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Thread: Major Event ongoing in London Bridge

  1. #101
    Craftsman HookedSeven's Avatar
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    I hit the top one of those already and just scanned the other two. I couldnít find where it says it will keep a contracted muscle in its current position. I understand it may stop motor signals, but cutting the signal surely wouldnít keep a contracted muscle contracted ? Or would it ? Iíve no idea but itís counterintuitive. Can you point me to text that shows that ?

  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by HookedSeven View Post
    I hit the top one of those already and just scanned the other two. I couldnít find where it says it will keep a contracted muscle in its current position. I understand it may stop motor signals, but cutting the signal surely wouldnít keep a contracted muscle contracted ? Or would it ? Iíve no idea but itís counterintuitive. Can you point me to text that shows that ?
    Why are you focused on the 'contracted muscle' thing?
    When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........

  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris_in_the_UK View Post
    I so miss Griff.
    Heíll be out of his bunker in a heartbeat if Corbyn Monoxide gets the keys to Number 10.

  4. #104
    Grand Master Chris_in_the_UK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seamaster73 View Post
    Heíll be out of his bunker in a heartbeat if Corbyn Monoxide gets the keys to Number 10.
    When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........

  5. #105
    Craftsman HookedSeven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris_in_the_UK View Post
    Why are you focused on the 'contracted muscle' thing?
    Because of this. This was the post I was questioning...

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve27752 View Post
    The idea of shots to the head is to destroy the brain, which 'freezes' muscle action. For example if someone is pressing down on a trigger, destroying the input from the brain would keep the switch down. Or if not on the switch would stop it being depressed. Therefore not detonating a bomb (vest).

  6. #106
    Grand Master Andyg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wileeeeeey View Post
    I blame your mother for giving birth to you.

    Rude and it's bad form to bring mothers into the forum.

    Perhaps you need to reflect and then blame yourself for not getting the sarcasm.
    Last edited by Andyg; 30th November 2019 at 22:27.

    Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
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  7. #107
    Grand Master Chris_in_the_UK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HookedSeven View Post
    Because of this. This was the post I was questioning...
    Ah, this was Met Police policy for fairly scientific reasons - the design of the 'switch' on a bomb aside.

    Somebody is assuming the bomber has the switch depressed and releases to activate - that is not me, or the Met Police.

    The destruction of the medula oblongata stops 'motor function'. You would need to ask higher authorities if this prevents muscle relaxation or not, but it's a safe bet that the anti terror training of firearms units consider the safer option.
    When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........

  8. #108
    Grand Master oldoakknives's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ralphy View Post
    It would appear he has a point.



    R
    Perhaps Sadiq Khan should look at Labour policies in 2008 which meant terrorists had to be released having served half their jail term. Conservatives changed it in 2012 but this particular terrorist was convicted before that so the earlier policy applied apparently.
    Courage is being scared to death but saddling up anyway.

  9. #109
    Grand Master oldoakknives's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kingstepper View Post
    We have laws against all sorts. Crimes still happen. :idiot:
    So the bans donít work then?
    Courage is being scared to death but saddling up anyway.

  10. #110
    Grand Master Andyg's Avatar
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    Clearly few people have heard of a dead man switch. You know the sort of trigger that goes bang if the tigger is not depressed. Often used as boobytraps including IEDs - move a body or obstruction and bingo.

    Anywho, according to witness, the police shot him in the chest. Shame it wasn't his arse because more than likely that's where his tiny little brain was located.

    Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
    Friedrich Nietzsche


  11. #111
    Grand Master Andyg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kingstepper View Post
    We have laws against all sorts. Crimes still happen. :idiot:

    So you accept than banning knives would achieve nothing, yet you suggested it.

    In which case who is the idiot?

    Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
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  12. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andyg View Post
    Clearly few people have heard of a dead man switch. You know the sort of trigger that goes bang if the tigger is not depressed. Often used as boobytraps including IEDs - move a body or obstruction and bingo.

    Anywho, according to witness, the police shot him in the chest. Shame it wasn't his arse because more than likely that's where his tiny little brain was located.

    What the hell has the mental state of a Winnie the Pooh character got to do with IEDs?

  13. #113
    The mother of one of the people murdered works at the same company as me. Itís an awful situation. Please remember that the victims are real people, with family and friends when commenting.

  14. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andyg View Post
    the police shot him in the chest. .
    Usually trained to aim for centre of mass......chest area

    Headshots legshots etc etc are best left to Hollywood.

  15. #115
    Grand Master oldoakknives's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt8500 View Post
    The mother of one of the people murdered works at the same company as me. Itís an awful situation. Please remember that the victims are real people, with family and friends when commenting.
    Yes. Perhaps the time has come for this to continue in another place.
    Courage is being scared to death but saddling up anyway.

  16. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by Argee1977 View Post
    What the hell has the mental state of a Winnie the Pooh character got to do with IEDs?
    Funniest thing Iíve read in ages. 10/10

  17. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by Argee1977 View Post
    What the hell has the mental state of a Winnie the Pooh character got to do with IEDs?
    very good

  18. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kingstepper View Post
    I certainly haven't been brainwashed (how is this done BTW).

    No-one is taking (most) knives away from people they just aren't allowed to carry them in public. I for one am glad that my teenage son (and one slightly older) and peers weren't allowed to carry them whilst at school.

    Thugs with machetes will still carry them.
    Thatís good you havenít been brainwashed but youíre confusing the issue. Iím not saying that children should be allowed to carry knives at school? (Not sure where you got that from). But thatís kind of the rationale of some where one person saying something must mean the extremes.

    The fact an adult isnít allowed to carry a knife in public has ZERO effect on criminals using knives in public, none! Thatís my point, why shouldnít someone be allowed to? Does the fact I canít carry a knife in public stop hundreds of people getting stabbed every year, no. Does it stop extremists using knives to kill people in the name of god, no.

    That knife Angel says it all really, the huge majority of the knives were kitchen knives and not tools. Itís apparently a moving tribute, yet to me it looks like a hollow statement.

    I saw a pic the other day of me as a little kid, cute pic, knelt next to our dog (who was wearing my sunglasses) I must have been 11 maybe. On my hip, a knife in a holster (quite a big knife). I still have it now, 31 years later. I have fond memories of sharpening sticks, making bow & arrows and it just being cool for all the right outdoorsy reasons. Not once did it enter my head it was cool to look like a badass or want to hurt people with it. Nowadays my parents would be called evil or something but in reality it taught me respect for a tool and how much healthy pleasure and practical help/fun it can be.


    Thereís a very weird thing going on these days with the whole snowflake society. Ban this, ban that yet the only people that have to abide by these bans are the ones that you donít have to worry about. Itís like the majority of people are so short sighted they just canít see it. I get part of the sentiment, I really do but thatís where most people stop thinking about it.

    Itís a horrible feeling being a shooter and every year being more and more persecuted. Having a genuine enthusiasm for your hobby and feeling more and more oppressed by BS media brainwashing. My guns arenít getting into the hands of a criminal as theyíre licensed and in a gun safe, someone breaks into my house theyíd be able to stab me before Iíd even woken up let alone thought about opening my safe to get the gun safe keys. Yet, soon I feel I wonít be allowed guns at all because someone smuggles over 60 illegal hand guns in the boot of a car (like the other day) or someone gets shot and thereís calls for tighter gun laws! Thereís no logic to it and no relationship between my licensed guns and a modified revolver yet joe public just shouts ďban gunsĒ. My hobby gets wiped out and people carry on killing each other with illegally sourced guns. Brilliant logic.

    Only the other day I learnt eBay are now banning any sales related to the word gun! No air gun pellets, no scopes, slings, cleaning kits, night vision etc etc. The world has gone crazy yet all the time the extremists get more extreme.

  19. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by jameswrx View Post
    Thatís good you havenít been brainwashed but youíre confusing the issue. Iím not saying that children should be allowed to carry knives at school? (Not sure where you got that from). But thatís kind of the rationale of some where one person saying something must mean the extremes.

    The fact an adult isnít allowed to carry a knife in public has ZERO effect on criminals using knives in public, none! Thatís my point, why shouldnít someone be allowed to? Does the fact I canít carry a knife in public stop hundreds of people getting stabbed every year, no. Does it stop extremists using knives to kill people in the name of god, no.

    That knife Angel says it all really, the huge majority of the knives were kitchen knives and not tools. Itís apparently a moving tribute, yet to me it looks like a hollow statement.

    I saw a pic the other day of me as a little kid, cute pic, knelt next to our dog (who was wearing my sunglasses) I must have been 11 maybe. On my hip, a knife in a holster (quite a big knife). I still have it now, 31 years later. I have fond memories of sharpening sticks, making bow & arrows and it just being cool for all the right outdoorsy reasons. Not once did it enter my head it was cool to look like a badass or want to hurt people with it. Nowadays my parents would be called evil or something but in reality it taught me respect for a tool and how much healthy pleasure and practical help/fun it can be.


    Thereís a very weird thing going on these days with the whole snowflake society. Ban this, ban that yet the only people that have to abide by these bans are the ones that you donít have to worry about. Itís like the majority of people are so short sighted they just canít see it. I get part of the sentiment, I really do but thatís where most people stop thinking about it.

    Itís a horrible feeling being a shooter and every year being more and more persecuted. Having a genuine enthusiasm for your hobby and feeling more and more oppressed by BS media brainwashing. My guns arenít getting into the hands of a criminal as theyíre licensed and in a gun safe, someone breaks into my house theyíd be able to stab me before Iíd even woken up let alone thought about opening my safe to get the gun safe keys. Yet, soon I feel I wonít be allowed guns at all because someone smuggles over 60 illegal hand guns in the boot of a car (like the other day) or someone gets shot and thereís calls for tighter gun laws! Thereís no logic to it and no relationship between my licensed guns and a modified revolver yet joe public just shouts ďban gunsĒ. My hobby gets wiped out and people carry on killing each other with illegally sourced guns. Brilliant logic.

    Only the other day I learnt eBay are now banning any sales related to the word gun! No air gun pellets, no scopes, slings, cleaning kits, night vision etc etc. The world has gone crazy yet all the time the extremists get more extreme.
    Well said.

  20. #120

    Major Event ongoing in London Bridge

    Quote Originally Posted by Andyg View Post
    So you accept than banning knives would achieve nothing, yet you suggested it.

    In which case who is the idiot?
    Doesnít achieve nothing, reduces knife crime.

    Murder is Ďbannedí, still happens.

  21. #121
    Grand Master oldoakknives's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kingstepper View Post
    Doesnít achieve nothing, reduces knife crime.

    Murder is Ďbannedí, still happens.
    When did Ďknife crimeí reduce as a result of a knife ban, and not the result of other actions by police forces? For example enforcing laws that already existed?

  22. #122
    Grand Master Andyg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kingstepper View Post
    Doesnít achieve nothing, reduces knife crime.

    Murder is Ďbannedí, still happens.

    Indeed murder, along with grievous and actual bodily harm is "banned", but surely you would agree that these crimes can committed with other implements and tools - not just knives. Tools which include hammers, crowbars, screw drivers, saws etc, etc, so are you suggesting all these be banned as well, or is it just knives, because they are the current weapon of choice of terrorists and yuff.

    Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
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  23. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by jameswrx View Post
    Thatís good you havenít been brainwashed but youíre confusing the issue. Iím not saying that children should be allowed to carry knives at school? (Not sure where you got that from). But thatís kind of the rationale of some where one person saying something must mean the extremes.

    The fact an adult isnít allowed to carry a knife in public has ZERO effect on criminals using knives in public, none! Thatís my point, why shouldnít someone be allowed to? Does the fact I canít carry a knife in public stop hundreds of people getting stabbed every year, no. Does it stop extremists using knives to kill people in the name of god, no.

    That knife Angel says it all really, the huge majority of the knives were kitchen knives and not tools. Itís apparently a moving tribute, yet to me it looks like a hollow statement.

    I saw a pic the other day of me as a little kid, cute pic, knelt next to our dog (who was wearing my sunglasses) I must have been 11 maybe. On my hip, a knife in a holster (quite a big knife). I still have it now, 31 years later. I have fond memories of sharpening sticks, making bow & arrows and it just being cool for all the right outdoorsy reasons. Not once did it enter my head it was cool to look like a badass or want to hurt people with it. Nowadays my parents would be called evil or something but in reality it taught me respect for a tool and how much healthy pleasure and practical help/fun it can be.


    Thereís a very weird thing going on these days with the whole snowflake society. Ban this, ban that yet the only people that have to abide by these bans are the ones that you donít have to worry about. Itís like the majority of people are so short sighted they just canít see it. I get part of the sentiment, I really do but thatís where most people stop thinking about it.

    Itís a horrible feeling being a shooter and every year being more and more persecuted. Having a genuine enthusiasm for your hobby and feeling more and more oppressed by BS media brainwashing. My guns arenít getting into the hands of a criminal as theyíre licensed and in a gun safe, someone breaks into my house theyíd be able to stab me before Iíd even woken up let alone thought about opening my safe to get the gun safe keys. Yet, soon I feel I wonít be allowed guns at all because someone smuggles over 60 illegal hand guns in the boot of a car (like the other day) or someone gets shot and thereís calls for tighter gun laws! Thereís no logic to it and no relationship between my licensed guns and a modified revolver yet joe public just shouts ďban gunsĒ. My hobby gets wiped out and people carry on killing each other with illegally sourced guns. Brilliant logic.

    Only the other day I learnt eBay are now banning any sales related to the word gun! No air gun pellets, no scopes, slings, cleaning kits, night vision etc etc. The world has gone crazy yet all the time the extremists get more extreme.

    I think you are trying to make knife laws have an effect on every single scenario/genre, but the banning of knives out with the limits in public (without good cause) might not stop someone stabbing another today, but the longer they carry a knife - the better odds of them getting lifted. It also should be a deterrent to kids taking knives to school - where a scrap can turn into a knifing only if knives are present. Sure - no-one knows how many knifings are stopped with this law (if any) as the number is not a tangible figure.

    Gun laws? On the back of Hungerford and Dunblane - new laws were brought in to hopefully prevent an occurrence. It had nothing to do with terrorists. It all had to do with deranged people owning firearms, or Someone who owns firearms - becoming deranged (losing perspective on life/incensed by something). When there can be extreme action from which there is no pulling back once started - that can be an attractive solution to the deranged gun-owner.

    A desire to go down in history? An argument with a neighbour/local authority? Suicide (popular in the farming community) - all things that take away the possibility of changing your mind half-way through. If there was a cleaner/more surefire method of committing suicide (without jumping onto motorway/in front of a train) - than paracetemol/alcohol overdose - then more people would be doing it I think.

    I think there is a large majority of the UK public who are happier that there is stronger gun control post Hungerford and Dunblane. If the biggest casualty in that, is that some people had to find another hobby............... too bad.

  24. #124
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    Major Event ongoing in London Bridge

    Knife laws donít prevent anything if premeditated. If carrying a knife in some random environment like a pub on a Friday night with alcohol involved then the problem isnít premeditation itís spontaneous heat of the moment occurrences that are preventable. Itís hard to pin down with words but ďhaving reasonable cause to be carrying a knifeĒ is the thing.

    Obviously strolling to the local slug and lettuce with a 7Ē Bowie has lots of potential to end badly and you might struggle to come up with reasonable cause for having it on your person
    Last edited by RustyBin5; 1st December 2019 at 13:25.

  25. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by RustyBin5 View Post
    Knife laws donít prevent anything if premeditated. If carrying a knife in some random environment like a pub on a Friday night with alcohol involved then the problem isnít premeditation itís spontaneous heat of the moment occurrences that are preventable. Itís hard to pin down with words but ďhaving reasonable cause to be carrying a knifeĒ is the thing.

    Obviously strolling to the local slug and lettuce with a 7Ē Bowie has lots of potential to end badly and you might struggle to come up with reasonable cause for having it on your person
    I think the knife laws we have are sensible. You need 'good reason' to carry fixed blade knives and that can only be a good thing really. It means those who have a need to use knives can legally do so.

    The problem is that we now talk about 'knife crime' as though it is basically the fault of knives, which are after all inanimate objects which pose no threat in themselves. What we really have is a problem with 'gang violence' driven by drugs and territory issues in some areas and which is spilling into other areas as the drug gangs target more rural areas as well. If youth gangs are going to fight over territory, they will always find weapons to use. What next? Ban screwdrivers, tent pegs or whatever else becomes the weapon of choice. Any solutions will probably have to come from the communities and families of those involved rather than trying to disarm them.

    We could say that armed and violent robbery is often 'jewellery and watch crime'! Which could be prevented by banning jewellery and expensive watches, rather than tackling those responsible!!
    Courage is being scared to death but saddling up anyway.

  26. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldoakknives View Post
    I think the knife laws we have are sensible. You need 'good reason' to carry fixed blade knives and that can only be a good thing really. It means those who have a need to use knives can legally do so.

    The problem is that we now talk about 'knife crime' as though it is basically the fault of knives, which are after all inanimate objects which pose no threat in themselves. What we really have is a problem with 'gang violence' driven by drugs and territory issues in some areas and which is spilling into other areas as the drug gangs target more rural areas as well. If youth gangs are going to fight over territory, they will always find weapons to use. What next? Ban screwdrivers, tent pegs or whatever else becomes the weapon of choice. Any solutions will probably have to come from the communities and families of those involved rather than trying to disarm them.

    We could say that armed and violent robbery is often 'jewellery and watch crime'! Which could be prevented by banning jewellery and expensive watches, rather than tackling those responsible!!
    Yes, they will always find some suitable weapon (screwdrivers etc) - but that is already covered under the non-specific ďoffensive weaponí laws. So no - a law banning those is NOT next.

    Carry a baseball bat in your car on a permanent basis? That could put you on your back feet if stopped for anything else criminal - an offensive weapon. Carry a wheel brace/breaker bar? There is a genuine reason for it being there.

  27. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackal View Post
    Yes, they will always find some suitable weapon (screwdrivers etc) - but that is already covered under the non-specific “offensive weapon’ laws. So no - a law banning those is NOT next.....
    Well, kitchen and other knives are covered by the exact same "offensive weapon" law, and under specific knife carry laws. So why ban those either?

    But they still may be banned from sale unless having a 'rounded' end apparently. https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp...itchen-knives/
    Courage is being scared to death but saddling up anyway.

  28. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldoakknives View Post
    Well, kitchen and other knives are covered by the exact same "offensive weapon" law, and under specific knife carry laws. So why ban those either?

    But they still may be banned from sale unless having a 'rounded' end apparently. https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp...itchen-knives/
    You are quoting the P&J and Scottish laws which are different from rest of UK in several areas.

    Iím not sure what you are asking in first para, or why you are asking me?

  29. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackal View Post
    You are quoting the P&J and Scottish laws which are different from rest of UK in several areas.

    Iím not sure what you are asking in first para, or why you are asking me?

    Simply because you said


    Quote Originally Posted by blackal View Post
    Yes, they will always find some suitable weapon (screwdrivers etc) - but that is already covered under the non-specific ďoffensive weaponí laws. So no - a law banning those is NOT next......

    .
    So by the same token knives are already covered by the same laws.

    Wasn't questioning what you said, regarding the other items being covered by those laws, which is correct. Just didn't see it stopping the banning of sale of those items if they became popular as weapons.
    Courage is being scared to death but saddling up anyway.

  30. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldoakknives View Post
    Simply because you said




    So by the same token knives are already covered by the same laws.

    Wasn't questioning what you said, regarding the other items being covered by those laws, which is correct. Just didn't see it stopping the banning of sale of those items if they became popular as weapons.
    I can only assume that they wanted it black/white. Knife specific law - to take away any chance that a good defence lawyer could get a client out of it. Now the law says that anything over a certain length and/or locking blade - is illegal unless you have a genuine/acceptable reason for carrying in public.

    Legislate against screwdrivers, marlin spikes, hammers? Very difficult and onerous. Knives? ....... A fairly simple law in reaction so an issue that they had to address. Iím all for stop and search too.

    Kids taking knives to school might just reduce if there was the chance of being stopped, simply carrying ďbecause itís coolĒ

  31. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackal View Post
    Iím all for stop and search too.
    Kids taking knives to school might just reduce if there was the chance of being stopped, simply carrying ďbecause itís coolĒ
    Knife crime increased when Sadiq Khan't stopped 'stop & search'. An officer then had to get permission to stop and search from his superior.
    Because black youths are predominantly the knife trouble makers ( I'm not a racist, it's a fact) it was decided that stopping a black youth might spark trouble and riots.
    When I was in the job, I could stop anyone and search them especially at night. Often some crimes were discovered by S&S and a lot of crimes were cleared up.
    Lilly livered snowflakes have stopped all that.

  32. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackal View Post
    I can only assume that they wanted it black/white. Knife specific law - to take away any chance that a good defence lawyer could get a client out of it. Now the law says that anything over a certain length and/or locking blade - is illegal unless you have a genuine/acceptable reason for carrying in public.

    Legislate against screwdrivers, marlin spikes, hammers? Very difficult and onerous. Knives? ....... A fairly simple law in reaction so an issue that they had to address. Iím all for stop and search too.

    Kids taking knives to school might just reduce if there was the chance of being stopped, simply carrying ďbecause itís coolĒ
    As I said I'm in favour of knife laws as they are at the moment.

    I think you can only stop something happening if you target the people who are actually doing it. Unfortunately this doesn't seem to be very popular among the very areas the problems exist.

    I'm in favour of stop and search, especially in areas where gang violence is a problem.
    Courage is being scared to death but saddling up anyway.

  33. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldoakknives View Post
    Perhaps Sadiq Khan should look at Labour policies in 2008 which meant terrorists had to be released having served half their jail term. Conservatives changed it in 2012 but this particular terrorist was convicted before that so the earlier policy applied apparently.
    Perhaps you, and a few others, should look at some 'facts'

    https://thesecretbarrister.com/2019/...early-release/
    Best Regards - Peter

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    More footage in the news. Why don't mobile phone "videographers" realise that most display devices play in landscape format (TVs, computers etc) and stop holding their phones in the upright/portrait position when videoing? I've even seen commercials that now mimic this style with the blurred edges to mask the camerapersons incompetance ;-) (/victormeldrewmodeoff)

  35. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rod View Post
    Knife crime increased when Sadiq Khan't stopped 'stop & search'. An officer then had to get permission to stop and search from his superior.
    Because black youths are predominantly the knife trouble makers ( I'm not a racist, it's a fact) it was decided that stopping a black youth might spark trouble and riots.
    When I was in the job, I could stop anyone and search them especially at night. Often some crimes were discovered by S&S and a lot of crimes were cleared up.
    Lilly livered snowflakes have stopped all that.
    Taking a knife off a kid it's a real kindness, good for everyone, in the long run.

  36. #136
    Quote Originally Posted by jameswrx View Post
    That’s good you haven’t been brainwashed but you’re confusing the issue. I’m not saying that children should be allowed to carry knives at school? (Not sure where you got that from). But that’s kind of the rationale of some where one person saying something must mean the extremes.

    The fact an adult isn’t allowed to carry a knife in public has ZERO effect on criminals using knives in public, none! That’s my point, why shouldn’t someone be allowed to? Does the fact I can’t carry a knife in public stop hundreds of people getting stabbed every year, no. Does it stop extremists using knives to kill people in the name of god, no.

    That knife Angel says it all really, the huge majority of the knives were kitchen knives and not tools. It’s apparently a moving tribute, yet to me it looks like a hollow statement.

    I saw a pic the other day of me as a little kid, cute pic, knelt next to our dog (who was wearing my sunglasses) I must have been 11 maybe. On my hip, a knife in a holster (quite a big knife). I still have it now, 31 years later. I have fond memories of sharpening sticks, making bow & arrows and it just being cool for all the right outdoorsy reasons. Not once did it enter my head it was cool to look like a badass or want to hurt people with it. Nowadays my parents would be called evil or something but in reality it taught me respect for a tool and how much healthy pleasure and practical help/fun it can be.


    There’s a very weird thing going on these days with the whole snowflake society. Ban this, ban that yet the only people that have to abide by these bans are the ones that you don’t have to worry about. It’s like the majority of people are so short sighted they just can’t see it. I get part of the sentiment, I really do but that’s where most people stop thinking about it.

    It’s a horrible feeling being a shooter and every year being more and more persecuted. Having a genuine enthusiasm for your hobby and feeling more and more oppressed by BS media brainwashing. My guns aren’t getting into the hands of a criminal as they’re licensed and in a gun safe, someone breaks into my house they’d be able to stab me before I’d even woken up let alone thought about opening my safe to get the gun safe keys. Yet, soon I feel I won’t be allowed guns at all because someone smuggles over 60 illegal hand guns in the boot of a car (like the other day) or someone gets shot and there’s calls for tighter gun laws! There’s no logic to it and no relationship between my licensed guns and a modified revolver yet joe public just shouts “ban guns”. My hobby gets wiped out and people carry on killing each other with illegally sourced guns. Brilliant logic.

    Only the other day I learnt eBay are now banning any sales related to the word gun! No air gun pellets, no scopes, slings, cleaning kits, night vision etc etc. The world has gone crazy yet all the time the extremists get more extreme.
    Sorry but this is completely biased and nonsensical logic. Do you really think allowing more knives out on the street is a good idea?! So that in every dodgy pub in the UK everyone is tooled up with no need to worry about getting searched by the police! It would just add fuel to the fire.

    Why not ask a policeman if they'd like carrying a knife to be made legal?

    Same goes for guns, just look at the devastating effects of weak gun laws and legal carry in Amercia. Our knife crime is bad but it's nothing compared to gun crime in the US.

    Why not get rid of speed limits outside schools because many people speed anyway or legalise Heroin and sell it in Tescos because some people get hold of drugs anyway?

    Knife and gun laws are there to make it harder for the minority to cause great harm. They will never ever be 100% successful but concluding that this means those laws have no effect is pure simplistic nonsense.
    Last edited by watchcollector1; 2nd December 2019 at 17:54.

  37. #137
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    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-en...urrey-50627294

    And who does one thank for making the general public act like this?

    There are still people who think that ALL guns are banned as the intellectuals in the above link seemed to think.

    I have quite a few guns, all locked away double blind. Even my family do not know how to access them. Ammunition stored separately.

    When the big ban started in 1996/7 all semi-auto firearms other than .22 rimfire and shotguns were rendered illegal plus all firearms were to have a minimum over-all-length of 24" and compensation was paid to those who were forced to surrender their now prohibited guns. However, the laws are illogical and draconian, the epitome of the 'nanny state'. It is still possible within the law to own firearms that are capable of big carnage yet people are threatened with serious jail time for possessing an air weapon with slightly over the 12 ft lb (muzzle energy) limit or owning a starting pistol (blank firing) with a forward venting partially blocked barrel. I can go out tonight and buy a perfectly legal large calibre revolver in 'Obsolete Calibre' and buy the equipment to make functioning ammunition. Actually this is precisely what some criminals do in the rent-a-gun world.
    The law is an ass and in this case is only used to bludgeon legal owners as no (or very little) gun crime is committed by legal shooters and sportsman.

  38. #138
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    We use this argument often enough when talking about gun violence /ownership in the US: itís cultural.
    Same goes, unfortunately, for knife crime in this country. Popularised and demonised by the Daily Heil and its cohort of red tops, they manage to scare people with what was nothing but a tool. A tool that scares people? Now how many wannabe tough youngsters would think itís a great idea? Plus every kitchen has loads, every supermarket sells them...
    On the continent, our youths are no angels. We also have gangs, drugs, violence.
    You can buy most knives quite easily, provided youíre over 18.
    The carrying laws are roughly the same (speaking for France now), yet no one will bat an eyelid if you get your Opinel out to eat an apple in the train.
    A lock on a blade is a safety device: it doesnít turn the holder in a bloodthirsty monster.
    Don't take my silence for agreement. I've just realised you're too stupid to argue with.

  39. #139
    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Smith View Post
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-en...urrey-50627294

    And who does one thank for making the general public act like this?

    There are still people who think that ALL guns are banned as the intellectuals in the above link seemed to think.

    I have quite a few guns, all locked away double blind. Even my family do not know how to access them. Ammunition stored separately.

    When the big ban started in 1996/7 all semi-auto firearms other than .22 rimfire and shotguns were rendered illegal plus all firearms were to have a minimum over-all-length of 24" and compensation was paid to those who were forced to surrender their now prohibited guns. However, the laws are illogical and draconian, the epitome of the 'nanny state'. It is still possible within the law to own firearms that are capable of big carnage yet people are threatened with serious jail time for possessing an air weapon with slightly over the 12 ft lb (muzzle energy) limit or owning a starting pistol (blank firing) with a forward venting partially blocked barrel. I can go out tonight and buy a perfectly legal large calibre revolver in 'Obsolete Calibre' and buy the equipment to make functioning ammunition. Actually this is precisely what some criminals do in the rent-a-gun world.
    The law is an ass and in this case is only used to bludgeon legal owners as no (or very little) gun crime is committed by legal shooters and sportsman.
    Blame Thomas Hamilton not the law. The only reason he was able to kill so many children in such a short space of time in that school was that he had legal access to a semi automatic gun.

    You can try to dismiss Dunblane as "very little crime committed by legal gun owners" if you want but it was clear from the public's reaction that this abhorrent event must never ever be allowed to happen again. That isn't the nanny state.

    Compare that to the US where similar events happen multiple times a year and survivors are branded snowflakes if they call for gun control or massacres are dismissed as media conspiracies and bereaved parents are hounded.

    If UK law is nonsensical because it's still possible for hobbyists to legally own firearms with the potential to cause great damage still then the law needs tightening up not relaxing.

    If you feel victimised maybe it's time to find a hobby that doesn't involve lethal weapons?

  40. #140
    If UK law is nonsensical because it's still possible for hobbyists to legally own firearms with the potential to cause great damage still then the law needs tightening up not relaxing.
    If you really want to stop people being killed by legally held weapons then itís the motorist that needs to looked at and laws enforced, after all they kill half a dozen people every day.

    You are way more likely to be killed by a motorist than a legal gun owner, I would suggest Ďdriving like a cockí needs to made an illegal hobby.

  41. #141
    Master wileeeeeey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Smith View Post
    The law is an ass and in this case is only used to bludgeon legal owners as no (or very little) gun crime is committed by legal shooters and sportsman.
    You're confusing the amount of crime with severity of crime. It doesn't matter how little crime is committed involving guns (legal or not) what matters is the severity of the crime. Doesn't matter if it's potential or past severity.

    One look at America and another at the UK and I know which laws make more sense. I'm sorry that you're negatively impacted and you sound like a responsible gun owner but not everyone is like you and if that's an inconvenience as much as it isn't nice to say to someone no one really cares. The benefit of your inconvenience is worth the price.

  42. #142
    Quote Originally Posted by MrSmith View Post
    If you really want to stop people being killed by legally held weapons then it’s the motorist that needs to looked at and laws enforced, after all they kill half a dozen people every day.

    You are way more likely to be killed by a motorist than a legal gun owner, I would suggest ‘driving like a cock’ needs to made an illegal hobby.
    The usual nonsense. Cars / vehicles have many positive aspects are essential for our economy, way of life, food supplies, etc. Banning them would cause more harm than good. Would you fancy walking to hospital if you had a heart attack?

    Guns in public ownership have no positive benefit to the wider public, only a few hobbyists benefit.


    Agree on the last point though.
    Last edited by watchcollector1; 2nd December 2019 at 19:44.

  43. #143
    Grand Master Griswold's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrSmith View Post
    If you really want to stop people being killed by legally held weapons then itís the motorist that needs to looked at and laws enforced, after all they kill half a dozen people every day.

    You are way more likely to be killed by a motorist than a legal gun owner, I would suggest Ďdriving like a cockí needs to made an illegal hobby.
    Cars are not designed with the principal aim of killing, guns are.
    Best Regards - Peter

    I hate being bipolar, its brilliant.

  44. #144
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    Yawn, same old same old.

  45. #145
    Guns in public ownership have no positive benefit to the wider public, only a few hobbyists benefit.
    Where do you draw the line? How about dogs, they kill half a dozen people a year and injure many more and it’s not just the ‘dangerous’ types either but terriers and Alsatians too, the only benefit they offer is companionship and that’s too high a price to pay for death. They should only be allowed for guide dogs and the police.
    Any other public ownership is too high a price to pay for something that kills indiscriminately.

    And then there is drugs. 6000 avoidable deaths from their misuse. And that doesn’t include alcohol.
    Last edited by MrSmith; 2nd December 2019 at 20:31.

  46. #146
    Quote Originally Posted by seadog1408 View Post
    Yawn, same old same old.
    Death never goes away, itís inevitable really.

  47. #147
    Master wileeeeeey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrSmith View Post
    Where do you draw the line? How about dogs, they kill half a dozen people a year and injure many more and itís not just the Ďdangerousí types either but terriers and Alsatians too, the only benefit they offer is companionship and thatís too high a price to pay for death. They should only be allowed for guide dogs and the police.
    Any other public ownership is too high a price to pay for something that kills indiscriminately.

    And then there is drugs. 6000 avoidable deaths from their misuse. And that doesnít include alcohol.
    The government draws the line and the line has been drawn. Move on with your life and get over yourself.

  48. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrSmith View Post
    Where do you draw the line? How about dogs, they kill half a dozen people a year and injure many more and itís not just the Ďdangerousí types either but terriers and Alsatians too, the only benefit they offer is companionship and thatís too high a price to pay for death. They should only be allowed for guide dogs and the police.
    Any other public ownership is too high a price to pay for something that kills indiscriminately.

    And then there is drugs. 6000 avoidable deaths from their misuse. And that doesnít include alcohol.

    I think ďboring people to deathĒ should have the line drawn above it.................

  49. #149
    I personally don’t care if legally held guns are banned, it’s years since I had a licence, it’s just the idiocy of the argument of banning them when illegal weapons will still kill.
    On the news as I type there is a school kid killed in a hit and run. Ban cars? No. Enforce the laws and more driving bans? Yes.
    I have lost 3 friends/family members due to motorists being dicks, I don’t think I’ll ever get over that.

    I think “boring people to death” should have the line drawn above it.................
    Yeah sorry about that, death isn’t very entertaining (unless it’s in the movies)

  50. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saint-Just View Post
    gun violence /ownership in the US: itís cultural
    I believe it's political. The NRA are major supporters of the democrats, regularly donating over $1m a year.

    This Charlton Heston clip is scary - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ju4Gla2odw

    Also, in the USA, over 2/3rds of gun related deaths are suicide. Most suicide attempts fail, except where there is a gun involved.

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