the same price as a 991.2 GT3 and you'll find out exactly how valuable and special yours is ;)
    Are you deliberately being argumentative here or what ??

  44. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by reggie747 View Post
    Are you deliberately being argumentative here or what ??
    I think he must be

  45. #95
    Having had one of my cars hit by others on multiple occasions when parked up causing a fortune's worth of damage without so much as a note left kudos to you OP for voluntarily doing the right thing.

    Sounds like it's all going to be resolved as it should - amicably

  46. #96
    Grand Master wileeeeeey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sibo View Post
    It doesn't have anything to do with wealth. One car is a lot more special than the other and that's fact, can't argue with that.
    Do you have any birthdays coming soon? Sounds like you could do with growing up.

  47. #97
    Grand Master Griswold's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sibo View Post
    What are you talking about, you think that a Ford Mondeo is as special as one of the best track cars in the world?

    It doesn't have anything to do with wealth. One car is a lot more special than the other and that's fact, can't argue with that.

    Try and sell your mondeo for the same price as a 991.2 GT3 and you'll find out exactly how valuable and special yours is ;)
    Perhaps, if one were fortunate to afford such a car and if one were precious about it, then it would be better to park it in a garage rather than a shared area where it just might get damaged?

    All credit to the OP for being honest about this and being prepared to pay for the damage caused, many wouldn't.
    Best Regards - Peter

    I'd hate to be with you when you're on your own.

  48. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hood View Post
    Not sure the company you keep if you think 9 out of 10 people would have just walked away.
    I just know the number of small dings our cars have accumulated over the last 10 years parked in supermarket or other public car parks - with no notes left. I wish the world was a nicer place - but I'm just stating facts.

    No need to resort to insults because someone has a different point of view.

  49. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by wileeeeeey View Post
    Do you have any birthdays coming soon? Sounds like you could do with growing up.
    That's like you saying no watch is more special than any other watch?

    I'm not the one struggling to comprehend basic principles. Sounds like you need to go back to school.
    Last edited by Sibo; 16th December 2019 at 07:24.

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