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Thread: Major Event ongoing in London Bridge

  1. #51
    Master thieuster's Avatar
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    Convicted terrorist according to the Daily Mail. Brave men chasing him with a fire ext. and a narwal task (!!)

    Talking about heroic actions. They need a decoration!
    Last edited by thieuster; 30th November 2019 at 08:37.

  2. #52
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    Agreed.
    Astonished he was allowed out, albeit apparently tagged, I'll say no more out of respect for the rules.

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Passenger View Post
    Agreed.
    Astonished he was allowed out, albeit apparently tagged, I'll say no more out of respect for the rules.
    We can’t just throw them in jail and toss away the key for every offence, but if it’s a terrorism offence then on release he should be deported surely? Two discussions there.....should sentences be lengthened and should deportation on release be mandatory. Reoffending is so common in all crimes - we don’t learn

  4. #54
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    Having watched the video that civilian who held onto the terrorists deserves the highest commendation we have.

    It was clear they thought he would reach for a trigger and detonate the vest as soon as he let go.

    He held on until the police pulled him off to get a shot in.

    I am in awe at his bravery

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by RustyBin5 View Post
    We can’t just throw them in jail and toss away the key for every offence, but if it’s a terrorism offence then on release he should be deported surely?
    To where? He was born in Stoke on Trent.

    Great heroism by members of the public here, and decisive/quick action by the Police.

    I wish everywhere had access to the quick response we saw yesterday.

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by RustyBin5 View Post
    We can’t just throw them in jail and toss away the key for every offence, but if it’s a terrorism offence then on release he should be deported surely? Two discussions there.....should sentences be lengthened and should deportation on release be mandatory. Reoffending is so common in all crimes - we don’t learn
    I think certain crimes in specific circumstances should carry the maximum penalty, for the good of society, to ensure further harm is prevented and because rehab won't/can't work because of how some individuals are 'wired' whether by nature/nurture or a combo of both , just my view. Seems common sense to me, if you look/go deep into the abyss it looks back/ marks you.
    Last edited by Passenger; 30th November 2019 at 09:50.

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by bwest76 View Post
    Having watched the video that civilian who held onto the terrorists deserves the highest commendation we have.

    It was clear they thought he would reach for a trigger and detonate the vest as soon as he let go.

    He held on until the police pulled him off to get a shot in.

    I am in awe at his bravery
    Certainly agree with you on that. He is a very brave individual faced with what looks like a suicide vest.
    Courage is being scared to death but saddling up anyway.

  8. #58
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    There’s footage of 3 men tackling him,he had a big knife in each hand and was waving them around.

    The hero’s had a fire extinguisher,a narwal tusk and the one who grabbed him just bare hands.
    It appears they may have been ex prisoners themselves?


  9. #59
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    Brave and ingenious use of the items they had to hand to press into service as weapons, absolutely top team work and instincts.

  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by bwest76 View Post
    There’s footage of 3 men tackling him,he had a big knife in each hand and was waving them around.

    The hero’s had a fire extinguisher,a narwal tusk and the one who grabbed him just bare hands.
    It appears they may have been ex prisoners themselves?

    Why does it appear they are ex prisoners?

    Never mind just seen the news
    Last edited by bootneck; 30th November 2019 at 11:19.

  11. #61
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    I just read the article about the convicted-murderer-on-leave online (Daily Mail). You can't make that up, no-one would believe that scenario for a film or similar. That Khan guy literally ran into the wrong person.

  12. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tooks View Post
    To where? He was born in Stoke on Trent.

    Great heroism by members of the public here, and decisive/quick action by the Police.

    I wish everywhere had access to the quick response we saw yesterday.
    If nowhere to deport to them they have to stay inside then

  13. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by RustyBin5 View Post
    If nowhere to deport to them they have to stay inside then
    Arguably this guy shouldn’t have been out anyway, and tagging didn’t work.

    There are some offences where you just shouldn’t get parole/early release.

    But anyway, this is the G&D etc...

  14. #64
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    This is really a dilemma... Khan, being outside the prison too early (clearly, jail didn't help) was stopped by a murderer on leave who -according to the aunt of his victim- is a monster.

    Menno

  15. #65
    Bad people aren't bad all the time.

  16. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tooks View Post
    Arguably this guy shouldn’t have been out anyway, and tagging didn’t work.

    There are some offences where you just shouldn’t get parole/early release.

    But anyway, this is the G&D etc...
    But, in saying that who knows the end result if the other person convicted of murder had not acted. There may have been more casualties.

  17. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by RustyBin5 View Post
    We can’t just throw them in jail and toss away the key for every offence, but if it’s a terrorism offence then on release he should be deported surely?
    Quote Originally Posted by Tooks View Post
    To where? He was born in Stoke on Trent.
    Deporting him back there would be cruel in the extreme.

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  18. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldoakknives View Post
    Certainly agree with you on that. He is a very brave individual faced with what looks like a suicide vest.
    The George Cross ....."acts of the greatest heroism or of the most conspicuous courage in circumstances of extreme danger".

    Would love to see this award given to the chap who was dragged off by the police before the shots fired, what courage to put his own life on the line, and what could have been a live suicide vest as well.
    Last edited by pembers; 30th November 2019 at 13:43.

  19. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by pembers View Post
    The George Cross ....."acts of the greatest heroism or of the most conspicuous courage in circumstances of extreme danger".

    Would love to see this award given to the chap who was dragged off by the police before the shots fired, what courage to put his own life on the line, and what could have been a live suicide vest as well.
    Yep. Be interesting to know the full story as it comes out. Maybe the guy that had hold of him watched his friend/family get stabbed to death for all we know. He was obviously on a mission as the guy had a ‘suicide vest’ strapped round him on display for all the people helping knew.

    It’s a sad state of affairs and it just shows also how ridiculous bans on things like certain knives are. Has zero effect on anyone other than the law abiding. I know people generally wouldn’t be carrying knives about to defend themselves but it’s pretty ironic that we (the law abiding) get stuff taken off us (knives, guns) and it doesn’t effect the bad guys in any way except make their job easier to the point we’re only able to defend ourselves with a broom handle and some handy fire extinguishers!

  20. #70
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    ... broom handle... or narwal tusk for that matter. People like that chap Khan can come up with tons of objects to act as lethal weapon. Searches in prisons show that the most obvious household item can and will be used by people planning an attack.

  21. #71

    Major Event ongoing in London Bridge

    Quote Originally Posted by jameswrx View Post

    It’s a sad state of affairs and it just shows also how ridiculous bans on things like certain knives are. Has zero effect on anyone other than the law abiding. I know people generally wouldn’t be carrying knives about to defend themselves but it’s pretty ironic that we (the law abiding) get stuff taken off us (knives, guns) and it doesn’t effect the bad guys in any way except make their job easier to the point we’re only able to defend ourselves with a broom handle and some handy fire extinguishers!
    Ban on knives makes perfect sense and prevents more widespread carrying esp. by younger people.

    Bans on knives and guns isn’t aimed at terrorists ( or hardened criminals) who obviously don’t care and will get hold of and use them regardless.

  22. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kingstepper View Post
    Ban on knives makes perfect sense and prevents more widespread carrying esp. by younger people.
    The ban doesn't seem to be working, lots of stabbings still happening on a weekly basis.

  23. #73
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    Good to see Sadiq Khan making political capital out of this by blaming Tory cuts.

    Now this is the true hero from yesterday.

    Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
    Friedrich Nietzsche


  24. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kingstepper View Post
    Ban on knives makes perfect sense and prevents more widespread carrying esp. by younger people.

    Bans on knives and guns isn’t aimed at terrorists ( or hardened criminals) who obviously don’t care and will get hold of and use them regardless.
    You are aware that we have laws in place banning the carrying of knifes which doesn't seem to be working for some children between 10-16 either - perhaps because they (and or their parents) don't care either.

    Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
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  25. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kingstepper View Post
    Ban on knives makes perfect sense and prevents more widespread carrying esp. by younger people.

    Bans on knives and guns isn’t aimed at terrorists ( or hardened criminals) who obviously don’t care and will get hold of and use them regardless.
    Sorry but that’s the typical brainwashed public response.

    I can guarantee you after every thing like this or shootings like in Paris you could go up to people in the street and say “what about that terrorist shooting/stabbing, shouldn’t we ban knives/guns?” And the majority of people would say “yes, ban them it’s terrible”

    All it does is persecutes the decent shooter or knife enthusiast (yes, why shouldn’t people be into useful tools like knives!). The decent man gets everything taken away from them because of the general public thinking (naively) that they’re doing a good thing by helping ban ‘dangerous things’

    Really there is no logical reason why I (as someone who would never want to hurt an innocent person) shouldn’t be able to have a knife of any size on me. Yet I can’t because joe bloggs thinks the knife itself is the issue, the issue is the person and they clearly just use a kitchen knife (mostly because they’re cheap and easy to get) anyway and any ban on knives only has an effect on people who would never use them for bad actions anyway. If I wanted to carry a knife and stab someone I would regardless of the law and we see this time and time again. We have the tightest knife laws today yet have the stabbing stopped? No, they’re probably worse than ever in London!

    Kids over London carry them and it’s even ‘cooler’ to do so because they’re illegal weapons. I watched a met police chase vid the other day and police caught a moped thief kid and as he ran he threw a large knife (size of a machete) surely he shouldn’t have had that on him as it’s banned!


    The Paris shootings... first press response and fuss.. we should tighten gun laws and persecute law abiding people more. Lots of interviews on the street “why do we need these guns” blah blah blah. Yes, brilliant! The criminals who obtained illegally sourced AK47’s would never have got them if we had tighter gun laws for responsible shooters using guns that are nothing like AK47’s. Why can’t people see the two are not connected?

    If someone smothers someone with a pillow why is there not a public outcry to ban pillows? Or someone gets strangled, let’s ban the use of hands around other people’s necks! It’s just a ridiculous to suggest that as banning knife carry or guns.

    The majority of people are brainwashed by the media to think the objects are the problem, they’re not it’s the people behind them. Get to the root of the issue!

  26. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by jameswrx View Post
    Sorry but that’s the typical brainwashed public response.

    I can guarantee you after every thing like this or shootings like in Paris you could go up to people in the street and say “what about that terrorist shooting/stabbing, shouldn’t we ban knives/guns?” And the majority of people would say “yes, ban them it’s terrible”

    All it does is persecutes the decent shooter or knife enthusiast (yes, why shouldn’t people be into useful tools like knives!). The decent man gets everything taken away from them because of the general public thinking (naively) that they’re doing a good thing by helping ban ‘dangerous things’

    Really there is no logical reason why I (as someone who would never want to hurt an innocent person) shouldn’t be able to have a knife of any size on me. Yet I can’t because joe bloggs thinks the knife itself is the issue, the issue is the person and they clearly just use a kitchen knife (mostly because they’re cheap and easy to get) anyway and any ban on knives only has an effect on people who would never use them for bad actions anyway. If I wanted to carry a knife and stab someone I would regardless of the law and we see this time and time again. We have the tightest knife laws today yet have the stabbing stopped? No, they’re probably worse than ever in London!

    Kids over London carry them and it’s even ‘cooler’ to do so because they’re illegal weapons. I watched a met police chase vid the other day and police caught a moped thief kid and as he ran he threw a large knife (size of a machete) surely he shouldn’t have had that on him as it’s banned!


    The Paris shootings... first press response and fuss.. we should tighten gun laws and persecute law abiding people more. Lots of interviews on the street “why do we need these guns” blah blah blah. Yes, brilliant! The criminals who obtained illegally sourced AK47’s would never have got them if we had tighter gun laws for responsible shooters using guns that are nothing like AK47’s. Why can’t people see the two are not connected?

    If someone smothers someone with a pillow why is there not a public outcry to ban pillows? Or someone gets strangled, let’s ban the use of hands around other people’s necks! It’s just a ridiculous to suggest that as banning knife carry or guns.

    The majority of people are brainwashed by the media to think the objects are the problem, they’re not it’s the people behind them. Get to the root of the issue!
    VERY well said.

  27. #77
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    Why does anyone need a knife in central London? Or any populated town? Don't see why not wanting someone carrying a knife outside Monument makes any of us brainwashed. You're not in a forest.

  28. #78
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    I am rather surprised that no one has suggested that the police response was "heavy handed" given the victim was face down and clearly trying to surrender.

    Also why wasn't the so called "heros" not being charged with possession of a deathly weapon - a spear FFS. They certainly were not acting in self defence given they chased the victim down the road before they tackled him and then used threatening behaviour and physical violence against him. What about his human rights.

    I blame Boris, the Met Police, the Prison system, the Law, Epstein, Prince Andrew, the bankers, and those who voted for Brexit. In fact blame everyone not carrying a knife and stabbing people in the name in their religion.

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  29. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by wileeeeeey View Post
    Why does anyone need a knife in central London? Or any populated town? Don't see why not wanting someone carrying a knife outside Monument makes any of us brainwashed. You're not in a forest.
    Many deer stalkers, shooters, and bush crafters live in central London and populated towns. They own guns and knives. Stopping them owning them will not prevent gang violence with knives or terrorist incidents with knives. I don't think anyone is arguing to be able to carry large knives in public places where there is no need for them.
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  30. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andyg View Post
    I am rather surprised that no one has suggested that the police response was "heavy handed" given the victim was face down and clearly trying to surrender.

    Also why wasn't the so called "heros" not being charged with possession of a deathly weapon - a spear FFS. They certainly were not acting in self defence given they chased the victim down the road before they tackled him and then used threatening behaviour and physical violence against him. What about his human rights.

    I blame Boris, the Met Police, the Prison system, the Law, Epstein, Prince Andrew, the bankers, and those who voted for Brexit. In fact blame everyone not carrying a knife and stabbing people in the name in their religion.
    Wearing an imitation explosive vest, I heard - as soon as seen, wouldn’t surprise me if they have a policy of immediate shot to the head.

  31. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andyg View Post
    I am rather surprised that no one has suggested that the police response was "heavy handed" given the victim was face down and clearly trying to surrender.
    I have 4 videos of this on my phone from different positions and angles (inevitable, I work right by it) and all of them show the same thing. He wasn't face down in any of them and when he was shown he fell on his back and died face up.

  32. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by jameswrx View Post
    Sorry but that’s the typical brainwashed public response.

    I can guarantee you after every thing like this or shootings like in Paris you could go up to people in the street and say “what about that terrorist shooting/stabbing, shouldn’t we ban knives/guns?” And the majority of people would say “yes, ban them it’s terrible”

    All it does is persecutes the decent shooter or knife enthusiast (yes, why shouldn’t people be into useful tools like knives!). The decent man gets everything taken away from them because of the general public thinking (naively) that they’re doing a good thing by helping ban ‘dangerous things’

    Really there is no logical reason why I (as someone who would never want to hurt an innocent person) shouldn’t be able to have a knife of any size on me. Yet I can’t because joe bloggs thinks the knife itself is the issue, the issue is the person and they clearly just use a kitchen knife (mostly because they’re cheap and easy to get) anyway and any ban on knives only has an effect on people who would never use them for bad actions anyway. If I wanted to carry a knife and stab someone I would regardless of the law and we see this time and time again. We have the tightest knife laws today yet have the stabbing stopped? No, they’re probably worse than ever in London!

    Kids over London carry them and it’s even ‘cooler’ to do so because they’re illegal weapons. I watched a met police chase vid the other day and police caught a moped thief kid and as he ran he threw a large knife (size of a machete) surely he shouldn’t have had that on him as it’s banned!


    The Paris shootings... first press response and fuss.. we should tighten gun laws and persecute law abiding people more. Lots of interviews on the street “why do we need these guns” blah blah blah. Yes, brilliant! The criminals who obtained illegally sourced AK47’s would never have got them if we had tighter gun laws for responsible shooters using guns that are nothing like AK47’s. Why can’t people see the two are not connected?

    If someone smothers someone with a pillow why is there not a public outcry to ban pillows? Or someone gets strangled, let’s ban the use of hands around other people’s necks! It’s just a ridiculous to suggest that as banning knife carry or guns.

    The majority of people are brainwashed by the media to think the objects are the problem, they’re not it’s the people behind them. Get to the root of the issue!
    Well said, if I want to carry a knife on me for lawful reasons, then I should be allowed to.

  33. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackal View Post
    Wearing an imitation explosive vest, I heard - as soon as seen, wouldn’t surprise me if they have a policy of immediate shot to the head.
    The idea of shots to the head is to destroy the brain, which 'freezes' muscle action. For example if someone is pressing down on a trigger, destroying the input from the brain would keep the switch down. Or if not on the switch would stop it being depressed. Therefore not detonating a bomb (vest).

  34. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve27752 View Post
    The idea of shots to the head is to destroy the brain, which 'freezes' muscle action. For example if someone is pressing down on a trigger, destroying the input from the brain would keep the switch down. Or if not on the switch would stop it being depressed. Therefore not detonating a bomb (vest).
    Pretty sure that catastrophic damage to the brain might stop someone pressing a trigger, but would it really keep a finger down if it was already pressing. Seems pretty unlikely.

  35. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andyg View Post
    I blame Boris, the Met Police, the Prison system, the Law, Epstein, Prince Andrew, the bankers, and those who voted for Brexit.
    THATCHER! THE RUSSIANS! THE DAILY MAIL!

  36. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seamaster73 View Post
    THATCHER! THE RUSSIANS! THE DAILY MAIL!
    I so miss Griff.
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    Quote Originally Posted by HookedSeven View Post
    Pretty sure that catastrophic damage to the brain might stop someone pressing a trigger, but would it really keep a finger down if it was already pressing. Seems pretty unlikely.
    Yes, it would for long enough to disable/make safe a device, not as a long term thing.

  38. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by HookedSeven View Post
    Pretty sure that catastrophic damage to the brain might stop someone pressing a trigger, but would it really keep a finger down if it was already pressing. Seems pretty unlikely.
    I thought that too. There is no magic bullet to give instant rigor mortis. I understand the headshots to kill without setting off a suicide vest or or to disable the brain to prevent a switch being pressed, but not to keep a button held.

  39. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andyg View Post
    I blame Boris, the Met Police, the Prison system, the Law, Epstein, Prince Andrew, the bankers, and those who voted for Brexit. In fact blame everyone not carrying a knife and stabbing people in the name in their religion.
    I blame your mother for giving birth to you.

  40. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by wileeeeeey View Post
    I thought that too. There is no magic bullet to give instant rigor mortis. I understand the headshots to kill without setting off a suicide vest or or to disable the brain to prevent a switch being pressed, but not to keep a button held.
    The 'shot' is the one that takes out the medula oblongata, it instantly prevents any motor function.
    When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........

  41. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris_in_the_UK View Post
    The 'shot' is the one that takes out the medula oblongata, it instantly prevents any motor function.
    OK. If you shoot me halfway through a bicep curl would my arm keep the weight up in the air ?

  42. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris_in_the_UK View Post
    The 'shot' is the one that takes out the medula oblongata, it instantly prevents any motor function.
    Thank you, I could not remember the technical term.

  43. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris_in_the_UK View Post
    The 'shot' is the one that takes out the medula oblongata, it instantly prevents any motor function.
    That's really interesting. I just read this while looking up medulla oblongata - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flac...sis_(shooting)

    Makes sense but I'm not sure it will keep a dead man's switch trigger depressed. Interesting though.

  44. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by wileeeeeey View Post
    That's really interesting. I just read this while looking up medulla oblongata - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flac...sis_(shooting)

    Makes sense but I'm not sure it will keep a dead man's switch trigger depressed. Interesting though.
    Trust me, it does.

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  45. #95
    Quote Originally Posted by Andyg View Post
    Good to see Sadiq Khan making political capital out of this by blaming Tory cuts.
    It would appear he has a point.



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  46. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by HookedSeven View Post
    OK. If you shoot me halfway through a bicep curl would my arm keep the weight up in the air ?
    ??

    The shot is to the brain stem.
    When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........

  47. #97
    Craftsman HookedSeven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris_in_the_UK View Post
    ??

    The shot is to the brain stem.
    Yes I know. What you seem to be saying is that a contracted muscle will remain contracted (or away from its relaxed position) if you’re shot in a certain place.

    I’ve been googling Operation Kratos but can’t find anything that suggests that...

  48. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by jameswrx View Post
    Sorry but that’s the typical brainwashed public response.

    I can guarantee you after every thing like this or shootings like in Paris you could go up to people in the street and say “what about that terrorist shooting/stabbing, shouldn’t we ban knives/guns?” And the majority of people would say “yes, ban them it’s terrible”

    All it does is persecutes the decent shooter or knife enthusiast (yes, why shouldn’t people be into useful tools like knives!). The decent man gets everything taken away from them because of the general public thinking (naively) that they’re doing a good thing by helping ban ‘dangerous things’

    Really there is no logical reason why I (as someone who would never want to hurt an innocent person) shouldn’t be able to have a knife of any size on me. Yet I can’t because joe bloggs thinks the knife itself is the issue, the issue is the person and they clearly just use a kitchen knife (mostly because they’re cheap and easy to get) anyway and any ban on knives only has an effect on people who would never use them for bad actions anyway. If I wanted to carry a knife and stab someone I would regardless of the law and we see this time and time again. We have the tightest knife laws today yet have the stabbing stopped? No, they’re probably worse than ever in London!

    Kids over London carry them and it’s even ‘cooler’ to do so because they’re illegal weapons. I watched a met police chase vid the other day and police caught a moped thief kid and as he ran he threw a large knife (size of a machete) surely he shouldn’t have had that on him as it’s banned!


    The Paris shootings... first press response and fuss.. we should tighten gun laws and persecute law abiding people more. Lots of interviews on the street “why do we need these guns” blah blah blah. Yes, brilliant! The criminals who obtained illegally sourced AK47’s would never have got them if we had tighter gun laws for responsible shooters using guns that are nothing like AK47’s. Why can’t people see the two are not connected?

    If someone smothers someone with a pillow why is there not a public outcry to ban pillows? Or someone gets strangled, let’s ban the use of hands around other people’s necks! It’s just a ridiculous to suggest that as banning knife carry or guns.

    The majority of people are brainwashed by the media to think the objects are the problem, they’re not it’s the people behind them. Get to the root of the issue!
    I certainly haven't been brainwashed (how is this done BTW).

    No-one is taking (most) knives away from people they just aren't allowed to carry them in public. I for one am glad that my teenage son (and one slightly older) and peers weren't allowed to carry them whilst at school.

    Thugs with machetes will still carry them.

  49. #99
    Grand Master Chris_in_the_UK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HookedSeven View Post
    Yes I know. What you seem to be saying is that a contracted muscle will remain contracted (or away from its relaxed position) if you’re shot in a certain place.

    I’ve been googling Operation Kratos but can’t find anything that suggests that...
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flacci...sis_(shooting)

    https://www.quora.com/Where-do-you-h...-die-instantly

    https://www.guns.com/news/2012/01/31...ad-shots-video

    Operation Kratos was the Met Police Policy term for the 'shot'.
    When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........

  50. #100
    Quote Originally Posted by Andyg View Post
    You are aware that we have laws in place banning the carrying of knifes which doesn't seem to be working for some children between 10-16 either - perhaps because they (and or their parents) don't care either.
    We have laws against all sorts. Crimes still happen. :idiot:

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