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Thread: Smart Meters.... a warning...

  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldoakknives View Post
    It's a prediction, nobody said it was in force at the moment, which was fairly obvious. However with the increasing concern about energy usage it's not unreasonable to think smart meters will be put forward as a tool to help reduce it. and become more commonplace if not mandatory.
    Some common sense at last!

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris_in_the_UK View Post
    However they monitor my usage, be it smart monitor or analogue clock - they know what I use, it’s how they bill me.

    FFS.
    ...and at the moment its flat rate...

    In future you'll be heavily charged during peak times.

    We know you're neither a nice or particularly clever chap, but surely even you get this?

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skier View Post
    Nothing there backs up any statements you made.
    Have you read it? 197 pages. It talks about everything from removal of gas supplies to future horrendous energy costs!

  4. #54
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    I was with N power and had a smart meter for 2 years with zero problems, swapped to EDF and the meter was not compatible and the human that entered my opening meter reading put the . In the wrong place, I then got a bill for £2k and 6 months down the road it’s still not be resolved despite a dozen emails, half a dozen meter readings and pictures etc


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  5. #55
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    Am I correct in thinking that smart meters tell you when you are using gas or electricity?
    As I can see when I've got the telly, lights, heating, washing machine etc going, and I can input my readings on the website, am I missing something?
    "Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. The third time it's enemy action."

    'Populism, the last refuge of a Tory scoundrel'.

  6. #56
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    I think people who believe there is not some ulterior motive down the line for smart meters are being a little naive.
    Why would the government push an agenda costing billions just so that we can see when we are using more energy and don’t have to send a meter reading once a month.

  7. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by number2 View Post
    Am I correct in thinking that smart meters tell you when you are using gas or electricity?
    As I can see when I've got the telly, lights, heating, washing machine etc going, and I can input my readings on the website, am I missing something?
    Yes you’re right but for the customer, you can see exactly how much you’re using on the display whether it be in kwh or pounds and pence for both has and electric.

    As for others who are saying that the energy companies will use this to charge a higher rate at peak times, they already offer this under tariffs such as Economy 7 etc etc.

  8. #58
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    Smart meters can be used to interrupt your supply remotely. I don't fancy being cold and hungry thanks to a hacker, glitch or Brazil style bureaucratic foul up. Unlikely? probably but why risk it for something that is only beneficial to the company installing the kit. It takes me 2 minutes to submit a reading every few months, less now the meter is more accessible in my new place. I know when I've left lights on I don;t need a display to tell me about it.

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by julian2002 View Post
    Smart meters can be used to interrupt your supply remotely. I don't fancy being cold and hungry thanks to a hacker, glitch or Brazil style bureaucratic foul up. Unlikely? probably but why risk it for something that is only beneficial to the company installing the kit. It takes me 2 minutes to submit a reading every few months, less now the meter is more accessible in my new place. I know when I've left lights on I don;t need a display to tell me about it.
    Quite agree ,don’t fix what ain’t broke comes to mind.

  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by kungfupanda View Post
    Yes you’re right but for the customer, you can see exactly how much you’re using on the display whether it be in kwh or pounds and pence for both has and electric.

    As for others who are saying that the energy companies will use this to charge a higher rate at peak times, they already offer this under tariffs such as Economy 7 etc etc.
    Rather like watching the wheel going round faster on the old electric meters! The day I want to spend time watching how much it costs to have a light on will be a sad one indeed.

  11. #61
    Grand Master oldoakknives's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by julian2002 View Post
    Smart meters can be used to interrupt your supply remotely. I don't fancy being cold and hungry thanks to a hacker, glitch or Brazil style bureaucratic foul up. Unlikely? probably but why risk it for something that is only beneficial to the company installing the kit. It takes me 2 minutes to submit a reading every few months, less now the meter is more accessible in my new place. I know when I've left lights on I don;t need a display to tell me about it.
    Yup this.
    They are a solution without a problem to solve.

  12. #62
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    Off on a slight tangent........it came to light when an engineer came to install our 'smart meter' last year that we couldn't have one because we have some huge old fuses on the supply side coming into our meter. You'll have to get those changed first he said and packed up his gear.

    Now I'm no expert but surely the supply side coming into the meter is not my responsibility and in fact I'm not allowed to touch it even if I wanted too. So my question is in the modern age of all these different supply companies that we can change between.......who actually owns and is responsible for the infrastructure?

    I see it a bit like the railways with Eon etc. being Thameslink, Midland etc. so who is the electricity/gas equivalent of Network Rail?

    I'm not really bothered about the smart meter, hence why I've not done anything about it.......just curious as I suspect at some point they will become compulsory like the water meters.

  13. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by oldoakknives View Post
    Yup this.
    They are a solution without a problem to solve.
    Like apps to see what's in the fridge.

  14. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by julian2002 View Post
    Smart meters can be used to interrupt your supply remotely. I don't fancy being cold and hungry thanks to a hacker, glitch or Brazil style bureaucratic foul up. Unlikely?
    Nonesense.
    When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........

  15. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by oldoakknives View Post
    Rather like watching the wheel going round faster on the old electric meters! The day I want to spend time watching how much it costs to have a light on will be a sad one indeed.
    My mother tells me it costs her 9 pence to mow the lawn 😂😂

  16. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by 33JS View Post
    Have you read it? 197 pages. It talks about everything from removal of gas supplies to future horrendous energy costs!
    Slide (37) on Smart Meters yes (and now most of it). It doesn't make or back the statements you made. The statement on Smart Meters/Digital Homes states:

    "Digital technology offers firms and households the opportunity to use smart appliances more efficiently, to turn on washing machines when electricity is cheap and plentiful, or turn off freezers for a few minutes when demand spikes."

    This is the consumers choice, not the providers. I can already schedule my washing machine to come on overnight if I wish. There's no way a provider can selectively turn off my fridge freezer remotely without initiating a wide-ranging power cut.

    Slide 102 covers smart meters and discusses 'encourage a shift in demand to off-peak times with cheaper tariffs and incentives.' These exisit today without smart meters.

    There's more on slide 114 but the whole presentation is not a statement of intent but a look at the current situation (in non-impartial terms in some areas) and options for the future. Nowhere does it discuss hiking prices during peak times. There's no metion of the removal of the domestic gas supply and I haven't seen this reported/proposed anywhere and a quick (and I do mean quick) Google search threw up nothing.

  17. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris_in_the_UK View Post
    However they monitor my usage, be it smart monitor or analogue clock - they know what I use, it’s how they bill me.
    At the moment, they only know how much electricity you use in total between two meter readings (which indeed they use to bill you).

    If you have a Smart Meter, they will know exactly how much electricity you are using at every minute of every day. Having that much richer data will allow them to charge you selective tariffs (and it's not likely that it will be to your financial advantage). More to the point, analysis of that data will allow them to tell, to a high degree of accuracy, your affluence level, the number of people in your household, whether they are employed, etc, etc. which is information that can then be sold on to advertisers and others. This is why people are investing so much in Big Data analysis systems.

  18. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by 33JS View Post
    ...We know you're neither a nice or particularly clever chap, but surely even you get this?
    I don’t think you are in a position to judge anybodies demeanour or intellect. Rather than sully the G&D with your petty insults, let’s agree to differ, seriously.
    When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........

  19. #69
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    Anyone who wants to know more about how electricity supply will change in the future and how it will affect the relationship between consumers and the utility companies could search for ‘Smart Grids’.

    In time individual appliances will reduce their demand based on signals from the grid based on the overall demand. ‘Involuntary rationing’ will kick in if the overall demand is too much for the grid to cope with.

    Smart meters are part of the development of smart grids. Some of the more advanced features of smart grids have already been deployed, especially in the US, eg the power company turning off your air conditioning if they judge your house is cool enough and demand overall is high. A SMETS smart meter can’t do that though.

  20. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris_in_the_UK View Post
    Nonesense.
    Really?

    https://rogerhelmermep.wordpress.com...-smart-meters/

    http://bishophill.squarespace.com/bl...of-the-uk.html




    I work from home so if my electricity company decides to do some sort of rolling blackout during the day I'm screwed. Then there's the increase in electric transportation with little sign that the infrastructure needed to support them being implemented. While I'm actually very in favor of electric cars and the like I'm not going to sit in a cold dark house unable to work and support my family just so my neighbors can charge their cars that evening. Smart meters are a stop gap to mask the lack of necessary investment in power infrastructure for this new millennium.

    I agree thinking like this may be a bit 'tin foil hat' but I'd rather not risk it, and as I say I see no advantage to me to adding a piece of gadgetry they've already got wrong once before into my life (I write software for a living and the cartoon below is very true)


  21. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by alfat33 View Post
    Some of the more advanced features of smart grids have already been deployed, especially in the US, eg the power company turning off your air conditioning if they judge your house is cool enough and demand overall is high.
    What could possibly go wrong? :-)

  22. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by julian2002 View Post
    Really?

    https://rogerhelmermep.wordpress.com...-smart-meters/

    http://bishophill.squarespace.com/bl...of-the-uk.html


    I work from home so if my electricity company decides to do some sort of rolling blackout during the day I'm screwed. Then there's the increase in electric transportation with little sign that the infrastructure needed to support them being implemented. While I'm actually very in favor of electric cars and the like I'm not going to sit in a cold dark house unable to work and support my family just so my neighbors can charge their cars that evening. Smart meters are a stop gap to mask the lack of necessary investment in power infrastructure for this new millennium.

    I agree thinking like this may be a bit 'tin foil hat' but I'd rather not risk it, and as I say I see no advantage to me to adding a piece of gadgetry they've already got wrong once before into my life (I write software for a living and the cartoon below is very true)
    I perhaps should have been a bit more explanetary!.

    Very tinfoil hat ATM - all very aspirational. The current smart meters are not that smart and there is so much that needs to happen in terms of infrastructure before there is the slightest chance of outside interference.
    When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........

  23. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kingstepper View Post
    Like apps to see what's in the fridge.
    Beer and cheese. No app required!
    Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.

  24. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhilipK View Post
    What could possibly go wrong? :-)
    :)

    ‘Computer says no’ could have a pretty devastating impact.

    That said, if we all want to use a lot more electricity, and also use mostly renewables, some way of managing the load intelligently at a granular level makes sense.

    My home heating is on 2 smart thermostats, upstairs and downstairs. Very basic, but at least we can choose to keep upstairs cooler than downstairs, and we are using less gas as a result. The system knows when we are out and when we are coming home, so in theory can turn the heating up and down as necessary. We don’t use that feature yet.

    I think these basic smart meters have been a huge waste of money in general (£11bn in the UK), but the principle of some two way communication between appliances and the grid makes sense to me if appropriately regulated.

  25. #75
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    Got a smart meter fitted by OVO. After a year or so they sent me a reminder my tariff was coming to an end. Tried to renew, but couldn't.
    Turns out the smart meter is useless...they had to rely on estimates. Changed to another supplier and a year, this coming January it is still not sorted.
    New supplier cannot get reading, nor info from OVO. OVO still want me to pay a S/O and blame the authorities...... But can't tell me who they are. A complete mess and waste of my time.
    These meters and manufacturers should be subject to miss-selling under the CPR as the one thing they are not, is smart!!!

    Sent from my BBF100-1 using Tapatalk

  26. #76
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    A while back I did a bit of reading around the subject of Data Disaggregation and Smart Meters - there appears to be academic research ongoing into the subject and the ability to separate and identify usage data down to individual appliance level, presumably from the harmonics that appliances generate in the mains. I've no idea how advanced or viable the research is but, to me, its a pretty clear indication of the level of data the industry is seeking.

    Of course what they choose to do with that data if and when they obtain it is an interesting question, but, with my foil hat firmly in place, I can image a time where government could take advantage, for example, to decide perhaps that tumble dryers are 'bad' and should be individually charged/taxed out of existence.

    Eric Blair would be proud...

  27. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldoakknives View Post
    Beer and cheese. No app required!
    No pickled eggs?

  28. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris_in_the_UK View Post
    I perhaps should have been a bit more explanetary!.

    Very tinfoil hat ATM - all very aspirational. The current smart meters are not that smart and there is so much that needs to happen in terms of infrastructure before there is the slightest chance of outside interference.
    Oh I agree the chance of an outside hack is minimal and any planned shutoffs are a way away but as I cannot see any inherent advantage to having a smart meter in the first place the only thing it brings to the table are negatives. This makes me extremely reluctant to have one installed just to save a few quid a month on my bill.

  29. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris_in_the_UK View Post
    I don’t think you are in a position to judge anybodies demeanour or intellect. Rather than sully the G&D with your petty insults, let’s agree to differ, seriously.
    Hey, I was just responding in kind to the way you signed off both of your posts to me: One was 'your bollox' and the other was 'FFS'. Neither nice, neither clever and none commensurate with G&D! You give it, you take it!

    I'm happy to have civil discussions, but you set the level of play here...

    My view is that anyone thinking these are not setting up for peak rate tariff adjustments to limit elec use has missed the whole intent and acceptable capital expenditure on this project.

  30. #80
    Grand Master Chris_in_the_UK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 33JS View Post
    Hey, I was just responding in kind to the way you signed off both of your posts to me: One was 'your bollox' and the other was 'FFS'. Neither nice, neither clever and none commensurate with G&D! You give it, you take it!

    I'm happy to have civil discussions, but you set the level of play here...

    My view is that anyone thinking these are not setting up for peak rate tariff adjustments to limit elec use has missed the whole intent and acceptable capital expenditure on this project.
    touche!

    i do think that there will be some tariff ‘twiddling’ but it’s a way off yet.
    When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........

  31. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris_in_the_UK View Post
    touche!

    i do think that there will be some tariff ‘twiddling’ but it’s a way off yet.
    It'll be based on uptake. As soon as enough folk take them on, then it'll be rolled out. I do stress about the removal of domestic gas supplies, we had that in Norway and cooking with leccy is a pain in the 'arris.

  32. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by julian2002 View Post

    I would suggest that this article from 2011 was scaremongering then and can now be seen such. It's quite interesting that someone in his position can get it so wrong. No governemnt would survive for long if they seriously started to suggest governement controlled powercuts across the country. Added to this no Government would want to disadvantage its citizens in this way or damage the economy.

  33. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by gerard View Post
    Got a smart meter fitted by OVO. After a year or so they sent me a reminder my tariff was coming to an end. Tried to renew, but couldn't.
    Turns out the smart meter is useless...they had to rely on estimates. Changed to another supplier and a year, this coming January it is still not sorted.
    New supplier cannot get reading, nor info from OVO. OVO still want me to pay a S/O and blame the authorities...... But can't tell me who they are. A complete mess and waste of my time.
    These meters and manufacturers should be subject to miss-selling under the CPR as the one thing they are not, is smart!!!

    Sent from my BBF100-1 using Tapatalk
    Currently having a similar issue with OVO. Trying to change tariff in voew of their upcoming price rise and none of the other suppliers will allow a change.

    Contacted OVO who have advised they have fitted a "commercial meter" rather than a residential one which has casued the issue.

    Apparently it wll take them 4-6 weeks to resolve this.. hmmmm, we'll see.

  34. #84
    Grand Master oldoakknives's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pitfitter View Post
    No pickled eggs?
    Not in the fridge!!

    Those were the days, light and bitter and a packet of cheese and onion with a pickled egg in it. Halogen days.....
    Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.

  35. #85
    Many years ago foolishly tried making pickled eggs by boiling in vinegar rather than putting boiled eggs in vinegar.
    Housemate returned from lunchtime pub to the house stinking of vinegar.

  36. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skier View Post
    ... I work from home so if my electricity company decides to do some sort of rolling blackout during the day I'm screwed. ...
    Quote Originally Posted by Skier View Post
    ...No governemnt would survive for long if they seriously started to suggest governement controlled powercuts across the country. Added to this no Government would want to disadvantage its citizens in this way or damage the economy.
    Funnily enough I did a project with a talented graphic designer and animator working out of Cape Town, and the government / power companies did indeed turn off his electricity periodically, half way through delivering urgent work. I believe they call it 'load shedding'. Quite unexpected when we hired him for the job, and I'm afraid he's unlikely to get hired again on anything with a critical deadline and rapid feedback loops, which is sad.

    I can't imagine it happening here though, they can't exactly turn off the City of London. Though they may be way behind on the nuclear plants they need to fill in the gaps of a greener supply, so anything is possible. We need some fusion power quick!

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