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Thread: Rolex warranty dilemma

  1. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by markrlondon View Post
    Thanks for your comments. It is brave of you. :-)



    I am certainly willing to believe that their offer of a RRP refund was not predicated on intending to make a profit but the fact remains that they would end up making a profit, wouldn't they, in such a scenario. One can hardly ignore this fact.



    Oh come on, be realistic, there is no way whatsoever to guarantee that any business that is here today will be around in 10 years. No matter how successful Pragnells is or has been, that guarantees nothing whatsoever about the future that far ahead. Even two years ahead would be hard to predict, especially for B&M businesses.



    Indeed, they did make a human mistake in losing the card. But you must surely appreciate that it is notable that they then made yet another mistake by saying that Rolex could not or would not replace the warranty card. This is a doubly odd mistake, given that (a) plenty of people, including you, are aware that Rolex can and will replace warranty cards in this sort of scenario and (b) that, as you say, Pragnells have a great deal of collective experience that should have meant that they would know this too.

    Also, human error, understandable though it is to an extent, still doesn't actually excuse errors.



    I am genuinely impressed that you have chosen not to retain warranty cards. Good for you and I genuinely commend you for it.



    If I may play market-capitalist's advocate, I cannot help but note that you resell watches with a view to making a profit, i.e. you are explicitly profiting "at the expense of people who just want to buy their dream watch and enjoy many years hard wear out of one of the finest products on the planet". You'll note that I chose to use the word "profiting" rather than the emotive term "profiteering". Indeed, your use of the word "profiteering" begs the question of why your profit should be seen to be any more (or less) magically acceptable than someone else's profit. There seems to me to be no objectively concrete reason to differentiate one person's profit from another -- there seems to be only pure subjectivity or a kind of magical belief in some profits being more 'holy' than other profits. Furthermore, it surely seems entirely right and proper that anyone, both you and those who buy from you, should be able to resell their own stock or property.
    Hi Mark

    Thanks for your comments both kind and painful!!

    I agree that we do make a profit on Rolex, and should do to be in business, however please bear in mind the following excuses I'm about to make

    Since 2012 the AD's profit margin has been cut 3 times in the UK by Rolex primarily to stop the discounting which actually has worked well in principle. Then there is the obligation to buy replacement stock out of that reduced profit, pay for high security to protect the staff and stock that is so often targeted with the consequential high cost of insuring them. Throw in the fact that I and the rest of my staff do need paying at the end of each month (no commission BTW).
    Then factor in the cost to us of fitting or refitting dedicated Rolex sales rooms and windows together with an increase in core stock from around 65 watches in 2012 to 110 for our size business which altogether came to £300K and now needs updating in the New Year. Then there's the cost of organised Customer events to showcase the latest Basel collection and also the Rolex gifts that we buy from Rolex to give to our customers and suddenly that profit hasn't gone far....

    Going back to the warranty card issue it is again my personal belief that the warranty goes with the watch and that ultimately what the customer does with the watch is up to them. Luckily because of where we are and the way we try to look after our customers the watches go out of the shop on the wrist, links out and happy days. If they then decide to flip the watch there's nothing I can "flipping" do about it but it can score against you as an AD if Rolex find one of your watches up for sale straight after the AD has sold it.

    As I said it's up to the watch owner whether they flip or not but it doesn't mean I think it's fair and that to me is profiteering.

  2. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haywood_Milton View Post
    If there was an AD about which to make insinuations regarding the allocation of desirable models or the supply to "grey market" dealers, the business David works for was not it.

    H
    Thanks Haywood - it was beginning to feel a bit like Custer's Last Stand!!

  3. #153
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    So, the issue was resolved amicably earlier today. Apparently, regardless of what has been said here, it is not possible under any circumstances to replace the warranty card. They did not want to swap my watch for a new one, so we agreed the following:
    10 year dealer warranty and 20% of any pre owned Omega or Tudor they have available (valid for 6 months).

    I was happy to agree to this because I have no immediate plans to sell the watch and may have need of the longer warranty, and because even when I do sell it I think the benefit of the 20% discount will outweigh the cost of not having the warranty card.

    I had already seen a watch I wanted, so as soon as we agreed the deal I bought it and saved £1,590 off the sticker price.

    this is what I got:

    https://www.omegawatches.com/en-us/w...402013001?ab=1


    A big thanks for all the helpful advice.

  4. #154
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    Glad you're happy. I would never use the store after your shoddy experience.

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  5. #155
    Quote Originally Posted by lambs View Post
    So, the issue was resolved amicably earlier today. Apparently, regardless of what has been said here, it is not possible under any circumstances to replace the warranty card. They did not want to swap my watch for a new one, so we agreed the following:
    10 year dealer warranty and 20% of any pre owned Omega or Tudor they have available (valid for 6 months).

    I was happy to agree to this because I have no immediate plans to sell the watch and may have need of the longer warranty, and because even when I do sell it I think the benefit of the 20% discount will outweigh the cost of not having the warranty card.

    I had already seen a watch I wanted, so as soon as we agreed the deal I bought it and saved £1,590 off the sticker price.

    this is what I got:

    https://www.omegawatches.com/en-us/w...402013001?ab=1


    A big thanks for all the helpful advice.
    So the upshot of them screwing up is that they sold you another watch? By buying it they've made more money from you.

    OK.

    (I'm in the wrong line of work, obviously.)

  6. #156
    Glad your happy, and that’s all that matters

  7. #157
    Quote Originally Posted by lambs View Post
    So, the issue was resolved amicably earlier today. Apparently, regardless of what has been said here, it is not possible under any circumstances to replace the warranty card. They did not want to swap my watch for a new one, so we agreed the following:
    10 year dealer warranty and 20% of any pre owned Omega or Tudor they have available (valid for 6 months).

    I was happy to agree to this because I have no immediate plans to sell the watch and may have need of the longer warranty, and because even when I do sell it I think the benefit of the 20% discount will outweigh the cost of not having the warranty card.

    I had already seen a watch I wanted, so as soon as we agreed the deal I bought it and saved £1,590 off the sticker price.

    this is what I got:

    https://www.omegawatches.com/en-us/w...402013001?ab=1


    A big thanks for all the helpful advice.
    You would get 20% off any Omega just by asking.

    For me it should be replace the card or watch. If not I’ll see you in the small claims court.

    Sorry but you were had with that deal.

  8. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rev-O View Post
    So the upshot of them screwing up is that they sold you another watch? By buying it they've made more money from you.

    OK.

    (I'm in the wrong line of work, obviously.)
    when you put it like that it does sound like smart business by them. But I'm not sure if they made more money from me, you see, the watch I bought has never been sold before, it was a store demonstration model. the guarantee has not been activated yet (well it has now, for me) so this is a £16,000 watch that was reduced to £7,950 which I bought for £6,360. If they are still making a profit on that, then there must be a huge markup on watches!

  9. #159
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    Quote Originally Posted by lambs View Post
    So, the issue was resolved amicably earlier today. Apparently, regardless of what has been said here, it is not possible under any circumstances to replace the warranty card. They did not want to swap my watch for a new one, so we agreed the following:
    10 year dealer warranty and 20% of any pre owned Omega or Tudor they have available (valid for 6 months).

    I was happy to agree to this because I have no immediate plans to sell the watch and may have need of the longer warranty, and because even when I do sell it I think the benefit of the 20% discount will outweigh the cost of not having the warranty card.

    I had already seen a watch I wanted, so as soon as we agreed the deal I bought it and saved £1,590 off the sticker price.

    this is what I got:

    https://www.omegawatches.com/en-us/w...402013001?ab=1


    A big thanks for all the helpful advice.
    If you bought the pre owned solid Sedna Gold PO which already had 51% off and it was a watch you fancied plus another 20% it is a pretty stonking deal, however, once the initial excitement of that deal wears off I wonder if you will regret not pursuing your property more vigorously.

  10. #160
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    Quote Originally Posted by TAFKARM View Post
    You would get 20% off any Omega just by asking.

    For me it should be replace the card or watch. If not I’ll see you in the small claims court.

    Sorry but you were had with that deal.
    You might get 20% of new Omegas but I would argue that isn't the case with used/pre-owned

  11. #161
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    After all this you've settled for that, happy or not...pffft!

  12. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haywood_Milton View Post
    "I believe that Rolex will supply a replacement warranty card under certain circumstances, albeit at a fee which the retailer must bear. "

    The OP loses nothing by respectfully asking that the retailer communicates on the record with Rolex UK as suggested above and shares the correspondence with the OP.
    Quote Originally Posted by lambs View Post
    Apparently, regardless of what has been said here, it is not possible under any circumstances to replace the warranty card.
    Quote Originally Posted by Haywood_Milton View Post
    Any reticence or refusal to do as much might invite many questions.
    Oh dear. As long as the OP's happy etc., but not only do I think he's been stuffed, Pragnell hasn't done its reputation any good if this account is accurate.

  13. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by petay993 View Post
    If you bought the pre owned solid Sedna Gold PO which already had 51% off and it was a watch you fancied plus another 20% it is a pretty stonking deal, however, once the initial excitement of that deal wears off I wonder if you will regret not pursuing your property more vigorously.
    The thing is, that property is a piece of plastic that will only have value when and if I sell the watch, I estimate that value to be under £500 (assuming I sell the watch after 5 years). Since I saved more than that on the watch I bought I am happy. The lack of a warranty card will not affect the pleasure I get from using the watch in the meantime. I do not think there was a better outcome available.

  14. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by MST View Post
    After all this you've settled for that, happy or not...pffft!
    Sorry, can't please everyone

  15. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by sean View Post
    Oh dear. As long as the OP's happy etc., but not only do I think he's been stuffed, Pragnell hasn't done its reputation any good if this account is accurate.
    this is an excerpt from the email agreeing the new deal make of it what you will:


    Thank you for your email.

    Contrary to popular belief from many who do not work in the watch trade, unfortunately Rolex UK will not reissue guarantee cards. This is stated on their website (small print at the bottom). In response to your email, we are pleased to offer you the following

  16. #166
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    Quote Originally Posted by lambs View Post
    this is an excerpt from the email agreeing the new deal make of it what you will:


    Thank you for your email.

    Contrary to popular belief from many who do not work in the watch trade, unfortunately Rolex UK will not reissue guarantee cards. This is stated on their website (small print at the bottom). In response to your email, we are pleased to offer you the following
    Thanks for that. I wasn't really doubting your story, but you never know . Unfortunately for them, it isn't idle internet chatter, but one of the most knowledgeable people in the business suggesting Rolex may well replace the card.

    In such circumstances, if it's Haywood's word vs. [insert name here], I know who'd I'd believe. And as he says,

    Quote Originally Posted by Haywood_Milton View Post
    Any reticence or refusal to do as much might invite many questions.

  17. #167
    OP,
    I am glad for you that an outcome that was satisfactory to you was reached and you are happy. That is the ONLY thing
    that matters. I am not sure why some are getting their knickers in a twist and trying to make you feel as if you were violated in some matter and make you feel bad or dissatisfied.

  18. #168
    Quote Originally Posted by sean View Post
    Thanks for that. I wasn't really doubting your story, but you never know . Unfortunately for them, it isn't idle internet chatter, but one of the most knowledgeable people in the business suggesting Rolex may well replace the card.

    In such circumstances, if it's Haywood's word vs. [insert name here], I know who'd I'd believe.
    Agreed, and that's bolstered even further with people in this thread stating that they've obtained replacements.

    Either way, the OP seems to be pleased so I guess that's good.

  19. #169
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    Quote Originally Posted by RAJEN View Post
    OP,
    I am glad for you that an outcome that was satisfactory to you was reached and you are happy. That is the ONLY thing
    that matters. I am not sure why some are getting their knickers in a twist and trying to make you feel as if you were violated in some matter and make you feel bad or dissatisfied.
    'Cos the AD may have lied to the OP, for whatever reason. A lot of people on here don't like people who don't tell the truth.

    Also, most respondents have mentioned that it's good that the OP's happy.

  20. #170
    Lets be happy that the OP’s happy!


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  21. #171
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    Quote Originally Posted by lambs View Post
    this is an excerpt from the email agreeing the new deal make of it what you will:


    Thank you for your email.

    Contrary to popular belief from many who do not work in the watch trade, unfortunately Rolex UK will not reissue guarantee cards. This is stated on their website (small print at the bottom). In response to your email, we are pleased to offer you the following
    So it is.

    https://www.rolex.com/services/faq.html

    From the section entitled, 'How can I replace a lost Rolex guarantee card?':




    • People also ask:
      • "I lost my guarantee card, what do I do?" / "Can I replace my guarantee card?"

      The Rolex guarantee card cannot be re-issued under any circumstances. Please contact the Official Rolex Retailer from which you purchased your Rolex watch for assistance.
    ______

    ​Jim.

  22. #172
    Quote Originally Posted by jwg663 View Post
    So it is.

    https://www.rolex.com/services/faq.html

    From the section entitled, 'How can I replace a lost Rolex guarantee card?':




    • People also ask:
      • "I lost my guarantee card, what do I do?" / "Can I replace my guarantee card?"

      The Rolex guarantee card cannot be re-issued under any circumstances. Please contact the Official Rolex Retailer from which you purchased your Rolex watch for assistance.
    The "I" above is the customer, to whom it was never issued.

  23. #173
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    Quote Originally Posted by RAJEN View Post
    OP,
    I am glad for you that an outcome that was satisfactory to you was reached and you are happy. That is the ONLY thing
    that matters. I am not sure why some are getting their knickers in a twist and trying to make you feel as if you were violated in some matter and make you feel bad or dissatisfied.
    +1


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  24. #174
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    I'll just post this here for a minute and come back later....


  25. #175
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    Ouch.

  26. #176
    Quote Originally Posted by andyb View Post
    The "I" above is the customer, to whom it was never issued.
    Exactly this, so their website statement is not relevant.

  27. #177
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    Quote Originally Posted by lambs View Post
    Sorry, can't please everyone
    Clearly not, but Pragnell must be pretty chuffed!
    Last edited by MST; 19th November 2019 at 07:39.

  28. #178
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    Quote Originally Posted by andyb View Post
    The "I" above is the customer, to whom it was never issued.
    Was the watch registered to that customer?

    Yes, it was (it's done electronically at point of sale, I think).

    Is Rolex UK responsible for the drawer/safe/shoebox where an AD stores registered, but held-on-to warranty cards?

    Of course not: that's the responsibility of the retailer.

    The OP's complaint is with the retailer, who has told him that, as per Rolex UK's terms & conditions, he cannot obtain a replacement Warranty Card for the one they have mislaid. (I do wonder if, despite Rolex UK's 'under any circumstances' spiel, a retailer may be allowed to replace one or two before the privilege is withdrawn?)

    They have offered him other goods & services to recompense him for his loss.

    What else do you expect?
    ______

    ​Jim.

  29. #179
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haywood_Milton View Post
    I'll just post this here for a minute and come back later....

    Haywood_Milton, I don't want to be pedantic but all those options say exchange, there is no mention of a replacement for a lost card.

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  30. #180
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arcam View Post
    Haywood_Milton, I don't want to be pedantic but all those options say exchange, there is no mention of a replacement for a lost card.

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    ...and who lost the card? Not the customer!

    Could the retailer not reasonably conclude that they had given the wrong warranty out (which is explicitly covered above)?

    We read : "The Rolex guarantee card cannot be re-issued under any circumstances."

    Then we look at the image I posted.

    Is the former in fact the case, or is just the line taken with the public, to stop a million watch geeks bombarding them with requests for new warranty cards?
    Last edited by Haywood_Milton; 18th November 2019 at 20:58.

  31. #181
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haywood_Milton View Post
    ...and who lost the card? Not the customer!

    Could the retailer not reasonably conclude that they had given the wrong warranty out (which is explicitly covered above)?
    Would Rolex not expect an exchanged card to be returned to them?

    I am on the side of the OP and I believe Rolex via the AD should issue a new card as it should have been registered electronically and the details should be easy to verify.

    I am not questioning your knowledge in this regard as you may well have had to do this yourself in the past or have first hand knowledge of another AD who did get a replacement.

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  32. #182
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    So do we now have proof positive that Pragnell are correct? After all “exchange” and “re-issue” have completely different meanings in law and in common English.

    Either way OP that deal on the PO is spectacular and in any rational analysis it more than compensates. Enjoy it; it is a stunning piece.

  33. #183
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    If there are any circumstances in which a card may be replaced, what more deserving, relevant or appropriate than this?

    The retailer has withheld the buyer's warranty card, having been encouraged to do so by Rolex.

    The retailer appears then to have lost that warranty card.

    Their client has at all times acted correctly.

    If Rolex and their agent between them can replace a card (...on which the image in my post #174 may refer!), when would be more appropriate than now?
    Last edited by Haywood_Milton; 18th November 2019 at 21:18.

  34. #184
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haywood_Milton View Post
    If there are any circumstances in which a card may be replaced, what more deserving, relevant or appropriate than this?

    The retailer has withheld the buyer's warranty card, having been encouraged to do so by Rolex.

    The retailer appears then to have lost that warranty card.

    Their client has at all times acted correctly.

    If Rolex and their agent between them can replace a card, when would be more appropriate than now?
    100% agreed, the AD's best option would have been to replace the card, I can't believe they would not have had that conversation with Rolex.

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  35. #185
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haywood_Milton View Post
    If there are any circumstances in which a card may be replaced, what more deserving, relevant or appropriate than this?
    Totally agree but there are NO circumstances in which a card may be replaced so that is irrelevant to the current case.

  36. #186
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arcam View Post
    Would Rolex not expect an exchanged card to be returned to them?
    If the main agent gave your card out with the wrong watch, could you not then have a card for your watch until and unless that third party came back with it?

    If they lose it, sell it, move, die, can't be bothered or for any other reason won't / don't return your card, you lose out?

    I don't believe that and, again, let us remember these extraordinary circumstances where, if the retailer has been negligent and lost the client's card, you might hope for every lever to be pulled for the situation to be corrected.

  37. #187
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    Quote Originally Posted by Satori View Post
    Totally agree but there are NO circumstances in which a card may be replaced so that is irrelevant to the current case.
    Is post #174 not showing on your computer ?

  38. #188
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    Quote Originally Posted by Satori View Post
    Totally agree but there are NO circumstances in which a card may be replaced so that is irrelevant to the current case.
    Can you not see the image HM posted? There are circumstances a card can be replaced, this incident is no different to the example of ‘the wrong guarantee being given out’ which in fact might be what happened.

    The advice on Rolex website is I’m sure, for the general public, which been pointed out is to deter any old request from Joe Bloggs who just bought a loose Sub off eBay asking for a copy of the card it was originally sold with.
    Cheers..
    Jase

  39. #189
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    Doesn’t the original receipt of purchase carry some weight if warranty work is required ? (Assuming the original purchaser is making the claim)


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  40. #190
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    Quote Originally Posted by ALindsay View Post
    Doesn’t the original receipt of purchase carry some weight if warranty work is required ? (Assuming the original purchaser is making the claim)


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    Access to warranty cover itself has never been in question.

  41. #191
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    Item bought for thousands of pounds, negligent, unprofessional behaviour and we have a "computer says no" mentality. Beggars belief.

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  42. #192
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    Quote Originally Posted by stefmcd View Post
    Item bought for thousands of pounds, negligent, unprofessional behaviour and we have a "computer says no" mentality. Beggars belief.

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    It would be worse if the computer doesn't say "no," but the operator says it does.

  43. #193
    Quote Originally Posted by jwg663 View Post
    Was the watch registered to that customer?

    Yes, it was (it's done electronically at point of sale, I think).

    Is Rolex UK responsible for the drawer/safe/shoebox where an AD stores registered, but held-on-to warranty cards?

    Of course not: that's the responsibility of the retailer.

    The OP's complaint is with the retailer, who has told him that, as per Rolex UK's terms & conditions, he cannot obtain a replacement Warranty Card for the one they have mislaid. (I do wonder if, despite Rolex UK's 'under any circumstances' spiel, a retailer may be allowed to replace one or two before the privilege is withdrawn?)

    They have offered him other goods & services to recompense him for his loss.

    What else do you expect?
    Assuming it's not a rhetorical question, then the answer is the card. I'm just pointing out an inconsistency. Somewhere up in this thread it's been referred to as a piece of plastic. If the warranty is electronic, then it's even more just a piece of plastic as the warranty remains with Rolex (right now) and can easily be verified by them. i.e. replacement is even more trivial. There'd be no need to offer an alternative warranty through the AD either, if it's in Rolex's database. Or maybe it isn't, because if it was "registered electronically" why then is the card such a big deal to replace?

    Those aren't terms and conditions either, it's an FAQ. Why also would the FAQ point the reader to their AD if the argument was circular? Presumably to stop every Tom, Dick and Harry pestering Rolex - as mentioned above. The agreement is between the AD and the customer, not the customer and some FAQ that may or may not have been on Rolex's website when the watch was bought.

    The card Is being kept as part of the sale, precisely because it's seen to have value. In these circumstances it would have been nice had the AD gone through the motions on the customer's behalf and got a letter back from Rolex on the question.

    Anyway, it sounds like the OP got a good deal that works. All's well that ends well.

    --
    Just to edit after reading #174 again, the registering seems to be just a clock as only the serial and date of purchase need providing.
    Last edited by andyb; 18th November 2019 at 21:37. Reason: More information

  44. #194
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haywood_Milton View Post
    Is post #174 not showing on your computer ?
    Yes but I speak English and understand the difference between “exchanged” and “re-issued”

  45. #195
    Journeyman
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    Location
    London, England
    Posts
    250
    OP, glad to hear you got a satisfactory resolution!

  46. #196
    Journeyman
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    Dec 2018
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    Manchester
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    86
    Quote Originally Posted by JasonM View Post
    Can you not see the image HM posted?
    Yes but I speak English and understand the difference between “exchanged” and “re-issued”

  47. #197
    Master
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Location
    Glasgow
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    4,244
    Quote Originally Posted by Haywood_Milton View Post
    It would be worse if the computer doesn't say "no," but the operator says it does.
    I don't think we have operators anymore.

    Sent from my CLT-L09 using Tapatalk

  48. #198
    Craftsman
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Location
    Birmingham
    Posts
    345
    Politics aside, atleast the OP has had an outcome they are satisfied with.

  49. #199
    Master
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    Chester and Merseyside, UK
    Posts
    3,428
    Quote Originally Posted by Satori View Post
    Yes but I speak English and understand the difference between “exchanged” and “re-issued”
    That's interesting, because you yourself used the word "replaced."

    The paradoxical position of the factually incorrect pedant is not a happy one.

    It is clear that Rolex could replace / reissue / exchange a card, so why try to split hairs? The point is that they could produce a card with the same numbers etc to replace the one lost.

    By the way, I have a Masters Degree in Ancient Greek and Latin with Honours First Class. Always willing to improve my English and thus looking forward to your further teaching, albeit not the supererogatory unpleasantness.
    Last edited by Haywood_Milton; 18th November 2019 at 21:56.

  50. #200
    Craftsman
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Location
    Lake District UK
    Posts
    267
    FWIW, my AD sales manager was bemoaning this process when I went to pick up a warranty card this summer. He explicitly said he worried a couple of mistakes could cost them hundreds of pounds if the wrong cards were given out or lost "as Rolex charge us £120 for a new one"

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