Everyone, I’m struggling with identifying two watches, I think they are WW1 vintage.
Any information or suggestions will be very welcome
In this period, wristlets often don’t work like this. You had case makers, movement makers, movement finishers dial makers and so on. Often a company would have a dial made for them or just bolt together different parts. As such you are going to get closer by looking at the movement and the inside back of the case.
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Originally Posted by M4tt
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Thanks, nothing to see on the movements or case back. I think.
Regards
Dave
Probably under the dial, going to have to remove the hands, then the dial screws.
Not easy these older movements
They look in good condition for there age
Ok, so the Ehrhardt is Military as it has a pheon - the 'crowsfoot' device. Ehrhardt was an outlier in English manufacture as he was an early adopter of American style machine based construction. I don't recognise the movement, and so I assume that it was one of his. The other looks, off the top of my head, like a fontainemelon movement. The inside of the caseback, on both, might be helpful, as would having a careful peek under the balance. Don't touch anything inside, you can generally get things to move by a gentle shake rather than directly touching it.
Oh, and the hands on the wristlet are most likely filled with a radium lume. Keep it in a well ventilated area away from people - the radium is quite radioactive, but the real risk is radon gas. How risky has been a matter of debate for ages, so be sensible but don't worry too much.
Edit - a quick search shows the Ehrhardt was quite a common pre first world war military issue and so there will be plenty more information out there somewhere as there always is if it's military. However it looks like it's a rarity for the period - a watch made by the people with the name on the dial - I'm guessing you might see a turn of the century or so Birmingham hallmark and no import mark which might suggest it was totally in house. That might be confirmed by a WE stamp, but it's just as likely to be made by another Birmingham maker who specialised in cases - Dennison - look for an ALD mark.
Last edited by M4tt; 20th August 2022 at 23:39.
Wow thanks for the great information, I have something to start with. Much appreciated
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An example of the Ehrhardt looks to pictured in the middle of page 409 of British Military Timepieces by Konrad Knirim, WW1 supplied by H. White & Co Ltd, nickel case by Dennison Watch Co.
I was surprised I hadn't got such an interesting sounding book at some point or another. I've just looked for it and the cheapest is £125! I can imagine that I've done that before at some point and forgotten. Is it £100 quids worth of book? Say in the same way that the monster Rolex one is? That it even has a page 409 is a good sign.
MWR recommended reading.
Large format, nearly 800 pages, colour photograph rich.
Pay for postage, you could always borrow it and take a gander.
My reading of it is that the H White watch is a different watch altogether. There are 2 different models of the W Ehrhardt and the OP has the 2nd one. I wonder of there is a very faint sparrow's foot on the back of the case - mostly rubbed off.
In the Sotadic Zone, apparently.
In the Sotadic Zone, apparently.
To answer Matt's question - I think it's worth it for both volumes but I had the benefit of a bit of extensive Indian overtime to pay for my copies.
In the Sotadic Zone, apparently.
That’s very kind, but there is nothing I hate more than remembering where something is and not being able to access it. My wife complains that I’m using books as a form of insulation. So now I know it exists, I’ll have to get it. Eventually.
Both volumes? Lordy!
You are right! The third on the page is the H. White. I didn't have my reading glasses on and I normally only ever look at the pictures.
Now I have my specs on, it clearly states:
Taschenuhren aus dem Ersten Weltkrieg: zwei W. Ehrhardt. London, mit verschiedenen Werken weisses Zifferblatt, Markierungen D 16974 'Brand Arrow' und D 11655. - H. White & Co Ltd. London, Markierung 'Broad Arrow' und 2419E auf Zifferblatt und Boden, Nickel Gehäuse von Dennison Watch Co.
It's heavy, post there and back = cost of book? Buy it! You know you want it.
I think the other volume is German military timepieces.
If there's one thing I've learned from this hobby, it is not to rush. Like all of Eddie's watches, it will come around at the right price eventually. But I'm very grateful to know what I'm looking for. Cheers.
Seen author's website, http://www.knirim.de/ueberse.htm?
Hi there is a crows foot I will post a photo later
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That looks good - the D and the arrow match the example in Knirim.
Edit: you mentioned before that there were no markings on the caseback. Are you sure there aren't hallmarks in the other one? They will be the most reliable way of dating it (approximately).
In the Sotadic Zone, apparently.
Hi, the only mark I see is hand written WII 28?
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The wrist watch movement, a relative of the A. Schild 137?
https://www.vintagewatchstraps.com/m....php#schild137
https://youtu.be/B-SyiX08iRI
Looks like that to me. So much for the top of my head! Good catch.
Wow, thank you so much for the help, The two watches are for a local museum and I wanted to improve on “the description: two watches from the Great War”!
They will be part of a future exhibit illustrating how wars have advanced technology we felt that the development from pocket to wrist was both a technical advancement and an aesthetic one. Please feel free to educate me as I’m way out of my comfort zone as the museum includes WW1 but not specifically watches.
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Don’t rely on me, I’m no expert.
Where’s the museum? I’ve become quite interested in WW1 as I’ve inherited a few family bits and bobs.
During the 2014-18 exhibition period, I loaned a death scroll and portrait of one of my grandparent’s bothers to a local musuem. He was the youngest boy from the area to have been killed during WW1.
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I'm not sure that WWI did much for movement development at all. However, it certainly popularised waterproof and dustproof cases both in wristlets and pocket watches. Pocket watches remained in military use during WWII, while more cumbersome, until the general adoption of shock protection for the balance, wristwatches really were a bit too vulnerable on the wrist. At the start of WWII shock protection was pretty hit or miss, especially in allied watches, but by the end of the war it was pretty ubiquitous. However, I'm struggling to think of a wrist watch tech that came about as a result of either conflict. In both cases, everything was already in place and was merely popularised by the need for water and dust resistance in the first world war or far greater stability and anti-magnetism in the second.
It's an interesting area for discussion that we really haven't done so much here.
Good observation, Indeed from my limited research wrist watches had been in use some time, the first war seems to have driven durability and also their popularity. I’m also interested in the introduction of standardised machined parts for manufacturing of watches at this time.
Please feel free to add your thoughts everyone it’s just what I need.
All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds, wake in the day to find that it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act on their dreams with open eyes, to make them possible.
Radium luminescent dials in WW1? (I don’t know, just speculating).
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