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Thread: A Grand Seiko question

  1. #1
    Master
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    A Grand Seiko question

    I've been offered a new Grand Seiko Snowflake SBGA407G at a very good price by a seller I trust. In photos and in the flesh, the level & detail of the finish look wonderful and I know its accuracy will be outstanding. I've never had a Grand Seiko before and this is an obvious buy. But I'm hesitating.

    On the wrist, although just time, seconds, date & power reserve, the Grand Seiko is as high as my Zenith day, date, month, running seconds, moon phase, 12-hour, 30-minute & seconds chronograph: 13mm.

    So, now the question. Why is it and other Grand Seikos so high?


  2. #2
    Master reggie747's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tinker View Post
    Why is it and other Grand Seikos so high?
    To be able to squeeze all the goodness inside it.

  3. #3
    Probably too much saki 😂

  4. #4
    Craftsman ajdh's Avatar
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    I have two and the quality is outstanding. The biggest drawback is the lack of service facilities. Unless you live in the USA or Japan, they have to be shipped back to Japan for major work.

  5. #5
    Master cirotti's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajdh View Post
    I have two and the quality is outstanding. The biggest drawback is the lack of service facilities. Unless you live in the USA or Japan, they have to be shipped back to Japan for major work.
    Automatic, Hi-beat and spring drive are serviced in UK...chronos go back to Japan...prices between 350-500.
    Turnaround 4-5 weeks.

  6. #6
    Craftsman ajdh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cirotti View Post
    Automatic, Hi-beat and spring drive are serviced in UK...chronos go back to Japan...prices between 350-500.
    Turnaround 4-5 weeks.
    Thanks for that. I'd been contemplating selling my Hi-beat but might keep it now.


  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by cirotti View Post
    Automatic, Hi-beat and spring drive are serviced in UK...chronos go back to Japan...prices between 350-500.
    Turnaround 4-5 weeks.
    Any idea if case refinishing is done in the UK as well? Or is it only movement servicing they do?

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajdh View Post
    Off topic, but those dials are stunning. So individual and detailed. They really look like something special.

  9. #9
    Grand Master ryanb741's Avatar
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    It's also part styling that the case is so thick. I have a SBK005 and it is pretty thin which suits the design

    Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Skip View Post
    Any idea if case refinishing is done in the UK as well? Or is it only movement servicing they do?
    Back in Japan (at least it was so last year).

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by hughtrimble View Post
    Back in Japan (at least it was so last year).
    I believe standard refinishing can be done in UK, but back to Japan if you want Zaratsu, but sure somebody will be along in a minute to correct me if I’m wrong.

  12. #12
    Master mindforge's Avatar
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    What's wrong with it going back to Japan? It is where they were made after all. My understanding is that it goes back to the same watchmaker who originally assembled it! I'd rather have that than someone in the UK. It's not as if the journey time is the time consuming part anyway.

  13. #13
    Master reggie747's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mindforge View Post
    What's wrong with it going back to Japan? It is where they were made after all. My understanding is that it goes back to the same watchmaker who originally assembled it! I'd rather have that than someone in the UK. It's not as if the journey time is the time consuming part anyway.
    Nothing except probably the added cost and logistics of it I guess.

  14. #14
    Finn your point of view you drop it off at an AD or boutique, then collect it on its return.

    If 5-6 weeks is to be believed then the turn around, including transit, is as fast as any other UK servicing centre.

    Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by klunk View Post
    I believe standard refinishing can be done in UK, but back to Japan if you want Zaratsu, but sure somebody will be along in a minute to correct me if I’m wrong.
    I thought every case was zaratsu? Admittedly, I've only ever asked about Spring Drives, so possibly there are different procedures for different price segments.

  16. #16
    Craftsman ajdh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiny View Post
    Off topic, but those dials are stunning. So individual and detailed. They really look like something special.
    Thanks.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by ryanb741 View Post
    It's also part styling that the case is so thick. I have a SBK005 and it is pretty thin which suits the design

    Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk
    Love this one, really cool.


    Sent from my iPhone using TZ-UK mobile app

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by hughtrimble View Post
    I thought every case was zaratsu? Admittedly, I've only ever asked about Spring Drives, so possibly there are different procedures for different price segments.
    Yes I believe they are, but I believe that a standard non Zaratsu refinish can be done by Seiko in the U.K., but has to be sent to Japan for Zaratsu polish. I believe I read this a year or two ago, but maybe this has changed.

  19. #19
    The weight is reduced due to the snowflake being Titanium - i think that will offset any concerns on height. The Snowflake is iconic, for me the watch that defines modern GS the best. If you're going to try one, this should be it.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by ryanb741 View Post
    It's also part styling that the case is so thick. I have a SBK005 and it is pretty thin which suits the design

    Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk
    I don’t think it is an intentional part of the styling, for most of them. If you look at the 9F quartz versions of watches that have similar case shapes to automatics, the quartz versions are much thinner, and look much better for it on the wrist.

    You can also look at some of the pleasantly thin historical Grand Seikos that are the basis for their design language. They show how the case shapes should really wear. For the much thicker modern autos it’s an Achilles heel, with a bulky underside that raises the case off the wrist. Presumably it’s a result of movements that are solid but thicker then you might wish, together with the added thickness of the rotor on autos, and exhibition case backs on top of that. As with a Rolex, I’d rather have a watch that’s the right proportions than have an exhibition case back, given the choice.

    It’s a problem, and one they’ve recognised and are trying to address. The model posted above, the SBGK005 solves this simply by being manual wound. They’re not the only brand with this problem, Omega has also had a thickness issue on some models, but they’ve improved, and their current Aqua Terra wears just right as a result.

  21. #21
    Watches and brands don’t have thickness issues. It is the wearer who has thickness issues. Or size issues.

  22. #22
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    I asked about servicing at the boutique on Saturday.

    Servicing is indeed carried out in the UK for everything except Chronographs. New watches come with a 3 year warranty and a free service in the first 5 years.

    Case/bracelet refinishing requires return to Japan (I didn’t ask whether this was all refinishing tasks). Expect not to see your watch for 6 months - charge for the titanium would be £400 for this privilege.

    Anybody know how sensitive the titanium is to daily abuse? I’ve heard it scratches more easily, but how much more?

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by RAJEN View Post
    Watches and brands don’t have thickness issues. It is the wearer who has thickness issues. Or size issues.
    Sorry RAJEN, I don't agree. The watches we're discussing here try hard to hide their thickness, but it can literally lift the case off the wrist, leaving a gap that wan't there on the original Grand Seiko of the 60s. It simply isn't the intention of the design language, it's a unintended problem. It's caused by movements, rotors and display backs that are too thick. Omega had the same problem with the older Aqua Terras, such as the top heavy Skyfall. They've now solved this, and they did that because they know perfectly well that the issue wasn't the wearer or their taste, it was the watch. I know you love to defend the honour of large watch wearers at any opportunity, and that's fine, but this isn't about a preference for large thick watches or smaller ones, it's about a design that could do with improving.

  24. #24
    Grand Master Der Amf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Itsguy View Post
    The watches we're discussing here try hard to hide their thickness, but it can literally lift the case off the wrist, leaving a gap that wan't there on the original Grand Seiko of the 60s. It simply isn't the intention of the design language, it's a unintended problem. It's caused by movements, rotors and display backs that are too thick.
    When Grand Seiko reissued one mid-60s model recently (the Self-dater, I think?) they had to do it as a quartz as none of the modern mechanical movements had a hope of fitting into the space

  25. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Itsguy View Post
    Sorry RAJEN, I don't agree. The watches we're discussing here try hard to hide their thickness, but it can literally lift the case off the wrist, leaving a gap that wan't there on the original Grand Seiko of the 60s. It simply isn't the intention of the design language, it's a unintended problem. It's caused by movements, rotors and display backs that are too thick. Omega had the same problem with the older Aqua Terras, such as the top heavy Skyfall. They've now solved this, and they did that because they know perfectly well that the issue wasn't the wearer or their taste, it was the watch. I know you love to defend the honour of large watch wearers at any opportunity, and that's fine, but this isn't about a preference for large thick watches or smaller ones, it's about a design that could do with improving.
    I am just kidding:-)

  26. #26
    Master Strnglwhank's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhilT View Post
    Anybody know how sensitive the titanium is to daily abuse? I’ve heard it scratches more easily, but how much more?
    GS use grade 5 titanium which is way better than the grade 2 used by Breitling which scratches very easily.

    I tried a snowflake on at the boutique recently (along with some others) & whilst I liked it I didn't love it & on this occasion I don't think the titanium works. I much preferred the SBGA293 (a different style altogether) which seemed much better proportioned than the hi beats.

    Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using Tapatalk

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Der Amf View Post
    When Grand Seiko reissued one mid-60s model recently (the Self-dater, I think?) they had to do it as a quartz as none of the modern mechanical movements had a hope of fitting into the space
    Even then it's nowhere near as thin as the original, which has beautiful proportions. Making thin watches seems to be a lost art - or has become a very expensive one.

    Quote Originally Posted by RAJEN View Post
    I am just kidding:-)
    Oh sorry! It's been a long day and it's only half way through. My sense of humour went missing by about 10.30am.

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