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Thread: How would you explain the difference to a lay-person!?

  1. #51
    Master bedlam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by markrlondon View Post
    This is it in a nutshell.
    Supply and demand is just code for the market based manipulation of consumers. A sensible consumer would go elsewhere and the market would immediately collapse. Rolex buyers, however, elect to feed off of each other in a never ending cycle.

  2. #52
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    I think the whole idea of a high value wristwatch is a sort of anachronism. Nowadays you can get a highly reliable, very nicely made and finished, robust wristwatch for £150 or so. A bit more for a mechanical one. A lot less than four figures, anyway. But we honour the tradition of phenomenally expensive things for the glamour, the prestige. I've just googled the cost of buying an Aquanaut, something that is ultimately a steel wristwatch and not different from a Steinhart in any conspicuous respect, and certainly not function. I'm afraid the Emperor is not wearing any clothes.

  3. #53
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    Iíve tried this conversation a few times and half way through I start to feel a bit foolish and then change the subject. There is no sense in it.

    I am conflicted by my ownership of watches as in most areas of life I try to be quite minimalist.

    I can only justify it on the grounds that they are not deprecating... yet ...

  4. #54
    Grand Master markrlondon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bedlam View Post
    Supply and demand is just code for the market based manipulation of consumers.
    No, I cannot agree with that. Consumers are as much participants in the market as are vendors and thus play their part in setting market prices.

    Every market participant, be they customers, resellers, manufacturers, etc. is always doing their best to maximise their benefit (be it to obtain the best price or pay the lowest price). Everyone is trying to get the best deal for themselves in terms of their preferences and choices, whether those be business ones or possession/experience ones.

    Quote Originally Posted by bedlam View Post
    A sensible consumer would go elsewhere and the market would immediately collapse.
    That's your definition of sensible. It's a perfectly good subjective definition but people want what they want for all sorts of reasons. Their choices are their own and so other, equally valid, definitions can and do exist.

    Quote Originally Posted by bedlam View Post
    Rolex buyers, however, elect to feed off of each other in a never ending cycle.
    Cool. Some want to play that game, some do not. I am guessing you don't. ;-)

  5. #55
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    I donít bother trying to explain the difference,itís wasted on most anyway.

  6. #56
    Grand Master markrlondon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Montello View Post
    I am conflicted by my ownership of watches as in most areas of life I try to be quite minimalist.

    I can only justify it on the grounds that they are not deprecating... yet ...
    Surely the point is that you do not need to justify it. To whom, other than yourself, should you or could you possibly be required to justify it?[1]

    And if you really are seeking personal self-justification then it is as simple as this: Do you like them? Do you want them? Of so, then buy then and enjoy them, assuming you can afford them. That is all the justification needed.

    You don't need faux financial justification. It does not matter if the item in question is appreciating or depreciating (although of course an appreciating trinket is probably nicer overall). Just enjoy what you want to enjoy (and can afford) and justify it to no one, other than to your own sense of desire and preference.

    If someone incredulously asks you why you bought an expensive (to them) watch, just answer with the truth: That you wanted it. Who knows, maybe you were influenced by the hype, or maybe not. If you were, then so what? That is still no one's business but your own.

    Own and enjoy what you want within what you can afford. Justify yourself and your decisions to no one.




    Footnote:-
    1: Except perhaps spouses, of course. ;-)

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by markrlondon View Post
    Surely the point is that you do not need to justify it. To whom, other than yourself, should you or could you possibly be required to justify it?[1]

    And if you really are seeking personal self-justification then it is as simple as this: Do you like them? Do you want them? Of so, then buy then and enjoy them, assuming you can afford them. That is all the justification needed.

    You don't need faux financial justification. It does not matter if the item in question is appreciating or depreciating (although of course an appreciating trinket is probably nicer overall). Just enjoy what you want to enjoy (and can afford) and justify it to no one, other than to your own sense of desire and preference.

    If someone incredulously asks you why you bought an expensive (to them) watch, just answer with the truth: That you wanted it. Who knows, maybe you were influenced by the hype, or maybe not. If you were, then so what? That is still no one's business but your own.

    Own and enjoy what you want within what you can afford. Justify yourself and your decisions to no one.




    Footnote:-
    1: Except perhaps spouses, of course. ;-)

    My point was self justification. I could not care less what others think.

    Typically Iím quite cautious financially and donít waste money.

    Having a watch collection stands out as odd in the context of the rest of my lifestyle.

    I wore the same Zenith every day for 18 years, then a few events occurred which has resulted in me ending up with a nice collection. Daft really but Iím not selling up.

  8. #58
    Grand Master markrlondon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Montello View Post
    My point was self justification. I could not care less what others think.

    Typically Iím quite cautious financially and donít waste money.

    Having a watch collection stands out as odd in the context of the rest of my lifestyle.

    I wore the same Zenith every day for 18 years, then a few events occurred which has resulted in me ending up with a nice collection. Daft really but Iím not selling up.
    I see.

    To my mind the only self-justification you need is: I like it. :-)

  9. #59
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    98% of the population wouldnt understand, but than again there are many collectors of many different things which WE wouldnt understand the values associated.

    The value of material objects does make me stop and think sometimes, especially when you read that for £14 - 100 children can be vaccinated against polio, or mosquito nets for nine families cost £18, I'm not preaching here as I too have valuable watches that I'm not selling and passing the money to charity, but this train of thought does make me realise how lucky we are and what some people must think when they know the value of your watch.

  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by murkeywaters View Post
    98% of the population wouldnt understand, but than again there are many collectors of many different things which WE wouldnt understand the values associated.

    The value of material objects does make me stop and think sometimes, especially when you read that for £14 - 100 children can be vaccinated against polio, or mosquito nets for nine families cost £18, I'm not preaching here as I too have valuable watches that I'm not selling and passing the money to charity, but this train of thought does make me realise how lucky we are and what some people must think when they know the value of your watch.
    When I bought my Rolex GMT in 1986 (at a cost of a bit less than £700), a friend asked me how many Ethiopians it was worth. I'd forgotten that. A rather crude way to make a point, but it's certainly a thought isn't it?

  11. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by markrlondon View Post
    I see.

    To my mind the only self-justification you need is: I like it. :-)
    I think that works fine if you have no financial constraints in your lifestyle ...

  12. #62
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    If you wear the Rolex they will let you in if you wear the other they will kick you out


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  13. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by markrlondon View Post
    Surely the point is that you do not need to justify it. To whom, other than yourself, should you or could you possibly be required to justify it?[1]

    And if you really are seeking personal self-justification then it is as simple as this: Do you like them? Do you want them? Of so, then buy then and enjoy them, assuming you can afford them. That is all the justification needed.

    You don't need faux financial justification. It does not matter if the item in question is appreciating or depreciating (although of course an appreciating trinket is probably nicer overall). Just enjoy what you want to enjoy (and can afford) and justify it to no one, other than to your own sense of desire and preference.

    If someone incredulously asks you why you bought an expensive (to them) watch, just answer with the truth: That you wanted it. Who knows, maybe you were influenced by the hype, or maybe not. If you were, then so what? That is still no one's business but your own.

    Own and enjoy what you want within what you can afford. Justify yourself and your decisions to no one.




    Footnote:-
    1: Except perhaps spouses, of course. ;-)

    Very well said sir. I have a feeling you might like this......


    https://www.watchmaster.com/en/journ...nd-his-watches

  14. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by GraniteQuarry View Post
    Just say the silver one pays part of Roger Federer's salary...
    quite true

  15. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by CatalystGuy View Post
    If you wear the Rolex they will let you in if you wear the other they will kick you out


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Lol, this might work.

  16. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr noble View Post
    They used to cost £3k!


    Think I paid less than £7k for the Zenith Daytona back in the day.....


    Has all gone a bit daft now, which was the reason for my post. I think most people are taking it a bit too seriously. For the record, I would never tell anyone what either is worth unless they really wanted to know......and even then I doubt I'd say the full value of the Daytona.

    All very ostentatious these days, which is a shame.
    My sentiments exactly and all very sad indeed.

    I could happily explain the price difference, just can't give it any form of justification. Happily left Rolex to it a few years back. Never liked the mercedes hands anyhow

  17. #67
    Grand Master markrlondon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Montello View Post
    I think that works fine if you have no financial constraints in your lifestyle ...
    Yes, the statement should be read in the context of my earlier comments (e.g. #56): Specifically, as long as you can afford it.

  18. #68
    Grand Master markrlondon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Satori View Post
    Very well said sir. I have a feeling you might like this......


    https://www.watchmaster.com/en/journ...nd-his-watches
    Thank you.

    Yes, it's an interesting story.

  19. #69
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    So much for asceticism, eh.

  20. #70
    Grand Master markrlondon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Passenger View Post
    So much for asceticism, eh.
    I smoked but did not inhale.

    I wore Rolex but did not flash it around.



  21. #71
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    Most people wouldnít spend on watches what we spend on watch services so youíre fighting a losing battle and I wouldnít bother.

    I think with watches you either get it or you donít. For me a watch is art on your wrist, I appreciate the work that goes into the tiny mechanics, I believe every modern man or gentleman should have at least one ďnice watchĒ. I believe that passing on to my son a nice watch which is a part of me and my character is a fathers legacy. Iím quite old fashioned though I suppose.

  22. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by Ian99 View Post
    Most people wouldnít spend on watches what we spend on watch services so youíre fighting a losing battle and I wouldnít bother.

    I think with watches you either get it or you donít. For me a watch is art on your wrist, I appreciate the work that goes into the tiny mechanics, I believe every modern man or gentleman should have at least one ďnice watchĒ. I believe that passing on to my son a nice watch which is a part of me and my character is a fathers legacy. Iím quite old fashioned though I suppose.
    Old fashioned maybe, but lm with you on this. However...

    When l first took a serious interest in watches and joined forums the prices were mad enough - and complained about just as much as they are today but, at £3500ish for a submariner, they look like bargains now.
    They're not so much about telling the time anymore - well, the brand we're talking about anyway.

    Justifying the price isn't a debate l enjoy getting into nowadays - as said in an earlier post, it usually turns into a situation where l end up appearing foolish, or flash, or pretentious in the face of overwhelming opposition - in a group of 20 or so people ld say 99% think that a rolex is ridiculously priced unless you have "more money than sense"... though lm sure if l offered mine for free they'd all have my arm off for it ,if only to sell on!

    A good friend of mine tries to get a rise out of me with the "bubble will burst" angle... l just tell him l can't wait because it means I'll be able to buy myself a load of rolex watches at a fair price!
    I love the watches and l think more people should be able to enjoy them.
    We all know these watches are at daft prices at the moment - even rolex agree - they don't ask nearly as much as the grey dealers do, but they're very careful to maintain the current situation.

    Wish ld bought more rolex ten years ago... this is what happens when you listen to your wife...

  23. #73
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    Isn't it about what a watch, car, shotgun or any other mechanical device means to the owner/operator? I like nice things & have a mind that appreciates quality engineering, if I have what to me is a nice watch on my wrist I will sit & look at it and it makes me happy.

  24. #74
    Grand Master Andyg's Avatar
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    A pointless debate. A bit like asking why a signed Picasso sketch is worth millions, but a photocopy of exactly the same thing is only worth pennies. Both items do exactly the same thing, look exactly the same, etc.

    However, the Rolex is a highly desirable, limited item and is a design classic. It's made by skilled people using the finest materials and then tested to within a inch of its life. It is also supported by a global repair network and has spare parts available for at least 35 years. Finally it's an appricating asset and something you might want your children to inherit. Where as the Panis isn't.

    An alternative explanation could be. If ever you get stuck abroad, arrested and have no money, with only the clothes on your back, then a Rolex might actually get you home. And a Daytona might get you home first class. Think of it like a Bearer Bond, which tells the time.

    Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
    Friedrich Nietzsche


  25. #75
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    An alternative explanation could be. If ever you get stuck abroad, arrested and have no money, with only the clothes on your back, then a Rolex might actually get you home. And a Daytona might get you home first class. Think of it like a Bearer Bond, which tells the time. [/QUOTE]


    The above is fine if you've decided to take your very expensive watch on holiday!,but with recent talks of thefts of high value watches etc whilst on your hols,some may decide to leave them at home and take a GShock or?,which might get you a taxi to the airport depending on the model,unless the taxi driver has a very nice Sub on his wrist then you might be going by bus!.


  26. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by P9CLY View Post
    An alternative explanation could be. If ever you get stuck abroad, arrested and have no money, with only the clothes on your back, then a Rolex might actually get you home. And a Daytona might get you home first class.
    Or a night in a cheap motel.


  27. #77
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    Like the odds of you still wearing that Rolex after losing your wallet, cash, getting arrested in some forrin clime etc c'mon. maybe if you've 'hidden' it about your person

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