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Thread: Dealer promised history - update

  1. #1
    Master AlphaOmega's Avatar
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    Dealer promised history - update

    Hello all

    Bought a car for a member of the family.

    I bought it from a main dealer. The car was originally sold by them, and recently serviced by them but the intervening history was at an independent.

    The main dealer said it had full service history and they could get the intervening history from the independent for me.

    I've chased the main dealer for two months and now they are saying they can't get the intervening history due to the GDPR. I've tried to contact the independent but they have said they won't provide it.

    Thoughts on my options?

    Thanks in advance.

    AO
    Last edited by AlphaOmega; 10th February 2020 at 11:01.

  2. #2
    Master
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    Do you have the advert in writing where it states the history?
    There is an argument that the car will be devalued with the lack of it so I guess you could ask for the difference to be refunded.

  3. #3
    Craftsman
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    Contact the previous owner, ask nicely and they may help?


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  4. #4
    Master
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    My dad often contacts the previous owner to see if they have any more history on the vehicle.



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  5. #5
    Master petethegeek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by T1ckT0ck View Post
    Contact the previous owner, ask nicely and they may help?
    I've done this a couple of times in the past and always received a courteous and usually helpful response.

    PS To the best of my knowledge I'm no relation to bloater.

  6. #6
    Master
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    And how exactly do you contact the previous owner? The dealer wonít now by law pass that on and in fact many destroy any documentation such as service history that identifies previous owners.

  7. #7
    Craftsman
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    Quote Originally Posted by Padders View Post
    And how exactly do you contact the previous owner? The dealer wonít now by law pass that on and in fact many destroy any documentation such as service history that identifies previous owners.
    The DVLA stopped putting previous owners details in the "logbook", so I agree, it's tricky to find previous owners now.

  8. #8
    Craftsman
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    I had that with my last car trying to find out when the cambelt was done the garage would only discuss it with me if I bought in the car log book with my name on it

  9. #9
    Master AlphaOmega's Avatar
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    ^Thanks all.

    Ok perhaps I could take the V5 with me to the independent or the previous owner (which is where the GDPR issues seem to be surfacing). I'm tempted to ask the main dealer to take the car back but that seems like a lot of hassle as it's not expensive. It will make the car more difficult to resell though so there is a financial impact.

  10. #10
    Master
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    No much you can do.

    I you like the car you could push for a couple of free services as a good will gesture and / or a refund to bring the price in line with a car without full history. There is also an option to go to the small claims route too.

    If itís likely to have a significant impact come sale time then you could try and reject the car but obviously that come with its own issues and might take some doing.

    Quite possibly not what you want to hear but think about how much you value your time and consider how much of it youíre willing to throw at this if the seller doesnít play ball

  11. #11
    Master AlphaOmega's Avatar
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    Hadn't considered the option of suggesting servicing as a quid pro quo, Captain. Thanks.

  12. #12
    Master
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    No bother, itís likely to be the path of least resistance but I suggest you need to make it clear your unhappy and are fully considering rejecting the car.

    Let us know how it goes

  13. #13
    Craftsman
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    Quote Originally Posted by Padders View Post
    And how exactly do you contact the previous owner? The dealer wonít now by law pass that on and in fact many destroy any documentation such as service history that identifies previous owners.
    It does appear that previous owner details no longer appears on the V5c.

    So my advice was out of date.


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  14. #14
    Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by T1ckT0ck View Post
    It does appear that previous owner details no longer appears on the V5c.

    So my advice was out of date.


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    It’s ridiculous isn’t it. An unintended consequence perhaps from the GDPR. I would say being able to contact a previous owner is a fairly important safety consideration in some cases, not just to confirm routine service history, eg has a vital safety modification been made or not?

  15. #15
    Master petethegeek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Padders View Post
    Itís ridiculous isnít it. An unintended consequence perhaps from the GDPR. I would say being able to contact a previous owner is a fairly important safety consideration in some cases, not just to confirm routine service history, eg has a vital safety modification been made or not?
    Or to return a minidisc (remember those) which had been left in the player.

  16. #16
    Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlphaOmega View Post
    Hello all

    Bought a car for a member of the family.

    I bought it from a main dealer. The car was originally sold by them, and recently serviced by them but the intervening history was at an independent.

    The main dealer said it had full service history and they could get the intervening history from the independent for me.

    I've chased the main dealer for two months and now they are saying they can't get the intervening history due to the GDPR. I've tried to contact the independent but they have said they won't provide it.

    Thoughts on my options?

    Thanks in advance.

    AO

    I did not think that GDPR reduces your rights to know (and protect your rights (verification of a condition of sale)) merely moved them around - maybe the lawyers on here could refute or confirm.....but


    Instead of a section 35 request under the DPA wayback the GDPR consequence now entails a request under :

    Schedule 2, Part 1, Paragraph 5 of the DPA 2018 - the new relevance.

    B

  17. #17
    Master PhilipK's Avatar
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    You can get details of the previous owner of a car by filling out a V888 form.

    https://www.gov.uk/government/public...bout-a-vehicle

    You'll need to pay and to complete a Data Protection Act ("reasonable cause") section stating why you want the information. I have been successful using wording along the lines of "I recently purchased this vehicle and I wish to confirm the vehicle's mileage and service history with the previous owners", which satisfied these DPA requirements. (Note that you must not use the information for any other purpose).

  18. #18
    Master AlphaOmega's Avatar
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    ^Thanks - the legal aspects are particularly useful to me.

    I have just sent a warning shot across the bows of the dealer and my next step will be to pursue a more formal approach.

  19. #19
    Master TKH's Avatar
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    GDPR has been a real pain for Dealers (32 years a dealer until July)

    ok so the Indy A..won't provide because invoices have name + address ?....or B..can't provide (does not hold records?)

    A..if its the 1st ...i.e. they are worried about GDPR breach they just need to 'anonymise' the data .....we would typically print off duplicates put label over address etc then photocopy and give to you......a personal visit will make a big difference IMHO...

    B..if its that they have no records then you need to get selling dealer to contact previous owner to obtain....but many a time prior owner has nothing or worse has been telling porkies and never had it serviced or done by self or mate but the dealer having gotten their new car taxed and ready instead of pressing for hard documents / evidence buckles.

    my advice for what its worth visit the INDY be nice...beg = result 9 times out of 10. = box of chocolates or box of 12 Donuts (we like Krispy Creme)......

  20. #20
    Master AlphaOmega's Avatar
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    Love the Krispy Kreme approach.

    A trip to the supermarket beckons!

  21. #21
    I have not purchased a new car in nearly 20 years and the last car I purchased was 3 years old when I purchased it 9 years ago This came with a small pack containing a service book. Are service books still given?

  22. #22
    Master IAmATeaf's Avatar
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    Canít say for all but for my car the dealer holds the service history as does the car/key. But this isnít without its faults, took my car in for a service a few months ago and the online history showed that my car had had previous work done which meant that under the purchased maintenance plan they wouldnít do anything else without me having to pay for the work. Told them to check again and they then agreed that there was some sort of issue with their online service history.

  23. #23
    Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by prexelor View Post
    I have not purchased a new car in nearly 20 years and the last car I purchased was 3 years old when I purchased it 9 years ago This came with a small pack containing a service book. Are service books still given?
    Certainly not with the Mazdas that we have all online.

    My Lexus and motorbike (s) still have service books.

    B

  24. #24
    Go onto the MOT history website- wouldnít surprise me if the garage that did the MOTís in the time period you need the service history for also did the servicing.


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  25. #25
    Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by NIGE UK View Post
    Go onto the MOT history website- wouldnít surprise me if the garage that did the MOTís in the time period you need the service history for also did the servicing.


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    He knows the garage that did the servicing.


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  26. #26
    Craftsman
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    Chances are it either doesn't have FSH or they never had it in the 1st place. Just because they are main dealers doesn't mean they aren't full of blag I'm afraid.

  27. #27
    Master AlphaOmega's Avatar
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    Update.

    Ok, the dealer is taking the car back.

    They're going to make a deduction for mileage covered, which seems reasonable. However, they're using a standard mileage fee which they say is set by trading standards. This is apparently 20p a mile.

    I can't seem to find this online - does it sound ok?

    TIA

  28. #28
    Grand Master Chris_in_the_UK's Avatar
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    http://cardealermagazine.co.uk/forum.../1245-refunds/

    Quote Originally Posted by AlphaOmega View Post
    Update.

    Ok, the dealer is taking the car back.

    They're going to make a deduction for mileage covered, which seems reasonable. However, they're using a standard mileage fee which they say is set by trading standards. This is apparently 20p a mile.

    I can't seem to find this online - does it sound ok?

    TIA
    When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........

  29. #29
    Master AlphaOmega's Avatar
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    ^Thanks Chris.

    Sounds like the 20p per mile charge is reasonable then. Although the thread you've linked to talks about wear and tear, which I imagined was covered off by the mileage charge. Now I'm wondering if they're going to try and add a charge on top for wear and tear as well...

  30. #30
    Grand Master Saint-Just's Avatar
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    How many miles are we talking about?
    Cars are usually sold with a near empty tank. Will he refund your tank's content?

    At the end of the day, you're returning the car because it was not as described, not because you changed your mind and he's doing a commercial gesture.
    Don't take my silence for agreement. I've just realised you're too stupid to argue with.

  31. #31
    Master AlphaOmega's Avatar
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    It's a few thousand miles IIRC as this has dragged on for many months while they continually promised to get the history.

    Not too worried about fuel as I'll give it back at a similar level but hoping the mileage charge would be a proxy for wear and tear. The car is in 99% the same condition as it was bought in but if it's reasonable for them to deduct for tyre wear etc. on top then it could be another area of potential disagreement.

  32. #32
    Grand Master Chris_in_the_UK's Avatar
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    .If they have suggested 20p per mile and not raised any additional charges, I would accept this (personally)

    Quote Originally Posted by AlphaOmega View Post
    ^Thanks Chris.

    Sounds like the 20p per mile charge is reasonable then. Although the thread you've linked to talks about wear and tear, which I imagined was covered off by the mileage charge. Now I'm wondering if they're going to try and add a charge on top for wear and tear as well...
    When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........

  33. #33
    Grand Master Saint-Just's Avatar
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    You said it was a cheap car. A few thousands miles times 20p is a multiple of £200 so not insignificant for a car that was not as described.
    I understand you donít want this to drag on but you only raked up the miles because of their promise to fulfil the sale as it was described so not exactly your choice.
    Don't take my silence for agreement. I've just realised you're too stupid to argue with.

  34. #34
    Grand Master
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    If you're happy with the car you're in danger of cutting your nose off to spite your face, you still have to find another car!

  35. #35
    Journeyman
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    Late to this, but Iíve had a similar experience and the milage adjustment table that should be used is published in the trade guide ( Cap or Glasses) Parkerís guide is not too far different.

    The milage adjust depends on vehicle type and engine, etc.

    The guides will typically say what the adjustment should be per 1000 miles +/-

  36. #36
    Master AlphaOmega's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris_in_the_UK View Post
    .If they have suggested 20p per mile and not raised any additional charges, I would accept this (personally)
    That's what I'm thinking although I'm certain there will be an inspection, so I'll double check whether the mileage charge will be just one constituent of an overall fee.

    Quote Originally Posted by Saint-Just View Post
    You said it was a cheap car. A few thousands miles times 20p is a multiple of £200 so not insignificant for a car that was not as described.
    I understand you donít want this to drag on but you only raked up the miles because of their promise to fulfil the sale as it was described so not exactly your choice.
    Yes, you're right, proportionally it's a significant percentage of the value.

    Think I'll paraphrase your wording if it turns out there will be a list of additional charges on top of the mileage fee.

  37. #37
    Master AlphaOmega's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by walkerwek1958 View Post
    If you're happy with the car you're in danger of cutting your nose off to spite your face, you still have to find another car!
    Yes, another good point. However, I have a rule not to buy cars without full service history, and it would bother me if this isn't resolved reasonably.

    Quote Originally Posted by joe narvey View Post
    Late to this, but Iíve had a similar experience and the milage adjustment table that should be used is published in the trade guide ( Cap or Glasses) Parkerís guide is not too far different.

    The milage adjust depends on vehicle type and engine, etc.

    The guides will typically say what the adjustment should be per 1000 miles +/-
    Thanks - will check those.

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