I did a search and didn’t come across any recent threads on this topic, so here goes.
I’m 50 and cycle to work most day (14 miles return). My commute in outer London is often quicker by bike than car given usual rush hour congestion. Plus I found a nice off road route for most of the journey which is suitable for bikes and electric bikes.
However in the winter when I’m feeling a bit lazier, some extra occasional oomph may be nice on those dark cold days.
Due to changes to the scheme, work is soon to remove the £1000 cycle to work scheme limit as this was only previously offered to companies with a credit license.
So, I’m think of some sort of urban/hybrid flat bar electric bike up to £2k.
It would be good to hear about your experiences of electric cycling in general, and any particular specification or bike that is particularly recommended.
The Bike Radar Forum may prove a little more useful?
https://forum.bikeradar.com/viewtopic.php?f=40042&t=13106591&p=20550492&hilit=electric+bikes#p20550 492
I'm also considering one due to painful joints but am hoping to hold off until around this time next year...
Orbea have a good range and although a little over budget something like this gravel bike could cover both your on and off road requirements..
https://www.leisurelakesbikes.com/30...angeblack.aspx
All the best.
Steve.
the new Boardman hybrid electric with the fazua motor is getting good reviews, seems decent spec and at £2.2k looks good for what it comes with and their bikes are always beautifully finished with fully smoothed welds and nice components for the money
Coincidently, my wife picked her electric bike up from the bike store around the corner where I live, two hours ago. A Dutch brand, I don't think that it's for sale in the UK. And I'm interested in buying one myself.
Electric bikes are really 'big' here, where I live. Lots of kids come to school every morning on an electric bike. E.g. a boy in my son's class does a 55 mins trip (single trip) every morning on his bike, same distance and time back every late afternoon. 18kms, but he has to climb a few nasty hills. On his electric bike, things are a lot easier.
Recent Dutch statistics show that front wheel-powered bikes are more prone to accidents than mid-engined and rear-engined bikes. Something to do with the power vs steering characteristics perhaps?
My interest in buying an electric bike was fueled last Summer after reading a German article that mentioned the fact that people riding an electric-powered bike, chose to ride a bike significantly more often. In other words: they make more mileage on an electric bike than on a 'normal' road bike. And that's better for one's health!
I just couldn’t bring myself to spend the kind of money a lot of these e-bikes are asking, so I converted one of my mountain bikes using a mid-drive Tongshen TSDZ2 motor, and made up my own battery pack from some 5S RC modelling batteries.
It’s a pedal assist setup rather than an ‘electric bike/moped’, it’s a nominal 250w so road legal and makes me feel like I’ve got bionic legs! Hills are no longer an issue.
It’s a 36v 5.2Ah battery pack, and I get an easy 15 miles of pedal assist without stressing the battery.
Cost was about £400. I’ve got the batteries in a small frame bag now rather than under the seat, and I’ve changed the crank chain wheel for something a bit smaller to suit the off road riding I do.
Sorry for the links, I’ll embed the pictures later when I’m on a tablet/computer.
E-bike Conversion by iaintookey, on Flickr
E-bike Conversion by iaintookey, on Flickr
E-bike Conversion by iaintookey, on Flickr
E-bike Conversion by iaintookey, on Flickr
E-bike Conversion by iaintookey, on Flickr
E-bike Conversion by iaintookey, on Flickr
Last edited by Tooks; 10th October 2019 at 16:56.
Mrs Goat and myself bought 2 new ones earlier this year
Made by Cube, they are Bosch CX performance ones.
Very pleased-
Currently under warranty and assistance restricted to 15,5 mph as all the legal ones are...may derestrict later- very easy to do.
Getting 60-80 miles easily on a full charge
We chose MTB based machines as we live 5m from the open new forest and use them half and half road/off-road
We have pads of friends with them, none have regrets
Main difference is that we USE these whereas our old bikes were getting less and less used,
Nothing to do 20miles for a run out for a beer these days
Last edited by GOAT; 9th October 2019 at 16:22.
That's exactly the outcome of the German studyOriginally Posted by GOAT
Used one in Austria earlier this year for some gravel trails, used the Bosh mid drive stuff. Day 1 40k ride and a ~1k elevation gain, left 2 bars on my battery and three on my wife’s.
Day 2 ~40k flat ride and both lost a bar.
Overall I’d have one if my commute could justify it.
If it’s a pure commute bike I’d look at something more sit up style like the “Dutch” bikes to aid visibility in traffic plus there’s some anecdotal evidence of car drivers giving more space to cyclists on them.
I wish I had a Mrs Goat. Although slim and pretty fit it's the proverbial fish on a bike scenario with my Mrs, clueless when it comes to anything without four wheels. Her bike is the simplest form of step thru' and she still fuggs it up
Anyway, why not have a look on eflay and use the 'Nearest me' search facility.
If you get a chance post everything you have about this. You wont bore me.
Bosch CX in the crank, sit up bike. For Menno, I also have some Clarijs panniers.
I try to commute weather permitting, despite a couple of stiff climbs both ways. About 22 miles in total, in about 45 to 55 minutes (morning ride is quicker as worst climb is taken the right way and at 6-6:30 there is no traffic.
I am 60 and a touch under 15 stones. I would never had considered riding to this place of work on a non e-bike.
'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.
Clarijs panniers: ha! It won't come more 'Dutch' than that. Honestly. Clarijs is a household name over here and I've thought that these bags are called panniers! Household name as in: "I'll put my coat in the Clarijs when it gets hot!"
Menno
Not surprised. They are brilliant. And cycling without a rucksack on your back makes a massive difference.
'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.
I have a VanMoof Electrified X2, brilliant concept, moderately well executed, but too rich for your budget!
I've had 4 - each new one being significantly better than the other.
First one was a Eco Expedition made by a bespoke company. Not bad, did the job but I wanted something better. Then got a Haibike sduro FS. Brilliant. Had it 3 years. Bought a Focus Jam2 last year but then got a Specialized Turbo Levo in August - that thing is awesome. Appreciate above budget though. I loved my Haibike as well.
Cube do some nice ones around your budget and I would also say you'll get good deals on 2019 models now. As an example. there's a cracking Focus Hard Tail MTB at £1999 at Rutland although I see you mention Hybrid so may not be right for you. But now is definitely good to look but not all places will do cycle scheme on sale bikes.
Another Dutch brand!
For what I've seen and noticed about the UK landscape, I think that an electric bike is the best way to explore the country! Germany has a 'culture' of Speed Pedalecs: those 'fast lane' brothers and sisters on bikes reaching up to 45 kms/hr. They're allowed here, but one needs to be 16 y/old, with a moped drivers license, a helmet and a license plate. Big German names are Stromer and Riese & Müller.
One of my colleagues has one. She must have bought one of the first in the country. She owns it for at least 5 or 6 yrs now. Doing, a 60 km roundtrip daily. The electric motor is in the rear wheel. She has done more than 35,000 km with her bike. Currently on her 2nd motor and 3rd battery. She even has summer and winter tyres for her bike.
For more background info: our local bike shop has a nice website with interesting information. Use Google translate for -what I think- seriously good info about the 'dilemma' you face when buying an electric bike. They only sell high-end bikes but those bikes are often used for more-than-serious work... The experience found there is mentioned in the article.
https://www.bongersbikes.nl/e-bike-dilemma/
I have got a vested interest
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=r6ZlAk...fauxfullscreen
Nice vid. Don’t see a kit for retro fit on the website. Is it an option? I’m in the market right now.
No, they only sell complete bikes
Bought an electric bike in May 2018 after a 40 year bad back finally put a halt to normal cycling.
Since than I have put 2500 miles on my Focus Aventura Pro 2 and absolutely love it. It was about £2200 and has a Bosch CX motor giving out 73nm whatever that means.
It's very hilly in these parts but regularly ride 30 to 40 mile trips climbing over 2400 feet. My range is about 60 to 70 miles and the battery is as good as day 1. Recommend a 500 watt battery.
Have fun.
scooter
The Ribble one is getting a good press if you like road bikes
Anything decent under a grand secondhand?
I’ve updated my post with embedded pictures, I’m quite pleased with how it’s turned out.
It rides very similar to the Bosch equipped factory bikes, it’s why I went with the Tongsheng system as opposed to the popular Bafang 02. The latter can power the bike without any rider input, but I wanted something that assisted me, when I pedal the motor pedals a bit too.
It’s quite a laugh off road, and makes anything slightly uphill fun again rather than laborious. I’ve just got the wrong side of 50, but this makes me ride like I’m 25 again. Well, at least in my head...
I’ll get some pics up of the new chain ring and battery bag arrangement if you’re interested. I’ve also fully waterproofed the connections now, ready for the winter muck.
I’ve read on some e-bike forums that there’s a weakness in the Tongsheng main drive gear, it’s plastic and can wear out or break if you’re clumsy, at least on early versions of the motor. I’ve got a replacement metal gear coming in from China, and I’ll have that handy should the original break.
It’s given an old bike that was gathering dust in the shed a new lease of life, and renewed my interest in cycling, both of which can only be a good thing. I’m under pressure to convert the other old bike in the shed now too, so Mrs Tooks can ride it...
Last edited by Tooks; 10th October 2019 at 17:08.
I have an Orbea Gain and would highly recommend it. I'm unfit and overweight and it makes my hilly 12 mile commute enjoyable. I still have to put some effort in so get plenty of exercise in the process and the assistance can be reduced as required. I've added full mudguards and wider tyres to make it more commuter friendly. It's very stealthy and doesn't look like an ebike but the range isn't great, I can't quite get 2 days out of a charge so do have to charge after every ride. (I found out the hard way running out of juice on my last big hill!)
Worth checking the orbea website as I managed to get a test ride at my local bike shop before buying.
My Nephew is sponsored by Orbea, they gave him some electric mountain bikes he really rates them.
It’s 18 miles to work. I am overweight, asthmatic, unfit and a few months short of 60. I usually rode a Thorn eXp expedition bike. Think touring bike but heavier. Either that or a Moulton TSR30 or Moulton APB LR. It would take me 2-2.25 hours to get to work, by which time I was frazzled, so I decided on an electric bike. Never having ridden one and with no shops locally that sold them I ended up with an AARC Moulton TSR8. I added 2. Extra batteries and 2 extra chargers. The batteries are Bosch and I understand they are the same as used on rechargeable lawn mowers. Allegedly go for 30 miles. I get just over 10, but then the bike is usually well loaded with me, a couple of small panniers, a rack pack, and sometimes towing a trailer too. The price would probably tip over £3.5k now, so would be over the budget.
Riding an electric bike was an absolute revelation. I arrived at work on the dregs of the second battery in 1 hour and ten minutes feeling ready to go., rather than like death warmed up. I would average 12 mph rather than 8mph on the non-assisted bikes. There is a downside though. If you were fit enough to ride a non-assisted bike before, then after a few months of an electric bike it is really hard to go back. My fitness and strength, what there was of it, definitely declined. I struggled really badly with hills that I had only struggled slightly with before. I have to admit that this wind-blasted isle that I live on makes it difficult to get out on a bike and I find riding my indoor bike, a converted Tern, soul-destroying. Your mileage may vary, but riding an e-bike is definitely a joy, but like your car it might make you lazy.
I've had a little chat on hukd about e bikes. As above the Tongsheng and bafang seem to be the DIY kits to go for and Bosch motors if going for a ready built.
Bosch are great but no way of fixing the motors if anything goes wrong. If in warranty Bosch are supposed to be pretty good at sorting it for you. Out of warranty and if anything goes wrong with the motor it's £650 for a new one and you also have to send them your old one.
The DIY kits you can fix yourself and with a big following there is plenty of knowledge out there to help you. Only trouble is these kits I think are 500W motors which makes them illegal in the UK. 250watts is the maximum in the UK. Apparently Bosch motors get round this with some kind of Boost feature but there rated at 250Watts.
I think the law says 250w constant/nominal output, but I understand that allows for them to provide up to 750w peak and still be legal.
The max speed limit is the other key criteria, which all the factory bikes and the 250w rated Tongsheng and Bafang conversion kits also adhere to.
As somebody has already said though, custom firmware can change not only that but also the delivery characteristics.
The kit I got is rated 250w and it doesn’t feel any more powerful than the Bosch powered factory bikes I’ve test ridden.
500W is Bradley Wiggins territory!
But the speed restriction would let you down on anything other than a pretty steep hill.
All types are allowed here. 600W monsters are readily available. Max speed for a normal electric bike is set on 25 km/hr. You can go faster, but without electrical support. The 600W power pack only provides more distance between charging.
The speed-pedalecs on Dutch roads are limited to 45 km/hr, a moped drivers license, a license plate on the bike and a helmet (mandatory for speed pedalecs - all other bikes here are free of the rule to wear a helmet).
Having said that.. it is pretty easy to tune your electric bike! One can even buy special sets via the internet! It's not allowed, but all youngsters I know with an electric bike have a tuned version of the original bike...
The incandescent bulbs I house in my house until recently were 60W.
Surely the equivalent of the power of 10 incandescent bulbs cannot drive a monster powered bike.
In a cycling context, 600 watts is a big number. Equates to 0.8 horsepower.
This is pro-cyclist territory and some.
When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........
I converted Mrs V.'s bike for her birthday last July.
Let's say that she wasn't pleased. At all. Her perception of the electric bike was something that little old ladies use, at 47 she wasn't chuffed with the idea of that moniker.
I used a Bafang 350W rear wheel conversion kit off ebay. I'm an electronics eng & I work with Li-ion batteries, so I built a 36V 8.8Ah pack out of some spare cells. I had to build a spot welder to make it, but that's another story.
All in the conversion cost about £500. If I had to buy a battery it would have been another £150 odd. All of this on a steel framed ladies mountain bike that couldn't have cost more than £100 new. Crazy, but she likes the bike.
I've known her for 18 years. In all that time I've managed to get her to actually use her bike twice.
Since the conversion, (which she initially refused to try) she has used the bike to get to work every single dry day and occasionally badgers me to go for a leisure ride. Her bike is superb fun, you really do feel bionic.
Right, history out of the way here's some useful stuff...
Legal limit is 250W. If you're buying a pre-made bike, look for a bike with an "off road" switch. With it set to on road, you're limited to 250W, flip to "off road" to access the rest.
350W is fine. It's a continuous rating, peak power is consumption is higher. The LCD has a power gauge, and when I borrow the bike, I often see 500W being consumed (on hills or accelerating). I think 250W would be a bit weedy.
There are two types, each with advantages and disadvantages.
The rear wheel motor has a fixed gearing so will either struggle at low speeds and on hills or will run out of rpm at speed (legal limit is 18mph, the bikes have an adjustable limiter).
The chainset motors don't suffer from this as they use the bike's chain and gearing. However because of this they are less efficient and therefore the range per Wh isnt as good.
You pay's yer money and makes yer choices.
I'll say. When I took on the services of a coach 10 years ago it took me 2 years of hard training to improve my one hour sustained power output (FTP) from about 300W to 335W. I'd need a boost of less than 100W to give me a similar FTP to Chris Froome (4 x winner of the Tour de France)
These days the pro cyclists have their bikes checked for hidden electric motors. The first pro cyclist to be caught & convicted of motorised doping occurred in 2016
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/20...-championships
I use Mrs Smith's to wizz up and back from the shops. Walking bores me although we do a bit of 'power-walking' round our 2 mile parkway occasionally.
It's got the old style thumb throttle and travels happily at 18-20 mph even with my 200lb fat arse on it. You definitely need a bell or hooter as the zombie dog walkers regard all paths as their own even though they are wide and there to be shared with bikes.
I also found this: a direct drive engine without any gears inside. Made with the guys who came up with the Santos bike. Santos bikes are built for riding the most remote paths on the planet. This after-market e-motor should fit their philosophy. Big advantage: no display. That's often the source of many problems.
Have you seen the price?
There's also a Cytronex at just under a grand
And some others that use a self-contained friction drive to bear down on the tyre like Rubbee
Last edited by Harry Smith; 14th October 2019 at 16:36.
Made some minor changes to mine over the weekend, tweaking the front gear ratio to make it more off road friendly, and moving the battery pack to the frame so it’s better balanced.
I did a muddy 10 miler yesterday, the last pic is the bike mid-ride, it was sticky and energy sapping and the batteries were pretty low when I got back. I did have it on max assistance all the way around the route, so either I need to get fitter and/or make another battery pack up to shove in my back pack for longer rides.
It was fun though, I was smiling in torrential rain, so that says something, and the waterproofing seems up to the job as well as I rode through water deeper than the motor...
RM Switch e-bike Conversion by iaintookey, on Flickr
RM Switch e-bike Conversion by iaintookey, on Flickr
RM Switch e-bike Conversion by iaintookey, on Flickr
That friction-drive works like the '60s French Solex. Were they ever sold in the UK. The big disadvantage of a friction-drive is the fact that your bikes tyre will go 'off' faster than Lewis Hamilton's F1 tyres in Japan. The e-motor I showed above has no internal parts like cogs and gears. Which makes it less prone to wear.
The bike I have my eyes on is a Koga Miyata. That's about the best Dutch bike builders can produce in larger quantities. Bulletproof product and reputation. Above that, there are only bespoke and one-offs. That bike in the e-version is 3400 euros and comes with a 5yr warranty. PX prices in a few years will be good - as with Koga bikes.
his
My current bike is 18 months old. Not an e-bike. With this aftermarket e-motor and having it installed on my current bike, it can be cheaper to buy that motor than buying a new e-bike.
This is mine: https://www.bicycling.com/bikes-gear...se-neo-review/
Out of original posters requested price range but the 2020 models are already announced so some 2019 bargains maybe around.
Amazing thing - will lug a very large chap over 70km and a 1000m elevation with one bar left.
These things are quite heavy - going up hill is much quicker than a normal bike but they are slower on the flat as there is no assist over 25km/h.
As a result the exercise is smoother.
Looks like a good bike!
I’ve been tempted by a ‘gravel bike’ before, saw one in the Lakes last week (non electric) and he was flying.
Here's mine, bought in January this year.
As a fairly fit and seasoned cyclist I was a bit sceptical as to whether I needed any assistance tbh. Yes I'm knocking on a bit (54) and don't have the time to get out as often as I'd like. However after borrowing a Trek Powerfly from my local bike shop for a day, I was totally converted. These things are an absolute hoot! You still get a damn good workout with the advantage of going further and faster than a traditional MTB. I have a 30 mile off road route which takes me less than a couple of hours to do, mainly in the lowest power mode.
Personally I view the assistance as a "get out of jail free card". Stupidly strong headwind - no problem, leg sapping hill towards the end of a ride - it's as easy as you want it to be. The big thing I've found is I'm making time to get out more, as it's just so much fun! Plus I'm discovering much more of my local area in the process.
If anyone's sitting on the fence about an electric bike, just try one. Oh and if you're looking to a MTB get full suspension, you'll be going so much faster your arse will thank you.
Cheers,
Gary
i must say Tooks that yours is probably one of the best looking home-conversions I've seen. I was very close to buying a kit for my old Rockhopper until I stumbled across a really filthy but stupidly cheap EBCO MH7 with only a couple hundred miles on it. Extra battery, bigger sprocket, Reverb and a Badass box and it still owes me less than a grand. I wish I could do pics
Thank you! I still lust over some of the factory Bosch bikes, but they’re so expensive and hard to justify.i must say Tooks that yours is probably one of the best looking home-conversions I've seen. I was very close to buying a kit for my old Rockhopper until I stumbled across a really filthy but stupidly cheap EBCO MH7 with only a couple hundred miles on it. Extra battery, bigger sprocket, Reverb and a Badass box and it still owes me less than a grand. I wish I could do pics
I’ve just googled your bike, I think you did alright, there’s £500+ worth of battery and motor there.
Yes definitely one of my better buys. They stopped making that model but I was talking to them at the Bike show last month and I'm sure he said the frame was made in same place as Cube. They sell Corratec now.
Well, I went to my local bike shops over the weekend, and caved in to one of their excellently priced ‘last year’ bikes...
It’s a Focus Jam2 6.7, running the Shimano Steps E8000 motor, which I’d never tried before. I really like it, and it’s pretty quiet as well.
This has an approx 10Ah battery, which is pretty small in comparison to some of the Bosch systems, but should be good for 20-30 miles of pedal assistance dependent on how much I ask for etc.
I’m not keen on the massive tyres, and I’ll probably change them for some slimmer models to bite through the mud around here in the winter, but I’ll give it a proper ride out first.
It’s interesting comparing the motor to my home brew Tongsheng, I think I actually prefer the latter in terms of feel and torque available, but like the lower noise and greater efficiency of the Shimano setup. At least for now anyway! So, yes, now I have two e-bikes somehow....
Focus Jam2 6.7 by iaintookey, on Flickr
Last edited by Tooks; 14th November 2019 at 21:37.
Great looking bike. I would like an e-bike but prices are just crazy so looking at converting an old carrera i have sitting around. Surprising to see you prefer the Tongsheng, can i ask where you ordered it from? From what i see the tongsheng and bafang are the preferred units. I have no experience with these or ordering from Chinese sites so any help will be much appropriated.
You mean the Tongsheng unit?
I ordered it from PSWPower, they have a German warehouse so they’re delivered from there with no extra duty to pay. Took about 3 days to get to me.
They also sell battery packs, although I made up my own from some RC packs as I mentioned earlier.
I deliberated over the Tongsheng or Bafang unit, but went for the Tongsheng as it has torque sensing and you don’t need brake cut off switches or the like, when you stop pedalling the motor stops assisting too.
The Shimano E8000 is a good setup, don’t get me wrong, but it feels slightly different to the Tongsheng. The main difference is that the Shimano in boost mode leaves the power in for what feels like a quarter pedal stroke, which is useful for powering through deep rutted puddles etc when you want your pedals level, but does feel strange at first. In Trail mode, it doesn’t exhibit that quirk.
The E8000 also has quite an abrupt pedal cut off at 14.8mph, the Tongsheng feels much softer and more natural.
You can connect to the E8000 via a Bluetooth app and customise the power outputs/assistance in different modes, so I’m still fiddling with those a bit.
In reality, I enjoy riding both of them!
Last edited by Tooks; 19th November 2019 at 13:23.
I have hydraulic brakes so was wondering how to get around the brake lever thing with the bafang. The tongsheng sounds the better choice, does it produce more power the harder you pedal or the same no matter how hard you pedal? Also what speeds do get from the 250w? Does it assist you upto the legal 15mph and cut off?
Would i be looking for this type of set up http://www.pswpower.com/ven.php?cargo.2017-2s-gaym http://www.pswpower.com/ven.php?cargo.2017-bv-s42x
Yes, that’s the kit you’d be looking at. Check your bottom bracket is 68-73mm, and it will be an easy fit.
I’ve got that exact motor, mine came with the XH-18 controller.
You can vary the assistance level from off to Level 1 through Level 4, the higher the number the more assistance you get. I usually have it in 1 or 2 for level riding and 3 or 4 for the hills.
It does sense torque being applied though, and try’s to align with your input.
There’s also a walk mode for when your pushing the bike up steep trail that you can’t ride.
The Tongsheng assists slightly beyond 15mph according to the speedo, but as I say it feels like a very soft cut off, and I think it may assist just beyond that figure a bit or my Garmin speedo is setup incorrectly.
In the US, the legal assist speed limit is 32kph or just over 19mph which feels much more sensible than ours, maybe they’re set up for that market.
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote
