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Thread: Rolex warranty dilemma

  1. #201
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    Rolex warranty dilemma

    Removed as it had already been said

  2. #202
    Grand Master Der Amf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Curtis View Post
    Martin Cowen at Pragnells is an honourable guy.
    Hasn't that word been in the news recently?

  3. #203
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaurasOtherHalf View Post
    FWIW, my AD sales manager was bemoaning this process when I went to pick up a warranty card this summer. He explicitly said he worried a couple of mistakes could cost them hundreds of pounds if the wrong cards were given out or lost "as Rolex charge us £120 for a new one"
    So, reading this ^

    which is consistent with this v



    do we think that Rolex CAN replicate the lost card?

    If they can.....
    Last edited by Haywood_Milton; 18th November 2019 at 21:48.

  4. #204
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    Even if they couldn't (which let's be honest, all signs point to them being able to do so) they could have quite simply taken a low value stock model and used the card from that for exchange.

    Then selling the low value model as second hand without warranty card in order to keep all customer happy. As others have said, I will never use that jewellers after reading this.

  5. #205
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    Rolex warranty dilemma

    Sounds like the OP is pleased with his deal for the lost card. Well done.

    Personally and after having concluded my deal with the AD, I would now chase after Rolex UK for my lost card.

    When likely told by Rolex after an initial letter that I have to deal with the selling AD I would share my corresponded from said AD illustrating that I as the customer was directly told that the card is unable to be replaced. How would they like me to proceed?

    My gut tells me that in a few months time and after a few more phone calls I would have a warranty card or at least official correspondence from Rolex UK basically doing the same thing as the card should. To me, that would be a win win.

    However one might question the morality of this or maybe question It I might be black listed by the AD. I should hopefully think not as I accepted the ADs word that they could not replace the card and as such struck a deal resulting in me buying watch, particularly an omega as I didnít want to bother with the warranty card issue again. I would be clear in my correspondence that I played by the ADs rules and trusted them to do what was right.

    My dealings with Rolex have nothing to do with them as I was acting as my own Ďagentí with Rolex UK and not using them, the AD as my agent. I would hope this approach would teach two things. As Harry Potter learned... you should not tell lies and my AD should learn this lesson. Secondly that Rolex should perhaps spend time supporting ADs to retain cards and have some kind of procedure in place so to not look ignorant and perhaps ill prepared for what was always likely to happen.
    Last edited by canuck; 18th November 2019 at 22:12.

  6. #206
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    I am glad the OP is happy.

    I am surprised people are arguing with Haywood,if anyone has Rolex knowledge its him not some bloke of the internet.

  7. #207
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    Long as op is happy then it's a winner but won't be choice of outcome

    Sent from my SM-A530F using Tapatalk

  8. #208
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    Quote Originally Posted by canuck View Post
    Sounds like the OP is pleased with his deal for the lost card. Well done.

    Personally and after having concluded my deal with the AD, I would now chase after Rolex UK for my lost card.

    When likely told by Rolex after an initial letter that I have to deal with the selling AD I would share my corresponded from said AD illustrating that I as the customer was directly told that the card is unable to be replaced. How would they like me to proceed?

    My gut tells me that in a few months time and after a few more phone calls I would have a warranty card or at least official correspondence from Rolex UK basically doing the same thing as the card should. To me, that would be a win win.

    However one might question the morality of this or maybe question It I might be black listed by the AD. I should hopefully think not as I accepted the ADs word that they could not replace the card and as such struck a deal resulting in me buying watch, particularly an omega as I didnít want to bother with the warranty card issue again. I would be clear in my correspondence that I played by the ADs rules and trusted them to do what was right.

    My dealings with Rolex have nothing to do with them as I was acting as my own Ďagentí with Rolex UK and not using them, the AD as my agent. I would hope this approach would teach two things. As Harry Potter learned... you should not tell lies and my AD should learn this lesson. Secondly that Rolex should perhaps spend time supporting ADs to retain cards and have some kind of procedure in place so to not look ignorant and perhaps ill prepared for what was always likely to happen.
    I for one think this is an excellent idea.

  9. #209
    I suppose Pragnell have read this thread.

    Not very good for their reputation.

  10. #210
    Craftsman Murdoc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haywood_Milton View Post
    So, reading this ^

    which is consistent with this v



    do we think that Rolex CAN replicate the lost card?

    If they can.....
    How disappointing that Pragnell didnít do more to help the OP after their mistake.

  11. #211
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    Quote Originally Posted by bwest76 View Post
    I am surprised people are arguing with Haywood,if anyone has Rolex knowledge its him not some bloke of the internet.
    Nothing should be surprising about what's said on the internet and indeed on this forum. It's also a topic that is not clear-cut, even Haywood admits this (from my reading of his posts anyway). Another reason for the differing views on this thread.

    I'm disappointed by Pragnells - either they don't know their own business, or they purposely chose to not provide the honest response.

  12. #212
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    Quote Originally Posted by Murdoc View Post
    How disappointing that Pragnell didnít do more to help the OP after their mistake.
    +1

    Iím glad the OP is happy.

    If I ever end up at the top of my ADís list, which I doubt, then I would certainly ask the question about what happens in a year if the guarantee is unavailable due to human error. I would try to get something in writing.

    D




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  13. #213
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    Quote Originally Posted by Murdoc View Post
    How disappointing that Pragnell didnít do more to help the OP after their mistake.
    This.

    Pragnells are a jeweller with an impeccable reputation and Iím really surprised (and disappointed) that they did not push back at Roles, whilst admitting it was their negligence which led to this situation.

    If there wasnít this stupid retention policy, endorsed by Rolex, then this issue could not have arisen.

    Were it me, I would be very hacked off in this situation and would be liaising directly with Rolex.

  14. #214
    Quote Originally Posted by lambs View Post
    when you put it like that it does sound like smart business by them. But I'm not sure if they made more money from me, you see, the watch I bought has never been sold before, it was a store demonstration model. the guarantee has not been activated yet (well it has now, for me) so this is a £16,000 watch that was reduced to £7,950 which I bought for £6,360. If they are still making a profit on that, then there must be a huge markup on watches!

    You think they sold it to you at a loss?

    Really?

  15. #215
    There are three issues here:

    1. Most important is the OP. Is he happy with the outcome/solution?
    It seems he is. Let us stop being offended by proxy
    2. Will/can Rolex issue a replacement card? The answer is most likely-yes, based on the
    Convincing case made by HM
    3. Is the ire with Pragnell justified? I am not so sure. I would put a lot of faith in Orcaleís endorsement and
    others experiences and OPís experience. The unfortunate situation with Rolex leaves most people with a need
    to find someone to blame or take out their frustrations on and no one more convenient than the AD. I see some
    Of that here. I donít think the AD is not asking Rolex to avoid having to pay for the warranty card or to get him to
    return the watch.

  16. #216
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rev-O View Post
    You think they sold it to you at a loss?

    Really?
    Irrelevant really, OP never said they made a loss. As long as OP is happy with the price of the Omega then it doesn't matter, discount was fairly healthy.

  17. #217
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    Quote Originally Posted by RAJEN View Post
    There are three issues here:

    1. Most important is the OP. Is he happy with the outcome/solution?
    It seems he is. Let us stop being offended by proxy
    2. Will/can Rolex issue a replacement card? The answer is most likely-yes, based on the convincing case made by HM
    3. Is the ire with Pragnell justified?
    1. If a naive seller is offered £500 for an old Paul Newman Daytona, but is happy, would it be unreasonable for us to discuss that? I would contend that his happiness is one aspect, the correct and fair handling of the problem possibly another - and fit matter for a watch forum.

    2. Goldsmiths dolly writes wrong name on warranty card for diamond-loaded white gold Pearlmaster. Green streak observed flying from West Malling direction.

    3. Did they sell him a watch for many thousands of pounds but retain his warranty card? Did they then lose it? Did they then do all they could to resolve the position with his best interests to the fore, restoring his position or putting him in a better one? Did they explore and advise him correctly of all available remedies?
    Last edited by Haywood_Milton; 19th November 2019 at 10:55.

  18. #218
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    I am betting the OP never envisaged what a can of worms he was opening when he turned to the forum for advice on his travails with Pragnell's. He wanted advice and he has had that in spades!!

    As DMR are currently holding 3 of my warranty cards I intend to call in later and run this scenario by the manager who has been in the Rolex game for 25 years and see what their approach would be should I suffer a similar fate.

  19. #219
    Lol, I donít want to argue with you, HM.
    May be you know something about that particular AD that we donít. It is possible and I would understand you may not want to spell it out Ina public forum.
    I donít think the OP is hard done by in this situation. Probably not an optimal outcome.
    The main question in my mind is- Did the AD know that it is possible to gat a replacement card and yet lie to the OP or the person handling it is not aware of it?
    If it is former, obviously reprehensible.
    I just want to give them benefit of doubt based on available info about hem.

  20. #220
    Quote Originally Posted by m.barn View Post
    Irrelevant really, OP never said they made a loss. As long as OP is happy with the price of the Omega then it doesn't matter, discount was fairly healthy.
    OK.

    As I said before: AD loses OP's card and ends up selling him another watch.

    I wish I got more business every time I screwed up.

    Who is out of pocket here? Maybe no one. Maybe both parties.

    As you said, as long as the OP is happy.

    (I wish I had clients like that! In my line of work -- I'm Vicar -- that would be something like "Sorry I messed up your mum's funeral; can I offer you a discount on a wedding?" No refund, nothing for free, just a discount.)

  21. #221
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    Quote Originally Posted by petay993 View Post
    I am betting the OP never envisaged what a can of worms he was opening when he turned to the forum for advice on his travails with Pragnell's. He wanted advice and he has had that in spades!!

    As DMR are currently holding 3 of my warranty cards I intend to call in later and run this scenario by the manager who has been in the Rolex game for 25 years and see what their approach would be should I suffer a similar fate.
    I am sure we will all be interested to hear the answer, please let us know.

    Sent from my SM-N960F using Tapatalk

  22. #222
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    Quote Originally Posted by petay993 View Post
    I am betting the OP never envisaged what a can of worms he was opening when he turned to the forum for advice on his travails with Pragnell's. He wanted advice and he has had that in spades!!
    I am not sure that he followed it, albeit that he is happy.

    Quote Originally Posted by RAJEN View Post
    May be you know something about that particular AD that we don’t.
    Not in the least. I am sure they are upstanding and David (Oracle's) testimonial carries significant weight. Sometimes even the best get an individual case wrong and that's the limited scope of this discussion.

  23. #223
    Quote Originally Posted by Satori View Post
    Yes but I speak English and understand the difference between ďexchangedĒ and ďre-issuedĒ
    Think this is the nub of the matter and maybe Rolex just wonít budge.

  24. #224
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rev-O View Post
    I suppose Pragnell have read this thread.

    Not very good for their reputation.
    I suppose someone in Rolex UK's media team has read this thread as well.
    ______

    ​Jim.

  25. #225
    Quote Originally Posted by jwg663 View Post
    I suppose someone in Rolex UK's media team has read this thread as well.
    I have no idea but I find it hard to believe they bother with the haters, fanboys and nutters on the internet.

    You'd need a team of thousands just to keep up and to what end?

    I'd rather they read this, anyway:

    https://forum.tz-uk.com/showthread.p...41#post5252241

  26. #226
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    My colleague (wolfman here on tz-uk) raises an interesting scenario. Imagine :

    Your card has been given incorrectly to someone else.

    Their watch is then stolen.

    Very reasonably they, their insurers and the police all record the case number of the stolen watch as that shown on the warranty card erroneously supplied by the main agent.

    At some later point, you then try to have your watch serviced, or to sell it.

    Watch held / police called ?

    In due course you could prove that you had paid for it and what had happened, but not perhaps without some significant messing around first...

  27. #227
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haywood_Milton View Post
    In due course you could prove that you had paid for it and what had happened, but not perhaps without some significant messing around first...
    Or...your card is given to the wrong customer who somehow also received their correct one. Realizing this they sell said card for £500 which becomes attached to a fake watch but now containing a genuine serial number with card to prove it. A quick thinker then sends in the watch for a service.

    Where does this go!?!?

    As above... it only goes one way when the genuine watch heads in for a service.

  28. #228
    The problem isnít unique to the current withholding cards policy.

    Watches have been sold on here with wrong cards, presumably given in error by AD.

  29. #229
    This is a problem of Rolex's own making: they artificially restrict supply of certain models and thereby create not only demand but also a re-sale market for those who want to jump the queue (the entirely manufactured "waiting list").

    Then they instruct (or recommend? andis that really the same thing?) that ADs withhold cards for 12 months to prevent immediate re-sale at profit.

    Then they charge for and/or are ambiguous about replacing any cards mislaid by the ADs.

    They could just turn on the taps and meet, more or less, demand.

    I understand why they don't (or won't).

    They then should at least support ADs and/or customers whose cards get lost during that retention period: a period, remember, created by Rolex themselves.

    Now stop for a moment.

    Imagine you are not a member of tz-uk, not a "WIS" or whatever.

    Explain this scenario to a person on the street.

    Better still, an intelligent, knowledgable person. Someone who understands the basics of business and money and law and psychology. Not an expert, just your average white collar management or professional. Someone with a degree in any subject and another one from the university of life. Your brother or colleague or wife.

    I think they would be incredulous -- at Rolex, at the ADs and at us, the buyers. (Well, I say "us", I mean you or some of you: not me. I wouldn't buy a new Rolex for any number of largely related reasons that all boil down to their attitude and actions, from random serial numbers that only they can decode to making up all sorts of claims about "firsts" and "innovations" -- eg the first waterproof watch, the first on Everest etc etc)

    This whole thing stinks.

    Rolex make good watches. Not great watches, but very good ones. They have a fine history (although only relatively recently as a true in-house manufacture). They are a good product. But they are a bad business. I mean, ethically, morally bad. I wouldn't behave like that and I wouldn't tolerate it from those I work with -- whether above, below or alongside.

    I'm not a brand hater but I know BS when I smell it and I have no intention of stepping in this steaming pile.

    Buy a watch you like, can afford, is well-made -- and, if you are so minded, one that might hold its value. But this circus? No thanks. It's like some sort of nightmare Veblen Ponzi scheme.
    Last edited by Rev-O; 19th November 2019 at 17:49.

  30. #230
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    I don't doubt there'll be many more of these scenarios to come. I'm sure more than a few stores will find the process of filing and issuing warranty cards in a secure, methodical way beyond their abilities.

    Sent from my CLT-L09 using Tapatalk

  31. #231
    Master sean's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rev-O View Post
    Then they instruct (or recommend? andis that really the same thing?) that ADs withhold cards for 12 months to prevent immediate re-sale at profit.
    ...
    They then should at least support ADs and/or customers whose cards get lost during that retention period: a period, remember, created by Rolex themselves.
    Oracle here doesn't hold back cards, so it isn't mandatory. ADs have a choice.

    Let's face it, retaining warranty cards is a lazy way to do business. ADs could put in the effort and operate in the fashion Oracle has outlined, but some choose to sell the in-demand watches to people they clearly don't trust not to flip them. Retaining the cards is then the easiest way to show Rolex they're toeing the line.

    Regarding your second point, Rolex do supply replacement cards, we know that. It's the AD's position here that's in question. Did they knowingly mislead the OP? Are they misunderstanding Rolex's replacement warranty card policy? Have they even spoken to Rolex about this issue?

  32. #232
    Quote Originally Posted by sean View Post

    Regarding your second point, Rolex do supply replacement cards, we know that. It's the AD's position here that's in question. Did they knowingly mislead the OP? Are they misunderstanding Rolex's replacement warranty card policy? Have they even spoken to Rolex about this issue?
    We donít know that, all we know is that they exchange cards.

  33. #233
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kingstepper View Post
    We don’t know that, all we know is that they exchange cards.
    I think there's been sufficient evidence posted on the forum—some first hand, some from industry insiders—to say that Rolex do supply replacement cards.

    Quote Originally Posted by shoppy View Post
    They can get a replacement card, not sure if there is a time limit. I have had a new one ordered at cost. As the AD put my full name and address on card, with out asking. I said I was not confortable with my villa dress being on the card.
    Quote Originally Posted by Haywood_Milton View Post
    Replacement cards are available to main agents under certain circumstances, but at a significant cost to them.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oracle View Post
    If the AD has lost the card they will have to order a replacement card at their expense.

  34. #234
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kingstepper View Post
    We donít know that, all we know is that they exchange cards.
    Sorry, I'm sure I'm having a slow moment but what is the point of exchanging warranty cards?

    Sent from my CLT-L09 using Tapatalk

  35. #235
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    Quote Originally Posted by stefmcd View Post
    Sorry, I'm sure I'm having a slow moment but what is the point of exchanging warranty cards?

    Sent from my CLT-L09 using Tapatalk
    Error on the original card, serial incorrectly written etc?

  36. #236
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rev-O View Post
    You think they sold it to you at a loss?

    Really?
    I don't know for sure, but I would guess they did. I am led to believe dealers pay roughly 55% of list price for Omegas (or maybe they have special arrangements for display / demo watches which this was) since it was £16000 list, they probably paid around £8000 -£8500 for it. If they sold it to me for £6400, then that is a loss (maybe there is a tax write off involved I don't know that either). I'm sure someone here will know better, I would be interested to learn.

  37. #237
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    Quote Originally Posted by lambs View Post
    So, the issue was resolved amicably earlier today. Apparently, regardless of what has been said here, it is not possible under any circumstances to replace the warranty card. They did not want to swap my watch for a new one, so we agreed the following:
    10 year dealer warranty and 20% of any pre owned Omega or Tudor they have available (valid for 6 months).

    I was happy to agree to this because I have no immediate plans to sell the watch and may have need of the longer warranty, and because even when I do sell it I think the benefit of the 20% discount will outweigh the cost of not having the warranty card.

    I had already seen a watch I wanted, so as soon as we agreed the deal I bought it and saved £1,590 off the sticker price.

    this is what I got:

    https://www.omegawatches.com/en-us/w...402013001?ab=1


    A big thanks for all the helpful advice.
    Sounds like you got fleeced.... they even made more money off of you from a second hand watch... What a rubbish AD.

  38. #238
    OP have you checked your box/papers for a photocopy of the warranty card that the AD may have given at purchase but easily forgotten.

  39. #239
    Quote Originally Posted by sean View Post
    I think there's been sufficient evidence posted on the forum—some first hand, some from industry insiders—to say that Rolex do supply replacement cards.
    As far as I can see people are confusing exchange with replace.

    The 'evidence' is largely hearsay. The price list quoted as evidence for replacement cards wasn't.

    Indeed, evidence from OP's AD is that Rolex don't replace cards.
    Last edited by Kingstepper; 19th November 2019 at 21:35.

  40. #240
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kingstepper View Post
    As far as I can see people are confusing exchange with replace.

    The 'evidence' is largely hearsay. The price list quoted as evidence for replacement cards wasn't.

    Indeed, evidence from OP's AD is that Rolex don't replace cards.
    So in the case of "wrong guarantee given out" . . .



    . . . what will there be to exchange?

    The post was made to establish that while this policy applies it IS possible for Rolex to produce another card. It was then argued that if they CAN, in these circumstances every effort should to be made to see that they did.
    Last edited by Haywood_Milton; 19th November 2019 at 21:41.

  41. #241
    Quote Originally Posted by Haywood_Milton View Post
    So in the case of "wrong guarantee given out" . . .



    . . . what will there be to exchange?
    Surely the wrong guarantee is returned (or am I missing something here)?

  42. #242
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kingstepper View Post
    Surely the wrong guarantee is returned (or am I missing something here)?
    I had a mid-size with both the original and replacement warranty cards.

    Separately, what if in error the AD gave out the card for your GMT to the buyer of another, who paid in cash and left no address, or was from Tokyo? You'd be staggered how often main agents historically have given out the wrong accessories / papers etc. At one time Rolex UK even had a pre-printed sticker to apply over incorrect papers identified later, so common must the phenomenon have been!

    The point, however, is surely more about whether a second card CAN be produced, as it obviously could under this protocol. If it can, then these extraordinary circumstances would surely be suitable ones for consideration.
    Last edited by Haywood_Milton; 19th November 2019 at 21:48.

  43. #243
    Quote Originally Posted by Haywood_Milton View Post
    I had a mid-size with both the original and replacement cards.

    The point is surely more whether a second card CAN be produced, as it obviously could under this protocol. If it can, then these extraordinary circumstances would surely be suitable ones for consideration.
    Maybe their protocols have been tightened and they now won't issue replacement w/o original returned under any circumstances. Not their problem after all - AD's cock-up to sort out.

  44. #244
    Quote Originally Posted by Kingstepper View Post
    Maybe their protocols have been tightened and they now won't issue replacement w/o original returned under any circumstances. Not their problem after all - AD's cock-up to sort out.
    Tightening up protocols for publicly accessible/viewable aspects are one thing, ie pre printed stickers over incorrectly filled in cards, you tighten that up by charging the AD for a new card to correctly fill in...tightening up protocols to prevent fixing possible mistakes an AD may make, ie giving out a wrong card or simply losing it isnít realistic. If itís Ďthe ADís cock up to sort outí do you really think Rolex would agree buying the watch back at RRP and then then giving him a new watch and correct card while selling the old one for a nice profit is better than producing a new card?

  45. #245
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    Quote Originally Posted by prexelor View Post
    OP have you checked your box/papers for a photocopy of the warranty card that the AD may have given at purchase but easily forgotten.
    No it didn't occur to me, but when I read your post I had a vague recollection that I may have something like that. So I spent an hour searching for the box and paperwork (I kept them together in the original bag I got them in) and I couldn't find them, (I don't keep my watches in their original boxes because they clutter up the place and it's hard to find the one I want, so I put them all in 2 big boxes)The original boxes are scattered in cupboards and drawers all round the house. I know I haven't thrown it out, but I don't know where else to look, I reckon it will turn up if I wait long enough. I have misplaced a Montblanc Star Quantieme Complet for the last 4 months even though I know it's in the house. It's probably a sign I'm getting old. If I did find a photocopy, would that make a difference?

  46. #246
    Re: If I did find a photocopy, would that make a difference?

    If you do, may be you can approach Rolex directly and see what they can do.
    You should absolutely try and speak to Rolex because it is not your fault that the warranty card is lost.

  47. #247
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    When I picked up my BLNR a couple of months ago, I asked for a photocopy of the warranty card. They said it was the first time they had been asked for that.

  48. #248
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    Posts
    5,581
    Quote Originally Posted by alanm_3 View Post
    When I picked up my BLNR a couple of months ago, I asked for a photocopy of the warranty card. They said it was the first time they had been asked for that.
    In the past 2 years I’ve bought a 6 new Sports Rolex watches. Each one has had a photocopy of the warranty card..

    I’ve never needed to ask, it was done as part of the handover.

    Here’s the latest one..




  49. #249
    Master
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    Chester and Merseyside, UK
    Posts
    3,431
    Colleagues have messaged me today to say that a client has just been told that the warranty card for his latest purchase would be held by the main agent not for one year, as he expected, but two!

  50. #250
    Master
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Location
    Glasgow
    Posts
    4,249
    Quote Originally Posted by Haywood_Milton View Post
    Colleagues have messaged me today to say that a client has just been told that the warranty card for his latest purchase would be held by the main agent not for one year, as he expected, but two!
    To be fair, it may take some ADs longer to misplace important documents that don't belong to them.... ;-)

    Sent from my CLT-L09 using Tapatalk

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