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Thread: Top up O2 PAYG SIM with less than £10?

  1. #1
    Grand Master markrlondon's Avatar
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    Question Top up O2 PAYG SIM with less than £10?

    I have an O2 PAYG SIM. My intention is to port the number to another service provider. However, to do that I need to top it up at least once. But O2 won't allow any top up by any method of less than £10 (as far as I can see).

    I don't mind effectively reimbursing them say £2-£3 for the costs of making and distributing the SIM but paying extra for 'credit' that I don't need, can't use, and will be thrown away when I port irks me.

    Does anyone know how to top up an O2 PAYG SIM for less than £10?
    Last edited by markrlondon; 17th November 2019 at 00:05.

  2. #2
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    You might try ringing their customer services and see if your number has any sort of tariff applied to it. I use a phone very sparingly so still have an o2 payg but I found out they do have cheaper rates if you ask. But they also credited me £10 for being a "good customer". They might do the same, no need to mention leaving....

  3. #3
    Grand Master markrlondon's Avatar
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    Thanks. I should of course have mentioned that this is a brand new SIM, never used before. I have not yet been a good customer. ;-)

    I just want to avoid paying O2 for usage that I'm never going to get. But O2 does not and will not issue a PAC until after a SIM has had its first top up, and the minimum top up is £10. Hence me looking for ways to top up less than £10.

  4. #4
    Is it a 'special' number?

  5. #5
    Grand Master MartynJC (UK)'s Avatar
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    If you’ve never used the SIM - just wondering why you want to keep the number? Why not just get a new number with the new supplier?

  6. #6
    Strangely I had the same issue last week. £9 credit on it for some reason but couldn’t top up a quid to purchase the cheapest package. Spent about an hour in the shop over that. Eventually they found that the balance was actually £9 plus £1 “reserved”. No I don’t know what that means either. After plonking myself down in the chair (it was raining outside) they finally got customer services on the other end of an internet chat, to agree to releasing the £1 so I could buy the £10 package.

    It occurred to me many times how stupid this whole thing was (mainly on my part) for the sake of £10 but the challenge is too tempting.

    They have some stupid rules and sometimes it’s worth Spitting the dummy to point that out.

  7. #7
    Grand Master markrlondon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kingstepper View Post
    Is it a 'special' number?
    Quote Originally Posted by MartynJC (UK) View Post
    If you’ve never used the SIM - just wondering why you want to keep the number? Why not just get a new number with the new supplier?
    It's a decent memorable number. I am happier with Tesco's deactivation policy for PAYG numbers than O2's hence the desire to move it onto Tesco.

    However, I may keep it on O2 for now, top it up, run down the credit, and then port it.

  8. #8
    Grand Master markrlondon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by catch21 View Post
    Eventually they found that the balance was actually £9 plus £1 “reserved”.
    If this was O2 then the "reserved" £1 was probably the "lend us a quid" money. Usually this is only accessible on request if you have less than 50p credit remaining.

    Quote Originally Posted by catch21 View Post
    It occurred to me many times how stupid this whole thing was (mainly on my part) for the sake of £10 but the challenge is too tempting.

    They have some stupid rules and sometimes it’s worth Spitting the dummy to point that out.
    Yup, this. O2's minimum topup is very annoying.

  9. #9
    Grand Master oldoakknives's Avatar
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    Tenner seems pretty cheap to keep a 'decent memorable number' to me.
    Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.

  10. #10
    Grand Master markrlondon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldoakknives View Post
    Tenner seems pretty cheap to keep a 'decent memorable number' to me.
    It irks me since I am being effectively forced into paying for a service that I do not want and do not need. That has been called mis-selling in other scenarios. ;-)

    Yes, £10 isn't much in the grand scheme of things but it's nevertheless enough for me to try and find way of avoiding it when, as above, I don't need it or want it. Some other telcos will provide a PAC without an initial topup. As said, I don't mind paying something to reimburse O2 for their costs so far but £10 is excessive imo, even if not much in and of itself.

  11. #11
    Grand Master oldoakknives's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by markrlondon View Post
    It irks me since I am being effectively forced into paying for a service that I do not want and do not need. That has been called mis-selling in other scenarios. ;-)

    Yes, £10 isn't much in the grand scheme of things but it's enough for me to try and find way of avoiding it when, as above, I don't need it or want it. Some other telcos will provide a PAC without an initial topup. As said, I don't mind paying something to reimburse O2 for their costs so far but £10 is excessive imo, even if not much in and of itself.
    Well thats fine, but you're effectively expecting them to provide you with their number and sort out the porting to another (rival probably) provider free gratis. For a payg sim that you probably got free in the first place. I can see why you want to avoid any costs, but surely you can see why they might want to recover some recompense. In a similar situation would you be willing to provide a free service?
    Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.

  12. #12
    Grand Master markrlondon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldoakknives View Post
    Well thats fine, but you're effectively expecting them to provide you with their number and sort out the porting to another (rival probably) provider free gratis.
    No, that is not true. As I said above twice: I don't mind paying something to reimburse O2 for their costs so far in terms of producing and distributing the SIM but £10 is excessive imo. (See #1 and #10).

    Secondly, even if I did expect them to do it for free (i.e. without even an initial topup), that would not be unreasonable in comparison to some other providers who do do it for free.

    Indeed, porting is always in and of itself free of charge across all UK mobile providers due to Ofcom rules. It's just that O2 want you to buy credit (that you cannot then use) in order to issue a 'free' PAC.

    Quote Originally Posted by oldoakknives View Post
    surely you can see why they might want to recover some recompense.
    As I said twice before, I am willing to reimburse them a reasonable amount. But I nevertheless think that £10 is unreasonable and, worse, it is in fact explicitly a charge for a service that I do not need, do not want, and could not use if I did port out immediately after paying it.

    Quote Originally Posted by oldoakknives View Post
    In a similar situation would you be willing to provide a free service?
    Absolutely, yes! It's good customer service. I have had to do similar: I have freely handed over customer data (with permission, of course) to my competitors when customers have wanted to use someone else.

    I do this happily because what you give away you tend to get back. People like it when you let them go without charging them. Do bear in mind that the mobile number porting process is now automated (it has to be automated due to the volume of ports, all free in and of themselves). I.e. It has virtual zero marginal cost.

  13. #13
    Grand Master oldoakknives's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by markrlondon View Post
    No, that is not true. As I said above twice: I don't mind paying something to reimburse O2 for their costs so far in terms of producing and distributing the SIM but £10 is excessive imo. (See #1 and #10).

    Secondly, even if I did expect them to do it for free (i.e. without even an initial topup), that would not be unreasonable in comparison to some other providers who do do it for free.

    Indeed, porting is always in and of itself free of charge across all UK mobile providers due to Ofcom rules. It's just that O2 want you to buy credit (that you cannot then use) in order to issue a 'free' PAC.



    As I said twice before, I am willing to reimburse them a reasonable amount. But I nevertheless think that £10 is unreasonable and, worse, it is in fact explicitly a charge for a service that I do not need, do not want, and could not use if I did port out immediately after paying it.



    Absolutely, yes! It's good customer service. I have had to do similar: I have freely handed over customer data (with permission, of course) to my competitors when customers have wanted to use someone else.

    I do this happily because what you give away you tend to get back. People like it when you let them go without charging them. Do bear in mind that the mobile number porting process is now automated (it has to be automated due to the volume of ports, all free in and of themselves). I.e. It has virtual zero marginal cost.
    How much do you think would be a reasonable cost? 10p? 20? And as you say porting is foc so basically you want to have a service for nothing. So otherwise they would have to charge for porting. Yes I'll have your number but take it elsewhere for free.
    Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.

  14. #14
    Grand Master markrlondon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldoakknives View Post
    How much do you think would be a reasonable cost? 10p? 20?
    Read the thread. I have already addressed this.

    Quote Originally Posted by oldoakknives View Post
    And as you say porting is foc so basically you want to have a service for nothing.
    Once again, this is not true.

    As I have said three times now in this thread, I am willing to pay a reasonable fee for services rendered so far. But I am unhappy about paying for a telephone service that I don't need, don't want, and can't use. That would be unreasonable and yet, due to O2's rather large (imo) minimum topup, it is effectively forced upon me.

    Quote Originally Posted by oldoakknives View Post
    So otherwise they would have to charge for porting
    No, they would not. They could not. They cannot. Porting is always free to the customer because Ofcom has specified to all UK telcos that it must be free.

    The fee that O2 wishes to charge is for telephone service. The issue with this is that it is a service that I don't need, don't want, and cannot use if I am going to port out. As I have now said multiple times, it is the fact that their minimum topup is the fairly large £10 that is, for me, the central problem: It is an unreasonable amount simply to cover O2's fair costs so far in terms of manufacturing and distributing their SIM; its size forces me to pay extra for a telephone service that I don't want, don't need, and cannot use if porting out.

    Remember that (some) other telcos can and do issue PACs without needing a topup first. Why? Because it is good customer service and it has virtually zero marginal cost since it is automated. It is a perfectly reasonable thing for them to do and for customers to expect. Similarly, I too do not charge customers if and when they wish me to hand on their notes to competitors. Why? Because it is good customer service.
    Last edited by markrlondon; 17th November 2019 at 01:30.

  15. #15
    Grand Master oldoakknives's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by markrlondon View Post
    Read the thread. I have already addressed this.



    Once again, this is not true.

    As I have said three times now in this thread, I am willing to pay a reasonable fee for services rendered so far. But I am unhappy about paying for a telephone service that I don't need, don't want, and can't use. That would be unreasonable and yet, due to O2's rather large (imo) minimum topup, it is effectively forced upon me.



    No, they would not. They could not. They cannot. Porting is always free to the customer because Ofcom has specified to all UK telcos that it must be free.

    The fee that O2 wishes to charge is for telephone service. The issue with this is that it is a service that I don't need, don't want, and cannot use if I am going to port out. As I have now said multiple times, it is the fact that their minimum topup is the fairly large £10 that is, for me, the central problem: It is an unreasonable amount simply to cover O2's fair costs so far in terms of manufacturing and distributing their SIM; its size forces me to pay extra for a telephone service that I don't want, don't need, and cannot use if porting out.

    Remember that (some) other telcos can and do issue PACs without needing a topup first. Why? Because it is good customer service and it has virtually zero marginal cost since it is automated. It is a perfectly reasonable thing for them to do and for customers to expect. Similarly, I too do not charge customers if and when they wish me to hand on their notes to competitors. Why? Because it is good customer service.
    Mate, you're trying to save a tenner. How much do you think is reasonable?
    Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.

  16. #16
    Master ingenioren's Avatar
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    TEXT PAC TO 65075 for your PAC code

    I hardly use my mobile these days hence hve ported my mobile no. to Lebara (Vodaphone !) either PAYG or 5.00/month rolling - can cancel anytime

    good luck !

    (I don't think any provider can withhold your PAC code )

    Caution, they may waive the tenner, and charge 20 for 'admin' :-)

    If you want good memorable number/s - go to Ebay, have sourced a few there at reasonable money (bearing in mind you can retain the number for life !)


    Cheers, Peter
    Last edited by ingenioren; 17th November 2019 at 08:41.

  17. #17
    Master ingenioren's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldoakknives View Post
    Tenner seems pretty cheap to keep a 'decent memorable number' to me.

    Must agree, although some very good numbers on Ebay at reasonable money, have purchased a few there ...

  18. #18
    Years ago could look through the numbers (w/o opening the packaging) in somewhere like Tesco. Got a nice one containing a quadruple number.

  19. #19
    Master ingenioren's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kingstepper View Post
    Years ago could look through the numbers (w/o opening the packaging) in somewhere like Tesco. Got a nice one containing a quadruple number.
    Years ago, so much was better / easier

  20. #20
    Mark - have you tried texting 'PAC' to 65075? Believe it should be free.

  21. #21
    Grand Master jwg663's Avatar
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    From reading the OP again, it appears (to me, anyway) that the SIM hasn't been activated & that a £10 top-up is required to make it operational.

    Can you port a number from a SIM that's never been activated? I don't know: does anyone on here know?
    ______

    ​Jim.

  22. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by jwg663 View Post
    From reading the OP again, it appears (to me, anyway) that the SIM hasn't been activated & that a £10 top-up is required to make it operational.

    Can you port a number from a SIM that's never been activated? I don't know: does anyone on here know?
    I see, thought he possibly couldn't contact them w/o money on the card.

    Can see might have to be activated otherwise not even a 'real' O2 number.

  23. #23
    Grand Master markrlondon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldoakknives View Post
    Mate, you're trying to save a tenner. How much do you think is reasonable?
    I've already addressed this point.

  24. #24
    Grand Master markrlondon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ingenioren View Post
    TEXT PAC TO 65075 for your PAC code

    I hardly use my mobile these days hence hve ported my mobile no. to Lebara (Vodaphone !) either PAYG or 5.00/month rolling - can cancel anytime
    Quote Originally Posted by Kingstepper View Post
    Mark - have you tried texting 'PAC' to 65075? Believe it should be free.
    Yes, I've tried this. Cannot send texts (not even to 65075) until an initial topup is done.


    Quote Originally Posted by ingenioren View Post
    (I don't think any provider can withhold your PAC code )

    Caution, they may waive the tenner, and charge 20 for 'admin' :-)
    They can't charge an 'admin' fee since, as I understand it, that would contravene the Ofcom rules. And they cannot withhold a PAC code, in and of itself. BUT... they can and do have a rule that you must pay an initial topup to be able to do most things on the account.

    I think I'll try calling their customer services and see they say. Before that I'll have a look at the details of Ofcom's rules.

    Will report back on what I find out.
    Last edited by markrlondon; 18th November 2019 at 01:51.

  25. #25
    Grand Master markrlondon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jwg663 View Post
    From reading the OP again, it appears (to me, anyway) that the SIM hasn't been activated & that a £10 top-up is required to make it operational.

    Can you port a number from a SIM that's never been activated? I don't know: does anyone on here know?
    What is the definition of "activated" -- plugged into a phone or initially topped up? This SIM is operational in a phone and can receive calls and it can successfully call the topup line on 4444. But sending texts is not allowed. The only thing I have not yet done is an initial topup.

    In general you definitely can port away a number that has never had a topup, but it depends on the telco. Tesco Mobile, for instance, will usually allow this.




    P.S. I just noticed that it cannot receive texts. As far as I know, it should be able to do so even without being topped up. I think I'll try it in a different phone.

    P.P.S. Ah, it can receive texts afterall. But it cannot send any texts, not even to 65075.
    Last edited by markrlondon; 19th November 2019 at 19:19.

  26. #26
    Did you buy the card? They could argue that you're not a customer and no contract exists until you top up.

  27. #27
    Grand Master markrlondon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kingstepper View Post
    Years ago could look through the numbers (w/o opening the packaging) in somewhere like Tesco.
    Depending on the telco and the particular outlet this is still possible. I have in front of me some Tesco and O2 SIMs in retail shop packaging and you can see the number externally. Perhaps unsurprisingly (since Tesco is an O2 MVNO), their retail packaging is virtually identical.

  28. #28
    Grand Master markrlondon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kingstepper View Post
    Did you buy the card? They could argue that you're not a customer and no contract exists until you top up.
    They could say anything but that would nevertheless be irrelevant. A PAC does not rely on the existence of a contract to either be issued or to exist.

  29. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by markrlondon View Post
    They could say anything but that would nevertheless be irrelevant. A PAC does not rely on the existence of a contract to either be issued or to exist.
    Not sure about this. Ofcom states you should contact your provider to request the PAC. Without a contract you do not have a provider. You just have one of their sims.

  30. #30
    Grand Master markrlondon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kingstepper View Post
    Without a contract you do not have a provider. You just have one of their sims.
    Not so. Right now, I have a phone number that successfully receives calls and texts. It's working. I demonstrably do have a provider. Indeed, it would be impossible to even topup the SIM unless the provider was well... providing a service.

    That I do not have an enforceable contract with them is a separate thing entirely to them being a willing, working, active mobile service provider.

  31. #31
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    I used to have a reasonably memorable number in that the initial 5 numbers were duplicated and then it finished with a 1. I had to get rid of it due to the amount of wrong number calls it was getting. 5+ a week!

  32. #32
    Grand Master markrlondon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enda View Post
    I used to have a reasonably memorable number in that the initial 5 numbers were duplicated and then it finished with a 1. I had to get rid of it due to the amount of wrong number calls it was getting. 5+ a week!
    I know what you mean. I have another memorable number that from time to time receives calls and texts for a someone who seems to be a drug dealer. I don't know if his real number is just very close to mine or he had the number before me (although it would have had to be years ago now).

  33. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by markrlondon View Post
    Not so. Right now, I have a phone number that successfully receives calls and texts. It's working. I demonstrably do have a provider. Indeed, it would be impossible to even topup the SIM unless the provider was well... providing a service.

    That I do not have an enforceable contract with them is a separate thing entirely to them being a willing, working, active mobile service provider.
    Fair enough, didn’t think it was working at all.

  34. #34
    Grand Master markrlondon's Avatar
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    Some progress. Will update with more info when I've got it. :-)

  35. #35
    Grand Master markrlondon's Avatar
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    Ok, I was able to successfully port the O2 PAYG number to Tesco Mobile. I did not have to topup first at O2 and I did not need to convert the O2 number to pay monthly and then cancel within the 14 day cooling off period (thanks to wileeeeeey for that idea). Here is how I did it.

    How to obtain a PAC to be able to port out a number from an O2 PAYG SIM without topping it up:-
    (1) Put the SIM in a phone. Don't top it up (obviously). It should now be able to receive SMSs and calls.
    (2) Register the SIM at https://accounts.o2.co.uk/register.
    This will send an authentication SMS to the phone. You'll also need to enter a name, date of birth, email address, password, and set a security question.
    (3) Now log into 'My O2' at the O2 website, o2.co.uk. (If you're not already logged in from step 2).
    (4) From the page where you can select the different devices on your account, click the 'Manage my details' link. You do not need to click on any device or phone number first.
    (5) On the next page, look for the 'Thinking of switching from O2?' section and then click the 'Continue ' link in that section.
    (6) On the next page, click 'Request a PAC code'.
    (7) You will be given a PAC on screen immediately and it will also be sent by SMS to your phone.

    Whilst this web-based route to getting a PAC is not hidden, it's not exactly obvious either.
    Last edited by markrlondon; 23rd November 2019 at 00:34.

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