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Thread: Things you find on local Facebook Buy And Sell Pages (Patel Philippe content)

  1. #1
    Master paneristi372's Avatar
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    Things you find on local Facebook Buy And Sell Pages (Patel Philippe content)

    Its always funny what you find on the local buy and sell pages on ebay. Saw this listed last night as a 'genuine Nautilus' so told him I'd pop round and have a look, classic story, it wasn't his but his Uncles who lived in Dubai and had got it years earlier. He wanted £200 and was literally only down the road so I went to have a look and a laugh.

    I wasn't on a strap as the rubber one had snapped so it was just watch and buckle in a PP box.

    Initially upon seeing the watch I was pretty shocked and surprised. I wasn't even aware there was a fake market for Aquanauts. If I hadn't owned an Aquanaut I'd have been amazed. Other than the detail in the finish of the case and the movement and its thickness its really pretty decent. I told him it was a fake and that genuine Aquanauts are about £30k at the moment, he didn't seem surprised.

    Told him I'd give him £50 for it for novelty value , he declined and before I'd driven off his drive he said he'd take £100 so I took it.

    It won't ever get worn but it is an amusing item to have. I am going to test a couple of friends who think they know a thing or two about watches.











    Thrown on a Timefactors NATO for a wrist shot.




    Couple of the real thing for comparison.








    The genuine 5167 is super sleek and it looks as though there isn't any glass on it at all.

    So watch out folks fakes are getting better and better!

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    Was the seller a creme egg loving pharmacist by any chance?

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    Master igorRIJEKA's Avatar
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    Money down the drain.

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    Movement is a bit of a give away isn't it.eta clone I presume

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    Master jukeboxs's Avatar
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    You knowingly bought a fake, supporting the fake market. Nice one.

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    Grand Master
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    Waste of a ton.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jukeboxs View Post
    You knowingly bought a fake, supporting the fake market. Nice one.
    My thoughts precisely.

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    Thanks OP. There are other fora for people like you. Now on ignore.

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    Master paneristi372's Avatar
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    Ha, some amusing responses.

    It is a waste of a ton but I was amazed that these things existed. I’d only ever seen cheap Rolex and Tag Heuer in the past.

    Stay tuned for an up and coming destruction thread. 
    Last edited by paneristi372; 12th October 2019 at 17:38.

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    I am surprised that you are amused about funding an industry that finances money laundering, drugs, child labour etc. It really is a repulsive industry and certainly not funny.

  11. #11
    Master paneristi372's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mick P View Post
    I am surprised that you are amused about funding an industry that finances money laundering, drugs, child labour etc. It really is a repulsive industry and certainly not funny.
    Sorry Mick, itís not something that has ever occurred to me. Iíve never really thought about it like that. It purely was just a fun exercise to highlight something I wasnít aware of.

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    Quote Originally Posted by paneristi372 View Post
    Sorry Mick, it’s not something that has ever occurred to me. I’ve never really thought about it like that. It purely was just a fun exercise to highlight something I wasn’t aware of.
    I must admit that I am surprised that you did not know of the mechanics of money laundering etc as it has been in operation for ever since I can remember.

    I used to sit on anti counterfit committees back in the 1970s up to the late 1990s and the publicity about it is greater today than ever before.

    The first fake I came across was brake shoes for a tractor. They became totally useless when wet, so can you imagine the possible consequences of a tractor being unable to brake. The fake industry couldn't give a damn if someone got killed, they got their money laundered and that was fine by them.

    OK, fake watches are not dangerous but it is still a way of laundering drug money and it really is something that the police should stamp on a lot harder.

    If you did this in all inocence, then fair enough.

  13. #13
    Master paneristi372's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mick P View Post
    I must admit that I am surprised that you did not know of the mechanics of money laundering etc as it has been in operation for ever since I can remember.

    I used to sit on anti counterfit committees back in the 1970s up to the late 1990s and the publicity about it is greater today than ever before.

    The first fake I came across was brake shoes for a tractor. They became totally useless when wet, so can you imagine the possible consequences of a tractor being unable to brake. The fake industry couldn't give a damn if someone got killed, they got their money laundered and that was fine by them.

    OK, fake watches are not dangerous but it is still a way of laundering drug money and it really is something that the police should stamp on a lot harder.

    If you did this in all inocence, then fair enough.

    I really didnít even consider any of this. It was purely something that Iíd genuinely never seen. Having had a quick look online there are some fakes for nearly £500 and full forums for them!!! 😵😵😵. Absolutely shocked.

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    The one good thing that has come out of this is that you have become aware of it and took it on the the chin, for that - respect.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mick P View Post
    I am surprised that you are amused about funding an industry that finances money laundering, drugs, child labour etc. It really is a repulsive industry and certainly not funny.
    If you buy an iPhone you support two out of the three of these anyway. Not an justification, just an observation.

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    Grand Master oldoakknives's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mick P View Post
    The one good thing that has come out of this is that you have become aware of it and took it on the the chin, for that - respect.
    While you're on your high horse Mick, how do you feel about people recommending shaving brushes with Badger hair in them?

    https://www.peta.org.uk/blog/pg-bans...uelty-exposed/


    Quote Originally Posted by Mick P View Post
    The best most single thing you can do to improve a wet shave is to buy the best brush you can.

    Ten or so years ago, I bought a Simpsons Chubby No2 and now I have 4. One in the UK residence, one in the UK travel bag, one in the Spanish residence and the final one in the Spanish travel bag.

    Take a look at this lot and treat yourself to one.

    https://www.simpsonshavingbrushes.com/store/

    Also the best shaving soap is Mitchells, unsurpassable.

    http://mitchellswoolfatsoap.co.uk/product/shaving-soap/

    Every man deserves no less.
    Courage is being scared to death but saddling up anyway.

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    Seen on Shpock the other week . I didnt know they were faking Pateks, until then !

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    Quote Originally Posted by paneristi372 View Post
    It is a waste of a ton but I was amazed that these things existed. Iíd only ever seen cheap Rolex and Tag Heuer in the past.
    I doubt that there are many watches that are not faked these days.

    The most faked watch is the Casio F-91W, which costs under a tenner for a genuine one. Have a look at this thread: https://forum.tz-uk.com/showthread.php?456562

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    My uncle picked the exact same Patel up on Dubai for 50 quid.

    Dubai is absolutely awash with top level fakes now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivan Drago View Post
    My uncle picked the exact same Patel up on Dubai for 50 quid.

    Dubai is absolutely awash with top level fakes now.
    Seems there is no shortage of people willing to buy them.
    Courage is being scared to death but saddling up anyway.

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    Irony is, if he wants to get the rubber strap to finish it off, it'll cost him another grand!

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    Patek, Patek, Patek,......,..

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    Iím not a fan of replica / fake watches but Iím not sure I buy the whole Ďmoney laundering / funding terrorismí aspect.

    The same arguement was often applied to movie/game pirates before everyone downloaded everything, but when most of the busts were reported, they tended to be relatively small organisations run by tech savvy people.

  24. #24
    You knowingly bought a fake and came here to show it off. Doesnít sit right with me

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    £100!?!

    Bit of a waste of cash.

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    Master paneristi372's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr.chef View Post
    You knowingly bought a fake and came here to show it off. Doesnít sit right with me
    I wasnít showing it off, just merely trying to make others aware of something I was not. Clearly missed the mark and have been rightfully chastised. Apologies. Iíve ever before bought a fake and certainly never will again.

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    Master paneristi372's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan1981 View Post
    £100!?!

    Bit of a waste of cash.

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    A bit, yeah. But was very intrigued. Going to test it to destruction.

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    The likelihood is that the case us made to a decent standard but the movement will be a 2824 chinese copy, which may or may not be total rubbish. If itís reasonable itíll benefit hugely from being serviced and lubricated properly, a genuine ETA spring and barrel may help. Alternatively, a new 2824 for around £180, plus a few £££ to strip and oil it properly, would produce a good quality watch at a fraction of the price of the real McCoy.

    Thatís how the logic and the numbers add up, but fake- owners donít want to spend money on their tat despite being willing to brag about how impressive they are.

    Woukd I do thus work on a fake?.........no, I wouldnít. However, if I yearned to own this model (which I donít) but couldn't find one, or the silly money to buy one, I think the good quality fully- sorted fake could look tempting.

    Most of us canít afford a genuine AC Cobra, but weíd be happy to own a well- built replica.......thereís a definite parallel here if you can look beyond the ethical side of fakes.

  29. #29
    Grand Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by paneristi372 View Post
    A bit, yeah. But was very intrigued. Going to test it to destruction.
    How? Makes far more sense to build it into a super- replica if you were prepared to sink £100 quid into it.


    Putting it on a timegrapher would be a more interesting excercise than testing it to destruction.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by paneristi372 View Post
    I wasnít showing it off, just merely trying to make others aware of something I was not. Clearly missed the mark and have been rightfully chastised. Apologies. Iíve ever before bought a fake and certainly never will again.
    I wouldnít beat yourself up or have others do that either, the comments are broadly right, fuelling crime, trafficking, sweat shops etc but mistakes are easily made, youíve fallen on your sword and look at it from
    a different perspective now. The one thing your guaranteed to find here is the pontificating and moralising keyboard warriors that have never put a foot wrong in life, they are few and far between in the world but we are all blessed that they frequent TZ, amazing 🙄

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    Master Harry Smith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paneristi372 View Post
    A bit, yeah. But was very intrigued. Going to test it to destruction.
    So how would you test it to destruction?
    Drive over it? Lump hammer?
    It would be interesting to see what a .38 Special through it would look like.
    I could do that for you. Be a great pic.

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    What about other genuine luxury items like handbags and fur products?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sibo View Post
    What about other genuine luxury items like handbags and fur products?

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    And your point is?...........

    My advice is based on dispassionate logic, the watch is in his hands, same as that beef steak is in my fridge, if I turned vegetarian tomorrow nothing would change that situation.

    Iíve reached an age where Iím past moralising, the OPís paid £100 for a fake watch and Iíve advised what could be a sensible way forward. Heís bought it now, heís paid his money.

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    I thought it was interesting to be made aware of the existence of this kind of fake.

    On a different strap, it would deceive many at a normal viewing distance.

    D


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    Quote Originally Posted by thestore View Post
    Iím not a fan of replica / fake watches but Iím not sure I buy the whole Ďmoney laundering / funding terrorismí aspect.

    The same arguement was often applied to movie/game pirates before everyone downloaded everything, but when most of the busts were reported, they tended to be relatively small organisations run by tech savvy people.
    Iíve worked many cases in a past life involving counterfeit goods, including counterfeit watches, where the money led back to organised crime in parts of the world where they walk hand in hand with terrorism.

    These watches arenít thrown together in garden sheds, they need equipment, machinery, staff to put them together. The setup costs are not insignificant and they arenít being met with seed money from EU entrepreneurship funds.

    Make no mistake, if youíre buying counterfeit goods, in most cases I investigated and prosecuted, the people who gain are mightily unsavoury.

  36. #36
    I believe there's also fakes on gumtree.

  37. #37
    Master dice's Avatar
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    I wasn't aware the trend of virtue signalling had reached TZ-UK. If you trace anything far back enough, it will lead to some distasteful or downright outrageous sect of the World. If you pay tax you support the UK government, who had supported the Gaddafi regime, which resulted in the deaths of thousands, so ergo we're all what, scum? Ridiculous.

    OP was just making a silly musing on something which was in itself, trivial. There is a wider discussion we can have about the wider impact but given this is a watch forum I thought the topic he was trying to hit on was pretty clear.

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    Quote Originally Posted by walkerwek1958 View Post
    And your point is?...........

    My advice is based on dispassionate logic, the watch is in his hands, same as that beef steak is in my fridge, if I turned vegetarian tomorrow nothing would change that situation.

    Iíve reached an age where Iím past moralising, the OPís paid £100 for a fake watch and Iíve advised what could be a sensible way forward. Heís bought it now, heís paid his money.
    It's ridiculous to say that you should avoid fake products because of child labour or poor working conditions etc when there are similar stories with other luxury items.

    I thought my point was pretty clear. Avoid fake goods but don't try and pretend that genuine items don't have any impact.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wileeeeeey View Post
    If you buy an iPhone you support two out of the three of these anyway. Not an justification, just an observation.

    Explain please.

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldoakknives View Post
    While you're on your high horse Mick, how do you feel about people recommending shaving brushes with Badger hair in them?

    https://www.peta.org.uk/blog/pg-bans...uelty-exposed/
    Point number one is this has got nothing to do with money laundering and its consequences.

    Point number two is that the article you quote is right for a small part of the market.

    I use Simpson brushes who are by appointment to the Queen. Their brushes, like most others, come from protected sources that do not involve cruelty.

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by PSTW View Post
    Iíve worked many cases in a past life involving counterfeit goods, including counterfeit watches, where the money led back to organised crime in parts of the world where they walk hand in hand with terrorism.

    These watches arenít thrown together in garden sheds, they need equipment, machinery, staff to put them together. The setup costs are not insignificant and they arenít being met with seed money from EU entrepreneurship funds.

    Make no mistake, if youíre buying counterfeit goods, in most cases I investigated and prosecuted, the people who gain are mightily unsavoury.
    Thanks thatís an interesting insight.

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by dice View Post
    I wasn't aware the trend of virtue signalling had reached TZ-UK. If you trace anything far back enough, it will lead to some distasteful or downright outrageous sect of the World. If you pay tax you support the UK government, who had supported the Gaddafi regime, which resulted in the deaths of thousands, so ergo we're all what, scum? Ridiculous.

    OP was just making a silly musing on something which was in itself, trivial. There is a wider discussion we can have about the wider impact but given this is a watch forum I thought the topic he was trying to hit on was pretty clear.
    No, youíre absolutely right. It can all be totally excused. What was I thinking? Thereís no reason to have regard to anything except your own lot. Itís all such a lark.

    Thanks for setting me straight. A lesson I will never forget.

  43. #43
    Grand Master oldoakknives's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mick P View Post
    Point number one is this has got nothing to do with money laundering and its consequences.

    Point number two is that the article you quote is right for a small part of the market.

    I use Simpson brushes who are by appointment to the Queen. Their brushes, like most others, come from protected sources that do not involve cruelty.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mick P View Post
    I am surprised that you are amused about funding an industry that finances money laundering, drugs, child labour etc. It really is a repulsive industry and certainly not funny.
    Point number one is that buying shaving brushes made with badger hair funds an industry which has been shown to involve tremendous cruelty. Which is a repulsive industry and certainly not necessary.

    You attack someone else for not looking at the consequences of their purchase whilst doing the self same thing.



    Point number two.

    From Simpsons own website ...."Due to badgers being a protected species in North America and most of Europe, the largely successful appearance of quality synthetic bristle shaving brushes has now opened up an alternative & very functional product."
    And.."A synthetic shaving brush is ideal for those who are worried about the provenance of badger hair & those seeking a luxuriously soft shave with relatively little maintenance."

    So they even say synthetic brushes are a viable alternative. And if "Due to badgers being a protected species in North America and most of Europe.." where do you think the badger hair they use comes from?

    Also from Simpsons site, "Simpson also procures a High Mountain White Manchurian Badger, used in our Special & Limited Edition brushes only."

    Now Manchuria is in China I believe.

    From Peta's website. "PETA Asia eyewitnesses visited multiple badger farms across China, which exports badger-hair brushes to countries worldwide. On every farm, they documented hellish living conditions, including being confined to cramped wire cages and often suffering from severe, untreated injuries."
    https://support.peta.org/page/6750/a...1?locale=en-US

    So I'd like to know where exactly you think the. "protected sources that do not involve cruelty" actually are and how they operate. Because I don't think you have a clue about them.
    Courage is being scared to death but saddling up anyway.

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldoakknives View Post
    Point number one is that buying shaving brushes made with badger hair funds an industry which has been shown to involve tremendous cruelty. Which is a repulsive industry and certainly not necessary.

    You attack someone else for not looking at the consequences of their purchase whilst doing the self same thing.



    Point number two.

    From Simpsons own website ...."Due to badgers being a protected species in North America and most of Europe, the largely successful appearance of quality synthetic bristle shaving brushes has now opened up an alternative & very functional product."
    And.."A synthetic shaving brush is ideal for those who are worried about the provenance of badger hair & those seeking a luxuriously soft shave with relatively little maintenance."

    So they even say synthetic brushes are a viable alternative. And if "Due to badgers being a protected species in North America and most of Europe.." where do you think the badger hair they use comes from?

    Also from Simpsons site, "Simpson also procures a High Mountain White Manchurian Badger, used in our Special & Limited Edition brushes only."

    Now Manchuria is in China I believe.

    From Peta's website. "PETA Asia eyewitnesses visited multiple badger farms across China, which exports badger-hair brushes to countries worldwide. On every farm, they documented hellish living conditions, including being confined to cramped wire cages and often suffering from severe, untreated injuries."
    https://support.peta.org/page/6750/a...1?locale=en-US

    So I'd like to know where exactly you think the. "protected sources that do not involve cruelty" actually are and how they operate. Because I don't think you have a clue about them.


    Wonder if Mick P will let her majesty know this ....

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by wileeeeeey View Post
    If you buy an iPhone you support two out of the three of these anyway. Not an justification, just an observation.
    Still waiting for an explanation regarding the above. Would the reason for lack of explanation be that this statement cannot be substantiated?

  46. #46
    Master wileeeeeey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JeremyO View Post
    Still waiting for an explanation regarding the above. Would the reason for lack of explanation be that this statement cannot be substantiated?
    https://www.theguardian.com/technolo...-labour-supply

    All of 5 seconds to Google. There you go.

  47. #47
    Grand Master oldoakknives's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buster73 View Post
    Wonder if Mick P will let her majesty know this ....
    Probably next time they meet.
    Courage is being scared to death but saddling up anyway.

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by wileeeeeey View Post
    https://www.theguardian.com/technolo...-labour-supply

    All of 5 seconds to Google. There you go.
    Thanks for that, I imagine that is one of the risks of subcontracting to these countries and could apply to many manufacturers.

    It is good to see that steps are being taken to try to eradicate some of these practices.
    Last edited by JeremyO; 13th October 2019 at 19:55.

  49. #49
    Grand Master oldoakknives's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JeremyO View Post
    Still waiting for an explanation regarding the above. Would the reason for lack of explanation be that this statement cannot be substantiated?
    No.
    Courage is being scared to death but saddling up anyway.

  50. #50
    Master wileeeeeey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JeremyO View Post
    And, from that article, it looks as if Apple are doing what they can to eradicate such practices.
    They are doing what they can to stop factory workers kill themselves, too. Suicide nets were installed. Amazing.

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