Reply With QuoteIt might be worth considering Eero which Amazon are making available in the UK for the first time shortly.
Hello,
I am wondering if I can borrow some of the forum's good wisdom for a WiFi installation at my in laws.
They have what is naturally a 4 bed double fronted semi and have extended the loft. They were using the single Virgin router which came free. The signal in the garden didn't exist and in the loft Netflix (when it did load) looks like crimewatch CCTV with about 10 pixels on the screen. Sonos is equally as bad.
Because it's my in laws I didn't want to go too gung-ho so I bought the Netgear Orbi RBK50 with one satellite on offer from PC World for approx £260 (now £320!) and it has improved things a lot, but hasn't met my expectations if I'm honest so I am now wondering if I should return it and go with Ubiquity. Any advice from someone with either AP welcome.
It seems like Ubiquiti is worth the price. I think two APs should do it and am happy to cover that cost. Three could be a bit expensive and I'm not sure where I could put the third as the wiring is already set.
Current set up below. Feedback welcome.
1x Virgin superhub
2x Orbi (main unit and satellite)
2x routers (either both Netgear or one Netgear and one tp link. 4-8 ports each)
Superhub has 2.4 and 5ghz disabled so as to still use it as a router. It is then connected by ethernet to the main Orbi, the TV, and a router under the stairs which then links via ethernet to another router in the loft. The router in the loft is to control CCTV. I think the router under the stairs is just to connect the virgin router it to the loft as virgin comes in at the living room.
What are my options here? Should I just put the virgin router in modem mode and connect to an 8 port router and connect that router to the Orbi/Ubiquity? We will still need a router in the loft to control CCTV. I was thinking this is where I would connect the second Ubiquity. I will not be editing the CCTV network set up at all in this process.
Only superficial annoyance is my mother in law probably wouldn't want an 8 port router, virgin hub and Orbi under the TV so perhaps I could put the first router and WiFi AP under the stairs where the existing first router is? It could/would be the first point from the virgin hub once in modem mode.
Also would I need a special Ubiquiti router or is anything decent good enough?
Or am I just being a princess and I should accept the Orbi and get on with it? Happy for advice either way and thank you in advance for the knowledge and help.
Wiley
It might be worth considering Eero which Amazon are making available in the UK for the first time shortly.
That's an unbelievably complex setup for a home. First things first; what are you issues with the Orbi setup? If you still have dead spots then add another satellite and consider repositioning the first. From your description it sounds as though your in-laws house is likely to be solid brick/breezeblock walls and WiFi will always be attenuated far more by this type of construction. Outline your issues and your requirements in greater detail and I'm sure there'll be many who can provide advice.
I used to have the Netgear Orbi but moved to Google WiFi about a year ago for reasons I won't bore you with here.
Thank you for the quick replies. At the moment the Orbi is under the TV next to the virgin router. I think I could simplify this and add a 4 port router to accommodate the TV and enable modem only mode on the superhub and still have the TV via ethernet.
From there I could add another router/switch under the stairs and from there connect the Orbi/Ubiquiti. I think I should probably do this anyway.
The issue isn't so much with the range it's more that when I look at the WiFi analytics the quality signal isn't nearly as good as it should be.
Should I just change the router set up and positioning and connect the Orbi satellite via ethernet in the loft? It's currently on a shelf on the first floor landing as that's the most convenient plug socket I could find.
Isn't that a subscription model ?Originally Posted by Phil Lee
I use a Ubiquity AP myself, I wouldn't touch their switches with a barge pole.
You can manage the AP via a Cloudkey controller or via an app.
They do in wall ones, never used one myself:-
https://www.broadbandbuyer.com/products/32614-ubiquiti-uap-iw-hd
https://www.broadbandbuyer.com/produ...uap-ac-iw-pro/
Last edited by Nogbad The Bad; 2nd October 2019 at 14:18.
Is the Orbi hub and Virgin router providing WiFi ?
No, just the Orbi. I set the virgin router to modem mode and it cut the WiFi as it won't allow the hub to act as a router. Work around is to turn off the 2.4 and 5ghz signals. This is what makes me think modem mode and a router before the Orbi would be a smart thing to do unless I'm being silly?
The Orbi and the Virgin hub don't have enough ports anyway. Could do with 5 or 6. Due to how the ethernet gets from the virgin hub on the ground floor to the loft I'm thinking 4 port router from the TV (to accommodate TV etc) before going into another 4 port router under the stairs where it will meet the Orbi and then go to an 8 port router in the loft serving the Orbi satellite and the CCTV?
Happy to replace Orbi with Ubiquiti in the paragraph above. If Ubiquiti is better than Orbi and worth the £ difference I will switch but I'm thinking the above set up should be adopted even if I keep the Orbi.
Last edited by wileeeeeey; 2nd October 2019 at 14:22.
For me I have :
Virgin Superhub (set to modem only mode)
Into Google wifi router - then out to a 8 port switch.
The second google wifi is in the living room - but on the ethernet so it can backhaul - and then into another 8 port switch for all the lan based devices.
Seems to cover the house quite well.. but got a modern build - so its all plasterboard and wood.
I think the coverage and speed is affected if the links to the satellites are all over wifi rather then having then on the LAN.
Cheers
Matt
My folks' place is a big brick built house and the standard BT hub (superfast) plus one strategically placed extender covers all rooms and into the garden.
You set up seems massively complicated.
That's far too complicated a setup.
Switch your Superhub to modem only mode.
Buy a multi port ethernet switch for your plug in items.
Buy an extra Orbi.
Enjoy.
How are you connecting the Orbi direct cable, powerline adapters, WiFi?
You are likely to need to test positioning of any of the ap’s, place a single ap centrally on the gf and test strength at the extremes of the gf if satisfactory try situating the second ap in the loft, test the strength on 1st floor and loft. If good then you are okay.
If the ground floor strength with a single ap is poor try and envision the gh as two halfs, try and put a ap as close as possible to the center of each half and check strength again. If okay it’s likely a third ap in the loft could cover the rest of the house. Think of it as a triangle.
In an ideal world you’d place the ap’s up high as this will help coverage reach to the 1st floor.
If you are using poweline adapters have you tested the point to point speeds between these to rule out them as the cause of performance issues.
As an aside I’ve heard the reach of the Ubiquiti is greater that other domestic mesh systems.
I agree re the set up being quite complicated. The reason for this is we've just sold our house and moved in with the in-laws on the weekend while we find the next house which will probably end up being a project and take some time. So I have a vested interest in good WiFi.
There are a lot of devices in the house. Too many. Hue and Sonos absolutely everywhere. Multiple Alexa's and Google Homes (don't ask) as well as WiFi plugs and that's before the phones, iPads, laptops and TVs. I think even if range wasn't an issue we could do with having as many devices on ethernet as possible and splitting the wireless traffic between APs anyway.
I think I may end up with a third Orbi if I keep the set up but the cost of that makes Ubiquiti a no brainer personally so I would rather see if two APs can do a good job regardless of brand. I think they should be able to just wondering what the "producers" among us have done.
Re the router question I would use the orbi as the router.run the virgin box in modem mode.
Virgin -> orbi router / ap0 -> switch 1 -> orbi ap1
Switch 1 -> orbi ap2
Switch 1 -> gf tv switch (if needed)
Switch 1 -> loft switch (if needed)
Obviously if you only have a single Ethernet run to the loft then you could hang the loft ap off of that switch.
Last edited by Captain Morgan; 2nd October 2019 at 17:31. Reason: Layout more stupid...
Reading this makes me think the Ubiquiti would be the way forward even if it’s with three ap’s.
Ubiquiti always came up as one of the goto makes on edugeeks when I was looking to upgrade the school wifi. (Eventually chose Ruckus and it has been brilliant.)
By "routers everywhere" you probably mean "switches everywhere" as you definitely don't want to be routing any more than you need. I've had brilliant service out of the Cisco SG-300 range of switches at school. At the last count there's about 10 in service and boy do they get a pounding. Faultless so far (6 years?).
All my Ruckus APs backhaul to the controllers, servers and gateway router (not needed on today's Ruckus) with gigE over the Cisco-switched n/w.
Sorry, you are complete right. I think I am going to use the main Orbi as the router off the virgin hub in modem mode and then connect the main Orbi to the TV etc and the ethernet which goes from the TV under the floor to under the stairs.
From there it will go into the loft to another switch which feeds the cameras. I will then use a super long ethernet cable to put the Orbi satellite at the better end of the loft away from the CCTV and use the spare ports on it to feed some Sonos.
Question is this. I don't really want the main Orbi under the TV due to bad placement and interference. I would rather it in the downstairs hallway off the switch that's under the stairs but I do need a router once the virgin hub is in modem mode. If I use the Orbi as a router it has to be at the TV.
is it best to:
-Suck it up and have the Orbi under the TV
-Buy a router to put under the TV and feed the switch in the hall where the Orbi can now be
-Keep the virgin hub in router mode (2.4 and 5ghz disabled)
If buying a router does anyone have a recommendation for a decent wired router?
All the switches will be Netgear GS108v4.
Thank you again for the help.
I have BT HH in a cupboard upstairs. In the cupboard is a Netgear 24 way switch with 12 POE channels. These run via CAT6 around the house, then at various points I have 4 Cisco WAP121s which are set up in a group the same SSID and PW as the BT hub. In my home office and TV/entertainment areas, there are network sockets with a Netgear 6 way switch plugged in to feed the TV/Blu Ray/Network Music Player and in the office, the PCs and printer.
Seems to be quite stable. And as the Cisco allow multiple SSID, I occasionally add a spoof one for nosy neighbours like "Met Police Surveillance Van 42" etc ;-)
I had similar problems and have tackled it with switching off the WIFi on the Sky router and running a cat5 cable to an Ubiquiti 8port switch, and running one of their LR AP’s off one of the POE ports. I put the AP on the ceiling of the hallway as this is roughly the middle of the house and a second cable ready for upstairs if needed. So far the WiFi has been rock solid, and covers the whole house with the single AP. The setup with the control software could have been easier but now it is done it provides updates to the AP and switch every now and again. It can be setup to run multiple SSID’s but so far I’ve now bothered.
I also ran some cat5 to the back of the TV and Sky TV box to keep the, off the WiFi, both directly in to the switch. I’m on 80Mb sky fibre and get 70Mb on the WiFi with a bit of drop off in the furthest places in the house, the thing that pleased me was coverage into the garage which is good enough to stream Netflix etc. which I use when I’m on the turbo.
I certainly wouldn't change back now to the crappy WiFi that the Sky router provided!
Update:
I've ordered some new equipment which will arrive over the next week. Sadly one of the key items was out of stock or I would have done it all this weekend.
1x Ubiquiti EdgeRouter X
2x Netgear GS108v4
Various lengths of cat7.
I'll put the virgin hub into modem mode then into the EdgeRouter under the TV where there is an ethernet cable under the floor which goes to under the stairs.
I'll swap out the old 4 port switch under the stairs with one of the GS108 switches and connect the main Orbi to this. The main Orbi will be on a shelf in the hall under the stairs but the switch will actually be under the stairs out of sight.
There are another two ethernet cables from the switch under the stairs which go out to the loft into a switch. I'll swap out the switch for another GS108 there and use the 8 ports to support the CCTV, some of the Sonos and TV in the room there and then run a much longer ethernet cable through the eaves and into the satellite Orbi. I'll then use that Orbi to connect another TV and Sonos by ethernet.
Hopefully that will be enough to do it and we'll have good coverage if not another Orbi might be needed.
If I was doing a house from scratch I would have Ubiquiti APs in the ceiling but it isn't my house and it doesn't need updating so trying to get APs in the ceiling won't work.
The only other thing is wondering if VLANs are worth it for my use and probably making the main SSID invisible and setting up a guest network so visitors can't control the Sonos as at the house we just moved from whenever anyone on the WiFi came over they could put Spotify from their phone onto the speakers and the couple of times that happened they always underestimated how loud Sonos is and it got really annoying really fast.
Thank you for the help and advice and if anyone thinks the above sounds stupid or could be improved let me know. I'm not previous, I just want good internet :)
I went for Ubiquity a few years ago, no regrets but also no comparison to be made.
Your first proposed set-up did sound overcomplicated. I have everything running out of the garage, BT Homehub going through a Netgear 24 switch. CAT6 to all bedrooms, living room, playroom and kitchen with TVs in each and 2 Ubiquity points (Hallway and Landing). After 4 years, I still haven't got round to making up the patch cables for TVs as they all run faultlessly over the wifi, streaming HD on 2 at a time mostly. Ran out of interest!
Touch wood, never had an issue. I have enough ports left to install CCTV but never really felt the need. But then, I suppose you don't until the horse has bolted...
Brilliant!
Thanks for the feedback and I do agree. It's too messy and complicated. When we buy our next house I'll install a rack mounted switch with all rooms wired for ethernet and Ubiquiti APs in the ceiling, similar to what you have above, it's just while staying with family between moves a "proper" set up isn't open to us so I'm just trying to get the best out of what I have.
On the plus side I did find there are two cat6 cables going from downstairs to each room in the loft, not just the one, so this has eliminated the need for one of the switches. Now we'll have 1xGS108 switch downstairs off the Edge Router X and one more upstairs for the cameras.
I've just installed the GS108 downstairs and the only thing left is the Edge Router which comes on Monday but so far that has allowed me to backhaul to the Orbi satellite and move it to the loft which has transformed the internet upstairs.
we've just moved into a 3 floor new build with virgin and orbi.
The initial setup was a bit of a pig - as the op says 'modem mode' was a no go so just turned off the virgin routers radios and connected orbi up. As we are a new estate virgin have limited the speeds here to their '200' packages which is what we have, speed tests anywhere in the house are 219down, 20up.
The only real issue I had was getting it to work with the Ring doorbell, that turned out to be the orbi using more channels on 2.4g than the ring supported, fixing it on channel 6 sorted that out and everything now works fine.
In short I've got no issues with the functionality of Virgin and Orbi and would recommend it. Of course with these things ymmv due to house construction and RF environment.
I'm doing a very similar setup with my renovation. Cat 6 throughout the house, Ubiquiti APs on each landing, two on the ground floor, hardwired by PoE to the ceilings, PoE CCTV, the router and switch and patches in the loft. The WiFi should be really strong but still getting rid of my Ring Doorbell and having a PoE hardwired Hiqvision video intercom instead with a hardwired control panel.
Re VLANs not with the switches you've brought, they are unmanaged.
https://www.netgear.com/support/product/GS108v4.aspx
Pointless hiding the SSID, you can still see the SSID in beacon frames if you have the right equipment.
I wouldn’t necessarily go with more AP’s, there are reports on them clashing with each other if they are to close. I was talking to one of my network engineers at work (I work in IT) and he was of the same opinion, more is not always the best thing. I’m really surprised the coverage I get from just one AP, it provides great coverage upstairs and downstairs with just the one on the hall ceiling.
If they are spaced well and some heat mapping is done, good coverage is gained, but to many overlapping signals can cause issues!
You're completely right. I went with unmanaged deliberately so no idea what I was on about.
Re hiding the main SSID and enabled a guest SSID (so we don't admit we're giving visitors guest access) is there any issue or interference with enabling two SSIDs per AP?
Completely agree. Best place for an AP is on the ceiling as it gives much better signal. Testing different areas is more important than adding more APs. For my current set up internet is now first class throughout the whole house although I do lose signal when moving from the living room to the kitchen.
Once I get the edge router tomorrow I'll be able to reposition the main Orbi from under the TV in the front of the house to the downstairs hall and I'm confident that will solve the issue of WiFi calls dropping when WiFi drops and the phone can't revert to 4G without disconnecting.
No issues with multiple SSIDs per access-point they use the same channel / frequency.
I have 4 SSIDs at home, normal vlan wpa2, normal vlan wpa2 enterprise, guest & iot.
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