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Thread: Seiko Alignment Issues

  1. #1

    Seiko Alignment Issues

    As I am in the process of purchasing a Seiko SPB077J1 and having looked at numerous watches nearly all seem to suffer from issues with alignment. I was surprise to find that even in the Seiko boutique watches suffered from the same issue. Is this normal for Seiko?

    I have managed to source the watch below which is to my untrained eye looks fairly spot on.

    Last edited by boring_sandwich; 5th November 2019 at 17:59.

  2. #2
    Master Onelasttime's Avatar
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    My SPB077J1 is fine as far as I can tell

    Last edited by Onelasttime; 5th November 2019 at 18:02.

  3. #3
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    To some significant degree, yes. Even on the mid-range models of the type you are looking at. I had a SBDC053 which had the issue. My solution was to buy a ceramic insert from Yobokies and swapped them out myself. Such a shame that Seiko can't get this right even on relatively expensive item.

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  4. #4
    I have found the biggest issue being the 6 and 12 o'clock marker against the outer minute markers.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by boring_sandwich View Post
    I have managed to source the watch below which is to my untrained eye looks fairly spot on.

    The chapter ring looks misaligned at 12 and 6 and the date isnít aligned in the centre of the window.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Onelasttime View Post
    My SPB077J1 is fine as far as I can tell

    This one does look spot on.

  6. #6
    I had chapter ring alignment issues on some MM300ís I had in the past and those are not cheap. The last one I had was perfect. Itís a shame they donít do a little to get this right.


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  7. #7
    Master
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    Yes OP, the chaptor ring is a knats off, but not by much. It depends what your watch OCD is like .

  8. #8
    Thanks for pointing it out, I am still struggling to see it if honest. Is it something Seiko would fix under warranty?

    Here is another image,

    Last edited by boring_sandwich; 5th November 2019 at 19:07.

  9. #9
    Master Glen Goyne's Avatar
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    I sent a SKX009 to Seiko the Netherlands to be aligned. It was fixed but had some caseback marks.


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  10. #10
    I sent a watch to Seiko UK with worse alignment and they sent it back untouched as they said it was within their tolerance.

    No harm asking though.

  11. #11
    Master
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    It's definitely Seiko's Achilles heel. Never had issues w similarly priced Citizen.

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  12. #12
    Am I missing something as the alignment seems ok?


  13. #13
    Itís off about half mm to one mm at 6 and 12. Your red line through 6 shows this. It would bother me. If you canít see it then donít let it worry you.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by vortgern View Post
    Itís off about half mm to one mm at 6 and 12. Your red line through 6 shows this. It would bother me. If you canít see it then donít let it worry you.
    I will have a closer look in person at it, at 25% off retail from a UK Seiko AD it seems like a good buy.
    Last edited by boring_sandwich; 5th November 2019 at 22:13.

  15. #15
    Grand Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by boring_sandwich View Post
    Am I missing something as the alignment seems ok?

    Looks fine to me. The only way to assess these things accurately us to lay the watch perfectly flat, then view it with one eye directly over the watch.

  16. #16
    Journeyman
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    I tried one of these on at Jura once, really great watch, but the alignment was miles out, much worse than the example you found. Iíd say go for it if youíre happy with the tolerance outlined by Vortgern


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  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by benwisback View Post
    I tried one of these on at Jura once, really great watch, but the alignment was miles out, much worse than the example you found. Iíd say go for it if youíre happy with the tolerance outlined by Vortgern


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    I am going to view it so will make a decision once seen in person.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by boring_sandwich View Post
    I will have a closer look in person at it, at 25% off retail from a UK Seiko AD it seems like a good buy.
    Imagine the discount if that chapter ring was >1mm out

  19. #19
    Grand Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by vortgern View Post
    Itís off about half mm to one mm at 6 and 12. Your red line through 6 shows this. It would bother me. If you canít see it then donít let it worry you.
    ??????.....Specsavers?

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by boring_sandwich View Post
    Am I missing something as the alignment seems ok?

    Impossible to tell alignment this way using a hand held photo. Need to have the watch flat and camera directly over it otherwise perspective will skew whats there so either you see misalignment, or misalignment is hidden.

  21. #21
    Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wilson_smyth View Post
    Impossible to tell alignment this way using a hand held photo. Need to have the watch flat and camera directly over it otherwise perspective will skew whats there so either you see misalignment, or misalignment is hidden.
    A fair point.

    OP, I would say that I experienced a similar alignment issue on a subC that I purchased a few years ago (the weekend after the EU ref result - not that I was celebrating it!!). The bezel markers were slightly off from the respective dial markers. I didn't think that this was acceptable on a nearly £6k watch so returned if for a full refund as was the policy at the AD at the time. I might have been more forgiving if the rrp of the watch was in the £100s.

  22. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Wilson_smyth View Post
    Impossible to tell alignment this way using a hand held photo. Need to have the watch flat and camera directly over it otherwise perspective will skew whats there so either you see misalignment, or misalignment is hidden.
    Agreed it does seem to be the case looking at images of watches online.
    Last edited by boring_sandwich; 6th November 2019 at 09:12.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Onelasttime View Post
    My SPB077J1 is fine as far as I can tell


    That does look like a good example of spot on alignment - and a great picture to capture the second hand at that precise point..

    Sadly these alignment issues are quite common on the Seiko divers, some are really bad and some are barely noticeable..

  24. #24
    Grand Master Seamaster73's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by beechcustom View Post
    A fair point. OP, I would say that I experienced a similar alignment issue on a subC that I purchased a few years ago (the weekend after the EU ref result - not that I was celebrating it!!). The bezel markers were slightly off from the respective dial markers. I didn't think that this was acceptable on a nearly £6k watch so returned if for a full refund as was the policy at the AD at the time. I might have been more forgiving if the rrp of the watch was in the £100s.
    This surprises me, on the basis of how anal the guys at St Jamesís Square were about this when I got a bezel replaced while-I-waited.

  25. #25
    Master
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    Please be aware Seiko regard a misaligned bezel as within spec.they won’t do anything under warranty.

  26. #26
    Journeyman Curtis's Avatar
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    Lifes too short to over analyse these things

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  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Curtis View Post
    Lifes too short to over analyse these things

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    Itís a watch forum itís what we do

  28. #28
    I had a look at the below watch yesterday and cannot decide if the chapter ring is slightly misaligned against the marker or if itís just the way the chapter ring is angled into the dial.

    Am I expecting to much from a watch at this price point?

    how do i upload a picture

    Last edited by boring_sandwich; 10th November 2019 at 08:07.

  29. #29
    To my eyes the chapter ring is off by about half a mm to the left of the 12.

    Your red line does not run through the centre of the double index at 12.

    I wouldnít buy this one, as it would bother me.

    A lot of others wouldnít notice or wouldnít care.

    If you canít see it or donít want to see it then Iím not sure why you are asking strangers if it bothers them.

    The fact you keep asking suggests it does bother you. If so then perhaps Seikos in this price range arenít for you. Many if not most will have some issue or other.

    Having said that much more expensive watches can have defects or imperfections too.

    You just need to decide what level of imperfection you personally are prepared to live with.

  30. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by vortgern View Post
    To my eyes the chapter ring is off by about half a mm to the left of the 12.

    Your red line does not run through the centre of the double index at 12.

    I wouldnít buy this one, as it would bother me.

    A lot of others wouldnít notice or wouldnít care.

    If you canít see it or donít want to see it then Iím not sure why you are asking strangers if it bothers them.

    The fact you keep asking suggests it does bother you. If so then perhaps Seikos in this price range arenít for you. Many if not most will have some issue or other.

    Having said that much more expensive watches can have defects or imperfections too.

    You just need to decide what level of imperfection you personally are prepared to live with.
    Thank you for the reply. To my eye it does seem to be slightly off as you say.

    I have now viewed at least 20 + watches in various AD including the Seiko boutique and all seem to be like this at the 12 marker.

    I am just wondering if the angle of the chapter ring where it meets the dial gives this impression rather than them all actually being slightly misaligned hence the question.

    What I noticed yesterday that if viewed from a slightly different angle other than straight on then the issue is gone.
    Last edited by boring_sandwich; 10th November 2019 at 08:24.

  31. #31
    Master
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    Kieran, seriously if you like the watch get it bought especially if you can get a decent discount.
    You could take a photo of the same watch from a slightly different angle and something could look out the other way by a similar half a gnats chuff.
    They're great watches but if you go looking for things like that you'll find them, take photos and convince yourself something is out one way or the other depending on the perspective.

  32. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Cat7 View Post
    Kieran, seriously if you like the watch get it bought especially if you can get a decent discount.
    You could take a photo of the same watch from a slightly different angle and something could look out the other way by a similar half a gnats chuff.
    They're great watches but if you go looking for things like that you'll find them, take photos and convince yourself something is out one way or the other depending on the perspective.
    I am going to go back and have another look today as the discount as you know is what I consider decent at 30% off retail.
    Last edited by boring_sandwich; 10th November 2019 at 08:33.

  33. #33
    Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by boring_sandwich View Post
    I am going to go back and have another look today as the discount as you know is what I consider decent at 30% off retail.
    "What I noticed yesterday that if viewed from a slightly different angle other than straight on then the issue is gone."

    This for me. The watch you shows looks perfectly acceptable. I've seen photos where the alignment is way out and very obvious, this is not the same and for me it's all abut perspective. Buy it and enjoy it.

  34. #34
    Master
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    Go Citizen to avoid alignment issues. They clearly have higher assembly QC. That's not stopped me buying about 20 Seikos over the years, lol.

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  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by boring_sandwich View Post
    I'm struggling to see anything wrong here even with your helpful red line. I'd hate to be your decorator or kitchen fitter lolz.

  36. #36
    Master
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    Def a fraction out but acceptable to me.

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  37. #37
    Master Onelasttime's Avatar
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    I think you should stop letting other people dictate what's acceptable or not. Personally, I really can't see any problem with any of the watches pictured above. You're seeing things that aren't there in any meaningful sense.

    Perhaps if you really squint at it or maybe examine it under a loupe all day then yes, it will drive you mad, but this would be the behaviour of someone who is mad anyway.

    Otherwise, you can put the watch on, wear it and not worry about a gnat's cock worth of misalignment.

    Just my opinion anyway

  38. #38
    Grand Master Seamaster73's Avatar
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    Isn’t it at about this stage in every alignment thread that someone pops up to to witter on about that daft Warren Beatty picture?

  39. #39
    Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Onelasttime View Post
    I think you should stop letting other people dictate what's acceptable or not. Personally, I really can't see any problem with any of the watches pictured above. You're seeing things that aren't there in any meaningful sense.

    Perhaps if you really squint at it or maybe examine it under a loupe all day then yes, it will drive you mad, but this would be the behaviour of someone who is mad anyway.

    Otherwise, you can put the watch on, wear it and not worry about a gnat's cock worth of misalignment.

    Just my opinion anyway
    Sums it up perfectly!!

  40. #40
    30% off retail? Cannot see it being a problem. Anyway, itís rare that the watch will be perfectly aligned when you check the time, so this minute imperfection really isnít worth getting hung up about. At full price, maybe.


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  41. #41
    Craftsman canuck's Avatar
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    My local Seiko ad is the Halifax watch co (Canada) and their watches are always 25% off RRP. Iím beginning to think this is decent!?

  42. #42
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    I've seen Seikos with very misaligned chapter rings and bezels. Personally, there's nothing in the pictures above which would trouble me.

    It is a bit annoying that Seiko can't up their game in this regard though.

  43. #43
    Craftsman
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    I had an SKX and it was only when I put it up for sale that it was pointed out to me that the chapter ring was slightly off. But it's a Seiko, they all do that sir and the guy who spotted it ended up buying it anyway.

    An SPB077 is next on my list and I'll be taking a loupe with me to hopefully find one with a misaligned chapter ring and negotiate a discount. I initially thought the problem was due to the printing being out of whack as it's usually only at one or two indices where it's apparent, but I've since discovered on SKX's at least that the outer diameter of the chapter ring is slightly too small allowing for up/down and side to side movement inside the case. You need to remove the crystal and align the ring with the movement in place and a dab of glue on the back of the ring to hold it there. It's a bit of a pita but fixable and I'd rather do that than pay RRP or small discount on a perfect example.

  44. #44
    Craftsman
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    Quote Originally Posted by bry nylon View Post
    That does look like a good example of spot on alignment - and a great picture to capture the second hand at that precise point..



    Sadly these alignment issues are quite common on the Seiko divers, some are really bad and some are barely noticeable..
    as mentioned a bunch of times though, with a handheld photo, its impossible to tell.
    that image for example shows slightly more of the right side of the watch than the left, so watch is not dead center to the camera and is not bang on level. take the worst alignment and you will be able to find an angle that makes it invisible.
    If it takes this much analysis, then really, why worry?
    Or, if its going to keep you awake at night, then maybe a seiko, with well know alignment issues just isnt for you.

  45. #45
    Just to update the post I have finally located a watch with what looks like a perfectly aligned chapter ring, bezel and dial or certainly the best I can find anywhere.

    It has the added bonus that it also has a very nice coloured dial.

    Last edited by boring_sandwich; 11th November 2019 at 17:23.

  46. #46
    Master Onelasttime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by boring_sandwich View Post
    Just to update the post I have finally located a watch with what looks like a perfectly aligned chapter ring, bezel and dial or certainly the best I can find anywhere.

    It has the added bonus that it also has a very nice coloured dial.

    But it runs 30 seconds slow every day

    Lovely dial choice. I was tempted to get that and the black but the collection is out of control.

    Now just enjoy the bloody thing

  47. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by boring_sandwich View Post
    Just to update the post I have finally located a watch with what looks like a perfectly aligned chapter ring, bezel and dial or certainly the best I can find anywhere.

    It has the added bonus that it also has a very nice coloured dial.

    That one does look perfect, well done!

  48. #48
    Did you get the 30% off in the end?


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  49. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by OldHooky View Post
    Did you get the 30% off in the end?


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    No I ended up getting around 25% off the blue dialled model which I felt was a good saving on a special edition model.

    The black dialled model was offered with 30% off.
    Last edited by boring_sandwich; 11th November 2019 at 20:14.

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by vortgern View Post
    That one does look perfect, well done!
    Indeed looks bob on, good work


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