Reply With QuoteYou realise that’s per month?Originally Posted by David_D
I haven’t found this thread vile at all, like others have mentioned it’s been quite eye opening to see how many are starting to place more value on free time than material things. I openly admit before children came along I was horrific, earning very good money yet it was never enough these days it’s more about free time to spend with them and striking the balance of enough money that we’re all fed, warm and healthy with enough free time to enjoy family.
For our family a brilliant investment (much as I’m loathe to admit) was a caravan (tent before that) we have 1-2 weekends a month away as a family nothing special a field with a play park for the kids to play, we eat what I call caravan food things like beans on toast almost never eat out on these weekends meaning the total cost excluding fuel is around £100 for 5 of us.
If you’d have told me this 10 years ago I’d have laughed and never believed it although I really wish someone had, when I think of the money I squandered and amount of times I worked 90 hours a week predominately away from home.
In those earlier years I don’t think I’d have felt wealthy on £80k a month let alone a year these days as long as the bills are paid and we have time as a family doing things that we enjoy. The people I envy on this thread aren’t those with the big earnings, nice watches and cars etc it’s those with the free time to enjoy the simple things in life that we as a nation/world seem to have forgotten those people have escaped the “matrix” and if this thread means more people realise that secret it’s worth it surely.
You realise that’s per month?
Yup! I pay £293pm and that's a house approx 1,250 sq ft - ie very average.
Check with your council as my house was in the wrong band for 20 years.
Not sure about (sq ft) area but thought band D was average which is ~£180 around here (Essex).
I'll have a look but newer houses tend to be in higher bracket, for some reason. Bit of a poor system, council tax, to be fair.
I should imagine many people would give up all their wealth, ( whatever that really means ), for this.
I have known many people, ( friends and family ), that have been quite well off because they worked incredibly hard for a good part of their lives, but when it came to enjoying all that they worked for, ( mostly during retirement ), they seemed to just go down hill very rapidly, whether that was due to lack of structure to their lives from not having to get up at a certain time or being around certain people at work, or just plain bored from having too much time on their hands, sad really.
It's important to balance lifestyles, earn sufficient to live a life that makes you happy, but don't sacrifice health, or indeed family for the sake of money.
Blimey, that was bit deep for me on a Sunday evening, lol.
Last edited by Weirdfish; 25th November 2019 at 16:28.
At 15 I lived in a bedsit in Southend, I earned £9 a week my rent was £7, i looked forward to a bag of chips on payday, I cycled to work 15 miles. We have both had cancer and survived, the only debt I have is my mortgage, I’m not going to be the richest man in the graveyard, so in answer to the question “ I don’t think about it”
Not sure if this is to do with my work in a GP practice or that I'm well into my 30s now, but these days I get most enjoyment out of the really simple things in life like making and drinking amazing black filter coffee, poaching an egg, reading a book, basically doing what I want to. I'm not wealthy by any stretch but have enough to be able to do most of the simple things I value. I also enjoy my work a lot which is in stark contrast to previous jobs which I have hated. Every day at work I see patients who have something or other wrong with their health and to me, it's now so important to enjoy life here and now rather than work hard to make money to enjoy later. I still enjoy my watches but don't follow watches in the way I used to. I'd be very content, never buying another watch because there are so many other things out there to do other than chasing yet another watch.
All in all, I feel wealthy cos of this new outlook on life which has developed over the last 6 months or so
As a sub specialist physician in the US married to another professional, I’m solidly in the 1%. Having said that, we live below our means, entirely on my income, and maximize all of our tax advantaged retirement accounts and save all the rest. We splurge from time to time, pay cash, and don’t give it much thought, but that’s not the norm. I’m not delusional to believe that I’m not a financially successful person, but I won’t really feel wealthy until I have enough to retire and maintain a high quality of life. We are also targeting 57 as retirement so we have to be smart. I can cut down to 80% whenever I want and 60% for up to 5 years, so I might push to 60. My wife’s job is likely 100% or nothing. The job I accepted 11 years ago was a lifestyle job that pays about 25% less than I could earn, but I also work much less than I would at most other places. In the US one of the limiting factors to retiring early is the high cost of high quality health care and you can’t get the government Medicare program until 65. That’s the one good retirement benefit that the University offers me, I could retire at 56 and keep the Rolls Royce quality university health benefit until its time to transition to Medicare.
Last edited by Dr.Brian; 25th November 2019 at 05:50.
FTFY ;-)
I have a friend earning 150k+ (way more than me) who has had to ask me for a loan to get out of a bind on a few occasions.
Earning £1m and spending £1.1m does not bring about wealth.
Edit: and as we're all sharing, I feel enormously wealthy - I have a wife and two kids that I/we can afford to keep warm and fed in a house that we worked extremely hard for.
We're also currently keeping my wife's family from the brink for a few years (after they made a few terrible financial investments) which has meant luxuries like holidays etc have taken a back seat for now, but it has lowered my FIL's stress levels from heart-attack-waiting-to-happen, to be able to still be here to enjoy his grandkids.
Last edited by demonloop; 25th November 2019 at 09:28.
I don't find this thread vile in any way at all.
If as grown adults we cannot have a discussion like this then we are in a very sad place. If you don't like the discussion, don't post. It really is that simple.
Some people have chosen to lay their financial positions bare in their posts, but they are generally in a positive way, stating that they earn substantially LESS than what would be considered as 'flaunting their wealth' and then go onto state that they are very happy and have wealth in more ways than can be measured in purely financial terms.
I actually find that very uplifting.
Last edited by Maysie; 25th November 2019 at 14:00.
I am Another one who does not think its vile/crass...and to be honest its nice to have a adult based discussion on we all are on this topic, some might draw some inspiration, others might re valuate..
I like many others here saw that episode of Question time. A bit about me 52 and Mrs Ernie 53 got married in 1990, bought our first flat in 1988 {with the endowment fiasco, than another property in 1992} moved to our present house in 1994 { endowment and repayment}. Got 2 grown up daughters 26 and 24 one married one going steady, I have been in civil service since 1991. Mrs E worked in retail part time , this fitted in well with our daughters schooling. Like many of us family came first etc..did with out, no sun kissed holidays.. yes we had loans for car, house DIY improvements etc. Mrs E last company went in administration in july 2017 so she hasn't worked since, but does a magnificent job of keeping our "palace" spic and span. She also loves painting which is a "billy bonus"
The light bulb moment for me was 2006, got the final warning letter from the endowment company. Cashed them all in , put all the cash back into the property about £12.5K and went straight to repayment, best thing I ever did, then for the next 9 years over payed the mortgage{also with the help of overtime} mortgage free since 2015.
Yes as the girls got older we ventured abroad, Spain etc. Yes with the mortgage money that we have saved we have helped our first daughter get married, put the same away for our other daughter. Revamped the house, kitchen, bathroom, double glazing, log burners,etc.
I plan to go early at 55 take my pension early {at that time I will have just over 30 years service in 2022 and take a lower paid job}. Our lifestyle is very manageable and its our choice to live this way. I will purchase my Rolex{waiting list} that I want {this was planned way back in 1991 when I first joined my job} I have another 2 watches. Car wise we have a Skoda which is 4 years old and VW T5 Campervan which is 10 years old.
The wealth question..I and some of you are at that age when we hear of friends , colleagues, work mates being struck down by some awful conditions.
I am "wealthy in health"..creak a bit as well all do, knee/back..All my family are healthy and fit..but as we all know ..you try and edge your bets..nobody knows what is around the corner.
Thanks
Ernie
Good for you.
I did the same a few years ago and have just come out of the other side with everything (almost) back square again.
I am sure the reduction in his stress levels helped my FiL to live several more years he otherwise would not have had. At the time it was an easy decision for us to make (ie to help out) and if I went back in time I would make the same decision again today. It has set us back several years personally/financially, but hey ho, that's the way things go.
Holidays?! What are they...?
Yeah a lot of this puts life into stark context. My father (RIP) had several high paying jobs (his boss was Dick Cheney at one point), nice lifestyle lost to 2 messy divorces, built it back up again with private businesses, sacrificed all spare time into generating a high income to enjoy in retirement and foregoed luxuries in the mean time. Retired at 62 with a hefty amount for his retirement. Was struck down with colon cancer and died 4 months later. Life is a f*cker like that so it made me plan for the future but also not go without and sacrifice in the mean time as life can be an absolute barsteward. So if I want that new Tudor, well as long as I'm not getting into debt for it I'll get it today. Because I may get hit by a bus tomorrow. And actually if I get into a bit of debt for it that's fine because I can pay that back or worst case sell it.
I plough all savings into a pension as I don't trust myself not to rinse out an ISA. But I do have a property, my wife has a property and land in Thailand and my thoughts on retirement are to treat it as a (hopefully) long holiday
Last edited by ryanb741; 25th November 2019 at 17:45.
I agree. It’s finding that balance. I lost mum and dad at an early age and always try and live for today whilst not going bonkers.
Last edited by awright101; 25th November 2019 at 18:29.
Earn £1+1p and owe £1 = wealthy
Earn £1 and owe £1+1p = poor
Sure I heard that somewhere!
All true that, in my experience, and particularly well elucidated. It’s all about ones frame of reference; note the thread title is not how wealthy are you but how wealthy do you ‘feel’ ( “ If I hadn’t seen such riches I could live with being poor....”).
The chap on question-time lacked the ability to explain his frustrations cogently but they were real frustrations. He is factually in the top 5% (income-wise) but he doesn’t ‘feel’ like it. I have no doubt he is chronically unhappy.
Personally, to answer the thread question directly, I certainly don’t feel wealthy. I wouldn’t say I was one of the have-nots but I will never be one of the have-yachts. And, I am just fine and dandy with that. Wife & I retired 8 years ago so the potential to accumulate wealth has, in practice, disappeared and it isn’t something I aspire to any more because there would be no point.
Micawber.
I don't think people realise what money people earn and get by on outside London.
The average person is skint and I read over 50% of people have less than 100 pounds in savings.
I think that’s the reality in the US as well. Many are one modest auto repair or health problem from the tipping point.
One other issue that the population isn’t uniformly distributed so the top 5 percent congregate together and you can quickly lose perspective on how well off you are compared to the average family living paycheck to paycheck.
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I live up north and earn a decent salary, I am fortunate that my mortgage is paid off, I only work Mon - Fri, and I am home every night by 6 so I have lots of time with the kids, but I still do not feel wealthy. I love my work / life balance. We have a fairly high disposable income but it never seems to go very far!
I never wanted to move to London but have old school friends there most have done very well for themselves, drive McClarens, live in multi million pound houses etc. So compared to them I am not wealthy in any stretch, but I cant really complain.
It is impossible to compare to other people as you never really know their circumstances. We have friends (up north) and just have no idea how they live they way they do, they seem to spend almost unlimited amounts of money and do not earn much more than I do. Maybe have credit maxed everywhere but from other peoples views they would be seem as wealthy compared to myself.
I use to work in finance doing loans as my first job, I did a loan for a very senior NHS lady, who was on well over 150K a year (this was 15 + years ago), living in the north. You would assume she was wealthy, but she had 2 mortgages on her house, 5-6 personal loans, maxed credit cards, every month she was down about £500.
The vast majority of people I suspect spend more than they earn.
According to this report 13% of over 55's are relying on a lottery win to fund their retirement! http://13% hoping for a lottery win ...ment/ - Which?
Back in 1999, according to NY Post - Elton John had a $11miilion dollar overdraft https://nypost.com/1999/06/28/eltons...e-in-the-wind/
So it doesn't matter how much people earn, they spend it!
Ah but!,do the people on universal credit have all of the above.......NO,so I know which one they'd rather have and it wouldn't be the £317/month.To say someone on universal credit of £317/month is better off than £100/month after 4.5k/ month isn't really fair,it's a very simplistic view I see that.
I don’t find this thread vile either.
I love hearing about what others earn, as long as they’re happy to reveal all. Like most people I suppose, I earn more than some and less than others.
It's vile, vile I tells ya
I have not read the whole thread but the really rich, in my extremely limited experience, try not to pay tax and so I am even sure they would hit the ONS data. Does the ONS data include dividends?
I wonder if Jordan felt rich, as Katie most likely doesn't anymore.
It's just a matter of time...
Being rich is having a satisfied mind . There’s a song about it somewhere which is quite thought provoking.
The IFS tool that started this thread is interesting and the results are unexpected. In answer to the original question, where it says I am and where I feel I am certainly don’t match. But it doesn’t take account of where you live, or your savings, or age, or the reliability of your current income. Earnings don’t tell you much on their own, even when household incomes and children are factored in. If you live in London and are dealing with a mortgage on an insanely expensive, and yet strangely modestly sized property there, as well as the high cost of city living, you won’t feel the same as someone who’s living in a more sensibly priced area, who’s paid off their property and has a fat pension. Of course you may in time be sitting on substantial property wealth, but unless you move it’s just a number.
As is discussed in this article from The Times, being in certain percentage of income has nothing to do with being in the same percentage of wealth. It also seems likely that wealth has a more exponential distribution, given the amounts accrued by a few well known very wealthy individuals. Consequently, those near the top five percent of the graph (to choose a popular current cut off point) or even two percent, will know that they are living in a completely different world to the top 1%, or again the top 0.1%, and so will feel they’re further down. Interestingly, psychology tells us that people feel satisfied with their wealth and income when they’re doing slightly better than their friends, so it will all depend on who you choose to compare yourself to, and how envious you are of those who have more.
It would be interesting, sobering, and most likely a useful exercise in counting blessings to see a global version of this calculator.
“ Interestingly, psychology tells us that people feel satisfied with their wealth and income when they’re doing slightly better than their friends, so it will all depend on who you choose to compare yourself to, and how envious you are of those who have more.”
Quick, get some poorer friends and feel better :)
It's just a matter of time...
I don't think that just applies to the 'really rich'.
Most self employed people who work through their own Ltd company will also pay themselves a small salary and profit based dividends as it is (or rather used to be) much more tax efficient. The dividend rules have changed recently, so it will be interesting to see if that has an impact on the most recent ONS data when it is released. By the time both corporation tax and income tax have been paid by the directors of their Ltd Co's, there is much less in it nowadays, but that will still be outside the scope of the ONS data I assume in salary terms.
I think that is broadly the point I was making about the ONS statistics, as I think they are skewed to show lower figures at the higher earning end of the chart due to more tax efficient/alternative methods of earning not being recorded. All guesswork though as it is not 100% clear what the ONS records are based on.
This is so true - fundamental human nature...
"Several studies by sociologists have looked at whether the effect of money on happiness results largely from the things money can buy (the so called absolute income effect) or from comparing one's income to the income of others (relative income effect) and concluded the latter is most important, even though economists usually only focus on the size of salaries.
As if to underline this difference, one economist even referred to the "shocking fact" that people in the West have become no happier in the last 50 years, despite being healthier, wealthier and better travelled.
Now hard evidence to show that relative wealth is more important now comes from an experiment described today in Science by Prof Christian Elger and Prof Armin Falk at the University of Bonn.
"
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/sci...u-happier.html
The cultural factors that someone mentioned also make a lot of sense - in more ways than attitudes to visible symbols of wealth. E.g. I grew up in a culture where debt was considered 'bad'. So no matter how rationally I think about it, having a mortgage always takes away from me having a sense of being comfortable...
Precisely. Actually, that tool is complete and utter garbage. Headlined as a comparison of household income it then literally claims to measure “how well off” one is or should feel. There is a tenuous correlation at best.
Personally, I came out in the bottom 2% yet my lifestyle, whilst not overly-extravagant, I doubt would be considered particularly impoverished by that man on the Clapham omnibus.
I'm retired and old - so I really have no idea
House paid for long ago, have three good cars, grandchildren keep us amused, heating always at 22 degrees and plus, the supermarket bill seems to get bigger each month even if we are eating less and less meat, and we are now thinking about upgrading to Economy Plus on our annual holiday to South Africa
I did not realise how good the UK OAP is
how long will it last is the question at my age?
Like many baby boomers, I was raised to save for what I wanted - other than a mortgage I have only borrowed once, when I was 19 to buy a motorbike (for the purpose of this post, I don't count using a credit card and paying off in full each month as borrowing). At various times my wife and I have had to 'draw our horns in' to save for something we needed (eg a new car or study fees). We live a pretty modest lifestyle - eg we don't eat out very often and don't go away for a holiday every year (in fact I haven't been overseas since retiring five years ago). We continue to live within our means and are very content despite not leading extravagant lives.
The first time I felt 'wealthy' (in relative and definitely not absolute terms) was when we had enough savings to be able to buy such things without having to stop spending in order to put enough aside. I remember that feeling a good place to be.
I think most sensible parents raise their children to save for what they want. I don’t think it particularly attributable to a specific generation.
Trouble is that with people borrowing and spending the world would go bust.
You’d think so wouldn’t you, hearing the state of some people whom i work with finances I shudder to think what lessons they teach their children.
It may well be that their parents didn’t teach them the importance of taking care of one’s finances. The only generational influence I can see is the prevalence of easy credit these days, so there’s probably more temptation now than there would have been in the past.
Yes, the availability of cheap credit and ways to buy/hire goods may be it.
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I don’t think it can always be the parents. It’s the generation that they now live in. My son is rubbish with money and he was certainly brought up not to be. That said he’s pretty care free and I wish I was more like that. My step son is very careful with money (read tight as a tight thing). He has a well paid job as does his wife but they just can’t bring themselves to spend to it, which to many on this thread would be a good thing.
Getting a good balance is certainly the right way to feeling wealthy.
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