Reply With QuoteI do think that Hatton and Burlington are probably bucking a trend here. They seem to be uncharacteristically well populated with stock compared to other used watch spots.
Also, the prices in both are crazy strong.
I know there are plenty of threads on Rolex availability and im sure this isn't a surprise to many however...
I was in Hatton Garden yesterday and then had a walk over to Burlington Arcade and was actually shocked at the amount of Rolex watches I saw. Models that are hard to get hold of new were there in abundance used it seemed. I must have seen 100+ GMT master models. At least 20+ Batman models, loads of subs, 20+ daytonas.
I know in the grand scheme of production numbers this is nothing but still there were a lot of 2108 and 2019 models so must be a fair amount that are going from the AD straight to dealers (via a customer, im not suggesting the ADs are selling them on).
As I say probably not news to most but having not been to Hatton Garden or Burlington Arcade before I was surprised.
I do think that Hatton and Burlington are probably bucking a trend here. They seem to be uncharacteristically well populated with stock compared to other used watch spots.
Also, the prices in both are crazy strong.
I think you’ve answered you’re own questionOriginally Posted by TimeThoughts
At their prices they don’t just fly off the shelves
These establishments are serving two purposes, firstly somewhere for the profiteers to offload their watches for that quick buck and secondly a ready source of watches available to wear today for those who have deep pockets. The markup may seem steep to many on here, but if you are a Premier League Footballer on £300k a week for example, it's loose change in the back pocket.
People must be buying or these places wouldn't exist.
Burlington arcade is a joy to stroll down, but only a fool would buy or sell a watch there. As such it can hold the rare and unobtainable, because when the occasional fool parts with either watch or money the profit margins that I have witnessed, having had a few rare things (under) valued and casually asked about other watches for sale, are eye watering.
Yeah the prices were strong, a lot didnt even have the price displayed. Maybe the price depends on how wealthy you appear to be.
There will be a point when the prices get so high stock sits and we will see a decrease I guess unless these places just cater for the money no object crowd
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Ditto on Chrono24 ... huge numbers of Rolex for sale.
Sort of makes you start questioning why people don't want to keep them ! Too many being bought by flippers to sell on, and not enough ending up in the hands of real people that just want a decent watch to wear ... ?
People don't want to keep them, because they never wanted them in the first place. The majority only bought them to make a few grand selling them on. As long as people with plenty of money to spend are prepared to buy them it will be the case.
Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.
Same in watchfinder at Liverpool Street. Loads about. Check chrono 24 as well.
A few years ago I wandered through the Burlington Arcade between meetings.
There were plenty of rocking-horse watches on display - Many I'd only seen mentioned in forums before.
The prices were high, but not eye-wateringly so, but I think things have changed in the used watch market generally and now there's a market for some watches at almost any price and enough people wanting them to make such prices feasible.
Of course, I don't suppose shop rental in the Burlington Arcade is exactly cheap, so it's no great suprise to find the prices there are inflated.
There is a certain type of shopper who worries more about availability than price and the Burlington Arcade is exactly the kind of place they'll shop.
M
I agree with you totally mate...
However, how are the people who didn't want them in the first place actually obtaining them, when ADs are actively watching for flippers and allegedly only selling to VIPs / loyal customers?
Might a single VIP be perpetually buying, flipping, buying, flipping?
Flippers can afford to keep buying and ADs keep selling to them. Are you sure ADs are actively watching for flippers? Perhaps ADs would call them good spenders.
Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.
I'm sure there are 'valued customers' that are flipping. If you bought a lot of watches and spent alot of money on many different models then taking a daytona, batman, hulk just be move on for a massive profit works well for you and then you probably buy something else later so works well for the AD to.
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I was conversing with the manager of my local AD at the weekend and he told me they actively scour Chrono24 and other well known sites/forums to see if they recognise any local sellers. He said if they catch anyone flipping, they call them up and never sell to them again.
Do you think they put that into practice or does it sound like scare tactics and arse covering?
I was surprised how many Pateks were also in Burlington. 5712 / 5167 / 5164 and a few other variants (gold and steel models)
However I was there also 2 weeks ago and its the same watches in the windows today (easily Id’d by the PPs nasty bezel scratches). Clearly not selling much of the hot models at the moment - maybe prices have peaked finally.
I know of a few local grey dealers to me that have had hot watches in stock for weeks and weeks judging by their social media photos. I dont think they sell as fast as we may be led to believe...
ADs aren’t sophisticated enough to be able to do this, and a lot of them are generally pretty thick - so it’s scaremongering 100%
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The main thing to remember was that just over two years ago, Rolex were under valued and ADs had to discount them and the greys were selling them at extremely low prices.
Today, after turning off the taps, prices are way higher and the greys are now the bad boys because they are selling way above RRP. Even if prices have peaked, this has been a very successful brand enhancing programme by Rolex and over the longer term, it will continue.
People will always pay for exclusivity and there are plenty of rich people around ready to pay an inflated price to avoid the waiting game.
I agree.
You would have to be a complete moron to go in the David Duggan store and expect a fair deal.
Yeah there's been a softening in the market which I've also noticed.
The Tudor Chrono All Black is a great example. Only limited stock available and it looks like most went to flippers judging by the amount on forums, EBay and watch selling sites etc not collectors or people that actually want to wear them but profiteers. Very frustrating when you actually want to slap one on your wrist and wear it. It’s no different to ticket touts buying up tickets for events with the intention of making money above face value.
The only way to get offered these kind of sought after watches is to have the purchasing relationship with an AD which you can’t do because those profiteering B’stards that buy and flip to make a quick quid with excuses of why now they have it but don’t want because of XYZ excuse are plentiful and queued up for them.
Yes I’m bitter 🙂
I did the exact same trip yesterday too!
Didn’t see a single 214270 on display anywhere but plenty of GMT etc as you say. I saw a particularly animated deal outside Paris Jewels, it was almost barbaric.
I don't think there's enough profit in the explorer for the dealers to bother that much. Only seem to be a few hundred at most over list, cant see many people trying to flip one.
I got one within 4 weeks and have no history or relationship with the AD I bought from.
Better to make 5k on a gmt
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Do the sellers put their photos on there then, if they recognise them?
Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.
I don't know really, I wondered that. No, photos arent present. I guess they check the usual social media sites to see if they recognise anyone daft enough to sell on there. Goldsmiths UK might have a presence on these forums for example and have the ability to do some digging if one pops up for sale when the seller writes that it was from a Goldsmiths in the post (it does happen).
He said they can recognise serial numbers (although I'm aware most hide these on sale posts).
I am sure a clever seller who can create an inconspicuous account away from the popular social media sites, or better still, flip direst to a grey dealer face 2 face will get away with it.
It all depends how fussy you are, many people on long waiting lists had to have brand new and a certain model or whatever.
If someone just wanted a very nice Rolex then they could get hold of one if they wanted if less fussy about the whole business.
I once got an extremely favourable deal on a 5513 in David Duggan. Sold it on a few years later to a US dealer at about three times the price I paid. Although I still regret doing that...
Admittedly this was a few years ago just before prices went mental, but there were deals to be had in those days.
I’m new to all this Rolex chat really but I have always had a liking for them.
I did realise it was difficult to get them from AD without a wait if at all.
However I was really surprised when a colleague of mine was able to walk straight into an AD Just a few months ago and purchase a 228349RBR there and then.
Not a Rolex collector whatsoever.
I guess they do have some stock that they will sell to anyone?
Unlike dated subs ?
I have yet to see a No date Submariner in an AD. I have been trying since March. I have been very specific in my request but if a Date Submariner was available I’d be equally happy
The only SS reference I have seen is the Air-King twice in AD’s windows.
Exactly this, people need to stop buying them to stop the crazy second hand values. A BLNR was on the SC last week at £12.5k for a 2014 watch which I believe has sold, to me that is just madness paying double the rrp for a 5 year old watch! a new watch at double RRP is still stupid but I can just about understand why people would buy one.
It would not surprise me if the best buyers at AD are just flipping, or even if some AD are "in" on it and split the profits.
Some may be buying to hold and sell for a profit, as they believe the trees do indeed grow to the sky? With the weak pound these days it must be an attractive investment option for some foreign buyers who believe the ceiling still has a way to go....
I remember seeing a picture of a grey dealer shop window in Tokyo in one of the Rolex threads. Two rows of BLNR's all aimed at mainly Chinese tourists.
That isn’t a ‘hard to get’ model. The hard ones in a rough order are:
White Daytona
Black Daytona
Blue Skydweller
BLRO GMT
HULK
BLNR GMT
Black Skydweller
White Skydweller
Sub Date
Sub Non-Date
White Explorer II
Black Explorer II
Blue Face Date Just 41
The market does seem to have settled slightly. I’ve seen more incomings recently and prices have dipped a bit which is a good sign!
Could you expand on why the above listed are hard to acquire?
They don’t make as many?
The watch I listed as off the shelf is unpopular?
it’s taken 4 years to ponder this?
When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........
The idea that a retailer would expend time and effort to try to identify customers just so that they can contact them to inform them that they don't want to sell to them again is somewhat bizarre.
I would expect that they will be much more interested in using the time and resources to figure out ways to increase their sales/profitability.
I guess the basic answer is supply and demand. I think they are arguably the nicest Rolex models (based on general consensus). The sub has heritage, the sky dweller has a complicated movement and was previously only available in precious metal.
They were the first models that were selling above retail when they demand started to outstrip supply, which fuelled a bit of a frenzy in demand because people who didn’t previously want these models, started buying them to either sell for profit, or because they are now ‘hot’ or ‘in fashion’.
I tried on the hulk when they were readily available, by the time I was ready to buy the frenzy had begun and I had to go to lots of ADs to be put on the list. I have since managed to get a Pepsi too. I had planned to purchase a vintage one, but when they released the new one I knew I’d prefer that.
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I guess the basic answer is supply and demand. I think they are arguably the nicest Rolex models (based on general consensus). The sub has heritage, the sky dweller has a complicated movement and was previously only available in precious metal.
They were the first models that were selling above retail when they demand started to outstrip supply, which fuelled a bit of a frenzy in demand because people who didn’t previously want these models, started buying them to either sell for profit, or because they are now ‘hot’ or ‘in fashion’.
I tried on the hulk when they were readily available, by the time I was ready to buy the frenzy had begun and I had to go to lots of ADs to be put on the list. I have since managed to get a Pepsi too. I had planned to purchase a vintage one, but when they released the new one I knew I’d prefer that.
The SD43 would need to go in there somewhere, and presumably the DSSD.
Sounds all a bit far fetched to me I'm afraid. Don't believe ADs would give a monkeys and probably only hold onto warranty cards because they're told to.
Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.
Surely not...........
Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.
Agreed. I think they’d both be somewhere slightly above the Sub on the list I made, depending on the AD.
SD43's seems harder to get than the non-Blue Skydweller from what I have seen
Chisholm Hunter Falkirk today
I see chisholm hunter have a sub c for £8995 the same as mine how much are they selling for privately now I seem to have completely lost touch with up to date values
SD43’s are definitely harder to come by than subs at my AD...
Burlington arcade had a nice 116610LV Hulk For Sale, only wanted £15500 2018 watch.....
Wow that's one hell of a profit
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Question is how much did they buy it for?Burlington arcade had a nice 116610LV Hulk For Sale, only wanted £15500 2018 watch.....
He said he'd give me 11k for my 2019 LV. I just had a giggle and left.
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