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Thread: How wealthy do you 'feel'?

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  1. #1
    Master Maysie's Avatar
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    How wealthy do you 'feel'?

    A G&D thread, so no politics please....

    There was a chap on last nights Question Time who claimed (quite strongly) that he was NOT in the top 5% or earners, even though his salary was £80k+. It turns out that officially he IS in the top 5% based on the 2016/2017 ONS data, but it did get me thinking that there must be a lot of people earning in a way that is skewing the figures, as although £80k is a decent salary, I was quite surprised to see that it was within the top 5% of earners (tax payers).
    I suspect that dividend payments, share deals etc remove the highest earners from the ONS data. Or maybe the data is correct and I am just better off than I think(?) - it certainly doesnt feel like that!

    We all sit where we do within the earnings/spending spectrum and I think we all 'spend to our means' to a certain extent, so maybe we are also blinkered to where we sit when compared with others.

    I came across this tool from the IFS which in theory allows you to 'see where you are in the grand scheme of things' and thought it might be interesting for others to have a go too. It is a crude tool, for fun only, but does give some idea.

    https://www.ifs.org.uk/tools_and_res..._do_you_fit_in

    Compare your figures if you want to, but that is not the intention of the post.
    Hope you find it enlightening.

    Personally, I don't believe what it told me at all.

  2. #2
    Master
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    The figures on the ons data must be wrong for whatever reason is all I can conclude

  3. #3
    Grand Master GraniteQuarry's Avatar
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    All I know is I get gang raped by HMRC

  4. #4
    Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by GraniteQuarry View Post
    All I know is I get gang raped by HMRC
    With no lube lol

  5. #5
    Master Maysie's Avatar
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    I am glad it isn't just me then.

    £80k just doesn't sound like the top 5% of earners to me, by quite some margin. Top 25-30% maybe, but top 5% is very hard to believe.

    ONS salary data here is anyone wants to see it.
    https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentand...earningsearn01

  6. #6
    Master
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    I guess we can’t relate to the poor 95% who have to feed 4 kids as a single parent on a lot less than £80K and have to work two jobs to put food on the table.

  7. #7
    Grand Master jwg663's Avatar
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    It's a 'broad-brush' statistic that simply indicates that 95% earn less than £80k & those in the top 5 percentile earn from £80k to gazillions.
    Last edited by jwg663; 22nd November 2019 at 16:32.
    ______

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  8. #8
    Grand Master Andyg's Avatar
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    £80k might sound quite high, (about £4,600/month take home) but surely it's dependant upon out goings.

    For example if someone had a 600k mortgage that's £1k/month.
    Then you have rates - another £300/month
    Home insurance, Utility Bills, food, etc - another £1000/month
    A decent car On PCP - another £1000/month, inc fuel, insurance, tax etc -
    A £6k holiday fund - £500/month
    £100/week on stuff/luxuries/pets, mobile phone, internet, line rental, etc (£400)
    A contribution to a pension - £300.

    And that's 4.5k a month which leaves £100/month for rainy day money.

    Now compare this with someone on universal credit £317/month.

    Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
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  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Andyg View Post
    For example if someone had a 600k mortgage that's £1k/month.
    PM me your mortgage advisor please! Nationwide want £2.6k p/m on a 600k mortgage.

  10. #10
    Craftsman Templogin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andyg View Post
    £80k might sound quite high, (about £4,600/month take home) but surely it's dependant upon out goings.

    For example if someone had a 600k mortgage that's £1k/month.
    Then you have rates - another £300/month
    Home insurance, Utility Bills, food, etc - another £1000/month
    A decent car On PCP - another £1000/month, inc fuel, insurance, tax etc -
    A £6k holiday fund - £500/month
    £100/week on stuff/luxuries/pets, mobile phone, internet, line rental, etc (£400)
    A contribution to a pension - £300.

    And that's 4.5k a month which leaves £100/month for rainy day money.

    Now compare this with someone on universal credit £317/month.
    Ask the person on 80k if they would swap their lifestyle with the person on universal credit.

  11. #11
    Grand Master learningtofly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andyg View Post
    £80k might sound quite high, (about £4,600/month take home) but surely it's dependant upon out goings.

    For example if someone had a 600k mortgage that's £1k/month.
    Then you have rates - another £300/month
    Home insurance, Utility Bills, food, etc - another £1000/month
    A decent car On PCP - another £1000/month, inc fuel, insurance, tax etc -
    A £6k holiday fund - £500/month
    £100/week on stuff/luxuries/pets, mobile phone, internet, line rental, etc (£400)
    A contribution to a pension - £300.

    And that's 4.5k a month which leaves £100/month for rainy day money.

    Now compare this with someone on universal credit £317/month.
    Are you for real? Read what you wrote, and keep reading it until you realise why the comparison with UC is nonsensical. And no, I'm not going to help you.

  12. #12
    Journeyman
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andyg View Post
    £80k might sound quite high, (about £4,600/month take home) but surely it's dependant upon out goings.

    For example if someone had a 600k mortgage that's £1k/month.
    Then you have rates - another £300/month
    Home insurance, Utility Bills, food, etc - another £1000/month
    A decent car On PCP - another £1000/month, inc fuel, insurance, tax etc -
    A £6k holiday fund - £500/month
    £100/week on stuff/luxuries/pets, mobile phone, internet, line rental, etc (£400)
    A contribution to a pension - £300.

    And that's 4.5k a month which leaves £100/month for rainy day money.

    Now compare this with someone on universal credit £317/month.
    -Someone with an 80k income wouldnít be able to borrow £600k.

    -£1000 for utility bills then another £400 for phone, internet, like rental?!

    -£1000 PCP? Whatís decent? I previous car was an Audi A5 which cost around £500 all in (Lease payment, tax, insurance, petrol for 1000 miles/month)

    I hope the above is hypothetical. Someone earning £80k, borrowOMG £600k for a mortgage and decides that £500 a month for a holiday fund an £1000 a month for a car are essentials, leaving £100 for a rainy day fund is managing their money really badly.

    Having said that, Im not the most financially responsible myself. Fortunately a big portion of my income comes from performance related quarterly bonuses so I donít need to budget/save for any luxuries such as holidays or watches. I will probably need to get my act together at some point!

  13. #13
    Grand Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andyg View Post
    £80k might sound quite high, (about £4,600/month take home) but surely it's dependant upon out goings.

    For example if someone had a 600k mortgage that's £1k/month.
    Then you have rates - another £300/month
    Home insurance, Utility Bills, food, etc - another £1000/month
    A decent car On PCP - another £1000/month, inc fuel, insurance, tax etc -
    A £6k holiday fund - £500/month
    £100/week on stuff/luxuries/pets, mobile phone, internet, line rental, etc (£400)
    A contribution to a pension - £300.

    And that's 4.5k a month which leaves £100/month for rainy day money.

    Now compare this with someone on universal credit £317/month.
    Ah but!,do the people on universal credit have all of the above.......NO,so I know which one they'd rather have and it wouldn't be the £317/month.To say someone on universal credit of £317/month is better off than £100/month after 4.5k/ month isn't really fair,it's a very simplistic view I see that.


  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Maysie View Post
    I am glad it isn't just me then.

    £80k just doesn't sound like the top 5% of earners to me, by quite some margin. Top 25-30% maybe, but top 5% is very hard to believe.

    ONS salary data here is anyone wants to see it.
    https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentand...earningsearn01
    It's possibly location based. I think earning £80k p/a would easily within the top 5% in the North. My School year had about 100 kids, we're all 40 this year so all nearing the top of our earnings potential. There's no way 25/30 of the kids in my school year will be earning £80k or above. Five people sounds more realistic.

    You think 25-30% of working people in the UK earn £80k or above?

  15. #15
    Craftsman
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    I have never felt wealthy. My wife sees to that....


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  16. #16
    Master
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    Very much depends where you live.

  17. #17
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    I feel wealthy on quite a bit less than half of that. SWMBO can stay at home or work if she wants, we don't scrimp or worry about where the money will come from.

    That said we don't waste money either, we live in East Yorkshire which means our house was a fraction of down south. Drive a second hand ten year old car and no eye watering holidays.

    Work to live not live to work.

  18. #18
    Master Maysie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KNog View Post
    I feel wealthy on quite a bit less than half of that. SWMBO can stay at home or work if she wants, we don't scrimp or worry about where the money will come from.

    That said we don't waste money either, we live in East Yorkshire which means our house was a fraction of down south. Drive a second hand ten year old car and no eye watering holidays.

    Work to live not live to work.
    My hat is off to you.
    It is certainly true that it is easier to waste more money if you have more of it to waste.

    We are all on a hamster wheel really as we cant take it with us!

  19. #19
    Master
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    I feel wealthy enough. I don’t work either. My pensions are enough thanks.

    Throughout life I have always found my expenses adapt to fit my income. I have had a small income, I have had large income >80k, I am now comfortable.
    Last edited by MartynJC (UK); 22nd November 2019 at 16:54.

  20. #20
    Craftsman HookedSeven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KNog View Post
    I feel wealthy on quite a bit less than half of that. SWMBO can stay at home or work if she wants, we don't scrimp or worry about where the money will come from.

    That said we don't waste money either, we live in East Yorkshire which means our house was a fraction of down south. Drive a second hand ten year old car and no eye watering holidays.

    Work to live not live to work.
    Well said.

  21. #21
    Master subseastu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KNog View Post
    .

    Work to live not live to work.
    At 44 I'm only just coming to realise that this is how it should be.

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  22. #22
    Craftsman RAFF's Avatar
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    How wealthy do you 'feel'?

    Apparently better than 99% of the population. Definitely doesnít feel like it, but then i live in the borough of Kensington and Chelsea.


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  23. #23
    Master reggie747's Avatar
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    How wealthy do you 'feel'?

    Not as wealthy as Skyman !

  24. #24
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    What really surprised me was the fact that according to these stats, more than 50% earn less than £25K.

  25. #25
    Master Maysie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by weedram View Post
    What really surprised me was the fact that according to these stats, more than 50% earn less than £25K.
    I think it is worse than that, as those stats are based on taxpayers, so 50% of people with jobs earn less than £25k.

    There will be a fair few people without jobs who aren't even included within the data I assume.

    As well as the other end of the spectrum where the mega-earners income is so substantial it is worth them avoiding the tax due.

  26. #26
    Craftsman RAFF's Avatar
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    I actually think the top 1% is earning about 150k + (as an individual).


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  27. #27
    Master
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    Point was made by someone that a couple where one partner doesnít work and the other earns £80k pa would end up worse off than a couple each earning £40k pa. I know that ďindependent taxationĒ has applied for decades, but it doesnít feel logically right.

  28. #28
    Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maysie View Post
    There was a chap on last nights Question Time who claimed (quite strongly) that he was NOT in the top 5% or earners, even though his salary was £80k+. It turns out that officially he IS in the top 5% based on the 2016/2017 ONS data, but it did get me thinking that there must be a lot of people earning in a way that is skewing the figures, as although £80k is a decent salary, I was quite surprised to see that it was within the top 5% of earners (tax payers).
    I suspect that, if you looked at the stats regionally, that would be interesting. £80k pa in central London is different from £80k pa up north - certainly outside the big cities.

  29. #29
    Journeyman SydR's Avatar
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    ďyou have a higher income than around 97% of the population - equivalent to about 62.5 million individuals.Ē

    Iíd have guessed a somewhat lower percentage. Certainly I feel better off that the majority of work colleagues but on a par with friends.

  30. #30
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    I live in Rural South West Wales.

    Most people I meet earn about £16K working full time.

    £25K here would be considered an excellent job, no way "average"

    £80K is more rare than hens eggs. I almost never meet anyone on that except the obvious like a GP

  31. #31
    Master amnesia's Avatar
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    I earn a decent wage, but two people on half what I earn would have a lot more take home pay.

    That sucks balls.

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  32. #32
    Grand Master Wallasey Runner's Avatar
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    I took early retirement at 51 from the Civil Service and although my pension gross from them is 34/80ths with no National Insurance or other deductions and a hell of a lot less tax to pay I am taking home close to 50% net of what I was bringing home when I worked.

    The trade off is no more getting up at silly o'clock and commuting into Liverpool City Centre. Financially I am worse off, but quality of life is much improved and I am able to fulfil the role of house husband, so that when wifey gets home from work the house is always warm, tidy, food on the go and all washing turned around etc, so my being home makes her lot a little easier. I'm also walking 25 to 30 miles a week, mainly in the mornings, so that gets me out and helps keep me relatively fit.

    Still about 8 years away from state pension, but when that eventually arrives it will be like a £5k to £6k pay rise.

    Wealthy means different things to different people, but I would rather be where I am today than where I was 10 years ago.

  33. #33
    Master
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    I have to agree with some of the comments on here, just earning 80 plus k per year does not make you wealthy, or indeed healthy.
    I worked for 30 years in the engineering business, 12 plus hours per shift, sometimes didn't know whether I was coming or going.
    Opportunity came up for early retirement at 50, didn't think twice, although I was in a position financially to make that decision, I probably work harder now but it's work I enjoy doing, and it's for myself, if I choose to have a lazy day I will.
    Mortgage free with rental investments, ( also mortgage free ), savings tucked away, nice house in a wonderful part of the country, I think you get the picture.
    It's not all about how much money you earn, more about the quality of life you achieve, not just for yourself, but your family as well.

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wallasey Runner View Post
    I took early retirement at 51 from the Civil Service and although my pension gross from them is 34/80ths with no National Insurance or other deductions and a hell of a lot less tax to pay I am taking home close to 50% net of what I was bringing home when I worked.

    The trade off is no more getting up at silly o'clock and commuting into Liverpool City Centre. Financially I am worse off, but quality of life is much improved and I am able to fulfil the role of house husband, so that when wifey gets home from work the house is always warm, tidy, food on the go and all washing turned around etc, so my being home makes her lot a little easier. I'm also walking 25 to 30 miles a week, mainly in the mornings, so that gets me out and helps keep me relatively fit.

    Still about 8 years away from state pension, but when that eventually arrives it will be like a £5k to £6k pay rise.

    Wealthy means different things to different people, but I would rather be where I am today than where I was 10 years ago.
    This is the template for my future life :-) Iím currently working my notice and next year I shall be a house husband :-o

    My wife believes (based on combined salary) that we are or should be wealthy, but she canít understand why we seemingly donít have any spare money and donít have all of the ďthingsĒ that our peers have. The answer is that for the last 3 years pretty much everything I earn has been ploughed into savings and pensions and weíve effectively been living off her smaller salary. Sheís expecting us to be poor when I stop work but in reality she wonít notice any difference, and when she stops working in 2 or 3 years time the savings will kick in.

    I can fully understand if you have high outgoings on car finance, service charge, mortgage, phone etc (or pension and savings) that you might not feel thereís a lot to spare, and itís often not a simple matter of moving house to a cheaper area. The question was how wealthy do you feel, not how much do you earn.

    I think I felt better off in my 30s even though I had a lower salary, a bigger mortgage and a single income - but back then I was also happy to go backpacking on holiday and wasnít saving nearly as much.

  35. #35
    Master
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    I/ we stopped working at 40, moved to Spain 9 years ago where the cost of most
    things is lower, Own our home here debt free and have no credit card debt. Only have mortgage debt on Btl in London.They are on long fixes and loan to values are at 35 percent or lower.Our investments generate more than the Uk average salary and more by a decent margin then our average months living expenses. We have cash reserves, enough for perhaps 4 to 5 years living expenses if the investment income all for some reason stopped.
    We feel comfortable, time rich when we are also young enough to really enjoy active pastimes, raising our son and best of all free. With luck and continued good health we feel we have it pretty well sorted but you can never be complacent.
    Last edited by Passenger; 22nd November 2019 at 18:50.

  36. #36
    Master ryanb741's Avatar
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    Depends where you live. £80k in London and you need your partner to work as well in order to afford the bills

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    Last edited by ryanb741; 22nd November 2019 at 19:48.

  37. #37
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    80k a year before tax is an inconceivable amount of money for someone like me. Whether that guy is right or wrong, if he doesn't feel he is wealthy, perhaps he should stop to think what that means for those lower down the ladder.

    And it depends where in London you live Ryan. I was able to live there on about £10k a year. Poor people love in London too.
    Last edited by hafle; 22nd November 2019 at 19:59.

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by hafle View Post
    80k a year before tax is an inconceivable amount of money for someone like me. Whether that guy is right or wrong, if he doesn't feel he is wealthy, perhaps he should stop to think what that means for those lower down the ladder.

    And it depends where in London you live Ryan. I was able to live there on about £10k a year. Poor people love in London too.
    I definitely felt like he needed a reality check

  39. #39
    Master ryanb741's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by trident-7 View Post
    I definitely felt like he needed a reality check
    I live here. No check needed. £80k up north is loads I agree. You can buy a really nice house for £500k or even much less. I mean really nice. London that's a flat and you'll pay £1800 a month on the mortgage for that. There is £33k of your gross salary gone already. So please educate me

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  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by ryanb741 View Post
    I live here. No check needed. £80k up north is loads I agree. You can buy a really nice house for £500k or even much less. I mean really nice. London that's a flat and you'll pay £1800 a month on the mortgage for that. There is £33k of your gross salary gone already. So please educate me

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    He's earning more than 95% of the rest of the population & is whinging about it.

    There's a hell of a lot of people who have next to no money...

    I live in the south west. £80k is no hardship even here. London maybe, but it's one of the last places I'd choose to live in this country.
    Last edited by trident-7; 22nd November 2019 at 20:26.

  41. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by ryanb741 View Post
    I live here. No check needed. £80k up north is loads I agree. You can buy a really nice house for £500k or even much less. I mean really nice. London that's a flat and you'll pay £1800 a month on the mortgage for that. There is £33k of your gross salary gone already. So please educate me

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    You donít need to live in central London though. I know people who work in the Capital and live south of the river. A quick look on rightmove shows a 3 bed semi with large garden in at £450k, thatís about £100k more than a similar sized house in the northern village I live in. So you donít need £80k or more to live comfortably and work in London.

  42. #42
    Master Onelasttime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hafle View Post
    80k a year before tax is an inconceivable amount of money for someone like me. Whether that guy is right or wrong, if he doesn't feel he is wealthy, perhaps he should stop to think what that means for those lower down the ladder.

    And it depends where in London you live Ryan. I was able to live there on about £10k a year. Poor people love in London too.
    But didnít you also inherit a substantial sum of money and buy a collection of Omega and Rolex watches during this time of self-imposed austerity?

    You never actually had to live on £10k a year - you chose to. Itís a bit different.

  43. #43
    Master endo's Avatar
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    According to that survey I should be lording it up on my megayacht in Monaco.


    Tax, living in the center of a large city, and wasting any free cash I have on things that ticks, explains why I would consider myself wealthy.
    Can't complain though, I've gotten some nice watches out of it lol

  44. #44
    Craftsman RAFF's Avatar
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    How wealthy do you 'feel'?

    Didnít watch it so canít comment on the guy. However, earning 80k in London isnít amazing. Itís a good wage and better than most but still doesnít make you Ďwealthyí imo, to the point you donít have to worry about money. Plus the more you earn the nicer your home, car, watch etc. So you can end up with same disposable income as someone on half that.


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    Last edited by RAFF; 22nd November 2019 at 20:49.

  45. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by RAFF View Post
    Didn’t watch it so can’t comment on the guy. However, earning 80k in London isn’t amazing. It’s a good wage and better than most but still doesn’t make you ‘wealthy’ imo, to the point you don’t have to worry about money. Plus the more you earn the nicer your home, car, watch etc. So you can end up with same disposable income as someone on half that.
    This

    Wealth imo isn't about how much you earn it's about your disposable income, that disposable income gives you the lifestyle not to give a rats
    Last edited by Franky Four Fingers; 22nd November 2019 at 21:32.

  46. #46
    Master Skyman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Franky Four Fingers View Post
    This

    Wealth imo isn't about how much you earn it's about your disposable income, that disposable income gives you the lifestyle not to give a rats
    Exactly.

  47. #47
    Master
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    Apr 2014
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    Quote Originally Posted by murkeywaters View Post
    I agree on both, that bloke was a k-nob and quite aggressive.

    Back to the question - We easily get by on £1500 a month, me, missus, son and dog, 4 bed house in a nice part of the country and 2 cars + a classic in the garage, we have an offset mortgage so any savings bring the interest down, this was setup just after 2008 and that current mortgage is not available anymore, we're classed as a bad investment by the lender!

    I only work/earn money at things I like to do, so while I wouldnt say I was cash rich I'm certainly life rich which I have grown to appreciate more than cash.

    You can always earn money but you can never earn more time.
    Quote Originally Posted by Franky Four Fingers View Post
    This

    Wealth imo isn't about how much you earn it's about your disposable income, that disposable income gives you the lifestyle not to give a rats
    The sustainability and security of that income is another factor, in terms of real wealth as Warren Buffet said when the tide goes out you discover who has been skinny dipping.
    Never a pretty sight.

  48. #48
    Apprentice
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    Nov 2019
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    Bristol
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    I earn less than the UK national average. I'm not in poverty, I have a professional job, and we can afford holidays, and a car, and a gym membership, and all those sorts of things.

    But I'm definitely not middle class, we aren't on the housing ladder, and times are often tight.

  49. #49
    Master yumma's Avatar
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    Apr 2014
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    Chelmsford, UK
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    So joint income of around top 10%, which is ok, but feels distinctly average, but like anything itís not gonna be a steady curve of progression, just like an elite marathon runner the difference between a top 20% and top 2% is vast. Iíve had some top 5% race finishes but itís still a country mile away from the winner. But Iím happy in my earnings as that represents my qualifications, application, ambition and skill; itís alright as far as Iím concerned but know I could be better. I balance this with home life, personal time, recreation and my mental health; all of which I value more than a pay cheque. But I tip my hat to all who earn a good wage as it normally takes a big commitment and is well deserved.

  50. #50
    Master raptor's Avatar
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    Sunstroke capital,Cyprus
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    Its like sales figures in a company
    Next year will be old news
    Unless you loose your health or loved ones you dont get the bigger picture. And to most people is temporarily
    Unless you find happiness to what you have you never will
    I feel very wealthy and i come from a very weird island when it comes to what you must show to ďshowĒ wealthy

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