closing tag is in template navbar
timefactors watches



TZ-UK Fundraiser
Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 51 to 100 of 102

Thread: Dad or Grandad’s watch ... do you have yours?

  1. #51
    Master
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    Unknown
    Posts
    5,712
    Blog Entries
    1
    Quote Originally Posted by snowman View Post
    ... but sadly he didn't have an early Sub to buy my son a flat with!

    M
    I wonder if anyone here has inherited a nice 5513 or similar ... I guess the reality is few people wore dive watches in the 60s & 70s ...

  2. #52
    Master
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Sunny Manchester
    Posts
    1,288
    I have my Grandad's watch issued to him when he served in the Kings Royal Rifle Corps, WW1.
    Unfortunately it's not running at present, something l need to rectify if possible.

    Sent from my Moto G (5) using Tapatalk

  3. #53
    Grand Master Carlton-Browne's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Berlin, London and sometimes Dublin
    Posts
    14,907
    Quote Originally Posted by pinpull View Post
    I've been unable to get the Zodiac up and running due (I'm told by another source) to the poor availability of parts, or donor watches.


    Maybe it's worth a separate thread - it might flush out some advice or somebody might be sitting on some spares.
    In the Sotadic Zone, apparently.

  4. #54
    Grand Master MartynJC (UK)'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Somewhere else
    Posts
    12,336
    Blog Entries
    22
    I do wonder if this question will be asked in 20-30years time??

    Anyway I have my Dad’s Air-King-Date from 1978.

  5. #55
    Craftsman boris9's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Location
    East Anglia, UK
    Posts
    551
    My Dad passed away around 18 months ago and in the years leading up to his passing I had got him interested in mechanical watches. He’d always worn a watch, but wasn’t overly bothered by the details us WIS get involved in.

    However, as a result of his growing interest, my Mum and I chipped in together and bought him a watch for Father’s Day a few years ago now. The watch was a C60 Trident in 38mm which he really loved and he wore it everyday.

    Today, the watch still sits with my Mum and the intention is we will give it to my Son as his first proper watch when he comes of age. Thankfully my Son got to meet his granddad before he left us, but being only 2 now he’s got a wait on his hands before he gets the watch.

    Hopefully he’s got an even longer wait before getting his hands on my collection and specifically the Sub I was wearing when he was born.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  6. #56
    Master pinpull's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Kingdom of Fife
    Posts
    1,395
    Quote Originally Posted by Carlton-Browne View Post
    Maybe it's worth a separate thread - it might flush out some advice or somebody might be sitting on some spares.
    Thank you for that suggestion, I will certainly give it a try!


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  7. #57
    Grand Master Wallasey Runner's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Wirral - North West England
    Posts
    15,264
    Unfortunately not, my dad's watch went to my older brother, first son and heir and all that. I do have his wedding ring though.

    The watch was a 9ct gold dress watch presented to him for 25 years service at Vauxhall. I don't think my brother wears it.

  8. #58
    Craftsman
    Join Date
    Nov 2019
    Location
    Bristol
    Posts
    369
    My Dad's got a hideous fake Rolex from Mexico. Can't wait to get my hands on that...

  9. #59
    Master
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    Unknown
    Posts
    5,712
    Blog Entries
    1
    Quote Originally Posted by Wallasey Runner View Post
    Unfortunately not, my dad's watch went to my older brother, first son and heir and all that. I do have his wedding ring though.

    The watch was a 9ct gold dress watch presented to him for 25 years service at Vauxhall. I don't think my brother wears it.
    Maybe suggest a swap with your brother? If he knows your interest in watches he may go for that

  10. #60
    Master
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    Unknown
    Posts
    5,712
    Blog Entries
    1
    Quote Originally Posted by MartynJC (UK) View Post
    I do wonder if this question will be asked in 20-30years time??
    Who knows, we can only hope. It’s down to us to educate the next generation.

  11. #61
    Grand Master Wallasey Runner's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Wirral - North West England
    Posts
    15,264
    Quote Originally Posted by Montello View Post
    Maybe suggest a swap with your brother? If he knows your interest in watches he may go for that
    Thanks, that might be an idea. I'll give it some thought.

  12. #62
    Grand Master
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Wakefield, West Yorkshire
    Posts
    22,498
    My grandad’s gold pocket watch ended up with one of my cousins, grandad was like a father to him so I understand why he left him the watch, but I doubt whether it sees the light if day too often. I’d like to own it but I won’t, the fact that I’m a watch enthusiast is far outweighed by the sentimental links.

  13. #63
    Craftsman
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Location
    Scotland
    Posts
    314
    I think I may have posted this before. I don't ever remember my grandad wearing a watch but he was an amateur sprinter and my dad recently gave me his old stopwatch.

  14. #64
    Journeyman
    Join Date
    Feb 2019
    Location
    Buckinghamshire, UK
    Posts
    63
    I have a watch that I bought from my dad, it's a Tag Hueur Targa Florio (a 2003 edition if i recall). This thread has prompted me to ask my dad if he has any of his dads watches though! :D

  15. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by K300 View Post
    Well I've just learned something, I never knew Sekonda were originally made in the USSR.
    This thread has got me thinking, I have a grotty 1970s USSR Sekonda that was my dad’s. He wasn’t materialistic and left virtually nothing.

    Does anybody know or recommend a watchmaker for servicing Sekondas or Russian watches?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  16. #66
    My grandad's watch. He bought it about a year before I was born (I have the receipt) and I remember him wearing it until he died when I was about 10.

    I wore it on my wedding day and at his wife's (my grandmother's) funeral.


  17. #67
    Master
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    Unknown
    Posts
    5,712
    Blog Entries
    1
    I opened this thread with my dad's watch ...

    This is my Grandad's watch which was brought up to this condition by Paul Walker; thanks again Paul as this looks great now.

    Omega Seamaster - 1965
    [url=https://postimg.cc/image/eik65v2zf/]
    [/url<https://s17.postimg.org/zfgeaj10f/seamaster_1965.jpg%5b/img%5d%5b/url>]

  18. #68
    Master pinpull's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Kingdom of Fife
    Posts
    1,395
    Quote Originally Posted by Montello View Post
    I opened this thread with my dad's watch ...

    This is my Grandad's watch which was brought up to this condition by Paul Walker; thanks again Paul as this looks great now.

    Omega Seamaster - 1965
    [url=https://postimg.cc/image/eik65v2zf/]
    [/url<https://s17.postimg.org/zfgeaj10f/seamaster_1965.jpg%5b/img%5d%5b/url>]
    Gorgeous!


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  19. #69
    [QUOTE=Wibbs;5256869]I caught the watch bug early because my dad collected watches himself, which was fairly oddball at the time. :) So I'm lucky I have a couple of his.

    He got this in the early 80's. I remember it being "mad money" at the time. Tiny by today's standards but still looks like new.


    OMG, I haven't seen one of these for years.
    I remember buying one in the early 80's when the "Quartz Bug" had really taken off.
    I wasn't so knowledgeable about watches back then, and was sucked in by the "Very High Precision" (VHP) that guaranteed that the watch would be accurate to about 15 seconds, I think per year!
    If I remember correctly it cost around £800-£900 and what made it even worst is that I sold my S/S Rolex Sub to get it..........................
    Eventually, I gave it to my brother as he was without a watch. He didn't take good care of it and the watch got water in it and that was that!

  20. #70
    Craftsman
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Location
    Hants UK
    Posts
    269
    Quote Originally Posted by Montello View Post
    I opened this thread with my dad's watch ...

    This is my Grandad's watch which was brought up to this condition by Paul Walker; thanks again Paul as this looks great now.

    Omega Seamaster - 1965
    [url=https://postimg.cc/image/eik65v2zf/]
    [/url<https://s17.postimg.org/zfgeaj10f/seamaster_1965.jpg%5b/img%5d%5b/url>]
    Great doesn't do it justice, that is a beautiful thing to have.

  21. #71
    Craftsman
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Posts
    949
    Both my grandads watches...the Rotary was for best the Avia I'm guessing the beater.

    My nan passed them on to me after he passed.

    Not sure about age of either?

    The Avia still runs and keeps good time probably way overdue a service.

    Rotary has recently had a new battery.

  22. #72
    Master
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Ireland
    Posts
    1,035
    Quote Originally Posted by Montello View Post
    I wonder if anyone here has inherited a nice 5513 or similar ... I guess the reality is few people wore dive watches in the 60s & 70s ...
    An uncle of mine has a Blancpain FF he bought in the 60's while on holidays in Spain or France. He has it on an old spidel expanding hair catcher. He didn't know what it was or what it would be worth. I nearly hastened his mortal end when I told him a few years ago. No chance of me getting it though.

    Quote Originally Posted by Topcat30093 View Post
    OMG, I haven't seen one of these for years.
    I remember buying one in the early 80's when the "Quartz Bug" had really taken off.
    I wasn't so knowledgeable about watches back then, and was sucked in by the "Very High Precision" (VHP) that guaranteed that the watch would be accurate to about 15 seconds, I think per year!
    If I remember correctly it cost around £800-£900 and what made it even worst is that I sold my S/S Rolex Sub to get it..........................
    Eventually, I gave it to my brother as he was without a watch. He didn't take good care of it and the watch got water in it and that was that!
    Yeah, it was an expensive watch at the time. Clearly he was in the Ma's™ good books that year. Then again at the time vanishingly few people were into collecting "old watches". New was the thing for the most part. A mad figure, when a "good watch" was around the 2-300 quid mark. Usually a Seiko by that stage or a Rotary. I remember Rotary being very popular as a "good watch"*

    It's a tiny watch today, "ladies size", but when I wear it I forget about it entirely. Doesn't catch on anything, weighs nothing and the titanium oxide or whatever coating is on it seems impervious to time, runs for years on a battery and like you say is very accurate. It's easy to forget smaller watches are often much more practical. Which men in the past seemed to agree with. Over the course of the 20th century the average size of a man's watch ran from 30mm and sometimes smaller to 36mm and rarely larger.

    Case in point, I also got this Zenith from my dad.



    At 42mm never mind the big stick out crown he almost never wore it and getting a strap for it was hard work. It lived on a few cheap one piece nylon straps. I wore it a few times in the 80's and 90's and the looks I got when I did...




    *A school friend of mine worked in an auction house in the summers and I used to go along with pocket money to throw an envelope bid on any "old" watches that came up(cos I was too young to officially bid). Though I lusted after the the cool digitals which all my mates had I couldn't read them too easily(turns out I have dyscalculia, kinda dyslexia with numbers) and they were mostly out of my pocket money range. This is the early-mid 80's, but it seemed the only watches worth anything regardless of brand were the solid gold ones. I once bought a shoebox full of steel and plated watches for 20 quid. I got Omega, Smiths, Breitling, Rotary, Tudor and a few others back then. Mad how things change... Sadly I had no clue of many brands. It was just the names my dad knew or what were in the average jeweller shop windows. Lord knows what I passed on, gave away, or discarded. If someone had said IWC to me I'd have figured them to be a non English speaking tourist and would have pointed them in the direction of the nearest toilet. :)

  23. #73
    Craftsman Cornholio's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    Nottingham, UK
    Posts
    905
    Thank you for this thread, it has encouraged me to dig these out. My old man died when I was a baby, so I don't know the story behind the watches below. I like to imagine that he wore the M&S one for work, and that the MuDu was maybe an 18th or 21st present.

    I wasn't much taken with these when mum gave them to me several decades ago, but I have a different view on the now. I like the funky red second hand on the MuDu, and find myself wondering if M&S may have sourced their movements from Smiths.

    I hope to get them serviced and on my wrist in the new year



    Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk
    Last edited by Cornholio; 1st December 2019 at 00:12. Reason: Typo

  24. #74
    Master
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    Unknown
    Posts
    5,712
    Blog Entries
    1
    Some really interesting watches popping up here, a refreshing change from the usuals.

  25. #75
    One of my Dad's



    and one of my Great Grandads

    Andy

    Wanted - Damasko DC57

  26. #76
    Apprentice
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Location
    Bedfordshire
    Posts
    22
    Quote Originally Posted by andy tims View Post
    One of my Dad's



    and one of my Great Grandads

    cracking watches! love the shape of the omega

  27. #77
    I have my grandad's Omega Seamaster automatic from the 60's and my dad's Cyma hand wind - both wind and run still fine but cosmetically battered

    been meaning to get them fixed up to use but they are 34-36mm and a bit too small for me - just nice to have and keep them

    "sell them and buy something for the kids" my dad said when he gave them to me so one day might just do that

  28. #78
    Master
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Harrow
    Posts
    4,399
    Sort of!! When my father died I inherited his Rolex Datejust. Always intended to be mine, as he bought it on my birthday in 1957. When he died I passed it on to my son, along with the purchase papers, and the original timing papers it was supplied with. My father had it serviced by WoS, and I had some minor work done by Bedfords in Ruislip, who were amazed at the condition - the latter meant that my son has had it valued for insurance purposes at £14000.....
    I still (occasionally) wear my 21st birthday watch - an Omega Geneve Dynamic so coming up for 50 years old, and my son wears his 21st GP Ferrari Chrono, in rotation with his other watches.

  29. #79
    Master
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    Unknown
    Posts
    5,712
    Blog Entries
    1
    Quote Originally Posted by Xantiagib View Post
    I have my grandad's Omega Seamaster automatic from the 60's and my dad's Cyma hand wind - both wind and run still fine but cosmetically battered

    been meaning to get them fixed up to use but they are 34-36mm and a bit too small for me - just nice to have and keep them

    "sell them and buy something for the kids" my dad said when he gave them to me so one day might just do that
    Lets see some photos ...

  30. #80
    Craftsman
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Location
    Winchester
    Posts
    283
    I have my dad's '60s Seiko 5 Sports and my granddad's Rotary. Sadly neither works. I also had all of my mum' s watches, but the case they were in got stolen.

  31. #81
    Master
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    willington,UK
    Posts
    1,103
    i have my Irish grandfathers silver pocket watch,its a Aurora,made in the USA circa 1885.it hadnt worked for several decades so in the 1980's i had it repaired/serviced for my fathers birthday.it then had pride of place in my parents living room until they passed away and i inherited it in 2011.i had it serviced again by a good local watch maker.both times it was serviced i specified no restoration as every ding in the case all the chips and scatches to the glass are dear to me as i never met my irish grandfather,he died long before i was born.this watch is all that links him to me.it mainly resides in the safe but on every family occassion,weddings,christenings ect i wear it .then i think a little bit of my father and grandfather is there too..
    Last edited by greasemonkey; 5th December 2019 at 09:11. Reason: spelin

  32. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by Xantiagib View Post
    I have my grandad's Omega Seamaster automatic from the 60's and my dad's Cyma hand wind - both wind and run still fine but cosmetically battered

    been meaning to get them fixed up to use but they are 34-36mm and a bit too small for me - just nice to have and keep them

    "sell them and buy something for the kids" my dad said when he gave them to me so one day might just do that
    Quote Originally Posted by Montello View Post
    Lets see some photos ...
    aye indeed will have to fish them out the safe...

  33. #83
    Master PreacherCain's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    London, UK
    Posts
    3,932
    I’ve got a couple from my old man, who died five years ago on Monday.

    One that he wore every day that I can remember, an old (wary 1980s, at a guess) Citizen Crystron quartz that’s seriously beaten-up - the crystal is fogged and scratched, the plating has worn off the fluting on the bezel, and it’s all-in-all in a bit of a state. I took the battery out and have kept it for purely sentimental reasons: it’s not really my “thing”, style-wise, but it’s heavy with memories, and nice to have.

    (If anyone knows of a watchmaker who can service these and replace the seals and crystal, do shout - it might be nice to recommission it anyway.)


    The other was a present to him from my mum, after they’d been married a couple of years. It’s a 1972 Seamaster Cosmic 2000, and served as his everyday watch till it stopped running (I suspect lack of servicing plus a hard life!) and was replaced by good old reliable Japanese quartz... When dad was diagnosed as terminally ill, he exhumed the watch from a drawer somewhere, complete with the original paperwork, and gave it to me to look after.

    It was in a sorry state - wildly inaccurate and would only run for an hour or so before stopping; the fate mechanism didn’t work; the crystal was scratched and chipped; the case badly scarred; and the dial and hands were corroded. I sent it off for a full refurb at STS, including a sensitive case refinish which left some character but improved the look considerably. And now it ticks away happily in my collection.

    It’s odd: I don’t believe in god, or ghosts, or souls, or reincarnation. I fully accept that dad is dead and gone. Yet, despite that, I always reach for this watch if I feel I need a bit of a boost. If I’ve got a difficult day coming up or I’m just feeling low, I wear this (and sometimes the cufflinks in the second photo, which were also dad’s) and I feel better; I take comfort in knowing that I’m wearing something that my father wore well before I was born, and that will hopefully still be around and enjoyed long after I’m dead and gone myself.

    Jesus! That was an essay. TL;DR: my dad’s old Omega:




  34. #84
    Craftsman
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Cheshire
    Posts
    820
    My Dad was in the Navy man and boy and married my Mum in his mid-twenties. Saving up all his money (well everything he didn't spend on beer) and with some gambling winnings during an 18-month carrier based tour of Asia in the 1950's (HMS Theseus), he bought a pair of matching solid gold Omegas for him and his new bride. My Mum still has hers - a tiny 5p piece sized delicate thing with a mother-of-pearl face almost impossible to see unless you're really sharp eyed. My Dad wore his on a night out to a formal event in Singapore where he was one of the ratings representing the ship's crew.

    On the way back to the boat a friend of his was involved in an altercation and a crowd gathered to watch the fight. Jumping in with both feet, as was my Dad's style, he threw himself into the melee but not before thinking that his watch may be damaged. Turning to another sailor watching the action he handed him the watch and said "look after this mate". And that's why I don't have my Dad's watch. He wore a series of cheap wind-up no-name watches for the rest of his life, never believing that investing money (again!) in a watch was worthwhile.

  35. #85
    Master alfat33's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Location
    London
    Posts
    6,198
    Quote Originally Posted by PreacherCain View Post
    Jesus! That was an essay. TL;DR: my dad’s old Omega:
    Thanks for posting such a personal story. What a treasure that Omega is.

  36. #86
    This was my Grandfathers watch given to him on his 21 birthday




    My Grandfather below

    He is holding my Dad

    Here he is again as you see he went from Chief to Officer what we call in the US Navy a mustang. He was tough he was my Dads div officer my dad did some thing maybe drunk coming back to the ship he put him in the brig.
    Last edited by River Rat; 6th December 2019 at 20:14.

  37. #87
    Craftsman
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Here & There
    Posts
    899
    My grandad’s collection which he showed me recently. Sentimental value > monetary value!


  38. #88
    Grand Master
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Wakefield, West Yorkshire
    Posts
    22,498
    Top tip for owners of all those old 9ct gold watches.....give them a light rub with a rouge cloth and they’ll sparkle again. After several years even 18ct will benefit too.

  39. #89
    Craftsman
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    London
    Posts
    575

    Dad or Grandad’s watch ... do you have yours?

    I have my Dad’s old Speedmaster MK III. He bought it brand new in 1973 and wore it as his only watch until 1991.

    It then sat in a drawer until 2001. He had it fully serviced and gave it to me for my 21st that same year. I must admit, I don’t wear it very often due to its size and weight but I like having it in my collection.




    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Last edited by Watchfreek; 20th December 2019 at 10:55.

  40. #90
    Craftsman
    Join Date
    Jan 2018
    Location
    London
    Posts
    349
    I blame my father and grandfather for my obsession with watches.

    below my father's 1946 Longines 13ZN and below that my grandfather's VC 1937 "daily beater"...





  41. #91
    My dad has a considerably better collection than I do. Various vintage Air Kings, 16710, Speedy Pro, 300mcoax, Speedy Broad Arrow, Omega Ranchero, Rose gold Reverso, Breitling Emergency, Breitling Aerospace, Bremont MB 1.25, to name a few. Pretty much all bought from TZ!

    He is still very much with us and enjoying them which is nice.

  42. #92
    Master nibby's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    North Wilts
    Posts
    2,511
    I have my Dads watch a Smiths Deluxe A325 that my Mother gave to him as an engagement present, he wore it for years before it stopped and was put in a drawer.
    As a child I remember him winding it, and my Mum saying that others commenting that it was the size of a clock (it is only 38mm).
    It was like this;


    After a visit to Brendan (Webwatchmaker) it looks like this;



    I weat it periodically and it keeps good time not bad for a 61 year old watch.

  43. #93
    Master
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    1,513
    Quote Originally Posted by ged View Post
    She has my mum's 21st birthday present. It probably came from a porn shop because it's hallmark is 1938, when she was 11.
    I think in the circ/s the record should show that this was more likely to have been from a pawn shop ...

  44. #94
    Master
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Location
    Edinburgh
    Posts
    3,040
    Blog Entries
    1
    My grandfather worked for J Lyons group at the Strand Palace Hotel in London for just over 40 years - this was his retirement watch.


    Last edited by Scepticalist; 7th January 2020 at 20:42.

  45. #95
    Craftsman
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Up north
    Posts
    738
    Quote Originally Posted by Tom-P View Post
    I think in the circ/s the record should show that this was more likely to have been from a pawn shop ...
    Oops yes indeed. She would have laughed!

    Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

  46. #96
    Craftsman
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Up north
    Posts
    738
    Quote Originally Posted by ged View Post
    Oops yes indeed. She would have laughed!

    Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk
    Somehow deleted the post rather than edit. So here's the photo again.


    Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

  47. #97
    Master
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Sheffield, South Yorkshire
    Posts
    1,879
    Quote Originally Posted by Progressive View Post
    My grandad’s collection which he showed me recently. Sentimental value > monetary value!

    Lovely and brings back memories.
    My Dad had the same Avia which is still in the family.
    Great looking watch.

  48. #98
    Master
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    Unknown
    Posts
    5,712
    Blog Entries
    1
    Some great tales and watches on this thread.

    These watches are the seeds of our interest in watches

  49. #99
    Journeyman
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    Hants, UK
    Posts
    84
    I have both my dad’s and grandad’s both are Bulova and we’re presented after 25 years working for the same company. Need to get both serviced but probably will never wear them as a bit on the small size for me.

  50. #100
    Grand Master
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    North
    Posts
    18,927
    Blog Entries
    2
    My dad is still alive and thanks to being exposed to me for years is building up quite a collection of his own. He and I end up sharing watches so whenever i go see him i take one of mine and borrow one of his, which is quite nice.
    I have my mums watches though, a tissot prs16 which she ran over with a car and animalone restored to working because he's a gem, 2 quartz tissots, and a tiny gold manual wind omega that she was given by my grandparents on her 21st. its so small that the strap doesnt even go round my wrist, let alone be bucklable.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Do Not Sell My Personal Information