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Thread: BMW 440i or similar, advice sought.

  1. #1

    BMW 440i or similar, advice sought.

    Another what car thread I’m afraid. I’m usually pretty decisive on what to get next, but for some reason am struggling this time.

    I currently have an e93 M3 which I love, however a new job means I’m driving long distances on mainly motorways and it’s not really the car for the job. This is not least because there’s no torque/power below 5000 rpm, and even driving slowly I’m filling up every 270 or so miles.

    Looking to the collective’s experience to see if there are better options? Needs 4 seats, petrol engine, reasonable torque and power, and to not be boring! Budget up to around 35k ish. I’m considering a 440i coupe or convertible, or maybe an Alfa guilia Veloce, but would appreciate thoughts or experience of viable options. Thanks.

  2. #2
    My son has just bought another newer Audi S3 and it's, in my option, the the best all rounder out there.
    Decent sized, 4 doors, 310bhp which if driven carefully returns low 30s.
    Its party piece is the launch control.....holy hell
    Last edited by Franky Four Fingers; 6th October 2019 at 07:26.

  3. #3
    Master
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    F80 M3 owner here and you definitely won’t be bored, 35k should get you into something decent and 30 mpg obtainable on a run. In saying that, a friend has just bought a new 440i convertible and loves it but he did admit he would have preferred a M4.

  4. #4
    Master IAmATeaf's Avatar
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    I’ve got an older 335i and I can get around 350 miles from a tank if I drive carefully.

    Things I like, and I’m assuming the 440i will be very similar, the engine, the 8 speed zf gearbox and the seats, they are so comfortable. Things I don’t like, it’s not that quiet on the motorways, the inside squeaks and rattles even though the dealer fixed them and until recently I hated the steering as it was always twitchy but it went in last Thursday and they did some work on it under a recall and now it’s fantastic. I’ve also found that for some reason it also seems to pick up more parking dings, no idea if the panels are thin or if people just are careless.

  5. #5
    Grand Master GraniteQuarry's Avatar
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    Always good deals on Audi S4. And £500 remap gives RS4 grunt

  6. #6
    Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Franky Four Fingers View Post
    My son said just bought another newer Audi S3 and it's, in my option, the the best all rounder out there.
    Decent sized, 4 doors, 310bhp which if driven carefully returns low 30s.
    Its party piece is the launch control.....holy hell
    They do certainly accelerate well but the ride is pretty crashy if your roads aren’t great. The roads are pretty dire round here though and my mate is kind of sick of his for this reason. We go out a couple of times a week and he drives his van 9/10 times sighting the ride of his S3 as the reason. It does have the bigger option rims though but I can certainly feel what he means by it being harsh.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by jameswrx View Post
    They do certainly accelerate well but the ride is pretty crashy if your roads aren’t great. The roads are pretty dire round here though and my mate is kind of sick of his for this reason. We go out a couple of times a week and he drives his van 9/10 times sighting the ride of his S3 as the reason. It does have the bigger option rims though but I can certainly feel what he means by it being harsh.
    Yes I would agree that it's a bit harsh on certain roads however this one is better than his 65 plate.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by bobdog View Post
    F80 M3 owner here and you definitely won’t be bored, 35k should get you into something decent and 30 mpg obtainable on a run. In saying that, a friend has just bought a new 440i convertible and loves it but he did admit he would have preferred a M4.
    Love the look of the M3 but they look like they want to kill you in the vids I’ve watched, looks like it can be scary on acceleration. I saw a vid of a manual F80 M3 the other day (which is pretty rare) and the owner made some good points about it being way safer feeling under acceleration and when letting off during acceleration. It’s an LLF video (and he has the paddle shift one) quite interesting to see how different it drove. Mind you, that guy reckons his M3 with 700bhp is safer now than when it was standard as far as driveability goes.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by jameswrx View Post
    Love the look of the M3 but they look like they want to kill you in the vids I’ve watched, looks like it can be scary on acceleration. I saw a vid of a manual F80 M3 the other day (which is pretty rare) and the owner made some good points about it being way safer feeling under acceleration and when letting off during acceleration. It’s an LLF video (and he has the paddle shift one) quite interesting to see how different it drove. Mind you, that guy reckons his M3 with 700bhp is safer now than when it was standard as far as driveability goes.
    Yep, the early ones were very savage but they refined the software and they don’t try and kill you as much, mines the CP which they have tweaked the suspension and taken the wheels up to 20 inch. They are so good my son has just bought an identical one to mine apart from the colour. Was going to change mine but there is nothing that competes with it.

  10. #10
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    Not sure how soon, but there is a new 440i out in the not too distant future. The engine in that (and in the 340i out about now) gives 369bhp from what I have read. That's a pretty big uplift on the outgoing incarnation.

    If you want a current 440i, there are some good deals to be had on low mileage, high spec, pre-owned.

    Sadly, a distant memory but my 335i coupe was wonderful and had pretty well maximum torque available from only 1,500rpm. Torque felt like a diesel. It was the pre-CO2 concerns version with, by current standards, a rather primitive auto box so the maximum I ever got out of it was 34 mpg and average about 25 - and that wasn't hammering it.

  11. #11
    M4 is certainly an option. What do you get for real world tank range?

    I’d be interested in the Audi’s, but have had a few and the awful crashy suspension has put me off another, is the s3/4 any better?

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt8500 View Post
    M4 is certainly an option. What do you get for real world tank range?

    I’d be interested in the Audi’s, but have had a few and the awful crashy suspension has put me off another, is the s3/4 any better?
    The standard setup on an S3 is horrific. Can’t speak for S4 but I’d be surprised if it was any better. Steer well clear.

    I had an M140i and average mpg as per Fuelly was 26.9mpg over 20k miles, the 4 will be heavier so probably worse, if doing long distances I would consider something else. The seats are crap too.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt8500 View Post
    M4 is certainly an option. What do you get for real world tank range?

    I’d be interested in the Audi’s, but have had a few and the awful crashy suspension has put me off another, is the s3/4 any better?
    Couldn’t give a tank range as I tend to use it as a second car for thrashing around. I went from a E92 M3 to a F82 M4 to my present F80 M3CP and I would estimate the M4 got 25% better consumption than the E92 if that’s any help. The E92 was thirsty beyond belief and would regularly return about 16mpg whereas the M4 would return 21mpg, but this was using them both hard on the road not track.

  14. #14
    I had an M4cp, it was rubbish, what about an Ftype Jag

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Benji053 View Post
    The standard setup on an S3 is horrific. Can’t speak for S4 but I’d be surprised if it was any better. Steer well clear.

    I had an M140i and average mpg as per Fuelly was 26.9mpg over 20k miles, the 4 will be heavier so probably worse, if doing long distances I would consider something else. The seats are crap too.
    I've had 2 current model S3s and also an RS3
    Currently my wife has the M140i which I drive a fair bit.
    The S3 was the best allrounder for me.
    Build quality on the M140i is below the Audi's- though the engine on the 140 is a cracker and sounds great.

  16. #16
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    I'd advise against a Giulia Veloce. I have one and whilst it's good to drive, quality is seriously lacking, the engine has very little 'top end' and thirsty for a 4 pot turbo. You'll be disappionted coming from your M3.

    A 440i is high on my list as a replacement next year - but as mentioned, there is a new one on the way. It's a tough one though and the list changes daily!

    I drove an S3 recently. Quick but relatively dull.

  17. #17
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    I'm going to test drive the Mercedes C43 AMG next week, I think that should fit your requirements as well.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hood View Post
    I've had 2 current model S3s and also an RS3
    Currently my wife has the M140i which I drive a fair bit.
    The S3 was the best allrounder for me.
    Build quality on the M140i is below the Audi's- though the engine on the 140 is a cracker and sounds great.
    Agreed on build quality. I’d like to try an S3 with magnetic ride.

  19. #19
    Master Harry Smith's Avatar
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    All these "If driven carefully" comments make me smile. If you want to save money on fuel and want to go 500 mile between fill-ups don't drive/buy a road racer get a diesel/hybrid/electric or somesuch. I guarantee as soon as you start booting any performance car your consumption will deteriorate drastically whereas you can drive 'enthusiastically' in a powerful diesel and still get in the 40s-50s mpg.

  20. #20
    Diesels are just dull though, I’ve had a 330d and driven many 335/535d and they leave me totally cold.

    What I want is a car I can drive sensibly on the motorway and get a decent tank range, but still have fun in the twisties. My current car just gets me to my head office and back even cruising (250 mile round trip), I’m hoping a more modern engine will be better at those speeds and return 30+ mpg at 70-80 rather than my current 20-23 mpg. MPG for fun drives not a consideration.

    Short list so far seems to be:

    c43 amg, not looked at Merc, as always perceived them as old men’s cars but I am mid 40s now..
    440i
    M4
    S3 saloon

    Off to look at a 440 and an amg this afternoon

    F type is missing a couple of seats from my criteria!

    Thanks for all the input to date, any other suggestions?

  21. #21
    Grand Master snowman's Avatar
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    I'd cross the S3 Saloon off your list, from what you say.

    I've not driven the latest BMWs or the C43, but I've got a Golf R, which is the same as an S3 mechanically - It's quick and economical, in many ways the perfect all rounder, but it's not the most exciting of cars.

    I've got one because I need to lug a lot of stuff around sometimes, but if I didn't (And the S3 saloon won't) I wouldn't have one.

    That said, most reviews say it's hard to tell which wheels are driven on most 3/4 series...

    M

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt8500 View Post
    Diesels are just dull though, I’ve had a 330d and driven many 335/535d and they leave me totally cold.

    What I want is a car I can drive sensibly on the motorway and get a decent tank range, but still have fun in the twisties. My current car just gets me to my head office and back even cruising (250 mile round trip), I’m hoping a more modern engine will be better at those speeds and return 30+ mpg at 70-80 rather than my current 20-23 mpg. MPG for fun drives not a consideration.

    Short list so far seems to be:

    c43 amg, not looked at Merc, as always perceived them as old men’s cars but I am mid 40s now..
    440i
    M4
    S3 saloon

    Off to look at a 440 and an amg this afternoon

    F type is missing a couple of seats from my criteria!

    Thanks for all the input to date, any other suggestions?

  22. #22
    Decision made and deposit paid. Test drive the 440i, the c43 amg and the s3, and the one that blew me away was the Merc.


    Never thought I’d see the day after 20 years of BMWs and Audis! It’s a brilliant blend of comfort and quiet, that changes at the press of a couple of buttons into a totally different animal. Seriously impressed with the interior as well, made the bmw feel cheap and was better than the Audi too. Probably helps that it had the premium plus package.

    Can’t wait to pick it up on Wednesday, but will also be sad to see the M3 go- it’s been a blast.

  23. #23
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    Well done, lovely car, just don’t be too upset when a M3 blows you into the weeds. lol.

  24. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by bobdog View Post
    Well done, lovely car, just don’t be too upset when a M3 blows you into the weeds. lol.
    Should win the traffic light gp with four wheel drive... but yes would get trounced in any bends!

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt8500 View Post
    Decision made and deposit paid. Test drive the 440i, the c43 amg and the s3, and the one that blew me away was the Merc.
    Great to hear! It's the number one on my list too at the moment, but I've not driven one yet.

  26. #26
    I've had my C43 for 18 months and getting on for 35k miles, so I think you've made a very good choice, as I love mine. Used to do 2k a month on mostly motorways, and would happily achieve 30-35mpg, but stick it in Sport and it's a whole new animal that loves the twisty roads around here! I used to have an S3, and loved that as well, but I think the C43 edges it for all round ability, and it sounds way better! Ride is acceptable, although less so in the back, but definitely better than BMWs that I've had previously...

    Phil

  27. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by bobdog View Post
    Well done, lovely car, just don’t be too upset when a M3 blows you into the weeds. lol.
    Probably, but I'd like to see an M3 beat it in the winter... The C43 is a genuine all-year round performance car, especially if you fit some winter orientated rubber when the temparature drops!

  28. #28
    Thanks Phil, good to hear real world experience. Out of curiosity how many miles do you get out of a tank? Any tips on settings for the suspension etc?

  29. #29
    You can get 400+ miles out of a tank at a push, but usually 350-400 comfortably. It is 98 RON, but that never bothered me, as I always buy V-Power anyway.

    I tend to drive in Comfort for most trips, but being able to switch to Sport or Sport Plus on the suspension only is handy if you just want some extra grip/feel, without the more agressive map that come with selecting full Sport or Sport-Plus. Sport is great when you want to push on, and Sport-Plus is really only for full-on cross country stuff, as the gearbox tends to expect you to redline everything before it will change.

    As you said in your earlier post, it is genuinely several cars in one, as the full AMG tuning on it means that selecting different modes makes a proper difference, not just a bit of ignition advance and barely any noticeable change, as can be the case with lesser models...

    Phil

  30. #30
    Thanks Phil! Sounds perfect as that’s 100+ miles more than I’m getting now. I assume you always have the exhaust ‘on’

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt8500 View Post
    M4 is certainly an option. What do you get for real world tank range?

    I’d be interested in the Audi’s, but have had a few and the awful crashy suspension has put me off another, is the s3/4 any better?
    I did Reading to Barnsley return on one tank, c.370 miles some parts pushing on & others just going with the flow.

    I've had the M4 CP 12 months now & averaged just over 30mpg which I am happy with. So different to the V8 M3 torque wise, you can waft along like a turbo diesel with the torque, such a different engine, not anywhere near as rewarding sound wise or when pushing it, but for the rest of the time its so easy to drive / make swift progress

    Adrianw had some issues with throttle on Sport+ from memory, not something I have experienced....as long as you are committed with the throttle.

    Mine will now be a weekend toy, as got to park in a station car park everyday so bought a 0.9T Smart Car....even the lady on the phone at LV mentioned it was a little different to the previous multi-car policy that had a Z4M on it!

  32. #32
    Craftsman hoopsontoast's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt8500 View Post
    Another what car thread I’m afraid. I’m usually pretty decisive on what to get next, but for some reason am struggling this time.

    I currently have an e93 M3 which I love, however a new job means I’m driving long distances on mainly motorways and it’s not really the car for the job. This is not least because there’s no torque/power below 5000 rpm, and even driving slowly I’m filling up every 270 or so miles.

    Looking to the collective’s experience to see if there are better options? Needs 4 seats, petrol engine, reasonable torque and power, and to not be boring! Budget up to around 35k ish. I’m considering a 440i coupe or convertible, or maybe an Alfa guilia Veloce, but would appreciate thoughts or experience of viable options. Thanks.
    I've got an e90 Pre-LCI 330i, and although not huge torque low down, its certainly no slouch! And I have got 30mpg over the last 9-months, and usually between 350-380 miles to a tank. The fully adjustable sports seats are superb IMO. Mine is an Auto which is lovely for the motorway and I have got 34mpg+ on a long motorway run.
    The 335i is supposed to be a bit faster with more low down torque but at the expense of twin turbos compared to the NA engine in the 330i.

  33. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt8500 View Post
    Thanks Phil! Sounds perfect as that’s 100+ miles more than I’m getting now. I assume you always have the exhaust ‘on’
    I'll be honest Matt, I don't actually have the performance exhaust (more to do with cars available at the time that I bought, rather than a choice). However, it's still got a great exhaust note, with lots of pops and blips on down changes in Sport, so don't really miss it. Plus, my wife and neighbours already think it's load enough at first start up in the morning! Fortunately, I'm not leaving at 5am like I used to...

    Phil

  34. #34
    Out of interest, how did you find the difference in steering between the 440i and your M3? I have a 435i with mpk and miss the steering from my previous (non m) e92. I now have to do far fewer work miles and occasionally ponder a change to an e92 m3.

  35. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by RoyalVilla View Post
    Out of interest, how did you find the difference in steering between the 440i and your M3? I have a 435i with mpk and miss the steering from my previous (non m) e92. I now have to do far fewer work miles and occasionally ponder a change to an e92 m3.
    It was a bit ‘disconnected’ in comparison (was only a 10 or so miles drive though). I would thoroughly recommend the M3, incredible engine if you’re on it, handling that is telepathic and a very well put together car. I came out of a 330i to the M3, and the 2 where not comparable as pretty much the entire car is different (in a good way). The biggest disappointment of the 440 was the build and materials used in the cabin, 2011 car to 2019 and it felt like a step backwards.

  36. #36
    Thanks, I definitely have an M3 itch!
    On the 435i I find the build quality is good, but the interiors aren't a patch on Merc / Audi, though I do like the HUD.
    Enjoy your new car 👍

  37. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Highwayman View Post
    I'll be honest Matt, I don't actually have the performance exhaust (more to do with cars available at the time that I bought, rather than a choice). However, it's still got a great exhaust note, with lots of pops and blips on down changes in Sport, so don't really miss it. Plus, my wife and neighbours already think it's load enough at first start up in the morning! Fortunately, I'm not leaving at 5am like I used to...

    Phil
    Ah ok, still haven’t figured out what’s standard and what’s not! I’ve been googling since putting the deposit down and the one I’m getting has pretty much every single option ticked. Premium plus, driver pack, mirror pack, sports exhaust etc etc.

    Was a bit of an impulse buy, as I’m not too bothered about lots of bells and whistles and it was a reasonable price for the mileage/age, but seem to have lucked out .

  38. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by RoyalVilla View Post
    Thanks, I definitely have an M3 itch!
    On the 435i I find the build quality is good, but the interiors aren't a patch on Merc / Audi, though I do like the HUD.
    Enjoy your new car
    Thanks. I did like the 440 in isolation, don’t get me wrong it’s a well built great car, I just test drove it about 30 mins after the Merc

  39. #39
    Master yumma's Avatar
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    What about the new M135i, I’ve had two Audi’s and never again, the new 1 series looks and sounds epic; forget the bs of it’s not a true BMW because it just is as BMW own Mini, it’s a superb car ticking pretty much every box.

    Or get a Lexus RC.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by yumma View Post
    What about the new M135i
    Who are you replying to? The OP has now purchased his next car.

    That said, the new M135i is a wheezy 2.0l Ford Focus lookalike is it not ?

  41. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt8500 View Post
    Decision made and deposit paid. Test drive the 440i, the c43 amg and the s3, and the one that blew me away was the Merc.


    Never thought I’d see the day after 20 years of BMWs and Audis! It’s a brilliant blend of comfort and quiet, that changes at the press of a couple of buttons into a totally different animal. Seriously impressed with the interior as well, made the bmw feel cheap and was better than the Audi too. Probably helps that it had the premium plus package.

    Can’t wait to pick it up on Wednesday, but will also be sad to see the M3 go- it’s been a blast.
    Well done, good choice, MB seem to be a step up from BMW in every way, you won’t be disappointed

  42. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Mj2k View Post

    Adrianw had some issues with throttle on Sport+ from memory, not something I have experienced....as long as you are committed with the throttle.
    !
    The point is, it’s a road car, you shouldn’t need to be “committed” it wouldn’t be acceptable in a race car and BMW should not be allowed to release a road car with such poor mapping.

  43. #43
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    I went from e92 M3 to f83 M4 Comp and they are night and day in terms of the driving experience. I had the M3 for 6 years and yes it's completely underpowered at low revs but it's a charming sports car with heart and soul. Personally I found the M4 far more brutish and focussed on a single purpose - going fast. The performance figures between the two cars in no way represent the vastly more powerful engines that the F models have over the E - the ability to accelerate and gather speed is breath taking. I kept the M4 for just 15 months because after about a year I realised that I didn't like the driver that I became when I was in it. I got about 23mpg out of the M3 and 27 out of the M4. I wish I'd kept the M3 as I loved it and took an absolute bath on the M4!

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt8500 View Post
    Decision made and deposit paid. Test drive the 440i, the c43 amg and the s3, and the one that blew me away was the Merc.
    Did you get one at your budget of £35k? I looked last year and, in low mileage newish pre-owned, the C43 was an absolute minimum of £10k more than a 440i - and often less well spec'd.

  45. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by David_D View Post
    Did you get one at your budget of £35k? I looked last year and, in low mileage newish pre-owned, the C43 was an absolute minimum of £10k more than a 440i - and often less well spec'd.
    Bang on budget after some negotiation! 67 plate with 15k miles. As above it has pretty much every option and still has a year of MB warranty. 440s are a bit less for equivalent age/spec but imho the difference is more than worth it after yesterday’s test drives.

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt8500 View Post
    Bang on budget after some negotiation! 67 plate with 15k miles. As above it has pretty much every option and still has a year of MB warranty. 440s are a bit less for equivalent age/spec but imho the difference is more than worth it after yesterday’s test drives.

    Nice! I like the idea of 4WD when there’s that much power. Never understand why x-drive wasn’t standard on the 440i.

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt8500 View Post
    Bang on budget after some negotiation! 67 plate with 15k miles. As above it has pretty much every option and still has a year of MB warranty. 440s are a bit less for equivalent age/spec but imho the difference is more than worth it after yesterday’s test drives.
    I’m sure you’ll love it. My sons on his second one and every time I go in it or drive it I’m impressed. Firm ride but the engine is good (I have a M140i) but the Merc sounds so much better!

  48. #48
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    ......
    Last edited by jason.humphrey.180; 7th October 2019 at 19:03. Reason: Deleted

  49. #49
    Master Maysie's Avatar
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    A decent looking lease deal on 440i has just popped up on the Pistonheads thread if you are interested.

    420 and 430 available too.

    https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/...1801047&i=8040

  50. #50
    Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maysie View Post
    A decent looking lease deal on 440i has just popped up on the Pistonheads thread if you are interested.

    420 and 430 available too.

    https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/...1801047&i=8040

    Interesting! £1000 down + £444 a month over 2 years is £22,300. BMW site has several less than 18 months old at £28,000 or less. I know it's personal preference but I think I'd be tempted to buy a newish pre-owned. Obviously, with a new model coming out soonish, residuals on the current model will likely be down.

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