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Thread: The Watchfinder Rolex Sale

  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by petay993 View Post
    The statement is what you read, no more, no less.

    Whilst I accept that your stock is generally well priced, I wonder, why do you feel the need to announce further price rises when the market is clearly turning, perhaps you are auditioning for the role of King Canute
    This forum is used to me writing plainly. When there was a glut of DeepSeas and Explorer IIs some years ago, I wrote about how many I was sitting on. Here my intention is relevant as it supports my position that any retreat from the highest prices by the greediest sellers is no indication of demand or price trends in the more mainstream market.

    Too many posts here are judging the market by looking at Watchfinder, Chrono24 etc. This very choice of indicators may serve as an explanation of why the market has been able to inflate as it has.

  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haywood_Milton View Post
    This forum is used to me writing plainly. When there was a glut of DeepSeas and Explorer IIs some years ago, I wrote about how many I was sitting on. Here my intention is relevant as it supports my position that any retreat from the highest prices by the greediest sellers is no indication of demand or price trends in the more mainstream market.

    Too many posts here are judging the market by looking at Watchfinder, Chrono24 etc. This very choice of indicators may serve as an explanation of why the market has been able to inflate as it has.
    Watchfinder prices (and to an extent, Chrono 24) are a false paradigm. The latter uses the former as a benchmark, yet neither are correctly indicative.

    To use the holder(s) of what appears to be a large inventory of desirable (sic) watches as a pricing model is not hugely credible - the odd impatient purchase is no suggestion of stability or sustainability.
    When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........

  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haywood_Milton View Post
    This forum is used to me writing plainly. When there was a glut of DeepSeas and Explorer IIs some years ago, I wrote about how many I was sitting on. Here my intention is relevant as it supports my position that any retreat from the highest prices by the greediest sellers is no indication of demand or price trends in the more mainstream market.

    Too many posts here are judging the market by looking at Watchfinder, Chrono24 etc. This very choice of indicators may serve as an explanation of why the market has been able to inflate as it has.
    Rather than answering my question, which you quote, your response is couched in terms of self justification which I find somewhat surprising.

    If you genuinely feel, with your significant experience of the Rolex secondary market, that further price rises are justified, let us take a step back and let the market judge.

  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by petay993 View Post
    Rather than answering my question, which you quote, your response is couched in terms of self justification which I find somewhat surprising.

    If you genuinely feel, with your significant experience of the Rolex secondary market, that further price rises are justified, let us take a step back and let the market judge.
    I answered your question. I also justified my position because I felt it was challenged and that, as a relatively new poster, you might appreciate some context. When I've seen weakness in a sector of the Rolex market, I've written about it plainly and will again....but this isn't that time.

  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haywood_Milton View Post
    I answered your question. I also justified my position because I felt it was challenged and that, as a relatively new poster, you might appreciate some context. When I've seen weakness in a sector of the Rolex market, I've written about it plainly and will again....but this isn't that time.
    Your position was challenged. I have read your responses carefully thank you, this is the benefit I hoped to derive from participation as a "relatively new poster"

  6. #106
    Quote Originally Posted by petay993 View Post
    Your position was challenged. I have read your responses carefully thank you, this is the benefit I hoped to derive from participation as a "relatively new poster"
    I am not sure what your angle is here or what you are trying to insinuate.
    HM is a plain talker and knows what he is talking about.

  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by RAJEN View Post
    I am not sure what your angle is here or what you are trying to insinuate.
    HM is a plain talker and knows what he is talking about.
    It was straight talking exchange with differing opinions, why are you jumping in?

  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by petay993 View Post
    The statement is what you read, no more, no less.

    Whilst I accept that your stock is generally well priced, I wonder, why do you feel the need to announce further price rises when the market is clearly turning, perhaps you are auditioning for the role of King Canute
    Are you sure the market is clearly turning? One sale hardly represents the 'market'. I think it's wishful thinking tbh.
    Courage is being scared to death but saddling up anyway.

  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by petay993 View Post
    Rather than answering my question, which you quote, your response is couched in terms of self justification which I find somewhat surprising.

    If you genuinely feel, with your significant experience of the Rolex secondary market, that further price rises are justified, let us take a step back and let the market judge.

    Also remember that Haywood doesnt sell outside the UK, whereas WF and C24 are international actors, it will differ a lot in various countries due to currencies etc... there is a definite slowdown outside of the UK happening, but I couldnt say for South America or New Zealand.... Currently Rolex are the cheapest on the planet in the UK, so there's a cushion there too for dealers...

  10. #110
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    This WF “sale” seems to have caused a few to panic about the reduction in price and some unwisely in my opinion will be desperate to sell to lock in any profit.

    This works in the favour of the more astute who take it as an opportunity to buy from those in a hurry to sell , box them up and sit tight.

    There’ll be plenty of wise watch retailers buying good stock now , the only shareholders they answer to are themselves.

  11. #111
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    Well there are now no HULK LV left on sale. So either they have sold or been withdrawn. 5 showing in stock as of this morning, 2011-2019 - priced between 14k and 16k.
    Still a couple of Oyster BLNR at 12k and one BLRO steel on 'sale'.

    I agree with much of the above, this sale acts as a bit of a shake up and WF do have some power to exert some influence on UK pricing, but it will normalise itself again next year come spring, i.e. back to the level it was. Remember we are in Black Friday territory now, all companies especially large conglamarates are interested in making hay.

  12. #112
    Quote Originally Posted by Boss13 View Post
    Well there are now no HULK LV left on sale. So either they have sold or been withdrawn. 5 showing in stock as of this morning, 2011-2019 - priced between 14k and 16k.
    Still a couple of Oyster BLNR at 12k and one BLRO steel on 'sale'.

    I agree with much of the above, this sale acts as a bit of a shake up and WF do have some power to exert some influence on UK pricing, but it will normalise itself again next year come spring, i.e. back to the level it was. Remember we are in Black Friday territory now, all companies especially large conglamarates are interested in making hay.
    Agreed

  13. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hooshabak View Post
    What business isn’t in the business of making a profit 類
    Let me try to elaborate.....

    Imagine WF sales have slowed a bit that will mean they aren’t hitting monthly objective and in turn profit targets what to do about it ? A quick meeting ....how do we get it moving ?....better to reduce some potentially optimistic prices get phones ringing and accept £2000 margin rather than hang out for £3000 but sell twice what they have been recently and clear some dust accumulators, i have also no doubt that allowing stock to stagnate limits what they can buy in, so a sale sorts it and fresh stock can be bought albeit at potentially lower prices as they can demonstrate to seller ‘new price’.....they do seems to enjoy very healthy margins and have been pushing the envelope so to speak is it a market correction or a WF correction? I would suggest the latter..

    Same car industry if we have 100 cars on forecourt and the taps inexplicably turn off you need to find a way to get it going again, reductions do not necessarily mean the cars are worth less we are just trying to spark a reaction and shift some tin to make a profit to pay everyone and rotate stock.....

  14. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by TKH View Post
    Let me try to elaborate.....

    Imagine WF sales have slowed a bit that will mean they aren’t hitting monthly objective and in turn profit targets what to do about it ? A quick meeting ....how do we get it moving ?....better to reduce some potentially optimistic prices get phones ringing and accept £2000 margin rather than hang out for £3000 but sell twice what they have been recently and clear some dust accumulators, i have also no doubt that allowing stock to stagnate limits what they can buy in, so a sale sorts it and fresh stock can be bought albeit at potentially lower prices as they can demonstrate to seller ‘new price’.....they do seems to enjoy very healthy margins and have been pushing the envelope so to speak is it a market correction or a WF correction? I would suggest the latter..

    Same car industry if we have 100 cars on forecourt and the taps inexplicably turn off you need to find a way to get it going again, reductions do not necessarily mean the cars are worth less we are just trying to spark a reaction and shift some tin to make a profit to pay everyone and rotate stock.....
    Yup.
    Business 101......cashflow is king.
    Waiting for profit doesn't pay bills. The biggest reason for business failure is cashflow.

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  15. #115
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    This seems like a correction to prices you see on chrono. Perhaps more people are trading direct rather then using resellers

  16. #116
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    Hong Kong is a big market for Rolex and the troubles must be hard for retailers to cope with...can you imagine the disruption?

    If you look at Chrono24 the cheapest watches 0-3 years old Rolex available are from Hong Kong based retailers as they reduce to move stuff on this in turn dilutes the Chrono24 price graph as they use average selling and sold prices to benchmark.

    Ceramic Daytonas from 17k
    BLNR 11k
    Hulk LV 11k

    When / If the troubles ever end no doubt confident will return and along with it higher prices....

  17. #117
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    Sub No Date in Bangkok Suvarnabhumi airport this am. Went on display. Took 3 hours to sell. Read into that what you will.

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  18. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by ryanb741 View Post
    Sub No Date in Bangkok Suvarnabhumi airport this am. Went on display. Took 3 hours to sell. Read into that what you will.

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    3 hours ?

    The market has collapsed man.

  19. #119

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    Quote Originally Posted by ryanb741 View Post
    Sub No Date in Bangkok Suvarnabhumi airport this am. Went on display. Took 3 hours to sell. Read into that what you will.

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    You succumbed to temptation again ???

  20. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buster73 View Post



    3 hours ?

    The market has collapsed man.
    Entry level steel rolex with tax free discount... Surprise is it was even put in the window tbh...

  21. #121
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    Watchfinder have had Rolex sales before, it’s fairly regular, I bought a 16570 Explorer II in one a few years back. As HM mentioned, there were a lot of them around at the time, possibly due to the release of the new model, though in spite of this prices now are significantly higher than they were then. I’m only interested in this storm in a teacup if it affects the wider market, but it appears to be a story about micro-bubbles for particular ‘hot’ Rolex models that WF have been selling for over the going rate, due to being such a well known retailer. It would be surprising if demand could keep ahead of supply indefinitely on current production models, as the supply is gradually increasing. It would also be surprising if recently discontinued models remain the flavour of the month indefinitely, there will always be a new model to lust after sooner or later. A few will turn out to be certified classics, but I wonder if some of the current case shapes are the best candidates. In short, some spikes in prices of these new or recent watches just looks like noise to me, not the end of the world.

    The Nautilus is a slightly different case (no pun intended!), and perhaps something like the AP Royal Oak 15202ST. Prices seem utterly insane currently but as far as I know production numbers and the numbers of them in circulation are much lower, as they were never originally aimed at the size of market that’s interested in them now. These brands are careful to keep supply well behind demand on their most desirable models. However even there it’s hard to imagine £37k being sustainable for the RO and - did I just see £59k?! - for the Nautilus as the price becomes fatally disconnected from the reality of the product. You start to wonder what else you could do with the money, even if the laws of supply and demand say it makes sense on a particular day - perhaps Sir would prefer a new Porsche. Does it mean much if incredibly speculative prices on certain models turn out to be unsustainable though? Not really. It’s not like a property crash, it’s more like a crash in prices in one street in Kensington.

  22. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldoakknives View Post
    Are you sure the market is clearly turning? One sale hardly represents the 'market'. I think it's wishful thinking tbh.
    It will be interesting to see how things play out in to the New Year and whether the Watchfinder sale creates any sort of ripple effect. You probably have a fair point, TRF and WUS have threads springing up all over the place proclaiming the tide has turned and such like without too much corroborating evidence so far.

    I have no great desire to see prices fall from a personal standpoint as I have an established relationship with my local AD and have been able to pick up a couple of Professional pieces this year at RRP. I continue to live in hope of a BLRO next year.

  23. #123
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    The market is not turning prices still a lot higher than Rrp just some of the big hitters well over priced in first place have dropped there prices slightly.

    Watchfinder does not represent the true Market prices of Rolex watches but 9 / 10 folk when selling use as guide to achieve higher figure.

    But that said a lot of the prices have crept down a little on eBay in last few months brand new unworn 2019 blnr box and papers been sat there for weeks at £12500 and is still there.

    I sold my discontinued batman in July and was not one batman under 12k on eBay there is a fair few now.

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  24. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by petay993 View Post
    It was straight talking exchange with differing opinions, why are you jumping in?
    To help us value the differing opinions what is your experience of the secondary market in Rolex?

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  26. #126
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    People who pay 15k or 10k for a batman are retarded either way.

  27. #127
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    I do find this tread rather amusing...i bought both my Rolex watches to wear...i couldn't give a toss if they go up or down in value.

  28. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by bokbok View Post
    The market is not turning prices still a lot higher than Rrp just some of the big hitters well over priced in first place have dropped there prices slightly.

    Watchfinder does not represent the true Market prices of Rolex watches but 9 / 10 folk when selling use as guide to achieve higher figure.

    But that said a lot of the prices have crept down a little on eBay in last few months brand new unworn 2019 blnr box and papers been sat there for weeks at £12500 and is still there.

    I sold my discontinued batman in July and was not one batman under 12k on eBay there is a fair few now.

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    Isn't everything you've written exactly the indicators of a turning market? We can all pretend this isn't happening but it is. I've been tracking prices closely for a fair while now and prices are 100% softening, its a fact. On top of this, there are many reports all over the place of grey's dropping their buy in prices, or refusing to take previously hot pieces at all, watches sitting unsold for weeks/months where they would previously have flown out the door, ss models finally starting to appear in AD windows, 'rolex sale', global economic slowdown, HK, and on and on.

  29. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by Montello View Post
    To help us value the differing opinions what is your experience of the secondary market in Rolex?
    Fair play to him, I have just received a very nice dm from petay993 (not that he needed to send one) and I believe his posts represent his genuine and well-intended viewpoint, not a case of the anti-Rolex trolling these threads can attract.

  30. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivan Drago View Post
    People who pay 15k or 10k for a batman are retarded either way.
    I agree but what about people paying close to this for 5 digit GMTs? The difference between what 5 digit GMTs go for and their original RRP is way more than the same for a £10k Batman.

  31. #131
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    The end is nigh...

    Ps. I have a few WTB out there for those that want to sell before the meltdown

  32. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by ~dadam02~ View Post
    Isn't everything you've written exactly the indicators of a turning market? We can all pretend this isn't happening but it is. I've been tracking prices closely for a fair while now and prices are 100% softening, its a fact. On top of this, there are many reports all over the place of grey's dropping their buy in prices, or refusing to take previously hot pieces at all, watches sitting unsold for weeks/months where they would previously have flown out the door, ss models finally starting to appear in AD windows, 'rolex sale', global economic slowdown, HK, and on and on.
    They are softing on premium models like the videos states plenty of factors as you pointed out.
    But a lot of prices I seen are not dealers on eBay.
    Not sure the market is on its knees as one AD had a explorer 1 in window means waiting list is coming down on sports models.

    The point Haywood was making most greys where over over priced to start with






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  33. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by bokbok View Post
    They are softing on premium models like the videos states plenty of factors as you pointed out.
    But a lot of prices I seen are not dealers on eBay.
    Not sure the market is on its knees as one AD had a explorer 1 in window means waiting list is coming down on sports models.




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    I don't think anyone is saying the market is on its knees but its definitely turning.

  34. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by ~dadam02~ View Post
    I don't think anyone is saying the market is on its knees but its definitely turning.
    It is for premium models which I never really bought in too but they are still double Rrp lol

    Be interesting to see what watchfinder offer for premium models

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    Last edited by bokbok; 21st November 2019 at 11:47.

  35. #135
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    This reminds me of supermarket wine, increase the price for a while and then offer it ‘on sale’, and clear out the lot for more than it usually costs elsewhere, repeat. Nonetheless, surely the only truly sustainable price on a current model is the RRP, unless Rolex decide to suddenly stop making an incredibly popular model and don’t replace it with a better one. Five digit models and earlier are a different case entirely (see what I did there?) as they’re no longer produced, may have unique patina, and for some will fit better than current models. Their degree of trendiness is subject to change though.

  36. #136
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    Has anyone tried obtaining a quote for their Rolex recently? Wonder how much lower they’re quoting given these discounts.

  37. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by cheesycake7 View Post
    Has anyone tried obtaining a quote for their Rolex recently? Wonder how much lower they’re quoting given these discounts.
    They probably have and not happy to take that figure

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  38. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by cheesycake7 View Post
    Has anyone tried obtaining a quote for their Rolex recently? Wonder how much lower they’re quoting given these discounts.
    Around £9k for a Batgirl from a high of £12k+ some months back from all accounts.

  39. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by mjc1216 View Post
    I do find this tread rather amusing...i bought both my Rolex watches to wear...i couldn't give a toss if they go up or down in value.
    Exactly. Although I may sing a different tune in 10 years or so when first born starts at college...


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  40. #140
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    I'll have cheap new pepsi if any has one kicking they want to get rid of used is fine

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    Last edited by bokbok; 21st November 2019 at 12:24.

  41. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by mjc1216 View Post
    I do find this tread rather amusing...i bought both my Rolex watches to wear...i couldn't give a toss if they go up or down in value.
    You maverick you! :)

  42. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by ColDaspin View Post
    You succumbed to temptation again ???
    Ha! Sadly not as I am in London presently but we know a staff member who works in that boutique who shared that info.

    Most of the local demand seems to be for the jade dial YG Daytona - that has a crazy wait list

  43. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by ryanb741 View Post
    You maverick you! :)
    I agree true maverick

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  44. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by Itsguy View Post
    Five digit models and earlier are a different case entirely as they’re no longer produced, may have unique patina, and for some will fit better than current models. Their degree of trendiness is subject to change though.
    Batman is now discontinued and is unique in that it was the first time that Rolex offered a bi-colour bezel in the ceramic SS GMT line (as Tim Mosso continues to point out).

  45. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris_in_the_UK View Post
    Watchfinder prices (and to an extent, Chrono 24) are a false paradigm. The latter uses the former as a benchmark, yet neither are correctly indicative.
    But surely part of the 'cause' to the 'effect'?

  46. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Kenney View Post
    But surely part of the 'cause' to the 'effect'?
    Quite.
    When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........

  47. #147
    Quote Originally Posted by Flasher View Post
    To be straight here, I do not think a couple of years ago anyone was shouting out the Nautilus or Aquanaut as Modern classics but the market changed and suddenly these two inauspicious model from Patek took the spotlight. Whether they remain in the spotlight or continue with the surprising modern classic moniker, we will see.
    Well, you are plain wrong about the Nautilus. It's a modern classic Genta design, and has been regarded as such for many years.

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  48. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by beechcustom View Post
    I agree but what about people paying close to this for 5 digit GMTs? The difference between what 5 digit GMTs go for and their original RRP is way more than the same for a £10k Batman.
    4 digit references will go for more again but it’s ludicrous to compare their original RRP as you would need to factor it up for inflation
    The 4 and 5 digit stuff also don’t have monstrous cases to ruin the aesthetics which helps with resale.


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  49. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hood View Post
    4 digit references will go for more again but it’s ludicrous to compare their original RRP as you would need to factor it up for inflation
    The 4 and 5 digit stuff also don’t have monstrous cases to ruin the aesthetics which helps with resale.


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    Even factoring it in for inflation (I should have included this in my post) I think the rrp vs market rate for 5 digit GMTs is still way above that of the 116710BLNR.

  50. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by cheesycake7 View Post
    Has anyone tried obtaining a quote for their Rolex recently? Wonder how much lower they’re quoting given these discounts.
    I got an uninvited, casual "quote" for a Hulk less than a week ago. I had it on my wrist when I was there and the guy after noticing it, told me they would pay £13k for it. He quickly revised it down to £12.5k after seeing the shock on my face. Didn't even ask about the age of the watch.

    I was very sceptical of the figure he stated, even though I didn't know about the upcoming sale and don't have any views (either side) on the secondary market.

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