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Thread: My diet: time to trigger DEFCON 1

  1. #1
    Master pacifichrono's Avatar
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    My diet: time to trigger DEFCON 1

    This year I've let my diet slip, and despite logging 25-30 miles per week on the road and trail, I've managed to pack on about 25 extra pounds! The problem is I love all the wrong types of foods: from pizza, cheeseburgers and fries to cookies, cake, pie, and chocolate candy. Of course, I detest fruits and most vegetables!

    The last few times I started a diet, I weighed myself after a few days and hadn't lost a pound, confirming that my effort wasn't at a satisfactory level. Disgusted with my failure, I would binge for several days in self-pity.

    On my last five-miler, unable to see my running shoes, I decided I needed to "go nuclear." So, I went on Amazon (everyone's favorite place...plus I'm a shareholder!) and ordered two dozen SlimFast Advanced Energy meal replacement shakes.




    I've had success in the distant past using SlimFast shakes, and once lost over 50 pounds on a clinic-sponsored weight loss program that relied on liquid shake-based meal replacements only for several months. I actually compared the nutrition of this SlimFast product to the proprietary clinic shake and found the SlimFast shakes look superior.

    Anyway, I just hope I can muster the willpower and motivation to get fully on board with this program until it becomes a habit. I'll check in periodically and let you know how I'm doing (or NOT doing ).

  2. #2
    Grand Master Saint-Just's Avatar
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    Good luck Tom.
    But with this amount of running, you shouldnít have to do that or at least not for long; however changing your eating habits, while apparently more difficult, would be better in the long run (sorry, unintended pun).
    I suppose the best solution is a combination of both solutions, your crash diet to shave a set number of pounds before a Ďnormalí permanent one where you use your bbq more, rid yourself of your sugar addiction (because that is what sugar does to you) and find some vegetables that you can like. There are so many youíre bound to find some that you like well enough to incorporate to your eating routine.
    Don't take my silence for agreement. I've just realised you're too stupid to argue with.

  3. #3
    Master TKH's Avatar
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    Similar for me put on a stone in 3 months since sort of retiring, hate carrying extra pounds so made life changes since Monday no more booze and strict calorie intake per day monitored using My Fitness Pal App from Under Armour which i have to say is fantastic, it knows every foodstuff and totals calories per meal and steps taken and exercise log....very motivating i am targeted 1700 calories per day but have hit it hard using an old method of calorie defecit so intake sub 1000 per day so far so good 6lbs lost in 5 days, but that will level out....

    Meals are cereal.....soup....meat and 2 veggies .....

    Shakes might be worth giving a go will take a look thanks ...

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by pacifichrono View Post

    The last few times I started a diet, I weighed myself after a few days and hadn't lost a pound, confirming that my effort wasn't at a satisfactory level. Disgusted with my failure, I would binge for several days in self-pity.
    It didn't go on in a few days so it won't come off in a few either.

    Quote Originally Posted by pacifichrono View Post
    n my last five-miler, unable to see my running shoes, I decided I needed to "go nuclear." So, I went on Amazon (everyone's favorite place...plus I'm a shareholder!) and ordered two dozen SlimFast Advanced Energy meal replacement shakes.

    I've had success in the distant past using SlimFast shakes, and once lost over 50 pounds on a clinic-sponsored weight loss program that relied on liquid shake-based meal replacements only for several months. I actually compared the nutrition of this SlimFast product to the proprietary clinic shake and found the SlimFast shakes look superior.
    Crash diets, which are any diets where you drastically change your eating habits short term are doomed to failure. Sure they may help one lose some weight, but once one reverts to their previous diet, the weight just comes back.

    You can't live long term on meal replacement shakes. So they may work if you work out and use them for a month or two, but then, you're slimmer, you go back to the old diet and what happens? Your body adapts to the old diet too, putting all the weight on again.

    Diet shouldn't be thought of a quick fix transient thing.
    Staying trim long term is all about a long term sustainable diet. Someone who eats right probably won't even need much exercise, but of course exercise also helps and has lots of other health benefits, and so is recommended.

    As the saying goes, abs are made in the kitchen.

    I'd recommend
    1.ditching the slimfast.its a temporary measure that won't produce sustainable weight loss.

    2. Plan to eat well 90% of the time. That still leaves lots of oppertunities for the "bold" stuff (which isn't bold really, only in large quantities over a sustained period).

    Let's assume you have 4 meals a day, breaky, lunch, a snack and dinner.
    Thsts 28 meals a week. You can still have a weekly pizza and/or takeaway and eat healthily 90% of the time. There's even room for a beer or two.

    Just be sure to keep the 90% (25 of those meals) healthy and rounded.

    3.healthy doesn't mean salads. My healthy foods are things like slow cooked beef, sprouts with bacon, veg and some potatoes. My breaky is eggs and porridge with real fruit.
    As long as you keep the carbs and sugar fairly low most food is alright.

    4.buy ingredients, make your own food. Don't rely on ready made foods. You have more control over what goes in your mouth and also how to make it tasty.

    5. Be prepared. Make food in batches. If you have to stsrt cooking each time you need a meal, You'l get lazy and revert to the easy option. We all do, it's human nature to be lazy. But if you have a pot of stew there, just to be heated up, it becomes the easy option.

    6. (last one). It's often the little things that are the big issue. The spoon of sugar in the coffee. 3 times a day that's 3 spoons of sugar, 21 a week. It's the 4 biscuits each night after dinner, it's the snickers to get you through the 3pm slump. Over time they all add up, big time.
    Consistency works both ways, eat consistently well, look well, eat consistently sugary snacks and treats, look like someone who has that diet!


    I say all this as someone who was a fatty and got my body fat down to 8%. I was training hard and super clean for that, but even now at a body fat of about 12% I don't do anything too special outside of making most of my own food. I don't deny myself any foods, I just monitor how much of some foods I eat, e.g if I want a biscuit with my coffee, I have one. I don't have 5, or half a packet. I have one. It's enough. The biscuit is a treat, it's not designed to be used to fill me up.

    Just be consistently good 90% of the time and the body adapts accordingly.
    Last edited by Wilson_smyth; 9th November 2019 at 06:46.

  5. #5
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    First paragraph of the OP resonates with me! (Except the miles you are logging)

    Following with interest. I have had success in the past, I echo comments about myfitnesspal app - it really helped me BIG TIME last time I needed to lose a lot of weight. i don't use it nowadays, except to log my weight each week.

    Good luck with your diet. I tried shakes in the past, but did not find it a long term solution. MFP worked for me, as it did not limit what I could eat, rather it limited how much I ate (in terms of calories at leas). I would often have cheat days - such as Fridays or Saturdays - but would then make sure I made up any excess calories consumed on Monday - Thursday the next week. Seemed to work really well for me.

  6. #6
    Master Chinnock's Avatar
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    If you love meat yet detest fruit and veg the Carnivore Diet (Shawn Baker has just released new book) would be perfect and nutritionally better than processed stuff.

    If and when I need to tone this diet is perfect for me. Combined with the gym it works a treat and you get to enjoy ďrealĒ food.

  7. #7
    Grand Master andrewcregan's Avatar
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    Some excellent top tips from Wilson above

    I simply say, put less in your mouth than you burn, and you will lose weight.

    Remember the classic Yoda saying, when undertaking weight loss....
    ĒDo or do not. There is no try.Ē

  8. #8
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    Following with interest. Iím now classed as overweight for the first time in my life. Iím 47, five-eleven and 13 stone. Officially Iím two pounds over.

    I donít eat much, never have, but am clearly eating the wrong things. I also have one sugar in hot drinks which isnít helping. Iím at the age where muscle mass is decreasing too so some strength exercise might help alongside extra cardio.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by TaketheCannoli View Post
    Following with interest. Iím now classed as overweight for the first time in my life. Iím 47, five-eleven and 13 stone. Officially Iím two pounds over.

    I donít eat much, never have, but am clearly eating the wrong things. I also have one sugar in hot drinks which isnít helping. Iím at the age where muscle mass is decreasing too so some strength exercise might help alongside extra cardio.
    And simply eating more protein.
    Most meals should have roughly a fist sized. Portion of relatively lean meat. At least that again, and preferably more of veg and then carbs, the quantity of which depends on your goals, with less carbs if you're aim is to lose weight.

    And be careful of the dressings and jars of flavor.

  10. #10
    Grand Master Saint-Just's Avatar
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    My diet: time to trigger DEFCON 1

    ^^
    Also remember that muscles are heavier than fat. So if you build them up, youíll gain weight although your fat percentage will decrease.
    Don't take my silence for agreement. I've just realised you're too stupid to argue with.

  11. #11
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    Went from 80KG to 65KG last year in about 12 weeks.

    Skipped breakfast, had 2 simple meals a day and some fruit in between.

    Nothing else, no crisps, bars or snacks at all ever.

    Cycled 5 or 6 days a week on a machine for 30 minutes a day, sometimes more. Go for it so you are drenched in sweat.

    Walking 20 - 30 minutes a day.

    Now I maintain my weight because I seriously don't want to go through it again.

    Hope that helps someone.

  12. #12
    Grand Master
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    I'm having to do similar, put on a stone since having an accident 3 months ago that resulted in clavicle broken in 4 places, 3 broken ribs and a hole in my knee that i could see the kneecap through, not to mention enough scrapes to keep savlon in business for a few weeks.

    The plan is really just cutting out the rubbish, i have been eating as if i was still doing the gym and cycling, so need to reduce and substitute, if you can get through the first week or two it'll usually work, just don't weigh yourself until a month into your new lifestyle, don't use the word diet either as that makes you think of a temporary solution, to keep away from yo yo dieting it's all about lifestyle changes and substitutions.

  13. #13
    Master TKH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Argee1977 View Post
    I'm having to do similar, put on a stone since having an accident 3 months ago that resulted in clavicle broken in 4 places, 3 broken ribs and a hole in my knee that i could see the kneecap through, not to mention enough scrapes to keep savlon in business for a few weeks.

    The plan is really just cutting out the rubbish, i have been eating as if i was still doing the gym and cycling, so need to reduce and substitute, if you can get through the first week or two it'll usually work, just don't weigh yourself until a month into your new lifestyle, don't use the word diet either as that makes you think of a temporary solution, to keep away from yo yo dieting it's all about lifestyle changes and substitutions.
    Agree with Agree

    not a diet for me its a decision to change my lifestyle ....helps that Mrs H is onboard also, giving up drink for me is the critical factor and saying no to Chinese take away (love it but hey)....it helps that I/we love cooking, planning the week ahead so we know what we have for next 5/6 days is a big help...tons of soups in stock for lunch and agree with Wilson evening meal Protein + vegetables, hated them as a kid cant get enough now....oh and tons of water to wash the fat cells away....not missing bread or pastry.

    but cannot stress enough the 'MyFitnessPal' App is really keeping me focused.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by xellos99 View Post

    Skipped breakfast, had 2 simple meals a day and some fruit in between.
    Skipping breakfast isn't the best idea. Body is just waking after 6+ hours of no food. Some food kicks the body into gear and will make you feel better overall.

    There are studies to show that skipping breakfast is actually detrimental long term (and of course contradicting studies too).

    Skip lunch or some snacks but work hard at getting breakfast in. It might only be a banana and glass of milk, but it's much better than nothing at all.

  15. #15
    Master ryanb741's Avatar
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    People will give you advice on here and much of it will be useful. Based on my personal experience following the keto diet properly using the app and not cheating has been life changing and by far the best diet I've ever tried

    Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

  16. #16
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    From my own experience and from talking to others, particularly in my Triathlon club, there doesn’t seem to be a single solution for everyone is people are all different and you need to find what works for you. However there are several principles I would say stand up regardless of the way you go.

    1. Try and reduce the amount of sugar, particularly refined sugar in your diet.
    2. Your diet needs to become something sustainable, not a ‘Diet’ where you lose weight, then yo-yo and put it back on and cycle round this for ever. Find what works and build it in to your life and adjust it as necessary.
    3. If you fall off whichever wagon are on, then recognise this, acknowledge it and then move on. A day, a week of non-compliance, needs to be accepted and then restart and get back on track. 80/20 is a good rule to stick to, sometime life gets in the way and things slip. It’s not the end of the world, refocus and steady the ship.
    4. A healthy diet is something that provides you with all the nutrients and energy that YOU need. Again, it’s about taking the time to find out what that is.
    5. I find that simple targets are what suits me, I aim for 3 healthy(ish) meals a day and if I’m feeling hungry (maybe due to doing more exercise, or a couple of higher intensity sessions), have a healthy snack available, listening to my body as to if I need it or not (mostly I do!). I’ve tried calorie counting and found it a faff in the long run.
    6. Drink more water. Period.
    7. Reduce caffeine and alcohol. See point 3. Having a drink isn’t a crime, but try and reduce what you do drink (if you do...).
    8. Get the family doing the same things. Eat together and eat the same, it’s an inbuilt support team!
    9. Make your own food. Much better and total control over what you eat.
    10. Reduce process foods and slow down on the take-always, however they can be a treat, again, see #3.

    Good luck with your efforts...
    Last edited by andyjay; 9th November 2019 at 12:36.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Wilson_smyth View Post
    Skipping breakfast isn't the best idea. Body is just waking after 6+ hours of no food. Some food kicks the body into gear and will make you feel better overall.

    There are studies to show that skipping breakfast is actually detrimental long term (and of course contradicting studies too).
    This is almost entirely untrue. AFAIK the only studies showing that breakfast is "the most important meal of the day" are those sponsored by Kelloggs.

    The slight grain of truth is that people tend to be either owls or larks. If you feel hungry first thing in the morning, by all means, eat breakfast. If you don't, there is zero harm whatsoever in skipping it. The idea that doing so slows down your metabolism has been thoroughly debunked. In fact, eating breakfast tends to be correlated with weight gain, if anything.

    https://blogs.bmj.com/bmj/2019/01/30...al-of-the-day/

    OTOH there is some evidence emerging that meal timing (not necessarily breakfast) is important, but this seems to be more to do with restricting the eating window (i.e., intermittent fasting) to give the digestive system more rest & recovery time. Contrast that with eating constantly throughout the waking hours, which is only been a viable thing for humans relatively recently and not something we evolved to do. We're not cows.

    One thing that probably is true is that, if you are skipping breakfast but instead, eating late at night, just before going to bed, that is almost certainly a bad thing. But it's not the skipping breakfast part of that which is the bad part. Those two things aren't necessarily connected, except that if you do that you probably won't feel hungry in the morning.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by robt View Post
    This is almost entirely untrue. AFAIK the only studies showing that breakfast is "the most important meal of the day" are those sponsored by Kelloggs.

    The slight grain of truth is that people tend to be either owls or larks. If you feel hungry first thing in the morning, by all means, eat breakfast. If you don't, there is zero harm whatsoever in skipping it. The idea that doing so slows down your metabolism has been thoroughly debunked. In fact, eating breakfast tends to be correlated with weight gain, if anything.

    https://blogs.bmj.com/bmj/2019/01/30...al-of-the-day/

    OTOH there is some evidence emerging that meal timing (not necessarily breakfast) is important, but this seems to be more to do with restricting the eating window (i.e., intermittent fasting) to give the digestive system more rest & recovery time. Contrast that with eating constantly throughout the waking hours, which is only been a viable thing for humans relatively recently and not something we evolved to do. We're not cows.

    One thing that probably is true is that, if you are skipping breakfast but instead, eating late at night, just before going to bed, that is almost certainly a bad thing. But it's not the skipping breakfast part of that which is the bad part. Those two things aren't necessarily connected, except that if you do that you probably won't feel hungry in the morning.
    Not true from my experience. Skipping breakfast makes me sluggish for the day and more likely to snack on junk. That matches with studies I've read. Your milage may vary of course.

  19. #19
    Master murkeywaters's Avatar
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    A bit like yourself I could do with some weight loss, probabley around a stone would be great so I'm looking to change things in my life with diet and fitness, also to bring my rested heart rate down which should be an important factor for most men that are 40+.

    In my 20's I was quite into the gym and looking good, well trying! After a few years of hitting the gym hard most nights I found out a lot about how my body works, if I wanted to put on muscle I would eat a huge amount everyday, lots of proteins for muscle mass and carbs for energy, it worked, when I wanted to slim down I would do short fast runs on a lunch time combined with a low calorie diet and lighter more reps in the gym.

    I done this lots in my 20's and I could fine tune how diet and fitness work for me, now last time I tried to lose a few pounds I was in my 40's, same methods work but a whole lot slower, whether its metabolism or something else, the older you get the longer it seems to hang on your waste!

    In your situation you are half way there with the fitness, I would try to step it up to more miles but back it up with proper good quality food not shakes, Slimfast is mainly made for people who want to lose weight but dont have an active life, what is likely to happen is your body will use some of its reserves backed up with the shakes for a week or so and then you will hit a wall while out training, this is partly due to the body wanting to retain some of its reserves as the shakes alone are not enough while training hard.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Wilson_smyth View Post
    Not true from my experience. Skipping breakfast makes me sluggish for the day and more likely to snack on junk. That matches with studies I've read. Your milage may vary of course.
    Per some of the other posts, paying attention to your own body is important. If you're one of the people for whom breakfast is important, don't skip it. However, you're actually in the minority. The general belief that it is universally important for metabolic reasons is untrue. Like the food pyramid, it's a myth that can be traced back to corporate propaganda, not real science.

    Also, if you feel sluggish during the day and are prone to snacking then there might be other reasons for that, such as not getting enough protein or lipids, generally. It could also be an indicator of stress. I'm not saying that is the case, just that it could be. Everyone is different.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wilson_smyth View Post
    Skipping breakfast isn't the best idea. Body is just waking after 6+ hours of no food. Some food kicks the body into gear and will make you feel better overall.

    There are studies to show that skipping breakfast is actually detrimental long term (and of course contradicting studies too).

    Skip lunch or some snacks but work hard at getting breakfast in. It might only be a banana and glass of milk, but it's much better than nothing at all.
    Had big cup of tea in morning and had first meal early in the day before noon.

    Body seemed to adjust to it and lost 2.5 stone without any diet products at all.

    Then went back to eating breakfast after the weight was lost.

  22. #22
    Best of luck op.

    Like many people I've found reducing carbs to be the most effective way of losing weight and keeping it off.

    I've reduced or replaced high carb foods like pizza, pasta, rice, potatoes and bread and now eat a lot of the following:

    Meals:

    Lunch

    Mackerel in tom sauce on 2 slices of 50/50 toast
    Veg soup and 2 slices of 50/50 bread

    Dinner,:

    Fish, Chicken or lean mince
    Quinoa (half the carbs of rice) or Califlower rice (bland but better when you're wanting to lose weight quickly)
    Salad and balsamic vinegar

    In between meals:

    Mixed Berries with low fat natural yogurt - the lowest carb fruit, I buy them frozen and have two bowls a day 1 hour after meals to keep me full

    Plums - again lower carb than most fruit

    Apples

    Oat cakes and humous (keeps you feeling full)

    Carrot sticks and humous

    I was only a little overweight before starting this but blood tests were showing signs of fatty liver. At first I was really strict and lost a stone and half in 10 weeks. I've managed to keep most of that off still since. My liver enzyme and cholesterol levels have come down to normal and I hardly ever get colds now.

    What I really need to work on is exercise but that's what I find most challenging
    Last edited by watchcollector1; 9th November 2019 at 14:20.

  23. #23
    Master murkeywaters's Avatar
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    Regarding breakfast, my body loses weight if I have fruit in the mornings, it sounds strange but about an hour after eating you can feel your metabolism has kicked in as the fruit has got it going but has little substance, come lunch time I'm really hungry whereas if I skip breakfast I'm not so hungry but more lethargic.

    Also as mentioned water is key to flush the system, apparently you lose fat though urine?

  24. #24
    For anyone who is looking to shift a few lbs and/or do a body recomp - get yourself a copy of Tim Ferris "4 hour body" and follow his slow carb diet - it works, it's sustainable and you have to have one day off a week to eat basically whatever you want for as much as you want! Winning all round!

  25. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by robt View Post
    This is almost entirely untrue. AFAIK the only studies showing that breakfast is "the most important meal of the day" are those sponsored by Kelloggs.

    One thing that probably is true is that, if you are skipping breakfast but instead, eating late at night, just before going to bed, that is almost certainly a bad thing. But it's not the skipping breakfast part of that which is the bad part. Those two things aren't necessarily connected, except that if you do that you probably won't feel hungry in the morning.

    Intermittent fasting like 8-16 or having 1 or 2 500kcal days per week have been shown to improve hormone response and gut health, so there is plenty of evidence to suggest that some for of IF is good for the human body.

    Equally, there are those like Ferris who reason that eating 30g of protein within 30 minutes of waking are important for fatloss - based on his own studies of people following his slow carb diet - those who ate 30g of protein first thing lost more than those who didn't, albeit both still shifted body fat.

    Speaking for myself, I run IF by doing 8-16 (eating only between 12 and 8pm) and quite happily and comfortably get through the morning with no issues on nothing other than coffee or green tea - never had an issue with ack of energy (including exercising or playing sport). I'm now following Ferris's slow carb as it's time to do a bit of a body recomp, which means I'm having 30g of protein first thing and weirdly I'm more hungry by lunchtime than when I was doing IF - so it's vital to get to learn your own body and your own needs.

  26. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Ashtennisguru View Post
    Equally, there are those like Ferris who reason that eating 30g of protein within 30 minutes of waking are important for fatloss - based on his own studies of people following his slow carb diet - those who ate 30g of protein first thing lost more than those who didn't, albeit both still shifted body fat.
    Someone else recommended that book, but I put it off as it seemed to be full of dubious magic bullets like grapefruit, cinnamon, etc. (which typically do have an well-established effect, but the size is tiny). However, I've decided to give it another chance and am reading through it now. I haven't got to that part yet. Was it a randomised controlled trial, or purely observational?

  27. #27
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    Based on one of the studies, the HED that resulted in prevention of skin transplant rejection in rodents was about 70mg/kg daily. That corresponds to a daily oral dose of about 5g-7g PUFA for most people, which is an easily achievable amount in the Western world, and in fact most people eating a commercial food diet easily eat at least twice that amount on a daily basis. Considering the rapidly accumulating evidence that immune suppression is behind many chronic diseases and especially cancer, it is little surprise that we are seeing a cancer epidemic affecting all age groups almost equally.

    http://haidut.me/?p=688

    It's hard to find precise ingredients, but those Slimfast appear to have 7.5g of polyunsaturated fat EACH, never mind per day. They might result in weight loss, but I suspect they will also tank the metabolism and immune system of anyone taking them.

    Throw in carrageenan, plant (i.e. not animal) forms of vitamins, and a chemical soup of other ingredients, and for me at least I would be worried about the long-term consequences of eating those.

  28. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by TaketheCannoli View Post
    Following with interest. Iím now classed as overweight for the first time in my life. Iím 47, five-eleven and 13 stone. Officially Iím two pounds over.

    I donít eat much, never have, but am clearly eating the wrong things. I also have one sugar in hot drinks which isnít helping. Iím at the age where muscle mass is decreasing too so some strength exercise might help alongside extra cardio.
    If that's overweight, I must be a Fat Bs, I'm a little over 6 foot, and 17 stone.

    I generally eat wherever I like and my weight fluctuates between 16 to 17 (maybe 17.5). If I really wanted it I'd have well defined abs within 8-12 weeks.

    Following a diet is fine, but I think most people should try monitoring their food intake (measuring with one of the many apps) and taking a look at their macros. Also, something as simple as walking an extra 100 cals worth of steps per day is worth close to approx. a pound in weight per month.

    I've exercised 2 or 3 times in the last 6 months, after an injury, and just haven't been in the mood to go back yet. I still eat a generally (compared to the average person) higher protein diet though, and have maintained most of my muscle mass.

    I'm trying to decide whether to actually do some exercise this year, or wait until 2020. The winter weather isn't helping much with my motivation.
    It's just a matter of time...

  29. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by robt View Post
    Someone else recommended that book, but I put it off as it seemed to be full of dubious magic bullets like grapefruit, cinnamon, etc. (which typically do have an well-established effect, but the size is tiny). However, I've decided to give it another chance and am reading through it now. I haven't got to that part yet. Was it a randomised controlled trial, or purely observational?
    All of the "magic bullets" as you call them can be thought of as maginal gains - each might only add 1% to the overall effect, but if you utilise many of them that overall effect is magnified. Equally the principles work if applied without some of those little extras, as Tim himself says, they are just the icing on the cake. I'm running a modified version of slow carb with some starchy carbs in some of my evening meals, but definitely less than I would have had previously and only because my job is very active, so I find I need some and even after a short time I'm seeing a difference. What is quite funny is that today is my "re-feed" day - I had a croissant and a pain au chocolate for breakfast and felt really crappy afterwards, not psychologically, but physically!

    As for the trial regarding the 30g of protein - it wasn't a clinical trial, but based on annecdotal evidence from over a thousand people (the book talks about the study in one of the chapters I think).

  30. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Ashtennisguru View Post
    I had a croissant and a pain au chocolate for breakfast and felt really crappy afterwards, not psychologically, but physically!
    I've been doing low-carb and intermittent fasting since last year, with the occasional break. I'm on a break at the moment, eating all the carbs I can't normally have, with the intention of doing more weight training than usual. But as I've noticed always seems to happen, the carbs tend to make me feel lethargic and/or nauseated. I always feel a lot better when I cut them back out again (barring the possible couple of days of keto flu if I've knocked myself out of keto-adaptation).

    I find myself moving in the general direction of something more like the slow-carb approach, because I find it is the IF that is most effective, not the carb restriction per se. However, I find the carb restriction necessary to be able to fast without feeling terrible and climbing the walls with insatiable hunger.

  31. #31
    Master pacifichrono's Avatar
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    First, I want to thank all my fellow members for your ideas, wisdom, and encouragement. This is one of the primary reasons I remain a member of TZ-UK - - for the camaraderie.

    A few additional points I would like to share about my situation:

    • I'm 72, and have been a life-long runner since my stint in the U.S. Marines in the sixties.
    • I mostly walk now, since I had a total right hip replacement a few years ago that didn't properly heal.
    • I've shrunk an inch, so am now 5'11" and as of yesterday, November 8, I weighed 202 pounds (14 stone, 6 pounds, or 91.8kg).
    • My goal is to get back in the 160s, and maintain there (I did reach 168 in June of last year).
    • My eating and diet needs are complicated by an Obsessive/Compulsive eating disorder, for which a take a couple drugs that only partially mitigate the urges.
    • I am well-read on nutrition and weight control, but my OCD sabotages my plans (kind of like the old saying, "Man makes plans...God laughs!").
    • While I know a SlimFast diet is not 'nirvana,' it is only my current attempt to blast out of an eating and weight gain cycle that seems to trap me at the moment.

    So again, thanks for all your input and support. Isn't it great to have an international cast of friends like I have?

  32. #32
    Master yumma's Avatar
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    Lots of good advice on here already. But there is one simple fact, to lose weight you need to be in a caloric deficit. Whether that be by burning more than you consume or eating less.

    My advice is sensible eating. Calculate your typical calorific requirement based on height, weight, age, sex, activity level (online calculators), as someone else said eat 90% giving a 10% deficit daily. Track your calories easily by using the free App MyFitnessPal. Eat a balanced diet of good food but sticking to a sensible split of Macros; probably 40% Carbs, 30% Protein & 30% Fat (this are percentages of calories, so you will not be eating lots of fats).

    I did exactly this, nothing faddy and in my mid forties got down to under 12% body fat and a reasonable six pack in less than 5 months.

    Best of luck.

    Remember; it is all about calorie deficit. For more on that just YouTube James Smith.

  33. #33
    Master pacifichrono's Avatar
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    DAY ONE:

    -3.2 pounds

    If I can stick to it for a while, I'll post weekly updates.

  34. #34
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    My diet: time to trigger DEFCON 1

    Listen to YOUR body as well as others / experts. I eat more through the day if i eat breakfast, weird really. 48 and hover between a fairly constant 10st 7-11lb

    my natural inclination is to feel peckish around 12-2 without breakfast.

    so most days I really only have two meals a day. I dont feel hungry, cheated or miserable itís just listening to my body. If Iím hungry i eat, sensibly but i eat.

    No one size fits all.
    Last edited by T1ckT0ck; 10th November 2019 at 01:26.

  35. #35
    Grand Master hogthrob's Avatar
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    You can't outrun your fork. Look at how much exercise you need to burn off a cheeseburger ... the only practical way is to not eat the cheeseburger. Sorry.


    Anyway, this seems to work; basically 200 calories for breakfast (oats), 200 calories for lunch (eggs + salad), 400 calories for evening meal (meat + salad or veg). No complex carbs (e.g. bread/potatoes/rice/pasta/sugar/alcohol). Don't eat after 6pm, or before 8am. Do it for 2 weeks. Then you can add some calories. Not terribly hard to follow, but evening meals can be a bit boring. Drinking water/herbal tea when feeling hungry.

    Here's the source: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Fast-800-co.../dp/1780723628

  36. #36
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    The 'Abs Diet Book' by David Zincenko offers some well thought out and effective advice on diet/exercise whether you want a 6 pack or just to lose a few pounds while learning about healthy eating.
    Last edited by Passenger; 10th November 2019 at 10:03.

  37. #37
    Craftsman
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    Donít over complicate things. Eat less than you burn and go easy on the carbs. MyFitnessPal is your friend


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  38. #38
    Craftsman
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    I was once 82kg, now 67kg, so lost 33ib due to pre-diabetes (BMI 22.4). Took first 10 off using Mosley's 8-week blood sugar diet. Kept it there for 2 years by maintaining the approach. Decided to lose another 5kg and took it off in about 2 months using the approach in https://www.amazon.com/Personalized-.../dp/1478918802. Highly recommend Personalised Diet. Get to know what's really good for your body. Their focus is on a healthy microbiome using blood sugars as a proxy. It's a diet book that doesn't focus on diets but the science behind diets. If you're eating the food that's good for you you don't have to worry as much about eating too much. This is the most efficient and effective way to lose weight based on my experience. Pain in the whatsit initially as you have to monitor blood sugars to figure out what's good for you, but watch the weight go without having to starve yourself as you figure it out. If you live in US you can send a poop sample to https://www.daytwo.com/en/ and shortcut taking blood sugars. Good luck!

  39. #39
    Grand Master
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    Surely calorie deficit on a daily basis is virtually impossible unless you barely eat anything at all?

    Quote Originally Posted by watchstudent View Post
    Donít over complicate things. Eat less than you burn and go easy on the carbs. MyFitnessPal is your friend


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  40. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by TaketheCannoli View Post
    Surely calorie deficit on a daily basis is virtually impossible unless you barely eat anything at all?
    Not really, for a 6ft, 80kg bloke the BMR (basal metabolic rate) is probably 1600-1800 kcal per day - that is the total calories you would burn just stiing down and existing. Add on some movement through the day and you're probably at 2200 - 2400 kcal.

    So an 1800 - 2000 kcal per day intake would put you on track for a deficit of around 500kcal per day or 3500kcal per week - which approximates to 1lb of fat.

    All rough calculations and it's not quite as clean cut as that in terms of fat storage hormones, insulin, not all calories being quite equal etc etc, but essentially if you've got a bit of timber to lose then it's a pretty damn good place to start.

  41. #41
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    Thanks for the explanation, I forgot we burn calories just living lol

    Quote Originally Posted by Ashtennisguru View Post
    Not really, for a 6ft, 80kg bloke the BMR (basal metabolic rate) is probably 1600-1800 kcal per day - that is the total calories you would burn just stiing down and existing. Add on some movement through the day and you're probably at 2200 - 2400 kcal.

    So an 1800 - 2000 kcal per day intake would put you on track for a deficit of around 500kcal per day or 3500kcal per week - which approximates to 1lb of fat.

    All rough calculations and it's not quite as clean cut as that in terms of fat storage hormones, insulin, not all calories being quite equal etc etc, but essentially if you've got a bit of timber to lose then it's a pretty damn good place to start.

  42. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by hogthrob View Post
    You can't outrun your fork. Look at how much exercise you need to burn off a cheeseburger ... the only practical way is to not eat the cheeseburger. Sorry.


    Anyway, this seems to work; basically 200 calories for breakfast (oats), 200 calories for lunch (eggs + salad), 400 calories for evening meal (meat + salad or veg). No complex carbs (e.g. bread/potatoes/rice/pasta/sugar/alcohol). Don't eat after 6pm, or before 8am. Do it for 2 weeks. Then you can add some calories. Not terribly hard to follow, but evening meals can be a bit boring. Drinking water/herbal tea when feeling hungry.

    Here's the source: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Fast-800-co.../dp/1780723628
    But that is nonsense. Of course you can out run your fork. If I train and exercise I find it difficult to eat enough calories in a day. Eat the cheese burger, and enjoy the cheese burger - just don't have two, and get some exercise.

    It's much better to eat balanced calories for the effort you expend on given days, rather than less arbitrarily on two days per week.
    It's just a matter of time...

  43. #43
    Master Maysie's Avatar
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    I heard someone talking about weight loss and calories recently and they said something really obvious: 'it is OK to be hungry' which I thought was an interesting point.

    We seem to have forgotten that being hungry for a few hours or more is OK. We wont die, we wont starve, we wont flake out.
    That is certainly something that I am guilty of, if I am hungry, I eat. End of story. I am now overweight.

    When I used to run regularly at lunchtimes, I would always run before eating any lunch, but following the run I was no longer hungry, so could just drink some water and eat a small snack (banana or similar) and then wait until the evening to eat my meal. I lost loads of weight.

    Good luck OP. I agree with what others have said already - your diet needs to change!

  44. #44
    Master
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    Im at a healthy weight and exercise enough but i have noticed as i approach 40 its much easier to put on a few pounds after a weekend of ill discipline.

    after watching the game changers docs on netflix i am trying to be vegan 70-80% of the time, for general health benefits as well as weight. I also find oat milk negates the need for me to add sugar to my coffee!

  45. #45

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    Quote Originally Posted by cyrusir View Post
    Im at a healthy weight and exercise enough but i have noticed as i approach 40 its much easier to put on a few pounds after a weekend of ill discipline.

    after watching the game changers docs on netflix i am trying to be vegan 70-80% of the time, for general health benefits as well as weight. I also find oat milk negates the need for me to add sugar to my coffee!
    I found some of the items of the documentary somewhat strange to say the least, but I do believe most people would benefit from eating more vegetables.

    You should note that James Cameron has 10's of millions of dollars invested into plant based food (company/ies).

    Also, it is not that practical for the average heavy weight trainer, or some endurance heavier endurance athletes to be able to reach their protein goals easily on a vegetarian, never mind a vegan diet. Virtually every vegetable source of protein has more carbohydrate calories than protein for example, whereas some animal/fish sources can be almost entirely protein - or whey isolate protein powder can be as high as 99% pure protein. That is without looking at the amino acid profiles and ensuring that you are getting the right ratio of amino acids in your diet.

    Without resorting to highly questionable/processed (vegetable) protein products, I would find it exceptionally difficult to have an intake of approx 225g-250g of protein a day without going well above my desired calorie limits.

    I don't even know what Oat milk is supposed to be - Oats does not naturally make a milk - most appear to have, high calories, sugar, lots of phosphates and added vitamins etc. if that isn't an example of a new processed food then I really don't know what is.

    I think most of us should just be more mindful about our food choices - but the most important thing to eat what we actually need, and I couldn't care whether someone achieves that by vegetables or meat, or a combination of the two.
    It's just a matter of time...

  46. #46
    Craftsman
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    Yeah the massive issue with veganism is that it just isnít healthy compared to a good diet that contains, complete protein. The Mediterranean diet probably being the best evidence based one to follow, yes lots of veg but also high quality protein from beef, game, fish etc

    A massive oversimplification but quite a good one is that a healthy diet will get you the nutrients you need with the least insulin spikes possible. Being vegan is likely to cause higher insulin levels due to the higher carb content. IMO the answer is we need to stop cutting down rainforests to rear meat and do it like traditional British farmers do, on open pasture that would be grass anyway. We should eat less meat but pay more for it.


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  47. #47
    Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maysie View Post
    I heard someone talking about weight loss and calories recently and they said something really obvious: 'it is OK to be hungry' which I thought was an interesting point.
    Agreed. If I want to lose weight, then I know it is happening when I am hungry before breakfast, before lunch and definitely before tea.

    Pete

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ashtennisguru View Post
    For anyone who is looking to shift a few lbs and/or do a body recomp - get yourself a copy of Tim Ferris "4 hour body" and follow his slow carb diet - it works, it's sustainable and you have to have one day off a week to eat basically whatever you want for as much as you want! Winning all round!
    Fantastic read, Iíve managed to customise what works for me cherry picking from that book if I notice the scales going in the wrong direction too much I scale back on my fat days which is normally full weekend of cheating starting Friday night and finishing around 18:00 on Sunday, following slow carb the rest of the week keeps me around the same weight. After being on holiday etc I stick to it more religiously for a few weeks to get back to normal.

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omegamanic View Post
    I found some of the items of the documentary somewhat strange to say the least, but I do believe most people would benefit from eating more vegetables.

    You should note that James Cameron has 10's of millions of dollars invested into plant based food (company/ies).

    Also, it is not that practical for the average heavy weight trainer, or some endurance heavier endurance athletes to be able to reach their protein goals easily on a vegetarian, never mind a vegan diet. Virtually every vegetable source of protein has more carbohydrate calories than protein for example, whereas some animal/fish sources can be almost entirely protein - or whey isolate protein powder can be as high as 99% pure protein. That is without looking at the amino acid profiles and ensuring that you are getting the right ratio of amino acids in your diet.

    Without resorting to highly questionable/processed (vegetable) protein products, I would find it exceptionally difficult to have an intake of approx 225g-250g of protein a day without going well above my desired calorie limits.

    I don't even know what Oat milk is supposed to be - Oats does not naturally make a milk - most appear to have, high calories, sugar, lots of phosphates and added vitamins etc. if that isn't an example of a new processed food then I really don't know what is.

    I think most of us should just be more mindful about our food choices - but the most important thing to eat what we actually need, and I couldn't care whether someone achieves that by vegetables or meat, or a combination of the two.
    there are body builders that are plant based so they appear to do ok on protein ? Also any of the milk substitutes have less calories and sugars that cows milk so I wouldnt worry about that

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by watchstudent View Post
    Yeah the massive issue with veganism is that it just isnít healthy compared to a good diet that contains, complete protein. The Mediterranean diet probably being the best evidence based one to follow, yes lots of veg but also high quality protein from beef, game, fish etc

    A massive oversimplification but quite a good one is that a healthy diet will get you the nutrients you need with the least insulin spikes possible. Being vegan is likely to cause higher insulin levels due to the higher carb content. IMO the answer is we need to stop cutting down rainforests to rear meat and do it like traditional British farmers do, on open pasture that would be grass anyway. We should eat less meat but pay more for it.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Iím not going vegan I like meat too much but I am cutting down and I think moving to a more plant based diet is a good thing .

    also if a vegan diet isnít healthy how do you explain athletes like Djokovic or serena Williams or messi ?

    Again Iím no expert but if meat is the only way for us to get our protein but animals get it from grass how does that work ?

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