The Watchfinder Rolex Sale

[jackin_jill]

[QUOTE/]In other news, over on Furniture Forum members are discussing a massive depression in that market as DFS announces a Winter Sale.[/QUOTE]

The difference is that Rolex is a premium luxury brand (a cash cow at that) and DFS are a retailer of generally unknown brands.

As someone stated above, the words "Rolex" and "Sale" have never been seen together for at least 3 years. The fact that the biggest used reseller in the UK is selling them off reduced should be enough to show that they are struggling to shift them.

[Haywood_Milton]

The difference is that Rolex is a premium luxury brand (a cash cow at that) and DFS are a retailer of generally unknown brands.

As someone stated above, the words "Rolex" and "Sale" have never been seen together for at least 3 years. The fact that the biggest used reseller in the UK is selling them off reduced should be enough to show that they are struggling to shift them.

Er......they are yo-yo pricing recidivists, repeatedly swinging the pendulum as high as possible, then dropping it when they have gone too far, before quickly trying to swing it back up again.

The comparison with DFS is valid and they HAVE held Rolex sales consistently for as long as they have been in business. I know, because I used to write them six figure cheques to take a dollop of excess (mainstream) stock off their hands before they started the public sales.

You say that you "monitor multiple greys on social media." That may not give you a complete, real world picture. It is my rather extensive experience that anything properly priced at the moment is flying off the shelves almost as soon as offered.

[893bet]

The white dial Daytona has a retail price of £9550 its being sold at 24k reduced from 26k and people think the market is collapsing?

No. But it’s the first time WF have reduced prices on these “in demand” pieces.

Do people expect it to collapse over night and half in price? No.

But there is downward pressure for a change.

[Haywood_Milton]

There is downward pressure on only the most extreme market-makers.

Even in recent weeks, putting out watches for higher prices than I ever have before, I see them sell almost instantly and feel momentum pushing the next examples higher. That will be less than WF and others, but their madness is not the absolute measure of the market some seem to think.

[ozzyb123]

Still loads of Batmans (Batmen?) for sale. Struggling to sell at 12k

Many trust Watchfinder more than chrono24 and other greys, so I would suspect they can charge a premium above market rate

So maybe something closer to 11k is where the market achieves clearing on Watchfinder

Might mean 10-10.5 is where everyone else needs to be...

[Flasher]

Still loads of Batmans (Batmen?) for sale. Struggling to sell at 12k

Many trust Watchfinder more than chrono24 and other greys, so I would suspect they can charge a premium above market rate

So maybe something closer to 11k is where the market achieves clearing on Watchfinder

Might mean 10-10.5 is where everyone else needs to be...

The BLNR, Daytona’s and Pepsi are not flying out of any of the secondary dealers windows from what I can see with the current stock levels in tandem with the ludicrous pricing and that is why the surge in interest in the Explorers and datejusts over the past 12months.

There is undoubtedly a sweet spot for your average Rolex buyer and maybe an inflated over RRP 6k on an Explorer1 or 8k for an Explorer 11 are a little more manageable than a 25k Daytona outlay or 12-13k on a GMT.

Watchfinder are maybe finding that out but will be of interest to see how much of this sale stock does sell and not just the so called Hot pieces.

[benwisback]

Loads on Watchmaster shown with a discount also -

For eg https://www.watchmaster.com/en/shop/rolex/gmt-master-ii




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[Haywood_Milton]

Loads on Watchmaster shown with a discount also -

For eg https://www.watchmaster.com/en/shop/rolex/gmt-master-ii

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Hahahahahahaha......search for previous threads about Watchmaster and discounts.

Edit : here’s a freebie for you https://forum.tz-uk.com/showthread.p...aster+discount

There is a lot of wishful thinking about prices in the current crop of threads.

[thestore]

Yep, loads of BLNRs for £11,875-£14,950.

About five for £11,875-£11,975.

Maybe winter has come for Rolex sports models?

I sure hope so! A short wait at an AD and no silly games, or perhaps a small a small premium to purchase with no wait for impatient people like myself :)

[thestore]

Hahahahahahaha......search for previous threads about Watchmaster and discounts.

Edit : here’s a freebie for you https://forum.tz-uk.com/showthread.p...aster+discount

There is a lot of wishful thinking about prices in the current crop of threads.

Slightly off topic but I just spotted this on that link:

https://www.watchmaster.com/en/rolex...ode=CPFG4MLLGX

What an abomination!

[benwisback]

Hahahahahahaha......search for previous threads about Watchmaster and discounts.

Edit : here’s a freebie for you https://forum.tz-uk.com/showthread.p...aster+discount

There is a lot of wishful thinking about prices in the current crop of threads.

I’m only noting that they’re showing discounts currently. I’m not interested in buying from them myself. I think it’s interesting how many of these hard to buy from Rolex Rolex’s are available on the pre-owned market also - just looking at GMTs for example, there’s 15 on watchfinder, 43 on watchmaster alone.


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[ozzyb123]

I’m only noting that they’re showing discounts currently. I’m not interested in buying from them myself. I think it’s interesting how many of these hard to buy from Rolex Rolex’s are available on the pre-owned market also - just looking at GMTs for example, there’s 15 on watchfinder, 43 on watchmaster alone.


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And hundreds on chrono24


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[Jlynch1984]

WF have continued to up prices, likely this was done recently in order to facilitate sale so punters think they are “getting a deal” right before Christmas.... prob not a coincidence!

[Haywood_Milton]

Watchfinder...

Watchmaster...

Chrono24...

These threads are focusing on some of the most expensive places for watches at a time when they have been relentlessly pushing prices skywards for a year or more. If things are slowing or reducing a little in these places that does not show the market as a whole is reducing.

Watches priced a little more keenly elsewhere are flying out, at prices which are considerably higher than even six months ago.

[oldoakknives]

Still loads of Batmans (Batmen?) for sale. Struggling to sell at 12k

Many trust Watchfinder more than chrono24 and other greys, so I would suspect they can charge a premium above market rate

So maybe something closer to 11k is where the market achieves clearing on Watchfinder

Might mean 10-10.5 is where everyone else needs to be...

Was offered a Batman and a Pepsi last Friday at an event at a jewellers, price was 14k and 14.5k !! Politely turned them down and perused the new Seiko instead!

[oldoakknives]

There is downward pressure on only the most extreme market-makers.

Even in recent weeks, putting out watches for higher prices than I ever have before, I see them sell almost instantly and feel momentum pushing the next examples higher. That will be less than WF and others, but their madness is not the absolute measure of the market some seem to think.

I believe the man selling them week in week out might possibly know what he's talking about.

[Boss13]

Is it really the case that WF dictates rolex prices in the used market?

They are certainly a reference point but the worldwide demand will not change by this sale. Come Jan things will be back to normal.

Or for those who love a conspiracy theory, could it be Richemont making their move buying up plenty of rolex stock, keeping prices high so they don't sell and then a sudden drop!

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[893bet]

There is downward pressure on only the most extreme market-makers.

Even in recent weeks, putting out watches for higher prices than I ever have before, I see them sell almost instantly and feel momentum pushing the next examples higher. That will be less than WF and others, but their madness is not the absolute measure of the market some seem to think.

Time will tell.

I wouldn’t under estimate the impact of WF lowering prices on the buying/selling mentality of the average WIS.

If you are in it for the profit then seeing the top of the market reached would make one want to sell now-which means prices fall as supply increases.

If you are not in it for the profit and like the average buyer just wants the watch at a price where you won’t entirely loose ones ass then would you buy now? Nope. Less demand and prices also drop.

Add in brexit, global recession potential, hong kong etc.

Perhaps it’s just a slip blip and the upward trend will continue. Looking at prices on Rolexforums sales forum I see private asking prices dropping.

I got no dog in the game either way. Got rid of my blnr recently (at a decent wedge less than the WF lowest price and I paid euro retail so my profit was fairly small) and no desire to replace at the moment.

[Hood]

The first few going on SC

[taz11]

Not much of sale the blnr are 2014 years at 12k

[ozzyb123]

Not much of sale the blnr are 2014 years at 12k

Whilst Watchfinder isn’t the be all and end all, it’s one of the biggest most well known players in the secondary watch market

I think what people are commenting on is what this means in a broader context - maybe £15k for a Batman or a hulk was just too hot to handle. And given they didn’t all sell at under 12.5k shows there’s some way to go before we get to the “right” price

Below are Batman prices over the last year on chrono24 for anyone defensive on the topic




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[peter2704]

All it takes is Rolex to up rrp and the status quo will be resumed

[~dadam02~]

Whilst Watchfinder isn’t the be all and end all, it’s one of the biggest most well known players in the secondary watch market

I think what people are commenting on is what this means in a broader context - maybe £15k for a Batman or a hulk was just too hot to handle. And given they didn’t all sell at under 12.5k shows there’s some way to go before we get to the “right” price

Below are Batman prices over the last year on chrono24 for anyone defensive on the topic




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Is that graph even right, on what planet were Batman's worth only £8.5k a year ago? Certainly not this one.

[Boss13]

Is that graph even right, on what planet were Batman's worth only £8.5k a year ago? Certainly not this one.

Think they may have been close to that. It was before they were discontinued. I assume we are talking about the 116710 for a trade or private sale price rather than WF retail price.

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[jackin_jill]

Is that graph even right, on what planet were Batman's worth only £8.5k a year ago? Certainly not this one.

I'm pretty sure they were before they were discontinued. They were trading for around a £2k premium over RRP.

[893bet]

Is that graph even right, on what planet were Batman's worth only £8.5k a year ago? Certainly not this one.

Memories are short


12 months ago
https://forum.tz-uk.com/showthread.p...highlight=Blnr

8.8kand needed to be reduced to sell to 8.6! The watch was a month old.

14 months ago
https://forum.tz-uk.com/showthread.p...highlight=Blnr
7.8k reduced to 7.5k

[~dadam02~]

Gosh yes I was just checking back also, I was completely wrong. Can see why prices are falling so quickly then

[farmkid]

To be fair - only £14,325 over list now

[744ER]

The PM models should be similarly affected, seen a few Xmas daytonas with significant price decreases lately too, still unsold.

[bokbok]

All it takes is Rolex to up rrp and the status quo will be resumed

So will that help sell them ?

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[cyrusir]

as usual haywood is right, WF's MO is to chase the market up, such that they are always ahead of it, if they have to drop the premium a little so be it, they can chase it up again if there is demand.

for most of us it matters little, my hulk might be worth less than i think but the cost to change it to a daytona is around about the same, i.e. too high

[peter2704]

So will that help sell them ?

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Might do, if rrp goes up then the difference is reduced and some will then buy to have the watch sooner rather than in possibly 2/3 years.i think it’s the over rrp differential that’s getting out of hand , that is if you want one not if you have one

[bokbok]

Might do, if rrp goes up then the difference is reduced and some will then buy to have the watch sooner rather than in possibly 2/3 years.i think it’s the over rrp differential that’s getting out of hand , that is if you want one not if you have one

Rrp goes up 5% like last time won't mean a lot really on hulk that was Rrp £7150 and is used selling for 13k plus. prices are falling slightly and that is how it is.

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[jonny]

It's not a proper 'sale'.

Just a lessening of the premium to shift some stock at what is typically a slow part of the year.

slow part of the year?

The last quarter of the year has always been the busiest season for jewellers in the run up to xmas.

[893bet]

This is the anxiety/denial phase.

[Flasher]

slow part of the year?

The last quarter of the year has always been the busiest season for jewellers in the run up to xmas.

As many have commented, a one off sale to generate some interest pre Christmas build up does not yet signify a wide spread drop in Rolex, Patek prices etc but if the drops continue post Christmas and into early next year, then I think it will be safe to say that the boom is ending either with a full bomb or a slow trickle downwards on prices until they reach a sweet spot for buyers.

If prices do start to drop consistently then many who were hoping for continuous gains start to cash in and that leads to a glut of stock everywhere putting more pressure on pricing. We will need to watch over the coming weeks and months for a definitive on the market.

[boring_sandwich]

I am sure there will have to be a price correction at some point with most sports Rolex currently selling over RRP.
If you go back only 2-3 years nearly all the then current sports models were obtainable from dealers below RRP.
Example I purchased a 2016 Sub ND which was a few months old at the time and retailed at £5000 for £4600 from Blowers.
Anyone who cannot see it is deluded in my opinion.

[Jdh1]

As others have pointed out, this sports Rolex/Patek madness is a little over a year old. It has all the hallmarks of a huge bubble. What causes something to be slow to sell at £8,500 a year ago and seen as a bargain today at £12,000? Market forces driven by momentum. That momentum will turn.

[TKH]

all good fun....

what must be remembered is that WF is in business to make a profit....simply sitting on stock does not pay the bills they need circulation of capital employed hence the sale which will generate profit and cash to buy fresh stock....

[Flasher]

all good fun....

what must be remembered is that WF is in business to make a profit....simply sitting on stock does not pay the bills they need circulation of capital employed hence the sale which will generate profit and cash to buy fresh stock....

With Richemont pulling the strings now at WF there’s should be no worry on the capital front but like every business, luxury goods or not, the pressure is there to deliver consistent high returns and as said, non shifting stock and talk of falling prices is certainly not in their interest.

If I was a buyer currently and looking at how much WF can drop on the price of Sub etc during this sale, you would be asking for similar price drops on any purchase from them. Maybe this sale gets a conversation started with potential buyers phoning in or maybe puts others off from purchasing as they feel the prices can go further down if you can suddenly drop 2-3k off your asking price.

[jackin_jill]

We all know how sales work and why stores have them. The point is that Rolex professional stock (in the past 3 years especially) has never needed a kick and has always sold itself due to crazy high demand. If they are dropping the price they are trying to entice buyers which means demand is dropping.

You don't have a sale on stock that's flying out the door - its as simple as that.

[Hooshabak]

all good fun....

what must be remembered is that WF is in business to make a profit....simply sitting on stock does not pay the bills they need circulation of capital employed hence the sale which will generate profit and cash to buy fresh stock....

What business isn’t in the business of making a profit 🧐

[Haywood_Milton]

We all know how sales work and why stores have them. The point is that Rolex professional stock (in the past 3 years especially) has never needed a kick and has always sold itself due to crazy high demand. If they are dropping the price they are trying to entice buyers which means demand is dropping.

You don't have a sale on stock that's flying out the door - its as simple as that.

Tell me, why does DFS always have a sale on?

Were you aware of Watchfinder's previous sales?

I'm in retail. I've had very close connections to Watchfinder. I specialise in Rolex watches. I've found a number of your assertions difficult to reconcile with what I know. In the next week or two I'll be putting out a BLNR, a BLRO, a steel Date Sub and a previous generation GMT. In each instance they will be more expensive than the last equivalent that I put on sale and I have no doubt that they will sell quickly.

[jackin_jill]

Ok mate, you're right. I apologise for challenging you.

I stupidly assumed that if a stock was flying off the shelves then a sale would be the last thing on the agenda.

[Haywood_Milton]

Ok mate, you're right. I apologise for challenging you.

I stupidly assumed that if a stock was flying off the shelves then a sale would be the last thing on the agenda.

There's more to it than that, as has been stated clearly more than once in the thread.

[744ER]

Tell me, why does DFS always have a sale on?

Were you aware of Watchfinder's previous sales?

I'm in retail. I've had very close connections to Watchfinder. I specialise in Rolex watches. I've found a number of your assertions difficult to reconcile with what I know. In the next week or two I'll be putting out a BLNR, a BLRO, a steel Date Sub and a previous generation GMT. In each instance they will be more expensive than the last equivalent that I put on sale and I have no doubt that they will sell quickly.

What if you had 15 of each of those models in stock? or more... who knows how many WF have, really...

[893bet]

Is everyone ignoring the c24 graph also?

Or the dropping prices for private sales on the Rolex forums etc.

Maybe it’s a blip. And they will keep climbing.

I think it’s the start of a correction. They ain’t going below RRP any time soon obviously.

[petay993]

Tell me, why does DFS always have a sale on?



In the next week or two I'll be putting out a BLNR, a BLRO, a steel Date Sub and a previous generation GMT. In each instance they will be more expensive than the last equivalent that I put on sale and I have no doubt that they will sell quickly.

If your key driver is profit then of course this strategy makes sense.

[Haywood_Milton]

If your key driver is profit then of course this strategy makes sense.

Not sure if there’s more to that statement, but I can state my position proudly. I am both a dealer, collector and tz-uk member who loves one brand unashamedly.

[petay993]

Not sure if there’s more to that statement, but I can state my position proudly. I am both a dealer, collector and tz-uk member who loves one brand unashamedly.

The statement is what you read, no more, no less.

Whilst I accept that your stock is generally well priced, I wonder, why do you feel the need to announce further price rises when the market is clearly turning, perhaps you are auditioning for the role of King Canute