Reply With QuoteIf you are the owner of that Labrador and the cyclist presses charges you could be in big trouble. Not sure on the legal nicities but dog owners are definitely responsible for their behaviour.
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What is the official guidance on having dogs on leads? I always keep my dog on a lead when walking her (she's a French Bulldog and a bit of a nutter) and see some fellow walkers with the dogs off the lead, in some instances a good 100 metres away from said owner.
All good and well if the dog behaves themselves however this am as I was walking the dog I saw a black lab not on a lead chase after a cyclist who was on the designated cycle path in the park and knock him off the bike. He suffered cuts and bruises. The dog owner was apologetic and then walked away but surely if the dog is prone to behave like that then they should be on a lead? Is there a legal view of this situation?
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If you are the owner of that Labrador and the cyclist presses charges you could be in big trouble. Not sure on the legal nicities but dog owners are definitely responsible for their behaviour.
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A dog off a lead is legally deemed to be 'out of control'.
"Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. The third time it's enemy action."
'Populism, the last refuge of a Tory scoundrel'.
It all comes back to the owner of the dog. If you’re in a public place with your dog it’s your responsibility to ensure it behaves in a proper manner. Unfortunately many owners have not been sufficiently trained.
Also some so called dog trainers don’t seem to place enough emphasis on the only command that really matters. That is the recall.
Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.
100% this.Originally Posted by oldoakknives
My dog is ok off a lead until the second he sees / smells / senses a furry animal. Then he off. Until I can sort the recall, he stays on a lead.
Always used to annoy me. We kept ours on a lead as he could be aggressive (Westie) but the amount of owners who didn’t have theirs on and said “oh he’s fine with other dogs” and then didn’t like it when ours went for it....
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Owners are responsible for their dogs and any issues that arise whilst off lead would be liable for. However, there is a misconception that some dogs are aggressive and therefore need to be on a lead at all times. In many cases what is perceived as aggression is actually anxiety and some anxious dogs that are kept on leads all of the time are reacting to feeling trapped in that they cannot escape if approached by other dogs or in fact humans. My two are on lead if on a road or street. Mainly they are off lead and walking / running on the beach or country park / countryside near where I live. You will often see dogs that are crackers on lead and when off they are different dogs, relaxed, playful and inquisitive.
My Springer (Ossie) has instant recall and that includes if he sees an animal, birds or squirrels. He has been trained to the whistle using non-aversive gun dog training methods since he was eight weeks old. Five pips on the whistle when feeding him at a very young age meant that he now comes back instantly. Playing with him all of the time when he was very young now means that unless I tell him to go away and play, or we doing hunting / searching training (which he lives for) he is always within 50 feet of me when out. He sees me as his best mate and because of what I did with him when very young is interested. He isn't perfect and pulls like a train when on lead but take him off lead and he will walk alongside you and you only have to say close and he walks touching my knee.
My other dog (Clyde) is a rescue from Greece and he has been harder work. He would chase rabbits and squirrels and when he caught one he wouldn't come back until he had eaten it. He was a street dog and I think this was how he survived as a nipper. However, he now has very good recall and comes back to five pips on his whistle (different pitch to Ossie). It has taken a lot of work but is worth it as recall and the stop whistle are the two most important whistle commands in my opinion. Ossie will also comply with hand signals for stop and left / right.
Its all about the training and understanding dogs. If either of my two were going up to other dogs all of the time or chasing people / bikes they would be on lead at all times which would break my heart, particularly with the Springer. Watching him out and about / doing his thing is pretty awe inspiring. No better sight then seeing dogs running and playing in the sand dunes and hills.
OOK has it right, many owners have not been trained but it is mainly dogs that get the criticism. Both of mine have been badly attacked by out of control dogs and I have been knocked off a pushbike and a motorbike by out of control dogs. I blamed the owners on all occasions...
Personally, I don't think any dog ever should be off-lead outside of dedicated exercise areas, as there's no dog born who is 100% trustworthy and obedient, though I accept I'm in a minority in thinking this.
We have a pair of rescue lurchers who absolutely cannot be trusted off-lead for a host of compelling reasons, mainly involving death and carnage, and so they are never allowed off away from our garden.
That's common sense. Unfortunately, that's a mis-named quality, and because one of our two is horribly reactive to most other dogs, I have to try to time walks to avoid the off-lead morons and their "...well my dog is well-behaved, so what's your problem?" BS (and BTW no it f****** isn't remotely well-behaved you simpering halfwit). If I don't, Max will do his capable and enthusiastic best to tear large, wet, red lumps off whatever obese freak they're lumbering-around with...
So I'll be the sad barstool with the head torch walking two keen-as-mustard lurchers at 11pm at night, or in the pouring rain, snow, 5AM, etc...
...and as if that wasn't enough fun, we have a public footpath across our paddock, wherein dwell a number of alpacas - a beast notable for its aggressive dislike of dogs. There is no sign big enough or assertive enough to compel the off-lead morons to keep their dogs on leads. So far, the alpacas haven't kicked any dogs or owners to death yet (I have mixed feelings about that, civil liabilities notwithstanding), but certainly there have been vet visits. If I see off-leaders, I upbraid them in person - but apparently the concept of public FP / private land is WELL beyond the grasp of these arrogant, entitled morons, and I've been reluctantly forced to install fencing rather than letting Natural Selection take its course...
/rant
I was knocked off my bike by a Boxer dog a few years ago. It was on the Bristol-Bath cycle path. The owner of the dog was also on a bike. I saw the two of them enter the cycle path a hundred yards or so ahead of me. The owner immediately let the dog off the lead. The Boxer clocked me and sprinted towards me, diving into my front wheel at the last moment. I went over the handlebars & the dog ran off yelping. A few minutes later it limped back on three legs, one of it's front legs clearly broken. The owner had great difficulty carrying the Boxer and pushing his bike at the same time.
A few days later I was riding the opposite direction on the same cycle path when I came up behind another cyclist who's Jack Russell was trotting along side him. On a lead. I was still a bit sensitive about the dangers of dogs on cycle paths so rode behind the pair of them for some distance and I eventually politely advised the owner of the potential danger. He looked over his shoulder & replied that he'd been doing this for years and had never had any problems. The words were no sooner out of his mouth when the Jack Russell made a bee line for another dog on the opposite side of his owner's bike and the guy promptly ran his own dog over. He fell off his bike and I still have the vision of him lying there flat on his back looking up at me and saying "I don't have a problem with this!" It made me wonder whether it was a regular occurrence.
Another time I rode through an extendable lead when the owner was on the left side of the cycle path & the dog was on the right. The lead somehow ended up across my neck. Fortunately the lead just kept extending until I came to a halt. The owner barked at the dog with the words "Stupid Dog!" The dog didn't give a toss.
Interesting. I have a rescue Lurcher and a nicer dog you couldn’t wish to meet, but I did have her at about eight weeks old though. I take her for walk over the local playing fields where I leave her off the lead because she loves to run. If another dog owner come in she makes a bee-line at about 100mphto the newcomer just to meet it and play. On a couple of occasions the newcomer has given a snap at her if it’s not a particularly playful dog at which point my dog just jumps back and looks at it quizzically. After that initial meeting, when I call her she comes back to me.
I have a real problem with dog owners who do this. My oldest son was petrified of dogs for years after being bowled over by a lab when he was about 18 months. He would be a wreck if a dog came running up to him. I’ve had countless arguments with idiots who say ‘he’s just being friendly’, selfish beyond belief and should not be allowed to keep animals.
In my borough its supposed to be an £80 fine to have your dog off the lead in public. I have never heard of it being implemented, I would check your local council ‘stipulations’ on the matter.
I’ve two mini-schnauzers who although pleasant, I never have off the lead. I’m a firm believer (with good reason) that you can never trust a dog 100% no matter how long you have owned them or how well trained.
My pet hate (excuse the pun) is dogs off the lead in public , particularly when there are young children walking or in their bikes. And then the ones that friendly jump on you with mucky paws.
Off course I blame the owners, as has been said on this thread they need better training. But some are far too arrogant for their responsibilities.
Thanks for the feedback guys. I agree 100% it is always the responsibility of the owner and it is never the dog's fault. Owners also have a tendency to only see the good in their dogs as if their beloved will never 'flip' and act contrary to character. Our female Frenchie stays on her lead. It extends quite far so she can get a decent run (and Frenchies are basically fatties anyway who don't need a huge amount of exercise - we'd never have gotten something like a collie in London) and I am of the view that if there are people on bikes, and children around, the dog needs to be on a lead, end of.
I totally agree & I’m dog owner.
I only have a little terrier but even if she enthusiastically jumped up to a little kid there could be grief so I keep her away from other people’s children etc (even though she’s been my son’s dog since he was 2). You just never know what could happen. When I’m out I often see dog walkers saying to nervous kids “he’s ok, he won’t hurt just give him a stroke” and I just think, no.
I was having lunch in a park with my son the other day and our dog was sat with us (on the lead) a family walked in the park about 150yds away, two dogs off the lead flying all over the place and I just thought here we go.
They came bowling over to us (we were about as far away from the entrance as you could get near some trees) straight through our lunch, my dog’s gone bananas because she’s really protective over my son (and our lunch) and rightly starts telling off this other dog, then they start at each other (mostly all talk) and then the other dog starts on my dog defending his mate and we’ve got 3 dogs fighting, lunch everywhere, me with my dog on the lead and the other two trying to attack her as I’m holding her back thinking I should just let her blumin attack. Woman eventually came over and seemed more shocked I was telling her dogs to get out of it & and wasn’t very apologetic to say the least. Must have been my fault sat in a public park eating lunch with my son and under control dog I guess!
I agree with the view that dogs should not be kept off the lead in public places, especially where there are children or other vulnerable people around. For dogs that are unpredictable or can't be controlled, they should never be let off the lead unless in a completely controlled and supervised environment. I often go walking in the hills around Loch Lomond and come across many walkers and their dogs, usually off the lead - which I am happy with as long as the dog is predictable and can be controlled (e.g. the recall command). On several occassions, I have had to step in where some dogs approach my miniature poodle in a very aggressive manner; indeed, I had to pull two pitbull-type dogs off her the other week (they were out of control and their owner belatedly arrived in a panic asking if everything was OK). We let our dog off the lead in the hills (we avoid fields with animals), but will put her back on if we come across anyone.
I spend a lot of time with my dog off the lead, sometimes on the large local common and water meadows, and quite a lot of the time on private land with no public footpaths. My dog has very good recall and I don't see any problem with it. On the local common there can often be groups of up to a dozen dogs and their owners and the majority get on well together.
The local dogs who are reactive are generally kept on the lead by their owners and most people respect this and keep their dogs away from them. Having had a (very) reactive dog in the past I can understand how they feel.
Unfortunately a lot of the public see it as their right to trespass on other peoples land, without permission or reason. I have had my dog attacked in the past whilst on private land, by people with no right to be there, with out of control dogs.
Calling everyone who lets their dog off lead 'off lead morons' is a little harsh I think.
Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.
Personally I think it’s ok to let your dog off lead if they are trustworthy. Can you ever trust one 100%?. No, but then then applies to any humans as well. We have two dogs. A cava poo who trots along minding his own business and is harmless. We then have a German Shepherd who up the the age 3 was always off the lead and no bother and excellent on recall. However she has now taken a dislike to smaller dogs( they kept attacking her) and she’s never off an extendable lead unless it’s in a safe environment.
In hindsight I wish I’d kept her away from the smaller gits when she was younger but you live and learn.
If my dog chased cyclists then I would restrict her to lead only as that’s the responsible thing to do. To be honest the last thing I want when I’m out is for the dogs to get into any trouble.
I’m not sure about the comment that dogs that are not on a lead are not under control. There is no blanket law stating dogs must be in a lead in public places but it’s the owners responsibility to ensure there are under control
A lot of sense talked here.... just want to add two experiences I've had:
Whilst living in Munich (having checked the law) I was having lunch in a large central park with my border terrier on a lead (as the law required) and family. We were approached by a massive deer hound (sorry don't know the exact breed but you could have ridden it!!!) off the lead that started poking around the lunch. As previously discussed, dogs are both protective of their family members and sometimes overly sensitive on a lead when approached by other dogs, so my poor old Pip started barking (big hearts, small minds) at which point it got nasty very quickly as the deer hound grabbed Pip in its jaws and started shaking - wife screaming, kids screaming etc. I dived in (not a good idea I know, but it was instinct) and tried to get the dog to loosen its grip (if it had squeezed it would've killed Pip) and it eventually let go ... blood everywhere. Despite a crowd the only person who came forward as a witness was a kind American, none of the Germans wanted to get involved, and the dog owner simply said "its not the dogs fault, they are deaf........"
And the other one was only last week on Fistral beach in Newquay - my current border terrier is a rescue dog who is deaf and therefore not 100% on the recall as it relies on line of sight. So I naturally had him on a lead - being deaf he therefore gets surprised when dogs approach him from behind and sometimes reacts accordingly although he generally gets on with other dogs very well if he sees them first. Cue a big boxer off the lead bouncing around and visibly distressing an old lady and her dog (who was on a lead), then having a go at my dog and then back to the old lady. The owner eventually turned up (but had witnessed everything from a distance) and started having a go at the old lady. I politely said to him that the situation could be resolved if he put his dog on a lead - the response I got was - the dog is a puppy and the beach is a public place - the owner then continued by shouting at me and physically threatening me.
Not enough comeback I'm afraid, many people aren't suitable to be dog owners.....
And that is a fact.
Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.
The other point of a lead is seeing where your dog takes a dump. There's a women who walks her two dogs off the lead at the same time I walk mine. She ambles along, head buried in her phone whilst her two dogs run ahead / behind / wherever they fancy. I've seen them take a poo whilst she hasn't notice so always make a point of helpfully shouting 'excuse me' to get her attention I keep doing it until she turns back to pick it up. I'm sure she is grateful for my observant nature although I think she has since changed her walking route...
Good point, especially in the dark when you can’t see what they are up to
Don't get me wrong, they're lovely dogs, and both are brilliant with humans, clean indoors (now!) and generally tractable, but both had been trained for poaching and were adults when we got them. The older lad had also been truly horribly abused, used as a bait dog, and then thrown from a moving van into traffic... The shelter owner - unaverse to a spot of hyperbole - said she'd never had a more broken dog in 20 years rescuing them... They are both Salukis - he 100%, she 50/50 Saluki / Whippet - a breed famed for being headstrong and stubborn, and rightly IME!Interesting. I have a rescue Lurcher and a nicer dog you couldn’t wish to meet, but I did have her at about eight weeks old though. I take her for walk over the local playing fields where I leave her off the lead because she loves to run. If another dog owner come in she makes a bee-line at about 100mph
Their prey drive is massive. Last week they spotted a rabbit that I'd missed (I'm vigilant, 'cos when the dogs launch, it's painful), the rabbit was at 90 degrees to my right and they both launched without warning - she went left, he went right, and I went face first into the large poplar they were avoiding - and lost hold of Max's lead - he was on the rabbit instantly and without slowing was gone from the woods and out of sight - deaf to every call. Luckily I caught up to him laid eating his prize on the corner of the most dangerous road in the area. Lucky he'd not crossed it, or I'd probably have spent the PM burying him... F*****s!
Poor effin' rabbit.Don't get me wrong, they're lovely dogs, and both are brilliant with humans, clean indoors (now!) and generally tractable, but both had been trained for poaching and were adults when we got them. The older lad had also been truly horribly abused, used as a bait dog, and then thrown from a moving van into traffic... The shelter owner - unaverse to a spot of hyperbole - said she'd never had a more broken dog in 20 years rescuing them... They are both Salukis - he 100%, she 50/50 Saluki / Whippet - a breed famed for being headstrong and stubborn, and rightly IME!
Their prey drive is massive. Last week they spotted a rabbit that I'd missed (I'm vigilant, 'cos when the dogs launch, it's painful), the rabbit was at 90 degrees to my right and they both launched without warning - she went left, he went right, and I went face first into the large poplar they were avoiding - and lost hold of Max's lead - he was on the rabbit instantly and without slowing was gone from the woods and out of sight - deaf to every call. Luckily I caught up to him laid eating his prize on the corner of the most dangerous road in the area. Lucky he'd not crossed it, or I'd probably have spent the PM burying him... F*****s!
Our dog (8 month old Weimaraner ) Barney stays on the lead until we are into the second field of the walk. As soon as I spot another dog he’s back and straight back on it until we are safely past.
I work from home and purposely take him out mid-morning / late-afternoon so as not to bump into fellow walkers as he can be a bit jumpy with other dogs, particularly smaller ones. Larger dogs he’s OK with and just plays.
We had an incident In the summer where he was off the lead walking by the corn-fields and a short lady appeared with a King Charles that I doesn’t see due to the corn and her being at the foot of a hill. Next thing you know Barneys back / tail has gone flat and he’s ran up to her dog. She (rightly) went mad at us but it was a genuine mistake as I didn’t see her. Ever since then I’ve been very conscious of it.
I’ve just been out for the first time since the clocks have changed and I need a bloody good torch as the fields are pitch black and it’s not much fun walking around the pavements of the village.
Ok the subject of that, I’m actually a surprised at how many people walk their dogs off the lead when walking out on the streets. All it needs is the dogs attention to be distracted and it could run a cross the road at any chance. Madness.
Kids, runners, cyclists, people out for a walk, other dogs, local wildlife. If you can’t keep your dog to heel then don’t let it off the lead. Not everyone loves to be jumped up at, or approached at speed, or attacked. Never mind the poo left around our village by lazy owners. I like dogs, but there are far to many anti-social, incompetent owners.
So very-much THIS!
We've got three dogs, all the same breed, all from the same line, and all totally different off the lead, it's probably not a coincidence that the youngest is by far the best off the lead, I'd got the hang of training by the time we got her!
She's off the lead most of the time on walks, her recall and temperament are impeccable, so it's not a risk, the other two are very nice friendly placid dogs, but one runs and runs and runs, and the other wants to say hello to every dog and owner she sees, regardless of their feelings on the matter. So the older two are on the lead a lot more.
Problem with most dogs these days in their owners - they know sweet fcuk all about dog behaviour, psychology and body language and don't understand the importance of puppy socialisation. Unless your dog is walking to heel with lead and is good on recall, you shouldn't be out walking it.
Watching your dog and other dogs and reading body language is so important when walking any dog. Redirection before a dog becomes focused is so very important but most people don't understand this and wonder why their dog can get into trouble.
Walking on a lead is generally the wisest thing to do, but NOT in a field where other dogs are off their leads. Nervous owners, nervous dogs on leads, meet and greets with dogs off lead can be a recipe for disaster. Owners in these situations generally pull their dogs back as they are unsure of the unknown free roaming dog, their anxiety is picked up by both dogs, pulling dog on lead raises it up making it falsely dominant - everything kicks off. Hindering the nervous dogs ability to display the correct body language and freely interact with other dogs is normally the root of most problems I see these days.
Not all dogs get on (just like humans) and occasionally they fight (usually male on male, neutered or intact). Looks and sounds extremely aggressive, but if owners just relaxed and called their dogs back these moments rarely last long and are generally over in seconds. I've seen a few fair dogs fights (usually whilst on shoots) and not one dog was seriously injured if at all. Dogs don't generally want to be harmed and their aggression is normally a quick and effective method of working out who is boss. Dogs however that don't have the ability to know when to stop (usually lack of socialisation) should never be off the lead!
Socialisation is also so very important for all dogs, and again un-socialised dogs will bear the brunt of aggression from other dogs because they are not obeying the rules of canine etiquette.
Personally I think all dog owners should have a license and be taught and tested on the principles of dog behaviour, training and socialisation, and unless proved to be breeding stock, be neutered once fully developed.
Too many dogs and too many people who don't have clue in my opinion.
Dot is always on a long retractable lead when we are in the fields even though other dogs are roaming free. It's actually for the other dog's safety.
In the US they have dog parks where dogs can run around free which I think is a great idea as nervous children/adults/cyclists etc can stay away.
Cheers,
Neil.
I had a rant about a local chap and his Jack Russell, which rushes at me, jumping up and trying to bite me even though he has the ruddy thing on an extendable lead.
I haven't seen him for a few weeks, but I now carry a (cheap) but powerful torch, even if I go out during the day, and if it happens again (after I've told the owner to keep the dog away from me) it can try biting into some "aircraft grade" aluminium.
Most of the dog owners and walkers that I see regularly are friendly, and keep their usually docile dogs under control, but this bloke is a dick, and his dog is untrained.
Although no trees were harmed during the creation of this post, a large number of electrons were greatly inconvenienced.
Usually the owners respond better to a tap, than their dogs do. Dogs simply believe any form of aggression proves they were right to be aggressive in the first place. Are you sure it's trying to bite you? Some dogs jump up and yap simply trying to say hello. (badly trained ones)
Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.
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