Reply With QuoteMy local PP AD confirmed this was the case for PP a couple of years ago when I joined the waiting list for a Nautilus.
An interesting article from Watchpro.
https://www.watchpro.com/its-officia...s-of-flippers/
My local PP AD confirmed this was the case for PP a couple of years ago when I joined the waiting list for a Nautilus.
“ In the UK, it is common practice for Rolex dealers to hold back warranty cards for two years. WatchPro has seen highly secure safes dedicated to storing these warranties, such is their value.”
This made me chuckle based on other threads here, probably chucked in a draw in reality. I must make the effort to collect the cards I’m owed!
Originally Posted by Gerald Genta
Still plenty of brand new unworn Patek nautilus, aquanaut and Rolex landing on the doorsteps of the usual grey dealers. Not quite sure how the AD’s who say they enforce this policy could give an explanation for this, as these models are being allocated to supposedly non flip clients.
Must be some long lists!!
Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.
What an extraordinary thread! I fondly imagined operating a cartel was illegal.
One must have a quite extraordinary lack of faith in one's products' true value to operate such a cynically manipulative and protectionist market for them...
On the contrary, I think it's because they do have faith in their products, and their obvious popularity, that enables the markets to operate the way they do.
Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.
I think it might be because they’re losing faith in the ability to sell keeper watches to their customers. There’s so many SS sports Rolex that have been flipped on to the pre-owned market now that it almost looks at odds with the scarcity and waiting list situation you get at the ADs.
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What a load of old toot.
But that isn't faith, that's complacency verging on contempt for the consumer. It's wanting your bread buttered both sides. I'm out of date with UK consumer laws, but I suspect it breaches at least one, not to mention GDPR.
I understand the need to control supply to maintain (excessively) high prices with luxury goods, hardly unique to watches. But when you try to control the after-sales market with things like this, and also prosecuting modifiers, you are moving into urinary extraction mode... (IMVHO!)
I don't think Rolex are 'controlling supply' as such. It's just demand outstrips supply at the moment. TBH I think the article is a load of camel poo. ADs simply sell to people who spend the most IMO.
Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.
Everyone who sells relatively-attainable luxury goods has to try to control supply, otherwise your very-expensively-obtained brand positioning is rapidly undermined by having your product appear in dump-bin outlets &c. Rolex (via their ADs) are notorious for manipulating potential customers to establish their dedication to the brand by purchasing less-desirable models before they are allowed near the more desirable stuff. Porsche do almost exactly the same - want a GT3 RS? Tough, unless you have a track-record of buying lesser models, and don't mind an uncertain wait while Porsche sit on your very-large deposit, you have less than no chance.
Slumping further into anecdotage, I have a (now dim-and-distant) background in geology and palaeontology, and in the mid 90's was part of a large research team engaged by a global gemstone corporation to find permanent and affordable ways to destroy unwanted inventory, notably inferior stones - the sort of thing that could find a market (and once did if you look at older settings), but which now is kept off the market altogether to maintain the uniformity, value and desirability of primary production. I'm quite certain this sort of strategy is far from unique.
How long would you say Rolex have been pursuing this policy of people having to have some kind of buying history? Or do you mean ADs policy?
Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.
Oh the irony of getting a chrono24 ad while reading the article
This article can’t be for real right? If you buy a watch from a retailer, pretty sure it would be breaking GDPR for them to give your name to the manufacturer for starters... so how are they getting these lists of names? Sounds highly illegal to me
My AD takes a photo of the warranty card, watch and receipt and sends it to Rolex. (Then keeps the card) hahaha
Yes, think it's always been like this.
I don’t think there is any evidence of Rolex decreasing production at all, no matter how loudly delusionals claim it is so.
It is just that demand has increased for a myriad of reasons and with that more watches have found their way into grey dealers’ hands. Haven’t seen any sensible person suggest that Rolex is throttling the supply.
There's little evidence for anything concerning Rolex since they're famously careful to separate customers from facts. Another way you maintain the sanctity of prestige brands, of course. For sure demand has increased, and in truth I'd be surprised if production hasn't increased as well, it's more a case of wondering where it's all going, and why...
The truth in cases like this is usually nuanced. You don't have to look far to find complaints by Rolex customers concerning manufacturing defects, poor customer service, indifferent servicing, usurious pricing of essential components etc. That stuff erodes the shine bestowed by all that expensive marketing. All the time your competitors are racing to catch-up. Desirability tends to exist in inverse proportion to availability, so turn down the taps a bit, and turn-up the price tags and you have a useful counter to those little lads loudly testifying to imperial-nudity...
Meanwhile the Far Eastern market is experiencing the biggest bubble of demand ever - they have money now, and with ~3 billion people, there are probably as many millionaires in that market as there are people in Britain - and they all want a nice brash, shiny, blatantly-obvious symbol of their wealth... That's an important market - your most important... So stuff the few dozen plebs in the rainwashed wilderness of Britain, and divert your resources Eastwards. Be daft not to.
That said, Hans Wildorf Foundation is a big and exceptionally well-resourced manufactory (which cheekily operates as a charity!). Informed speculation posits that they produced in the region of a million wristwatches a few years ago. Supply problems have existed longer than that. Odd, then, if you think about it, that the hardest-to-obtain watches are the ones with little or no manual input in production - curious that supply cannot be increased to meet demand in those cases, don't you think? Unless of course that's exactly what you want...
Hmmm... Now where's my tinfoil titfer...
Exactly what has happened to Apple in the last few years and continues to do so.
The difference with Rolex being that they have put Tudor into the market to compete with the competitors who are catching up.
Will be interesting to see what happens in the next few years.
The whole field is so full of contradictions that it makes my head hurt.
Rolex is entirely built as a brand, built to be able to charge more than its goods are inherently worth.
They need to offer some kind of value, providing good quality items is not enough to justify their prices.
The best way to do that is to restrict supply at the same time as fluffing the brand, so that demand ensures that used values remain equal to the initial cost.
This makes the intitial cost easy to bear, it is "money in the bank" for the buyer.
Rolex do this. There can be no argument over this, they simply choose not to produce the numbers that are demanded. They are by no means the only one to do so, it happens everywhere there is a premium brand with an iconic product. Watches, handbags, cars, wine.
But, there is no way to have that value established other than a secondary market.
The grey market simply must exist in order to create the value proposition that Rolex make themselves.
This grey or secondary market has got more heated recently, it seems Rolex (and others) have a tiger by the tail, and it is inflating prices by more than they probably intended.
Certainly by more than many people think to be sensible.
As a result, there seem to be more speculators in that market, simply buying to sell, and trousering a few grand in the process.
Suddenly Rolex cries foul and starts rying to restrict the secondary market? The one they need to be there. The one they feed, but can now no longer control.
So they try and control it by restricting provision of the papers with a new watch.
Who cares? This has proved pointless. Has this cooled demand, now that it is almost common practice when it was unheard of a short while ago? Have prices dropped? No, not at all.
So now we hear that they have blacklists of people who sell their watches into the grey market, and therefore aren't to be sold to.
Doesn't matter to the brand, there is a queue round the block for the right watches, and the next guy will certainly buy it.
And they may well sell their new watch too. Are they going to be put off by a list that stops them buying another one? Maybe, but probably not. Depends entirely whether they love the watch, or love the idea of a few grand in their pocket.
The brand are not actually going to find out until the watch goes in for service anyhow, so they may go on "ze list", but in 5-10 years' time. wow.
This kind of thing is stated in order to persuade clients that the brand and their ADs have their customers' interests at heart.
It doesn't do much else.
It is tempting to say that Rolex are victims of their own success. But they are not victims at all. The buying public are, because the premium market that Rolex has so carefully nurtured has run amok and brought us to nonsensical prices for mass produced watches.
But wait. The buying public are not complaining either, because the Rolex in their safe is still worth more than they paid for it.
And so it goes on, and on.
Until it doesn't.
At the moment, I cannot see how this ends, but like every inflationary system, it is not sustainable for ever. And Rolex prices have looked suspiciously bubble-like for a while now, with used value increases at very unsustainable levels.
It is of no particular interest to me, all the Rolexes that I may have wanted are valued a long way above my watch-value-comfort-threshold. To be honest, they almost always were, so it is no loss to me. But it will be interesting to see how this goes.
Dave
really it's just another story put out by the marketing depts. There will be no shortage of models at the grey dealers and for those of us who suspect some people have a cosy arrangement with customers flipping watches there wont be any change. More interested in reading about Hong Kong and the market slumping due to the protests out there. perhaps Rolex et al can send their output to other markets to ease the 'pressure' that doesnt really exist
https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/ho...n-october-2019
Once you buy something, it is yours and yours only. The same moment money is transferred, the thing is yours.
Will you resell it at the same moment (I would do the exact thing, inside Rolex boutique TBH just to rub their nose) will you give it away, will you burn it or smash it with a hammer it is YOUR problem because THING is your.
Keeping the paperwork or forcing someone to buy extra item with the item you want to buy is deeply illegal.
It's like you buy a car and seller keeps papers from it for a year and will not sell it untill you buy motorcycle from them.
I don't know why you just don't report the AD practices as such to the trade inspection.
Period.
Someone I was trying to sell to a watch a few months back to told that his Rolex AD (big one, major UK city) has sold him a Seadweller twice in the last few years, both since flipped. He needed a few links for a bracelet on a watch I was selling so he phoned said AD but instead of some links, he came away with another incoming Seadweller. They must realise he's flipping them right?
I am blacklisted.
I've never flipped from an AD for a profit in my life so its quite an achievement.
Excellent summary!
God amongst men!
Skillz!
Sounds like a lot of old rubbish to me - there are all sorts of problems in the EU with this approach from data protection laws to problems with anti-competitive/consumer practices.
It would take a bit of nerve but it needs a few hundred of us to make GDPR requests to dealers and see what we get back or to make "right to erasure" claims.
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I was wondering about these sort of scenarios , ADs supplying to big spenders - surely they aren't keeping every watch they buy , then no-end of 2018/2019 watches for sale elsewhere while mere mortals told nothing available for years.
The AD’s just want the money and if their contacts can keep dropping the cash regular then they will keep happily supplying them with the in demand models. The AD’s are perfectly aware of what these regular buyers are doing but if it pays the AD’s bills, they won’t argue.
You can see just how much of this is going on with the amount of brand new 2018-2019 stock that is currently available from the Secondary dealers. Shortage, what shortage!
Yeah I get why the AD does that , but if they just put them in the window I'm sure they could still sell them very quickly! I assume they turn a blind eye because the flippers are buying some less desirable models to maybe sell at a slight loss to make the big bucks on the hard to get. I'll just have to wait for the one I'm after , hopefully not too long!
Someone I follow on Instagram managed to get a new BLNR from a well known AD in London yesterday. I was somewhat surprised as he's not from the UK but he bought a full gold DD at the same time so no surprise anymore...
Knowing you, I can attest to that, what makes it crazier to be blacklisted is you've owned allsorts (from the uber desirable to utter gash)
If its not for you, it doesnt stick around long.
Plus you do get a prize for the sub 24hr Hublot pump & dump :P
I've heard of a few BLNR collections yesterday - in different branches but from the same AD group. Seems like they've got a BLNR shipment in?!
Hahaha, yes ive had some right toss in my time
When getting barred i was read out my list of purchases which indicated skullduggery, and did laugh overtly when they said "MULTIPLE PANERAI SCREWS" as if this was the nail in the coffin.
If your regular customer happens to split the profit with you why put the watch in the window?
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