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Thread: Poor Man's Credor Eichi II?

  1. #1

    Poor Man's Credor Eichi II?

    Inspired by the surprising amount of hate on the other thread, I thought I would ask, which other watches exist that are similarly simple, clean, well executed, but don't cost £40k?

    There are lots of nice watches out there and even quite a few nice dress watches, but does anything else get that clean minimalism right? The closest I can think of is the Junghans Max Bill. But that's very distinctively Bauhaus, not quite as ruthlessly minimal and precise. Nor does it have the same striking level of contrast between its elements. Mondaine have the contrast, but are not refined at all.

    What else is there?

  2. #2
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    Anordain do some sleek enamel dials.


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  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by stoo14 View Post
    Anordain do some sleek enamel dials.
    Their execution is very "microbrand" to put it politely. Nomos are that style done well (minus the enamel). I hope they continue to refine what they are doing, but right now the designs just aren't quite there yet.

  4. #4
    Master ryanb741's Avatar
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    Ming? When their more simple watches are available.

    JLC Master Control can be had at 30% off at least. Nice watches although not at GS level let alone Credor (but priced accordingly). Movado Museum.

  5. #5
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  6. #6
    Master helidoc's Avatar
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    Poor Man's Credor Eichi II?

    Apologies, should have gone on the Credor thread

    D

    Credor, a very independent choice.

    If I wanted a simple but finely executed watch, I would almost certainly go for something like this Vacheron. The boutique editions seem to have a more interesting dial texture. Having said that, Iím not sure such a simple watch is what the top tier brands are really about, an essentially simple thing mechanically, but a lot of finesse.





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    Last edited by helidoc; 4th December 2019 at 00:19.

  7. #7
    Grand Master abraxas's Avatar
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    On the affordable end I'd say Nomos but for some reason people don't like them... so they are good bargains on the second hand market.

  8. #8
    Master JackW's Avatar
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    If you're looking for a genuinely affordable watch, a Seiko Dolce may work. The current sacm171 has the austere look you're after, diashield coating and an 8J HAQ movement for a few hundred pounds.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by abraxas View Post
    On the affordable end I'd say Nomos but for some reason people don't like them... so they are good bargains on the second hand market.
    Yeah, probably one of the closest things I can think of too. However, their designs tend to be quite playful, with all the pastel colours etc. The interesting thing about the Eichi II is that it's quite starkly minimal, but manages to have a lot of warmth and refinement. Which is to say there are some quite starkly minimal tool watches, but there's nothing toolish about the Eichi II, nor does it date itself with contemporary design flourishes. It's simple, classic, nothing unnecessary.

    The Vacherons above are nice, but I'm not sure they fall into the "poor mans" category even if I'm keeping that definition quite loose to mean "reasonably attainable" if not necessarily restricting it to the "affordable" category. If 30% of an Eichi II territory was attainable, I'd probably be looking at an ALS Saxonia Thin. Sadly, I'd say that's still firmly in grail territory:



    Still, in spite of the price, these don't manage to achieve the balance of refinement and contrast of the Eichi II. I think it's because almost all dress watches have applied indices and I don't think I've ever seen a white dial with blued markers (hands yes, but not markers). It seems that painted or printed dials are more common on vintage dress watches, but those don't tend to be minimalist: they usually have Roman numerals at a minimum. It is a bit easier to get the combination of minimalism and contrast with a blue or black dial, although this loses one element of formalism for a dress watch.

    Actually, thinking about this some more, I realised that I already own something that kinda meets my own criteria in design terms, but it's way too far on the "poor man" side lacking the quality of execution. Skagen SKW6446:



    Skagen design tends to be quite sharp, but they look and feel cheap up close. These are also a bit large compared to traditional dress watches. On the plus side they are extremely thin and there's no unnecessary second hand to give away the quartz movement.

    So we've covered the < £100 bracket and the > £10,000 bracket but surely there must be more options in between?

  10. #10
    Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by abraxas View Post
    On the affordable end I'd say Nomos but for some reason people don't like them... so they are good bargains on the second hand market.
    I love Nomos but they are relatively rare. I've been waiting forever for an Orion 309 to come along. Not sure they lose that much on the secondary market either.

  11. #11
    Journeyman
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    Quote Originally Posted by robt View Post
    So we've covered the < £100 bracket and the > £10,000 bracket but surely there must be more options in between?
    Right in between, the 40mm Tresor...



    https://www.omegawatches.com/en-gb/w...43513402102001

  12. #12
    I'd take an FPJ CB over the Credor every time. It's just better-looking IMO, and quite well made as well.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CFCv4-lg2MU

  13. #13
    Grand Master Der Amf's Avatar
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    Wrong thread, calm down

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by ryanb741 View Post
    Ming? When their more simple watches are available.

    JLC Master Control can be had at 30% off at least. Nice watches although not at GS level let alone Credor (but priced accordingly). Movado Museum.
    JLC is always my first thought when people ask about simple and clean watches.

  15. #15
    Why worry about a poor manís version of a delusional manís version of ALS?

  16. #16
    https://www.dornblueth.com/configurator

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  17. #17
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    Gutted to have missed these two 'budget' Hajime Asaoka offerings that were available to pre-order a couple of weeks ago. Simple, clean, well-executed and enough change out of £40k to still buy a pre-owned Credor. Probably.




    Similarly, his earlier affordable offering keeps drawing me back to ogle:




    Or the Moser / Chronopassion Platinum Concept collaboration at £24k:

    Last edited by gcleminson; 4th December 2019 at 14:14.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by gcleminson View Post
    Or the Moser / Chronopassion Platinum Concept collaboration at £24k:

    That's rather nice, but a bit too minimal, perhaps? Those earlier ones are a totally different style, but very cool.

  19. #19
    Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by robt View Post
    That's rather nice, but a bit too minimal, perhaps?
    That's precisely why I like it. No visible branding (other than the Moser design language) and a stunning dial that's allowed to be the main attraction.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by abraxas View Post
    On the affordable end I'd say Nomos but for some reason people don't like them... so they are good bargains on the second hand market.
    Really? I always found Nomos to be very popular especially on forums and can be found on most of the usual online retailers (Including amazon) some at a significant discount. I personally dont like Nomos as a brand, nothing to do with the style of watches.

  21. #21
    Breguet do a range of enamel dial watches which are stunning.

    https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/br...al-introducing

    Half the price of the Credor, from one of the most historic brands in the world.

  22. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by proby24 View Post
    Breguet do a range of enamel dial watches which are stunning.

    https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/br...al-introducing

    Half the price of the Credor, from one of the most historic brands in the world.
    Tutima have the Patria in steel for about 4-5K with an in house movement and enamel dial.

  23. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by proby24 View Post
    Breguet do a range of enamel dial watches which are stunning.

    https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/br...al-introducing

    Half the price of the Credor, from one of the most historic brands in the world.
    Since a few people are getting caught up in the enamel aspect rather than the design (in which respect you can't really compare the Breguet with the Credor at all), it's worth pointing out that the Seiko Presage enamel range exists at a considerably more affordable price point:

    https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/se...on-introducing

    Not quite the same standard of movement as the Breguet, but beggars can't be choosers (at least, they can't have everything). I don't have one of these, but do have an Urushi one. It's got a couple of very special things going for it, aside from being excellent value for money, which I'd imagine these are too. However, these really conjure up more of a vintage pocket watch vibe than razor sharp minimalism. Same thing with the Urushi: the roman numerals give it a slightly dated feel. Which is fine for what it is, but that's a very different thing than whatever the Eichi II is.

    One of the nicest touches about my Presage (I'm not sure if the Enamel ones are the same but I expect they are) is that the half-moon at the end of the second hand passes precisely over the O in SEIKO, so that it covers up one half of the letter. If I look at the time and it's about to do that I pretty much always watch it. That's the kind of subtle attention to detail that sets the best designs apart from the run of the mill.

  24. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by robt View Post
    Since a few people are getting caught up in the enamel aspect rather than the design (in which respect you can't really compare the Breguet with the Credor at all), it's worth pointing out that the Seiko Presage enamel range exists at a considerably more affordable price point:

    https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/se...on-introducing

    Not quite the same standard of movement as the Breguet, but beggars can't be choosers (at least, they can't have everything). I don't have one of these, but do have an Urushi one. It's got a couple of very special things going for it, aside from being excellent value for money, which I'd imagine these are too. However, these really conjure up more of a vintage pocket watch vibe than razor sharp minimalism. Same thing with the Urushi: the roman numerals give it a slightly dated feel. Which is fine for what it is, but that's a very different thing than whatever the Eichi II is.

    One of the nicest touches about my Presage (I'm not sure if the Enamel ones are the same but I expect they are) is that the half-moon at the end of the second hand passes precisely over the O in SEIKO, so that it covers up one half of the letter. If I look at the time and it's about to do that I pretty much always watch it. That's the kind of subtle attention to detail that sets the best designs apart from the run of the mill.
    The Presage seems an attractive watch in its own right but it is leagues below the Breguet. Hence why I suggested the Breguet in the same conversation as the Credor.

  25. #25
    Master ryanb741's Avatar
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    Credor is Noritake Porcelain not Enamel so not really the same thing

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  26. #26
    Master Skyman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by robt View Post
    Since a few people are getting caught up in the enamel aspect rather than the design (in which respect you can't really compare the Breguet with the Credor at all), it's worth pointing out that the Seiko Presage enamel range exists at a considerably more affordable price point:

    https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/se...on-introducing

    Not quite the same standard of movement as the Breguet, but beggars can't be choosers (at least, they can't have everything). I don't have one of these, but do have an Urushi one. It's got a couple of very special things going for it, aside from being excellent value for money, which I'd imagine these are too. However, these really conjure up more of a vintage pocket watch vibe than razor sharp minimalism. Same thing with the Urushi: the roman numerals give it a slightly dated feel. Which is fine for what it is, but that's a very different thing than whatever the Eichi II is.

    One of the nicest touches about my Presage (I'm not sure if the Enamel ones are the same but I expect they are) is that the half-moon at the end of the second hand passes precisely over the O in SEIKO, so that it covers up one half of the letter. If I look at the time and it's about to do that I pretty much always watch it. That's the kind of subtle attention to detail that sets the best designs apart from the run of the mill.
    As the OP on the Credor thread, I am very much in agreement with you. Most of the other watches suggested in this alternative thread have no appeal to me whatsoever. That Presage however, is decidedly interesting.
    Btw, my own search is taking me closer towards the Eichi, plus the GS SBGZ001 & 003.
    Last edited by Skyman; 4th December 2019 at 18:27. Reason: Spelling!

  27. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by proby24 View Post
    The Presage seems an attractive watch in its own right but it is leagues below the Breguet. Hence why I suggested the Breguet in the same conversation as the Credor.
    The whole point of this thread is to find something decent, but still leagues below the Credor :)

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by robt View Post
    The whole point of this thread is to find something decent, but still leagues below the Credor :)

    Then Skagen would be the perfect fit.

    £100-ish, minimalist aesthetic, superior accuracy to the (also de-facto quartz movement) in the Credor, leagues below the Credor (in price at least) and nothing Indecent afaict about them. Job done.

  29. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Satori View Post
    Then Skagen would be the perfect fit.
    https://forum.tz-uk.com/showthread.p...56#post5264656

  30. #30
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    Had seiko spb 047 while ago that time ı thought it looks like creador but a bit thicker

  31. #31
    Grand Master Der Amf's Avatar
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    If the dial on this had actually been as creamy white as it looks in this photo, if the case had not been chrome plated, and if the movement had been something other than woefully inaccurate, then there's no way I would have sold it. But I did.



    I'm glad it took as long as it did before those three things became too much.

    They were made in the mid 80s, using the tiny 09-20 movement, and they're not especially rare. 35mm and light as a feather. The case design is a total rip off of the Max Bill case, and made me realise that I should have bought the 34mm manual Max Bill, not the 38mm automatic.

  32. #32
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    Not new but £6k and change.....

    upload picture online free

  33. #33
    I have looked at an awful lot of GS and still think the SBGX209 (or older 009) makes a great fist of a poor manís Eichi.

    Sublime dial texture. No extraneous complications. Complete mastery of its chosen timekeeping system. A private pleasure.

    I have one, so will naturally be biased. But actually I think I have one because itís how it is 🤔

  34. #34
    Grand Master Griswold's Avatar
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    I guess this is relatively minimalist

    Best Regards - Peter

    I hate being bipolar, its brilliant.

  35. #35
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  36. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by optix View Post
    Errr that is like a 20k watch, so though cheaper than an Eichi, I wouldn't say a "poor man's" version....

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