Reply With QuoteI have my Submariner serviced by Rolex Service Centre and will continue to do so.
I think that RSC refinish sympathetically, never considered that they have gone overboard in this respect
Hi,
I'm based in in the south east and looking to get my 16600 sympathetically brushed/polished. The watch have very sharp edges on the lugs so obviously want to keep these and the the bracelet shows no previous signs of refinishing at all. I've heard a lot of people saying that Rolex go overboard when refinishing and I would like to keep it as original as possible. Any suggestions in the Sussex are would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks
Last edited by Spesh; 14th December 2019 at 21:24.
I have my Submariner serviced by Rolex Service Centre and will continue to do so.
I think that RSC refinish sympathetically, never considered that they have gone overboard in this respect
I've never seen, or heard directly of RSC doing a bad or over polished refinish.
You see lots of examples of older watches that have it - but RSC have, and know how to use a lapping machine and to maintain sharp edges before final finishing.
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Thanks for the responses. I also have the flat 4 bezel insert and as it is not pristine I'm concerned about that being replaced with a pointy 4 insert although I imagine this only happens if you have a full service?
Surely you can tell them not to replace it? Remind yourself who owns the watch!Originally Posted by Spesh
Send a detailed covering letter with it, or contact RSC by phone when the watch goes in. I`m sure the correct communication will get you what you want.
Personally I`d prefer a nice new bezel insert and a freshly refinished watch.......never understood all the fuss about flat 4s etc, they all look alike to me and there's a good reason for that, it's because they're a very minor detail.
I have just heard stories of owners being very specific regarding what features they want to retain and ending up with a rather different result. Whilst the flat 4 bezel may not be something that bothers you, to me it is how my watch came from the factory and I want to keep it that way, after all are minor details not part of what makes people so passionate about different models? Each to their own I guess....
Reminds me of all that fuss concerning red font on old Subs and SD's, just send em into Rolex and have them swap those crappy old dials over for a nice shiny new one with proper lume etc. It's only a minor detail after all.
Boring boring vintage sports Rolex.......yada yada yada. The watches are OK, but the detail - obsessed culture that’s developed around them has gone way beyond sensible.
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Don’t be so bloody sarcastic
Wow, condescending responses abound
I get both sides of the argument as having a clean sparkling watch is nice, but one thing is for sure, originality is key to value.
If your watch has never been polished then it will never be more original than it is now.
Agreed. 100%.
Don't be so bloody opinionated. Just because the finer aesthetic detail of a watch is unimportant to you, doesn't mean it should be to the OP, or anybody else for that matter. A minor detail to one collector is a more significant one to another. Your initial response exhibits a degree of inverse snobbery, which is never attractive, and some might argue was borderline arrogant.
^^^THIS........ was over that borderline...
I think the over polishing thing has got some people terrified of having their watches touched by anyone, but I honestly think you are safe with Rolex doing the work. I get the flat four bezel insert thing and certainly you need to retain that. In the case of the LV that can be the difference of a few thousand pounds.
It might be madness to the likes of Paul, but it is the market.
You could ask Rolex if they would let you buy a new insert whilst retaining the older one. If not, then certainly instruct them not to change it.
This is a classic case of never knowing what is the best to do.
If you have an old watch it is nice to have it on your wrist looking like new, I can fully understand that.
I can also understand trying to keep an old watch original, especially the dial.
But now it seems to have gone way over the top with watches having faded bezels and scratched up lens being in vogue.
I suppose the best way to think of it is old men like to wear old watches that look as knackered as they do.
[QUOTE=walkerwek1958;5273093]Boring boring vintage sports Rolex.......yada yada yada. The watches are OK, but the detail - obsessed culture that’s developed around them has gone way beyond sensible.
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Don’t be so bloody sarcastic[/Q
Has spoken........... prices will tank now.
There are plenty of poor examples out there, watches that have been spoiled by poor refinishing work that’s ruthlessly removed metal to get rid of marks and damage, I can spot them easily and they have little appeal. However, over the past few years, the logic has become a flawed and all refinishing is treated with distain by the purists, who worship their interpretation of originality.
Lets not fool ourselves, a 20 year old watch covered in scratches and minor dings doesn’t look like it did originally, brushed/ grained finishes develop a shine through wear and the sharp contrast between polished and brushed/ grained is lost. Everyone’s now been conditioned to get a warm feeling over this because ‘it’s original’ tgat’s what ‘the market’ values.........it may be untouched but that isn’t my definition of original, the watch bears little resemblance to the item the first owner walked out of the shop with.
I think we’ve reached a situation where owners of Rolex models are reluctant to have watches refinished because they fear they’ll devalue them. If the work is done wrongly I agree, but not when its done properly. Many people have a limited understand of how refinishing work is carried out, so they’re likely to err on the side if caution and be influenced by the ‘don’t touch it ‘ brigade.
Any challenge to what seems to have become accepted wisdom amongst Rolex owners (and fanboys) us met with derision, they just don’t want to hear it, and they can become very touchy.
Enjoy your flat 4s, scruffy bezels and battered old watches.......someone has to!
And some people just don't care about scratches and like it as it is. I just had a speedmaster serviced, and was asked if I wanted the case refinished. My reply was no. Not because of fashion trends or value, but because I don't care about the condition of the case, and I'd only go and scratch it up again within no time. As many will attest, a watch with scratches can lead to greater enjoyment because you're not spending your time worrying about that first scratch.
Not that any of this discussion has anything to do with the OPs question.
Clearly I am not against refinishing to restore a watch otherwise I wouldn't have started this thread, but I'm wary of it being returned to me lacking some of the details that initially drew me towards it. The beautifully chamfered edges of the lugs on the 5 digit SDs are one of these features. I have seen Subs and SDs that have been polished to the extent that they look like they have the case profile of an old Datejust, which to me just ruins the watch completely.
As for your comments regarding flat 4s and scruffy bezels, my particular watch is actually in very good condition with only one or two minor marks to the bezel and insert (barely visible). My concern is that Rolex would take the view that they are either out of date or not 100% perfect and therefore replace both against my will. We all love particular visual details that our watches possess and in many cases I suspect it isn't possible to quantify why (although in this case my flat 4 bezel matches the flat 4 on the date wheel). For me it doesn't even come down to future value as this is not a watch that envisage I will ever part with. I really don't see the point in commenting if your just basically going to say "forget the aspects of the watch that you enjoy and accept whatever is returned to you".
And as for being sarcastic and condescending.....what's the point?
Last edited by Spesh; 14th December 2019 at 18:49.
One question that no-one can answer is why Rolex aren`t consistent with minor details such as flat 4s etc., why did these minor changes ever happen? My guess is that they change suppliers, or the items are made in batches and anomalies creep in. What I struggle to understand is why these anomalies become so important to everyone? The watch doesn't change its appearance, the differences are subtle and can only be seen if you really look.
I have a different perspective from many on here because I work on watches and handle parts, and its not unusual to see minor differences. Omega SMPs from the late 90s onwards are a good example, there are numerous minor differences if you know where to look, but it doesn`t seem to matter to anyone.
it does seem to be predominantly a Rolex thing, folks look for minor details and making a big deal about them. I`m an avid watch collector too, I like things to be 'right', but not to the extent that the Rolex folks seem to.
For me, the yardstick any watch should be measured against is how it looked on the day it was bought, minor ageing of the dial and hands is OK, that's genuine patina, but I would never tolerate scruffiness in the name of originality, that seems silly to me. A bezel insert with a few minor marks on is fine, but once it reaches the stage where it lets the watch down it's better replaced with a sharper one. Likewise with the finish on the case and bracelet. That's how it used to be in the past and to me it made a whole lot of sense.
My vintage watches look sharp and fresh, that's how I like 'em, fortunately I've got the capability to refinish and restore them myself without relying on others.
I wouldn't do it this way...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=woH-px64FjM
Does it though? Speedmaster DN90 bezel insert immediately springs to mind which is probably the most minor of visual details.
And wouldn't describe myself as "Rolex folk". Infact the 16600 is the only Rolex that really interests me. The rest of my collection is comprised of other brands
Last edited by Spesh; 14th December 2019 at 19:24.
The Speedmaster cult has mimicked the Rolex vintage sports thing in many ways, even dafter in my opinion. Much as I like vintage Omegas I won't go near old Speedys, I dislike them.
I personally like to leave a case unpolished as it can never go back to original and we see so many Rolex cases that have thinner lugs due to the loss of metal.
With maturity comes the ability to appreciate the experiences, views and desires of others, even if they don’t align completely (or even at all) with your own.
People enjoy this hobby for different reasons and in different ways. I’m baffled why anyone would join this forum if they are unable to accept that.
I have read threads where after servicing at Rolex, watches have come back like brand new and subsequently the owners do not want to wear them. I think I would be the same and may skip the polish at service time.
However, I think I would feel more comfortable taking the watch directly to RSC and discussing my requirements. I am sure that Rolex quotes service items as compulsory or optional (or something along these lines) and so you could decline a new insert for example. The polish I think is either a yes or no with no scales ie a light polish only.
Do you have any photos?
Here are some images. The bracelet took the most punishment when I was knocked off my bike. The case and bezel did rather well in comparison....
Read this without looking at the poster but knew straightaway who’d posted...you don’t get vintage...we get it 😂
I do get vintage, I’ve got a very nice collection of vintage watches including probably the best 16013 Rolex Datejust on the Planet. Also own some excellent vintage Omegas, some restored by me and some not. Don’t try fitting me into a pigeon hole.
Last edited by walkerwek1958; 15th December 2019 at 01:51.
Personally, based on those pics, I wouldn't bother. Adds a little character to the watch IMO, unless you don't want to be reminded of the incident of course.Here are some images. The bracelet took the most punishment when I was knocked off my bike. The case and bezel did rather well in comparison....
But to be clear if you use RSC for a refinish, you will get back a very carefully refinished job with minimum metal removal, and they will 100% return it with perfect bevels on the shoulders - they lap those on as a final job.
So much is this reliably done that when the main service centre was in Bexley and other service centres did not use lapping machines, this post service sharp bevel being returned to new was termed the 'bexley bevel'.
If you send it to RSC, you won't see thinned lugs etc. They would advise unable to refinish these days instead.
Remember, 20 years ago when most of these 'over polished' examples first had a service, no one cared about these details, or ever thought they would be important in the future. The modern day refinisher takes a different approach now.
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This is a good post RSC example...
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I’m saddened by how aroused I am by this. I must get out more.This is a good post RSC example...
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Definitely worth getting the marks out of the bracelet, that's a straightforward task.
A question for the Rolex experts: when these models come back from RSC refinishing, they have the bevel present on the edges, but were they done like this from new?
Getting rid of chips and dings on edges can be difficult if its a straightforward sharp right angle, but having this bevel gives the refinisher more latitude. If the edge is a sharp right angle you can`t work directly on the edge, that's a no-no, so metal has to be taken off from each flat surface. this sounds drastic, but if you're taking scratches out of the top and sides there will be some metal removal (we're talking a few microns, not mm!) and if the right technique is used any minor dings on the edge will disappear. However, if the edge has a bevel that gives 3 flat surfaces to work on and there's more chance of losing the damage.
All this counts for nothing if the owner doesn`t want the watch to look sharp and new again, which suits some folks but not others. What you can`t do is treat a watch roughly and have a deep refinish every 5-6 years, I reckon most watch cases will take one deep refinish in their lives without looking like they've been on a diet, much as I like to see watches looking fresh and sharp I`m aware that it's a one-way process. Some case designs lend themselves to refinishing better than others, the current Rolex range with fatter lugs have plenty to go at!
I have grown to appreciate the patina of watches, Collecting a couple of vintage Speedmasters has really changed my outlook about age related marks versus a polished case, yes it’s ridiculous when you prefer a marked up but original case but that’s what makes it interesting to me, if every watch was perfect it would be a bit boring wouldn’t it?
Don’t get me started on DON bezels, 24 point crowns, original spear tip chrono hands and double bevel case backs, the learning curve of vintage watches is steep but very interesting - to me anyway!
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