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Thread: Which Speedmaster

  1. #1
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    Which Speedmaster

    I am looking for my next watch and have decided it should be a speedmaster. I have never had one before and it seems to be a watch every collector should have at least once. I have done a bit of research and just ended up confused, there are so many variations that look almost identical, but with large differences in price ( I mean why is an automatic racing cheaper than a manual moon watch?). Also the names and model numbers are very confusing. What I would like to know is, which model should I buy? budget is max. £4500 new or used doesn't matter but it has to be black dial and black bezel (bracelet or strap is not important). Since I find all of the various models almost equally attractive, which model would be :a) a sound investment, and b) a watch that speedmaster officianadoes would not look down upon.?

  2. #2
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    The Speedmaster Professional with hesalite crystal is the puristsí choice.

    The sapphire sandwich is similar but with a harder wearing glass and see through case back.

    I have the First Omega in Space, which is a winner for me. Slimmer case and sapphire crystal.

    Manual wind is the way forward with these ...

  3. #3
    Craftsman HookedSeven's Avatar
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    If you're not drawn to any particular reference then I'd personally suggest getting the classic manual wind Professional with acrylic crystal. It's never going to make you any money, but buy one lightly pre-owned or discounted and it won't cost you much money if you ever move it on. Besides that you could get one of the late tritium dialed versions that 'might' appreciate. If I had to guess one that would appreciate I'd say the GMT titanium solar impulse HB-SIA. Definitely not everyone's cup of tea as reflected in prices but that could change.

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  4. #4
    Craftsman TimeThoughts's Avatar
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    I would also second the standard hesalite speedy (the 311.30.42.30.01.005 in the modern lineup).

    Its a safe bet as they hold reasonable value and are easy to trade up from.

  5. #5
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    Standard hesalite acrylic, manual wind and with bracelet... itís much cheaper to add a strap at a later date than a bracelet.

    As for appreciation itís a tough call but Iíve got the classic on my wrist right now and Iím seeing used prices higher than what I paid new a few years back!




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    Quote Originally Posted by HookedSeven View Post
    If you're not drawn to any particular reference then I'd personally suggest getting the classic manual wind Professional with acrylic crystal. It's never going to make you any money, but buy one lightly pre-owned or discounted and it won't cost you much money if you ever move it on. Besides that you could get one of the late tritium dialed versions that 'might' appreciate. If I had to guess one that would appreciate I'd say the GMT titanium solar impulse HB-SIA. Definitely not everyone's cup of tea as reflected in prices but that could change.

    Sent from my SM-J330F using Tapatalk
    I had quick look at the HB-SIA and it's probably slightly out of my budget and I'm not too keen on the carbon fibre dial, but I do like the watchback!
    The classic professional with acrylic crystal (hesalite?) seems the most popular suggestion and I do like it, but could you tell me why it is preferable to the sapphire crystal? (I saw a new 311.33.42.30.01.002 reduced to £3250 but I don't see any reduced 311.30.42.30.01.005's)

  7. #7
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    Hesalite is what went to the moon so itís more faithful to the original moon watch, itís warmer And doesnít exhibit a white ring like the sapphire glass. Although it scratches easier it can be easily polished and it is a darn sight cheaper to replace than a sapphire crystal


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  8. #8
    Craftsman HookedSeven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lambs View Post
    I had quick look at the HB-SIA and it's probably slightly out of my budget and I'm not too keen on the carbon fibre dial, but I do like the watchback!
    The classic professional with acrylic crystal (hesalite?) seems the most popular suggestion and I do like it, but could you tell me why it is preferable to the sapphire crystal? (I saw a new 311.33.42.30.01.002 reduced to £3250 but I don't see any reduced 311.30.42.30.01.005's)
    Find a private sale HB-SIA with a motivated seller and it shouldnít be expensive at all. I think I ended up selling mine for around £3k just a year or so ago. Carbon dial is a bit of a problem for most, although in a lot of light conditions the weave essentially disappears and it looks black.

    Hesalite is the Ďoriginalí hence itís the choice of people that consider themselves purists. I think the sapphire sandwich is OK and obviously harder wearing, but I much prefer viewing the dial through hesalite as it doesnít influence how the dial looks. Certainly Iíd advise viewing them side by side and then youíll see which you prefer.

  9. #9
    Master wileeeeeey's Avatar
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    I had the original hesalite version and sold it. Too delicate for me and couldn't be bothered with polywatch all the time.

    If I ever get another it will be the sapphire sandwich. Sapphire is more practical day to day and the clear case back is lovely.

  10. #10
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    well I've narrowed it down to two, either this:311.30.42.30.01.005 or this: 311.30.42.30.01.006 I am going to have to see them in the flesh to make the final decision, but the hesalite will have to be outstanding to make me buy it instead of the sapphire (since I can get a better deal, and I do like an exhibition case back)

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by lambs View Post
    :311.30.42.30.01.005 or this: 311.30.42.30.01.006
    Bit of a numpty question, but where do you find these numbers?

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by lambs View Post
    :311.30.42.30.01.005 or this: 311.30.42.30.01.006
    Bit of a numpty question, but where do you find these numbers to identify the watch type?

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pretzel View Post
    Bit of a numpty question, but where do you find these numbers to identify the watch type?
    I found them on omega's website alongside the description of the models. They are also usually mentioned on dealers websites next to each model. I don't know what the numbers mean though!

  14. #14
    A crazy system of numbering modern Speedmasters. I doubt anyone who owns one can remember the full number. As stated, probably more of use for the website and main dealers.

  15. #15
    Grand Master GraniteQuarry's Avatar
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    Realise it's neither of your shortlist, but there's a cracking deal on a Racing here

    https://watts1858.co.uk/watches/omeg...51.01.001.html

  16. #16
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    A timely post (for me) as a Speedmaster Pro is the next watch I'll be buying (unless Eddie releases the Caribbean!)

    This is a good post for all things Speedmaster:

    https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink/top...ink_source=app


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    Last edited by sish101; 30th November 2019 at 18:39.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by GraniteQuarry View Post
    Realise it's neither of your shortlist, but there's a cracking deal on a Racing here

    https://watts1858.co.uk/watches/omeg...51.01.001.html
    this is one of the things that confuses me about speedmasters, why is that one so much more expensive than this one?

    https://www.goldsmiths.co.uk/Omega-S...86&fo_s=slisys

  18. #18
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    Iíve completely lost touch with the numbering beyond the 145.022 but I fully endorse the advice to buy the standard hesalite version. I would suggest a lightly used, current Ďbig boxí watch or a late example of the previous version (<2014). If you pay the current going rate and donít abuse it you should easily get your money back if you donít like it.
    This way you are avoiding any Ďcollectorí premium, associated with older watches, when you buy and the depreciation during ownership which is inevitable if you buy new.

  19. #19
    Master sish101's Avatar
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    I can feel both a WTB and an eBay search coming on tonight, after a few beers!

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  20. #20
    Master adesmith's Avatar
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    I went for the hesalite myself as it really does make the dial look warmer and its obviously what went up to the moon. Its a great watch, a great size and looks fantastic on leather, Nato or bracelet. Great choice.


  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by sish101 View Post
    I can feel both a WTB and an eBay search coming on tonight, after a few beers!

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    eBay after a few beers is about as sensible as drinking and driving, but at least no-one gets hurt.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by TomGW View Post
    eBay after a few beers is about as sensible as drinking and driving, but at least no-one gets hurt.
    Agreed, many years ago I bought a vintage Omega Dynamic from German eBay whilst pissed, fortunately it turned out OK......but the black dial was actually blue! Trying to translate from German to English, converting from Euros to £, whilst the auction was reaching its end, proved too much of a challenge to my beer- addled brain, I was lucky it was only the colour of the dial and strap I mixed up.

    Do your thinking before your drinking!

  23. #23
    Journeyman boris9's Avatar
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    Smaller wrist means FOIS for me. I enjoy the watch very much and it works as a sort of ďdressĒ watch. Had it a few years and I donít see it going anywhere even though I wear it fairly infrequently.


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  24. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by walkerwek1958 View Post
    Do your thinking before your drinking!
    Wise advice indeed 👍

  25. #25
    Master sish101's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wallasey Runner View Post
    Wise advice indeed
    Too late for many, I suggest!

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  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by GraniteQuarry View Post
    Realise it's neither of your shortlist, but there's a cracking deal on a Racing here

    https://watts1858.co.uk/watches/omeg...51.01.001.html
    That would be my choice as I prefer an automatic v manual wind and I have a similar version but in titanium.

  27. #27
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    I was in your shoes back in 2013-2014,but being a Paneristi means I have too much black dial watches,and I find the black dial speedy is boring...so I went with brown dial speedy instead

    a19b4cb6-0d2d-4b26-9640-ad9b8cb96eea.jpg

  28. #28
    Stepped dial ...................no question

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by peter2704 View Post
    Stepped dial ...................no question
    It might be hard to get a nice example on the OPs budget. I suppose the mid-seventies 145.022 models would be the cheapest way to get the step, but still I donít know if youíd find a good example for <4.5k.

  30. #30
    I was lead to believe the stepped dial was from 69-71 ,is this not the case? Didnt realise the price of these now ,to think i bought one 10yrs ago for 700 pounds

  31. #31
    Craftsman HookedSeven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peter2704 View Post
    I was lead to believe the stepped dial was from 69-71 ,is this not the case? Didnt realise the price of these now ,to think i bought one 10yrs ago for 700 pounds
    As I understand it the transition was within the series of 145.022 Speedmasters. The 145.022-71 always came with the stepped dial. The 145.022-74 came with either the stepped dial or a non-stepped dial. Then finally the 145.022-76 and all watches after were non-stepped.

    Prices are indeed crazy for Speedmasters, although it may have softened a bit recently. But in reality a nice original example is till going to get good money, itís the problem watches in bad condition and with wrong parts that have probably got cheaper, and who want one of those ?

  32. #32
    Mmm,you may be right but I was lead to believe that step dial was 69-71 this is what makes them a little bit more special ,Fratello watch mag on the history of Omega also confirms this.I havent seen 74/76 with step dials

  33. #33
    to be honest i think the early speedies can be all over the place(parts bin issues).Mines a step dial /hippocampus case back /1039 bracelet and 30XXXX 861 movement......but i love it

  34. #34
    Craftsman HookedSeven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peter2704 View Post
    Mmm,you may be right but I was lead to believe that step dial was 69-71 this is what makes them a little bit more special ,Fratello watch mag on the history of Omega also confirms this.I havent seen 74/76 with step dials
    Iím defrosting in the bath right now having just returned from watching my son play Sunday league football at -2 degrees. When Iím out Iíll have a look in Moon Watch Only and see what it says. Iíve certainly read somewhere that the -74 had step dials but not sure Iíve actually seen it either...

  35. #35
    Dont worry its no problem ,I can sympathise, done the cold football thing

  36. #36
    Craftsman HookedSeven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peter2704 View Post
    Dont worry its no problem ,I can sympathise, done the cold football thing
    So... Moon Watch Only clearly describes the 145.022-71 as being the last reference to have the stepped dial. The 145.022-74 is described as having a flat dial. I looked around other reference sites and found this line on speedmaster101... ďThe -74 can be found with both a stepped dial, and a domed dialĒ.

    http://speedmaster101.com/145-022/145-022-71-74-76-78/

    So itís a question of who to believe.

    Either way, a stepped-dial Speedy will command a premium as they just look better.

  37. #37
    Master murkeywaters's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HookedSeven View Post
    So... Moon Watch Only clearly describes the 145.022-71 as being the last reference to have the stepped dial. The 145.022-74 is described as having a flat dial. I looked around other reference sites and found this line on speedmaster101... ďThe -74 can be found with both a stepped dial, and a domed dialĒ.

    http://speedmaster101.com/145-022/145-022-71-74-76-78/

    So itís a question of who to believe.

    Either way, a stepped-dial Speedy will command a premium as they just look better.
    I have several stepped dial Speedmasters and one of them is a April 1974 as it has extract of archives, but the case back is 71T.

    The watch below is a July 1971 145.022-71T step dial, I purchased this a few weeks ago for £2K with a nice 1175 bracelet and 640 end links, but as you can see it has an incorrect 90's bezel for that reference that was fitted at service, Its also in dire need of a service and the hands need stabilising as they are losing paint at their base, but at the price I paid there is plenty of room to get it right and bring it back to a lovely vintage Speedmaster.


  38. #38
    Craftsman HookedSeven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by murkeywaters View Post
    I have several stepped dial Speedmasters and one of them is a April 1974 as it has extract of archives, but the case back is 71T.

    The watch below is a July 1971 145.022-71T step dial, I purchased this a few weeks ago for £2K with a nice 1175 bracelet and 640 end links, but as you can see it has an incorrect 90's bezel for that reference that was fitted at service, Its also in dire need of a service and the hands need stabilising as they are losing paint at their base, but at the price I paid there is plenty of room to get it right and bring it back to a lovely vintage Speedmaster.

    Nice buy at £2k !

  39. #39
    Master sish101's Avatar
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    Where would one find such a Speedmaster for £2K...? Would I trust eBay or are there traders you would recommend.

    I see a nice (modern) Speedmaster has come up on SC today but wondered if my money is better invested in an older model (albeit with the caveat that some later expense may follow).

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  40. #40
    Master murkeywaters's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sish101 View Post
    Where would one find such a Speedmaster for £2K...? Would I trust eBay or are there traders you would recommend.
    A lot of it is luck to be honest but there is always the gamble you have to weigh up, the older the Speedie is the more expensive the parts if you need to replace them with original parts.

    I looked at a 105.012 pre moon with papers the other day for just under £5k, it sounded like a bargain but on inspection it had the wrong case back, wrong chrono hand, wrong pushers and needed a big service, actually it looked like an original 145.012 but the papers said 105.012 and purchased 1970 so a late date for this reference, I wasn't able to see the inside of the case back to verify either way, in this case you have to weigh up what its worth in parts to get back to original if the case back verified its a 105.012.

    The case back, spear chrono hand and small pushers which would be needed to return to original are like hens teeth and your at the mercy of the seller.

  41. #41
    Master sish101's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by murkeywaters View Post
    A lot of it is luck to be honest but there is always the gamble you have to weigh up, the older the Speedie is the more expensive the parts if you need to replace them with original parts.

    I looked at a 105.012 pre moon with papers the other day for just under £5k, it sounded like a bargain but on inspection it had the wrong case back, wrong chrono hand, wrong pushers and needed a big service, actually it looked like an original 145.012 but the papers said 105.012 and purchased 1970 so a late date for this reference, I wasn't able to see the inside of the case back to verify either way, in this case you have to weigh up what its worth in parts to get back to original if the case back verified its a 105.012.

    The case back, spear chrono hand and small pushers which would be needed to return to original are like hens teeth and your at the mercy of the seller.
    I think, then, for the uninitiated like me, the modern (hesalite) Speedy is the way to go.

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  42. #42
    Master murkeywaters's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sish101 View Post
    I think, then, for the uninitiated like me, the modern (hesalite) Speedy is the way to go.

    Sent through the ether by diddling with radio waves
    If you shop around you can find something semi vintage for reasonable money, a good bet would be a 145.022 from the 80's, there is a dial with a long S + R Speedmaster font, if you can find one with a 1450/808 bracelet all the better, they also have the 861 movement and same bezel as the 70's step dials

    Here is an image of one with a more modern bracelet robbed from the net!


  43. #43
    Another option is a 3594.50

  44. #44
    Craftsman Evad3's Avatar
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    For me it has to be the ĎMoonwatchí AKA hesalite crystal and manual wind. I believe it retails at £4k


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  45. #45
    Master
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    Buy the watch you want, not what fashion suggests you should have.

    The "moonwatch" is fantastic, yet probably my least worn speedmaster. The reduced or triple dates are just much better watches given my wrist and needs. My moonwatch probably gets 1 day a month while my triple dates claim the other 30 days.

  46. #46
    Master
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    I love the caseback on this speedy

    342336-7fd6cf42d3b6a89556e3636c8fd1a9e2

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by jk103 View Post
    I love the caseback on this speedy

    342336-7fd6cf42d3b6a89556e3636c8fd1a9e2
    That does look good, never seen that before.

  48. #48
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    I had the classic hesalite moonwatch and just couldn't be bothered to wind and wear it - so sold it after three months.

    Just because something is the favourite of forums doesn't mean it's the one you should buy - buy what you actually want and what you will wear - not because someone else says you have to get the version that is associated with the moon landing for instance.

    Personally I was just underwhelmed by the professional moonwatch with its manual wind, lack of water resistance and hesalite and I wanted a more modern watch - and I don't care at all about the fact that it went into space - But that's just me. Get what you enjoy - there are no right or wrongs here.

  49. #49
    Grand Master magirus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rsteenekamp View Post
    I had the classic hesalite moonwatch and just couldn't be bothered to wind and wear it - so sold it after three months.

    Just because something is the favourite of forums doesn't mean it's the one you should buy - buy what you actually want and what you will wear - not because someone else says you have to get the version that is associated with the moon landing for instance.

    Personally I was just underwhelmed by the professional moonwatch with its manual wind, lack of water resistance and hesalite and I wanted a more modern watch - and I don't care at all about the fact that it went into space - But that's just me. Get what you enjoy - there are no right or wrongs here.
    Why did you buy it?

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by magirus View Post
    Why did you buy it?
    Yeah, clearly I bought it for the wrong reasons - because it was supposed to be 'the' speedy to own... I learned a lesson in that I should only buy something I really want to wear rather than due to hype surrounding it.

    I'm sure I will make more mistakes in the future though... can be a bit impulsive with watches sometimes...

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