closing tag is in template navbar
timefactors watches



TZ-UK Fundraiser
Results 1 to 30 of 30

Thread: Hallmark settlement e-card

  1. #1
    Apprentice
    Join Date
    Oct 2019
    Location
    Warrington, UK
    Posts
    7

    Hallmark settlement e-card

    Hello everyone,

    So I recently lost a watch, a lovely late 90's 'bond' seamaster. I'm still annoyed with myself but that's a different issue. Anyway, I claimed on my house insurance, I was under-insured as I had no idea how much the price of the seamaster had gone up by in 21 years (wow!) but I've now ended up with a hallmark e-settlement voucher for £1500 to spend with the watches of switzerland group (that's WoS, Goldsmiths and Mappin and Webb). Having had some conversations with staff and reading the T's and C's it seems that these vouchers are rather more restrictive than I had originally thought.

    I had assumed that they would be the equivalent of cash in an applicable store to be spent on anything, but apparently not. I can't use it to buy "prestigious" watches such as Patek, rolex and other rather undefined brands. Omega is apparently not prestigious to be restricted although tudor is as it sits under the rolex banner, so the north flag or ranger I was looking at out then. I also can't use it to buy pre-owned watches, which is a blow as there were some better value items there. There's even a line about only being redeemable against full price items, not sale items. My insurance company have clearly got the discount before me then! it even expires after 3 months... I'm beginning to wish I'd taken the £1095 cash alternative but I think it's a bit late for that. One person at a goldsmiths even indicated that they might not be able to give me IFC on the remaining price after the voucher.

    So before I go too much further, has anyone else had any experience with these vouchers? How much flexibility is there really? can I get some movement on prices, should I be buying before or after christmas? does it make any difference?

    Currently on my list is a replacement seamaster (quite like the grey or white dial variants on a rubber strap) or perhaps something like the bremont solo or U2. Both will require me to put money in and I'd really need that to be via interest free credit. Obviously everyone loves a deal and these things are expensive. I see that chisholm hunter have some discounts on certain bremont watches (like 20%), do I have any chance of WoS matching these prices and taking my voucher and IFC?

    really interested in hearing people's experiences.

    Cheers

  2. #2
    Journeyman
    Join Date
    Jun 2019
    Location
    Harrogate
    Posts
    110
    If the insurance replacement industry is anything like it was in 2010 when I left it, you have little chance of complaining your way to something better. You’re right, the insurance company takes the discount so there’s none left for you to negotiate for.

    It sounds like they’ve paid out at your policy limit for that type of item. If that’s the case, the only thing you could try is to find out whether the policy limit is voucher value or cash value. If the former, then demand cash to that amount and explain how you don’t believe you’ve been treated fairly. ‘Treating Customers Fairly (TCF) is a massive thing in FS in general and GI in particular. Talk about registering an official complaint and the ombudsman and you’ll be ok.

    If the policy limit is the latter, you’ve had your lot I’m afraid matey.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  3. #3
    I'm not sure what your complaint is. Your watch wasn't insured but the insurance company have as a gesture of goodwill payed out a rather large amount.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by mr.chef View Post
    I'm not sure what your complaint is. Your watch wasn't insured but the insurance company have as a gesture of goodwill payed out a rather large amount.
    The OP was under-insured not uninsured.

  5. #5
    Grand Master
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Stuck in 1996
    Posts
    11,427
    You’re not obliged to take the voucher, you can demand the cash and they have to pay it. Try telling them that you weren’t aware of your rights beforehand and they should have offered a cash settlement. Tell them you’d like to return the voucher and have it replaced with cash. The insurance ombudsman would be interested I’m sure.

  6. #6
    Grand Master JasonM's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Cambridgeshire
    Posts
    12,947
    I had one when the wife lost her Seamaster and we claimed on the insurance, you are right about the pre owned and sale item restrictions, however, I got the impression we could use it on anything else, mind you, Im pretty sure I didn't ask if I could buy a Patek with it, we ended up with a Breitling Colt quartz and a pair of diamond earrings.

    My experience here:
    https://forum.tz-uk.com/showthread.p...at-happens-now
    Cheers..
    Jase

  7. #7
    Craftsman
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    london
    Posts
    613
    I feel your pain OP - the vouchers are very restrictive and can only be used on "lesser" brands, and only for full price. I ended up buying an Oris and re-selling it for a few hundred pounds less, just to get a "cash" settlement that was slightly more than the insurance company's cash offer. Like the other person said, you'd be better off with the cash offer to be honest.

  8. #8
    Journeyman
    Join Date
    Jun 2019
    Location
    Harrogate
    Posts
    110
    Quote Originally Posted by TaketheCannoli View Post
    You’re not obliged to take the voucher, you can demand the cash and they have to pay it. Try telling them that you weren’t aware of your rights beforehand and they should have offered a cash settlement. Tell them you’d like to return the voucher and have it replaced with cash. The insurance ombudsman would be interested I’m sure.
    This only applies up to the limit of liability which is probably:-

    The cash settlement offer mentioned in OP’s post
    Less than the face value of the voucher
    A lower value than that the insco paid for the voucher

    The LOL is the lowest cost to the insurer of meeting policy obligations, so this is the value that must be offered in cash. The insco is allowed to offer more through supply chain without a matching cash offer.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by TaketheCannoli View Post
    You’re not obliged to take the voucher, you can demand the cash and they have to pay it. Try telling them that you weren’t aware of your rights beforehand and they should have offered a cash settlement. Tell them you’d like to return the voucher and have it replaced with cash. The insurance ombudsman would be interested I’m sure.
    They offered 37% more with the voucher - which would possibly offset any trouble choosing something new and adding a bit.
    It's just a matter of time...

  10. #10
    Grand Master Chris_in_the_UK's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Norf Yorks
    Posts
    35,820
    Quote Originally Posted by Omegamanic View Post
    They offered 37% more with the voucher - which would possibly offset any trouble choosing something new and adding a bit.
    Indeed.

    Arguing for a cash settlement when clearly under insured is not great advice tbh.
    When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........

  11. #11
    Grand Master
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Stuck in 1996
    Posts
    11,427
    However in this case they’ve already accepted liability and paid out.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris_in_the_UK View Post
    Indeed.

    Arguing for a cash settlement when clearly under insured is not great advice tbh.

  12. #12
    Grand Master Chris_in_the_UK's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Norf Yorks
    Posts
    35,820
    Quote Originally Posted by TaketheCannoli View Post
    However in this case they’ve already accepted liability and paid out.
    With a voucher, at a higher value.
    When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Kingstepper View Post
    The OP was under-insured not uninsured.
    Does that not mean uninsured? I believe my insurance wouldn’t cover me

  14. #14
    Journeyman
    Join Date
    Jun 2019
    Location
    Harrogate
    Posts
    110
    Likely the single item limit or limit for ‘valuables’ as defined in the policy was lower than the value of the watch. So the OP was insured for the loss but to a lower value than would have been necessary for full reinstatement.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by mr.chef View Post
    Does that not mean uninsured? I believe my insurance wouldn’t cover me
    Think most will pay out on an 'average' basis in this situation.

  16. #16
    Journeyman
    Join Date
    Jan 2019
    Location
    Sheffield
    Posts
    218
    You have almost no chance of using the voucher, getting a discount and buying the rest on IFC.

    Insurance companies buy these vouchers with atleast 20% discount. Hence there’s no further movement on price compared to cash.

    You can go down the cash settlement route and push for higher. However you’ll need to check the wording of your policy. Given they’re under insured
    I assume you went for the cheapest provider and not all policies are equal. In the small print of your insurance documents it probably says that items over the limit are non insured so the fact they’ve paid out is really as a gesture of goodwill.

    If you want a north flag and can top up the different via a credit card (rather than IFC) I think they’d go for it. Speak to the manager they have some leeway on these things.

  17. #17
    Apprentice
    Join Date
    Oct 2019
    Location
    T'up, North
    Posts
    106
    Sorry to hear you lost a good watch.

    Would this not be do-able?

    https://www.goldsmiths.co.uk/Oris-Di...-8/p/17601038/

    You’d only need to find £50...


    Sent from my iPhone using TZ-UK mobile app

  18. #18
    Grand Master
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Stuck in 1996
    Posts
    11,427
    OK

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris_in_the_UK View Post
    With a voucher, at a higher value.

  19. #19
    Apprentice
    Join Date
    Oct 2019
    Location
    Warrington, UK
    Posts
    7
    Lots of comments, thanks people. I'll respond to some.

    Quote Originally Posted by mr.chef View Post
    I'm not sure what your complaint is. Your watch wasn't insured but the insurance company have as a gesture of goodwill payed out a rather large amount.
    I wasn't complaining as such (well, a bit maybe) but more looking for people's experience with these vouchers. have the T's and C's been strictly adhered to or has there been some flexibility for example. and as someone pointed out, I was underinsured, not uninsured. my seamaster was 21 years old. they cost an awful lot less back then and I hadn't kept track of the current prices. It is my fault, just hadn't given it much thought. I had the "fancy watch" thing sorted and hadn't been into an omega dealer in decades..

    Quote Originally Posted by TaketheCannoli View Post
    You’re not obliged to take the voucher, you can demand the cash and they have to pay it. Try telling them that you weren’t aware of your rights beforehand and they should have offered a cash settlement. Tell them you’d like to return the voucher and have it replaced with cash. The insurance ombudsman would be interested I’m sure.
    well, they offered a voucher for the full single item limit amount and waived the excess. I asked about a cash alternative and they said they could offer me the amount the voucher would cost them, which was £1095. that's a hell of a discount, I wish I could buy those vouchers for those prices! I did wonder about taking the cash but it felt like leaving £405 on the table. maybe I chose wrongly?

    Also, I've got the voucher now, not sure I can return it for cash anymore :)

    Quote Originally Posted by amii21 View Post
    I feel your pain OP - the vouchers are very restrictive and can only be used on "lesser" brands, and only for full price. I ended up buying an Oris and re-selling it for a few hundred pounds less, just to get a "cash" settlement that was slightly more than the insurance company's cash offer. Like the other person said, you'd be better off with the cash offer to be honest.
    well, I can use it to buy an omega which is the intent I suppose. I wasn't in the market for a patek or rolex anyway. tudor being included is a bit of a disappointment as it would be cheaper than the current equivalent but it wasn't my top choice anyway so..

    Quote Originally Posted by mr.chef View Post
    Does that not mean uninsured? I believe my insurance wouldn’t cover me
    I'll be honest and say that I was a bit surprised. not going to knock it however! £1500 voucher is better than no voucher!

    Quote Originally Posted by Sean89 View Post
    You have almost no chance of using the voucher, getting a discount and buying the rest on IFC.
    should I be able to get voucher and IFC at least?

    when I explained my situation to the breitling store in the trafford centre, they indicated that they could take the voucher, and then a deposit of 10% of the remaining amount and then do IFC which would be do-able.

    it's a bit frustrating though to think that one of the watches I fancy is the bremont solo, RRP £2995 but currently being sold by chisholm hunter at £2350, a discount of £645. had I taken the cash from my insurers I'd end up with a lower monthly cost than using a £1500 voucher on the full price...

    Quote Originally Posted by benwisback View Post
    Sorry to hear you lost a good watch.

    Would this not be do-able?

    https://www.goldsmiths.co.uk/Oris-Di...-8/p/17601038/

    You’d only need to find £50...
    it would be do-able but I'm not sure how much I fancy that. If I can get 3-5 years IFC then I have a bunch of options.

    I'm disappointed that pre-owned items are off the table though. there's some nice 2nd hand watches available...

  20. #20
    Journeyman
    Join Date
    Jan 2019
    Location
    Sheffield
    Posts
    218
    They might do the voucher plus IFC if it’s over 500 or a grand additional. If you can stretch to 3-4grand total price there’s a lot more money in it for them.

    The provider of IFC chargers the firm a % so that eats into the profit margin especially as the original voucher was heavily discounted to your insurer.

    I’d say just visit your local WoS or Goldsmiths, speak to the manager explain the situation. These things aren’t fixed. They’ll want additional money from you if they can get it.

    Their second hand watches have a healthy mark up so even taking account of voucher discount they aren’t losing out.

    They don’t do IFC on pre-owned so you’ll have to make up the difference with cash or standard credit at 9.9% via V12 (PayPal does 1year free online)

  21. #21
    Apprentice
    Join Date
    Oct 2019
    Location
    Warrington, UK
    Posts
    7
    Quote Originally Posted by Sean89
    They might do the voucher plus IFC if it’s over 500 or a grand additional. If you can stretch to 3-4grand total price there’s a lot more money in it for them.
    well, my current two choices are the bremont solo (or maybe u2) or a seamaster diver. they're both in that range. funnily enough, I've not found a dealer with both in yet to be able to look at them side by side.

  22. #22
    Journeyman
    Join Date
    Jan 2019
    Location
    Sheffield
    Posts
    218
    Quote Originally Posted by fyonn View Post
    well, my current two choices are the bremont solo (or maybe u2) or a seamaster diver. they're both in that range. funnily enough, I've not found a dealer with both in yet to be able to look at them side by side.
    If you really enjoyed the weight of the seamaster you’ll miss it, I like the Solo but it feels very light compared to a chunky diver.

    Given you’re in Warrington I guess WoS Manchester and goldsmiths Trafford are going to be best bet at seeing them both.

    I know it’s more cost but I’d take the plunge on the seamaster. It’s a classic and will hold up better than the other two, but you already know that as your previous one was 20odd year old and still modern

  23. #23
    Craftsman
    Join Date
    Jun 2018
    Location
    dunfermline fife
    Posts
    405
    This thread should serve as a reminder for people to check their insurance coverage if nothing else.

  24. #24
    Journeyman
    Join Date
    Jun 2019
    Location
    Harrogate
    Posts
    110
    There have been a few threads like this since I started. I might reach out to my former colleagues in the industry, double check a few things are still the same, and write what I would intend to be a more definitive guide to the claims process.

    But that would be all secondary to the previous poster’s very valid point: the number one rule in insurance is buy a policy you understand with the appropriate level of coverage (and abide by its terms). If you’re unsure, go to a broker, the extra few quid will seem inconsequential if you need to claim.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  25. #25
    Apprentice
    Join Date
    Oct 2019
    Location
    Warrington, UK
    Posts
    7
    Quote Originally Posted by Sean89 View Post
    Given you’re in Warrington I guess WoS Manchester and goldsmiths Trafford are going to be best bet at seeing them both.
    There is a goldsmiths in warrington, but it doesn't stock omega or bremont.

    Both goldsmiths in the trafford centre (yes both, but there are three, as the breitling boutique is goldsmiths too) have bremont but they don't stock omega as they're not allowed, due to the presence of an omega boutique nearby (which is actually a beaverbrooks).

    the WoS in manchester stocks omega but not bremont...

    mappin and webb is closed for refurb sadly...

    Quote Originally Posted by Sean89 View Post
    I know it’s more cost but I’d take the plunge on the seamaster. It’s a classic and will hold up better than the other two, but you already know that as your previous one was 20odd year old and still modern
    I am currently leaning towards the seamaster. it's more expensive but it feels like you get a lot more watch for your money. I'm umming and ahh'ing between options though. the one I lost was a classic blue wave dial, but I'm tempted by the grey dial/blue bezel or the white dial/black bezel too in this new range. and I quite like the rubber straps, though the bracelet is so good and iconic that I kinda want both. any chance of getting the rubber strap thrown in do you think?

  26. #26
    Master
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Salisbury
    Posts
    2,301
    The grey dial is lovely in person, this is my second seamster and I love the grey dial, I have just ordered a rubber strap and buckle for mine. You can't go wrong with the seamster and its 5 years warranty.

  27. #27
    Apprentice
    Join Date
    Oct 2019
    Location
    Warrington, UK
    Posts
    7
    Quote Originally Posted by shoppy View Post
    The grey dial is lovely in person, this is my second seamster and I love the grey dial, I have just ordered a rubber strap and buckle for mine. You can't go wrong with the seamster and its 5 years warranty.
    can I ask, how much did the rubber strap and buckle cost you? when I asked, I was astounded that they apparently cost the strap and buckle separately, as though you could use the one without the other...

  28. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by fyonn View Post
    can I ask, how much did the rubber strap and buckle cost you? when I asked, I was astounded that they apparently cost the strap and buckle separately, as though you could use the one without the other...
    You can though - not uncommon to find branded buckles on other makers' straps, and vice versa.

  29. #29
    Apprentice
    Join Date
    Oct 2019
    Location
    Warrington, UK
    Posts
    7
    Quote Originally Posted by hughtrimble View Post
    You can though - not uncommon to find branded buckles on other makers' straps, and vice versa.
    with leather yes, but I thought that with rubber straps the buckle was added during construction? how do you open up the rubber to add a new buckle without destroying the integrity of the rubber?

  30. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by fyonn View Post
    with leather yes, but I thought that with rubber straps the buckle was added during construction? how do you open up the rubber to add a new buckle without destroying the integrity of the rubber?
    That, I don't know. I would assume it is the same as other straps with the buckle held in place with a spring bar, but I could be wrong.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •