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Thread: Ford vs Ferrari

  1. #1
    Grand Master SimonK's Avatar
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    Ford vs Ferrari

    This looks interesting. Directed by the fella who made Logan and a couple of A listers in the cast too - Christian Bale, Matt Damon.




    https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1950186...m_hp_cap_pri_1

  2. #2
    Grand Master GraniteQuarry's Avatar
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    Never knew about this! Should be a cracker

  3. #3

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by adrianw View Post
    Ford won!
    They won the battle, but lost the war.....

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by RJM25R View Post
    They won the battle, but lost the war.....
    I don't understand that, they set out to beat Ferrari at la mans because Ferrari reneged on the sale.
    Last edited by adrianw; 3rd June 2019 at 14:33.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by adrianw View Post
    I don't understand that, they set out to beat Ferrari at la mans because Ferrari reneged on the sale.
    The ´war´ was winning at Le Mans and that they did in capital letters.

    One coúld make a case though for it all starting with Ford wanting to have a proper sports car range. It subsequently derailed because of Ferrari and after squashing all in Le Mans they never pursued the original purpose. Basically they never fought that war. The ´Pantera by Ford´was a .... well, an interesting marketing experiment resulting in a reliable exotic.
    Quite cool that is lived for 21, 22 years till well into the níneties!
    When the going gets tough, the DAF gets going.

  7. #7
    Master Seiko7A38's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SimonK View Post
    This looks interesting. Directed by the fella who made Logan and a couple of A listers in the cast too - Christian Bale, Matt Damon.

    Let's hope the cars / graphics are more accurate representations than the movie poster.
    Note the missing rad duct splitter for starters.

    But seriously looking forward to it all the same.

  8. #8
    Master Seiko7A38's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RJM25R View Post
    They won the battle, but lost the war.....
    Indeed. Revenge is a dish best served on the opposition's home turf. Daytona 24 Hours 1967. Ferrari 1-2-3.


  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by RJM25R View Post
    They won the battle, but lost the war.....
    Ford wanted to buy Ferrari, they couldn’t. They beat them in a race but they still couldn’t buy Ferrari, hence my comment.

  10. #10

  11. #11
    Master Seiko7A38's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by adrianw View Post
    Despite my misgivings about accuracy, I'm still very much looking forward to this movie.

    I noticed another version of the trailer had been uploaded to YouTube a couple of weeks ago:



    At 2:19, where Christian Bale (Ken Miles) says 'If this is were a beauty pageant, we just lost ...'



    The 'Ferrari P4' #21 (which is actually the 2nd place 1967 Le Mans car) looks incredibly like a Noble P4 replica !!

  12. #12
    Grand Master oldoakknives's Avatar
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    This is one to see I reckon!
    It's just democracy.

  13. #13
    Grand Master VDG's Avatar
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    I thought the episode was a common knowledge, anyway would be nice to see Hollywood dramatisation of it not that I think Matt Damien will be shortlisted for the Oscar for it ;)
    Fas est ab hoste doceri

  14. #14
    Master Seiko7A38's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VDG View Post
    I thought the episode was a common knowledge, anyway would be nice to see Hollywood dramatisation of it not that I think Matt Damien will be shortlisted for the Oscar for it ;)
    FTFY - Matt Damon.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Seiko7A38 View Post
    FTFY - Matt Damon.
    How could we forget?

    https://youtu.be/PajyQrpu26I

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by adrianw View Post
    Ford won!
    Spoiler alert! (front and rear)

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seiko7A38 View Post
    Despite my misgivings about accuracy, I'm still very much looking forward to this movie.

    I noticed another version of the trailer had been uploaded to YouTube a couple of weeks ago:



    At 2:19, where Christian Bale (Ken Miles) says 'If this is were a beauty pageant, we just lost ...'



    The 'Ferrari P4' #21 (which is actually the 2nd place 1967 Le Mans car) looks incredibly like a Noble P4 replica !!
    You mean like this Adrian IMG_6662.JPGIMG_6663.JPG


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  18. #18
    Journeyman
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    i knew the story of this before but looking forward to this looks like its gonna be good

  19. #19
    Master thieuster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seiko7A38 View Post
    Despite my misgivings about accuracy, I'm still very much looking forward to this movie.

    I noticed another version of the trailer had been uploaded to YouTube a couple of weeks ago:



    At 2:19, where Christian Bale (Ken Miles) says 'If this is were a beauty pageant, we just lost ...'



    The 'Ferrari P4' #21 (which is actually the 2nd place 1967 Le Mans car) looks incredibly like a Noble P4 replica !!
    Never mind: it's about speed, (classic) race cars, race fuel - or: high octane leaded fuel and Christian Bale is in it. I can't remember him performing under par in a movie. In short: a must-see!

  20. #20
    Craftsman
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    I'm sure I'll watch it but the trailer does make me think it will be rather cheesy.

  21. #21
    Master Seiko7A38's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by glyn696486 View Post
    You mean like this Adrian IMG_6662.JPGIMG_6663.JPG
    Yup. Though I'm not sure whose car it is. (I used to run the P4 Replica Register - had 120 plus cars logged worldwide). It isn't my ex-car.

    The giveaway, particularly in that shot, is how much deeper the doors are cut into the roofline to aid access / egress, compared to the original Ferrari P3 and P4 berlinettas. Hence the much deeper side windows. There's also a distinct absence of detail on the radiator opening on that one - no small upper lip vents or vertical splitter. Here's an old photo of my ex-car, showing the aforementioned.

    Last edited by Seiko7A38; 4th October 2019 at 12:43.

  22. #22
    Master Seiko7A38's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fianoglach View Post
    i knew the story of this before but looking forward to this looks like its gonna be good
    FWIW, the Independant reviewer doesn't seem to think so.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-e...-a9099661.html


    Ford v Ferrari first-look review, Toronto Film Festival: Undercooked and unconvincing – but a must for petrolheads

  23. #23
    I a petrolhead and motor racing fan so it will be a must watch for me but I suspect that going by the trailers, it will be very, very loosely based on true events and it appears that they've mashed some stories together to make a Murica vs Bad Guys movie.

  24. #24
    Grand Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by VDG View Post
    I thought the episode was a common knowledge, anyway would be nice to see Hollywood dramatisation of it
    Why?
    You like a parody of history?
    I will not be watching it.
    When the going gets tough, the DAF gets going.

  25. #25
    Grand Master VDG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huertecilla View Post
    Why?
    You like a parody of history?
    I will not be watching it.
    Did I say dramatisation? I meant to say comedisation P. You know what, I’m thinking to go to the premier and walk out in a middle of the movie making loud pfffffff noises and shouting rùbbish while giving two finger salute with both hands.
    Fas est ab hoste doceri

  26. #26
    I'll be watching this as a lover of motorsport and especially this period, though how true it will be it seems not... But the sound and sites should be amazing!

  27. #27
    Master Seiko7A38's Avatar
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    Couple of 'behind the scenes' videos uploaded to YouTube last week

    Couple of 'behind the scenes' videos uploaded to YouTube last week:





    The fake Ferraris look even less convincing in a couple of shots.
    Last edited by Seiko7A38; 10th November 2019 at 18:02. Reason: Adding another variation ....

  28. #28
    Craftsman
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    Is this the same movie as Le Mans 66? Presumably just a different title for US vs European audiences


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  29. #29
    Master Seiko7A38's Avatar
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    It appears to be:


  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by stuie-t View Post
    Is this the same movie as Le Mans 66? Presumably just a different title for US vs European audiences


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    Correct. But not sure why. Maybe Americans don't recognise Le Mans as easily.

  31. #31
    Master SeanST150's Avatar
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    I saw this last week, it is an enjoyable watch and really does paint Ferrari as the bad guys, but being Hollywood I'm sure you'll be expecting that.

    There's not much to be enjoyed in the film unless you are a petrolhead and find the underlying true story interesting.

  32. #32
    Master AlphaOmega's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seiko7A38 View Post
    Here's an old photo of my ex-car, showing the aforementioned.

    If ever you have the time, it would be great to hear about your experiences in owning such a car.

  33. #33
    Grand Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by SeanST150 View Post
    I saw this last week, it is an enjoyable watch and really does paint Ferrari as the bad guys, but being Hollywood I'm sure you'll be expecting that.

    There's not much to be enjoyed in the film unless you are a petrolhead and find the underlying true story interesting.

    Anyone going should imo first read https://www.sportscardigest.com/1967...-race-profile/
    When the going gets tough, the DAF gets going.

  34. #34
    Apprentice
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    Christian Bales accent though...

  35. #35
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    The Top Gear/Grand Tour programme still does something well: I thought this piece on the Ford vs Ferrari story was excellent.

    Last edited by sean; 11th November 2019 at 20:18.

  36. #36
    Grand Master SimonK's Avatar
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    This DVD is worth a fiver of your hard-earned


  37. #37
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    The ´american best in the wold´ around the GT40 and Cobra, spilling over to the Mustang is imo nauseating.
    And that is just cars...
    Blinkered morons.
    When the going gets tough, the DAF gets going.

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huertecilla View Post
    The ´american best in the wold´ around the GT40 and Cobra, spilling over to the Mustang is imo nauseating.
    And that is just cars...
    Blinkered morons.
    It, of course, depends on how you define "best", but in '66 the GT40 was the fastest LM car, and the Cobra was the fastest road car.

  39. #39
    Master thieuster's Avatar
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    It's all entertainment and not the Definite Book on 60s Motoring History. Of course it's historical incorrect and / or condensed. Name me one movie that's historically correct from the beginning to the end. And yes one needs a protagonist and an antagonist. It's not more that 2 hrs between start and finish. Who cares! Just sit back, buckle up and enjoy the ride!

    Menno

  40. #40
    Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by thieuster View Post
    It's all entertainment and not the Definite Book on 60s Motoring History. Of course it's historical incorrect and / or condensed. Name me one movie that's historically correct from the beginning to the end. And yes one needs a protagonist and an antagonist. It's not more that 2 hrs between start and finish. Who cares! Just sit back, buckle up and enjoy the ride!

    Menno
    Goodfellas

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by nunya View Post
    It, of course, depends on how you define "best", but in '66 the GT40 was the fastest LM car, and the Cobra was the fastest road car.
    Only the GT40 that left some speed on the table got to the end tow in.
    Only 56 of thise fastest Cobras were produced and mostly myth blown over from straight road heaven.

    The current crop of Mustangs is imo a real good car. Sporty even and well handling. Quite an impressive feat for mass production Detroit in this age of restrictive legislation. The base non tarted up ones are relatively compact, sleek. I like them. They can well do without the burden of stupid americanised movie myth.
    Oh; and I am not anti US cars nor anti-mustang; I owned a Mach1 and an ´83 sedan.
    When the going gets tough, the DAF gets going.

  42. #42
    Master
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    I understood that the Mark 1 GT 40 which won in 1966 was designed and built by Lola Cars in this country?

  43. #43
    Master Seiko7A38's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JeremyO View Post
    I understood that the Mark 1 GT 40 which won in 1966 ....
    It was the 7-litre MkII which won in '66.

    Quote Originally Posted by JeremyO View Post
    .... was designed and built by Lola Cars in this country?
    The original Mk 1 GT40 was built in UK (effectively by Lola Cars, based on the design of the Lola GT). Per extract from the Wikipedia Ford GT40 article:

    The Lola proposal was chosen, since Lola had used a Ford V8 engine in their mid-engined Lola Mk6 (also known as Lola GT). It was one of the most advanced racing cars of the time, and made a noted performance in Le Mans 1963, even though the car did not finish, due to low gearing and slow revving out on the Mulsanne Straight. However, Eric Broadley, Lola Cars' owner and chief designer, agreed on a short-term personal contribution to the project without involving Lola Cars.[10]The agreement with Broadley included a one-year collaboration between Ford and Broadley, and the sale of the two Lola Mk 6 chassis builds to Ford. To form the development team, Ford also hired the ex-Aston Martin team manager John Wyer.[11] Ford Motor Co. engineer Roy Lunn was sent to England; he had designed the mid-engined Mustang I concept car powered by a 1.7-liter V4. Despite the small engine of the Mustang I, Lunn was the only Dearborn engineer to have some experience with a mid-engined car.
    Overseen by Harley Copp, the team of Broadley, Lunn and Wyer began working on the new car at the Lola Factory in Bromley. At the end of 1963 the team moved to Slough, near Heathrow Airport. Ford then established Ford Advanced Vehicles Ltd, a new subsidiary under the direction of Wyer, to manage the project.[11]
    The first chassis built by Abbey Panels of Coventry was delivered on 16 March 1964, with fibre-glass mouldings produced by Fibre Glass Engineering Ltd of Farnham. The first "Ford GT" the GT/101 was unveiled in England on 1 April and soon after exhibited in New York.
    Last edited by Seiko7A38; 13th November 2019 at 01:26.

  44. #44
    Grand Master PickleB's Avatar
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    From that same wiki page:

    • the Mk I, Mk II, and Mk III model cars being based upon the British Lola Mk6, and were designed and built in England, while the GT40 Mk IV model was designed and built in the United States

    • The GT40 won the 24 Hours of Le Mans three consecutive times, from 1966 to 1969 (1966 being the Mk II, 1967 the Mk IV, and 1968–1969 the oldest chassis design, the Mk I)

    • he Mk IV GT40 that won Le Mans in 1967 is the only car designed and built entirely in the United States to achieve the overall win at Le Mans



    Incidentally, I'd seen several mediocre reviews for the film but today I saw the trailer in the cinema and found a 4* review from Empire...link. It's now on my list of films to go and see.
    Last edited by PickleB; 13th November 2019 at 01:43.

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seiko7A38 View Post
    It was the 7-litre MkII which won in '66.



    The original Mk 1 GT40 was built in UK (effectively by Lola Cars, based on the design of the Lola GT). Per extract from the Wikipedia Ford GT40 article:

    And then Ford stíll needed a 7 litre big block to ´manufacture´ a Ferrari beating fleet of ´Ford´s ....
    When the going gets tough, the DAF gets going.

  46. #46
    Master Seiko7A38's Avatar
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    Perhaps not such a Noble effort ....

    Quote Originally Posted by Seiko7A38 View Post
    The 'Ferrari P4' #21 (which is actually the 2nd place 1967 Le Mans car) looks incredibly like a Noble P4 replica !!
    Quote Originally Posted by Seiko7A38 View Post
    Yup. Though I'm not sure whose car it is. (I used to run the P4 Replica Register - had 120 plus cars logged worldwide). It isn't my ex-car.
    I had been wondering, as the bulk of the racing footage was shot in the States, if the P4 replicas might be something other than Nobles.

    They are. See: http://race-car-replicas.com/ford-vs-ferrari-project (although Fran Hall doesn't specifically claim the P4's were his).

    So, as Ford did five decades ago, the movie folks went to a small company run by a Brit to make suitable cars. Except that this Brit and his company was right here in Detroit instead of England. Race Car Replicas (RCR), based in Fraser Michigan (a Detroit suburb) built 28 cars for the movie, including camera cars, and all of the cars in the action sequences. In fact, they made not only the Ford GT40 replicas used in the action sequences, they even made the 1958 replica Ferrari Formula 1 cars, as well as the replica Ferrari 275s.* RCR builds a wide range of replicas and original designs here in Detroit, including replicas of the Ford GT40, Porsche 917 and 962, Jaguar D-Type and XJ-13, and many more.
    *The 1966 P3's (and 1967 P4's) were designated 330P (not 275s).
    Last edited by Seiko7A38; 14th November 2019 at 12:12. Reason: Is that what Fran meant ?

  47. #47
    Master Seiko7A38's Avatar
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    I'd opine that Fran is to be congratulated on his efforts to replicate all the different variants of GT40 used in the movie.
    I'm now convinced that the P4 replicas used in the movie (to represent the 1966 P3's) are indeed his RCR P4 product.
    The giveaway (say compared to Noble, Foreman or Bailey (ZA) P4 replicas, being the exposed twin quick release fillers on their scuttles.

    Quote Originally Posted by Seiko7A38 View Post
    The fake Ferraris look even less convincing in a couple of shots.
    Perhaps it was in his brief or budget, but it's a pity he didn't pay a bit more attention to detail on the Ferrari's.
    The classic gaffe being the travesty meant to represent the NART entered #27 car driven by Pedro Rodriguez / Richie Ginther ....



    Which was of course an open spyder, not a berlinetta. See: https://www.racingsportscars.com/typ.../330%20P3.html

    Last edited by Seiko7A38; 14th November 2019 at 12:13.

  48. #48
    Master snowman's Avatar
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    I went to see the film last night and greatly enjoyed it.

    Oddly, it wasn't the race scenes that struck me as the best part (I don't think they're as good as those in Rush, for example, and some seemed a tad over dramatised), although the finale at Le Mans is very well portrayed on and off track, I think.

    The relationship between Miles and Shelby was excellently portrayed, there was definite chemistry between Bale and Damon, and the actress playing Miles' wife was pleasantly understated in her performance (except in one scene). The young actor playing Peter Miles was also very good, I thought.

    One of the things that really impressed me were the scenes of the 1966 Le Mans circuit. The pits looked totally realistic, although, of course, they are now long gone and it seems they constructed a replica for it.

    This article - https://www.latimes.com/entertainmen...ford-v-ferrari - explains a lot about the locations used (Try not to laugh when you read about 'Le Mans Village', although I guess compared to the horrible urban sprawl that is LA, it's not far off).

    Which brings me to the only thing that really jarred - There's a scene where Miles sets off from his hotel by the Cathedral and, seemingly, walks to the circuit. It's not impossible, but it's a bloody long walk!

    It's quite a funny flim, too, at times, which quite surprised (and pleased) me.

    I can live with less than 100% accurate replica cars and missing out the year Miles raced for Ford at Le Mans and didn't win, because the story is a good one, worth telling and it's told well, within the confines of a 2.5 hour movie, yes there's plenty of 'artistic licence', but the heart of the story is there and true.

    M
    Last edited by snowman; 21st November 2019 at 10:14.

  49. #49
    Easy to pick up on inaccuracies with films like this......

    Quote Originally Posted by snowman View Post
    Which brings me to the only thing that really jarred - There's a scene where Miles sets off from his hotel by the Cathedral and, seemingly, walks to the circuit. It's not impossible, but it's a bloody long walk!
    but yes - that one made me smile too.
    Last edited by andy tims; 21st November 2019 at 12:56.
    Andy

    Wanted - Damasko DA38 or DC80 Green - not the black versions. Bell & Ross BR03-92 Nightlum

  50. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by nunya View Post
    Goodfellas
    no. lots of incorrect cars/planes/licence plates/barcodes on cigarette packs/wrong drug pill colour and probably a few others.

    that said anyone wanting to pick a film apart for factual inaccuracy is probably better off reading instruction manuals or encyclopaedias for entertainment instead of going to the cinema.

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