Chopard is revamping an 80s design in the form of a new collection -
Another integrated sports watch! All the rage at the moment as it's clear the market wants them. And it's not just the 'holy trinity' offerings, I remember reading Piaget are doing well with theirs in the States and Bvlgari are not doing badly either.
But as we've seen with B&R, they can be hit and miss. I think this is a hit. Why? It's designed from the bottoms up and looks high quality. Everything is functional, even the screws! Price is $12900, not cheap but not crazy either (I'm looking at you Patek, even at RRP). Let me know you thoughts!
Two links, first is standard Hodinkee - https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/th...gle-collection
The second gives a much more interesting account (IMO) - https://www.alphaluxe.com/2019/10/fl...ch-collection/
I like this. I like Chopard as a brand. I dislike the Nautilus and the RO for what they have come to represent.
All this notwithstanding, while the VC Overseas exists, I’d never even consider one.
Even in that scenario, I’d def put an Octo first. Probably the Polo too even though, silly screw heads aside, this potentially looks nicer.
I guess what I’m saying is a rehash of the Alan Partridge Toby Ayers scene. This is the Swallow of watches.
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Ah VC. Seem to be a bit of a darling lately. When the current iteration was released, I managed to spend a good 30 mins trying all the versions on. Too safe in design - the previous iteration was much edgier and more interesting. Not as refined, maybe, but I liked it better.Originally Posted by Ellgal
The Octo though nice is a bit too square for my liking.
The more I look at this, the more I think Chopard are onto a winner. I like their approach here as well with the watch fully in-house. Still not sure if it would fit in my collection, but I certainly am looking forward to having a hands-on in the coming months.
I was about to post a similar thread but I was going to be less favourable towards it unfortunately. When I first saw it earlier today I wanted to like it but it just remined me of other models by competitors. For example the crownguards remind me of a nautilus and the bracelet looks very similar to the first gen VC overseas so its a miss from me. They do however manage to get the screws to all line up.
It’s a yes from me - that slate grey dial is killer! Shame it’s out of my league.
I saw the new b&r in a shop window in Taipei and I have to say, all my negative thoughts were gone as it is a nicely balanced watch. Maybe the scarcity of rolex has made these manufacters fill the gap of steel bracelet sports/dress models
When I first saw a picture I thought it looked really great. But the price... I am not familiar with a Chopard pricing but I would have expected about half that price. No deal.
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I wasn’t expecting this degree of positivity to be honest, I was already thinking of it as the Chopard Alpine Camel. I wasn’t aware there was another long lost 70s / 80s watch on the integrated bracelet bandwagon to rework, but this one reminds me of Homer Simpson’s car design. It has bits of other watches, but all arranged in the wrong order. There even seems to be an echo of Vacheron Constantin’s rare misstep, the hideous Phidias.
Nonetheless, I must admit they’ve done all they can with it in terms of the execution and finishing, including the unusual super-hard and super shiny steel, which is a very nice touch, and it has the odd angle. Maybe I’m being unduly negative - I forget how many people don’t actually like the Royal Oak, there’s always someone popping up and proudly proclaiming that they don’t get it, so perhaps for some it doesn’t look like an RO / Nautilus gone horribly wrong.
More details including the unusual steel here: https://www.ablogtowatch.com/chopard...n-world-debut/
Last edited by Itsguy; 2nd October 2019 at 08:22.
I'm one of those that has found the Nautilus and RO not totally to my liking aesthetically. They both still feel stuck in 70s design wise. Combined with the pricing, a complete non starter. Chopard at least seem to have designed a modern made watch - the steel is a great example, let's see how it looks after getting a battering! The other key element is the dial - the texture finish is lovely.
I think there is only so much you can do with the whole integrated bracelet look, Genta figured out what seems to work and most are following that formula. The biggest own goal has been from IWC, who thought best to trash the design completely. Given all the interest, I'm going to make a wild guess they're going to revamp the Ingeneiur at SIHH 2020 and go back to the original aesthetics....
The drawings in this link...
https://www.alphaluxe.com/2019/10/fl...ch-collection/
...seem to indicate that the dial-side screws aren't screws; the slots are merely decorative with a hexagonal/octagonal 'nut' below to fix in position & the case is tightened from the rear.
There's a (huge, thus I've not included it) picture in the same link showing the screw-heads on the rear of the watch not matching up.
If I'm wrong I'll be happy to be corrected.
______
Jim.
I hope you’re right on the Ingenieur, IWC had actually done a good job of creating a modern interpretation with the last generation. The only issues were oversized crown guards, a slightly plain dial, a mismatch of movement and price, and Omega’s much more advanced antimagnetic movements. All of these could be solved, particularly if they just gave up on antimagnetic as its defining feature, or could do something with the movement.
On the RO and Nautilus, you could say they’re stuck in the 70s, but that’s because they are from the 70s, they are a design classic and that’s kind of the point of them. AP have tried to update the design over the years, but the ones closest to the original ended up being the best.
I feel there’s still a gap in the market for a more sensibly priced take on the Genta integrated bracelet sports watch, but it’s amazing how hard brands are making it look. GP’s Laureato is a near miss for me, Piaget’s too, and now Chopard. B&R’s is a bit marmite, but having seen it in person, at least it hangs together. I used to own a lovely Omega Cosmic 2000 that worked fine, maybe Omega should raid their back catalogues or rethink the Constellation range.
It would be odd for IWC not to jump on the bandwagon. As for antimag, it's part of the DNA, so really has to be included I think. So IWC has to be more ambitious with it's movements. But with watch companies trying to cost cut and ramp up pricing they may stick with a bog standard Sellita or their cheaper in-house movements.
Having a design classic is one thing, but you are allowed to jazz up the watch and make it a bit more modern! But that is not particularly Patek's way. AP did it with the Royal Oak Offshore, so I cannot be too harsh on them. GP's watch is lacking in style. Piaget's is not too bad when seen, but it's too oval (if that makes sense). One thing I think is clear with the whole integrated sports watch is, try cheapening elements and the whole thing looks a bit naff.
Would be interested to see if Omega would be interested, but they're more focused on going up against Rolex. The integrated sports watch seems to be best suited to brands who are not necessarily sports (or bracelet watches) focused.
It seems IWC had already abandoned antimagnetic as the selling point of most of the Ingenieur range, as they’d pivoted to ‘engineering’, and from there, unfortunately, to Formula 1. The Genta style one ended up as the entry level model, strangely. One of its best features was thinness, where the SW300 helped, and they compromised on the antimagnetic iron to achieve it. Ultimately though, it ended up as an antimagnetic watch that was more expensive than Omega’s much more antimagnetic watch, and that was the end of Genta Ingenieur. I hope they can find a solution, which knowing IWC these days will be focused on innovative marketing.
I agree that some updating is reasonable, but it’s always a fine line with a design classic. Rolex have the same problem, or even Porsche - they can make it go faster and handle better, but it still needs to look roughly like one. With the RO it’s clear that the 15202ST commands the highest premium, as it retains the original size and slim proportions, which seem to be back in vogue.
On the Chopard, I’ll have to say ‘too 80s’. But by my own logic perhaps that’s the point!
I can buy the whole 'engineering' nonsense if that is what it takes. It may even be a good thing as the older Ingenieurs were so heavy in steel. I have the AMG chrono in Titanium (wearing it today in fact), and much better weight.
They need to focus on the design, go back to GG basics and do it better. I found the Ingenieur styling to be the best out of the GG designed watches so they have such a solid base to start from.
A Brand’s perceived position within the luxury goods market plays a major factor in desirability, maybe even more so than the products themselves. Chopard may not be a big player in the watch market but in the luxury goods echelons they are a big player and as such will always price to match their status.
Do wonder what the breakdown in cost is on a steel sports watch from the big players, Patek, Cartier, Rolex and Audemars etc and just what they add to the end cost for their name to go on the dial.
Reading one of the articles on this Chopard release a commentator called out the polish centre links and how that finish looks very 1990’s and somewhat dated. Polished centre links have been a main feature within the market for sometime and it probably did kick off in the late 90’s and has carried on with some force since but it did make me think on this general look and I could understand were the comments were coming from. Could we see a reaction in the future watch market were polished centre link watches go completely out of fashion the same way two tone took a hit for many years.
As with the Royal Oak, these appear to be Chicago Screws, also knows as sex bolts (!). So they've been tightened up from the back, again like the RO, but the screws slots are actually part of the design of Chicago screws, as they allow them to be tightened or held in place from either end. In this case I'd suggest they are partly decorative but also partly functional, as unlike the RO, they're round, so presumably they need to be held in place somehow while you're tightening it from the other side. That also allows them to align the screw slots in a decorative way. On the RO the screw slots are decorative in that they're tightened from the back, while the hexagonal shape keeps them secure at the front. However they're not just decorative, as Chicago screws can have screw slots on the bolt end, so they're multi-functional. It's more that Genta has repurposed a pre-existing part in a functional but also decorative way, that gives a rather manly engineering feel to the design (if you're allowed to 'manly' now - you were in the 70s anyway). So when people say the RO screw slots are silly because you can't screw the bolts, that's actually not the point. In the case of the Chopard, they're even borderline functional and are certainly holding the watch together, in a way copied directly from the RO.The drawings in this link...
https://www.alphaluxe.com/2019/10/fl...ch-collection/
...seem to indicate that the dial-side screws aren't screws; the slots are merely decorative with a hexagonal/octagonal 'nut' below to fix in position & the case is tightened from the rear.
There's a (huge, thus I've not included it) picture in the same link showing the screw-heads on the rear of the watch not matching up.
If I'm wrong I'll be happy to be corrected.
My understanding (from the Luxe report) as well as holding the entire case together, they're necessary to give the 100m water resistance - so Chopard say anyway.
from alphaluxe -
Alpine Eagle’s round bezel features the iconic eight screws, grouped in pairs at the four cardinal points. In particular, the screw slots are set at a tangent to the circle of the bezel, demonstrating high-quality finishing and sophistication that surpasses rival brands. These screws serve a technical function by guaranteeing the water resistance of the watch to 100 metres.
Indeed, that’s what made the RO so clever, that it could have good water resistance and yet be so thin, precisely because of the bolts. Though arguably the eight bolts spaced evenly around the dial, giving you the octagonal bezel, is the best arrangement mechanically. Perhaps that’s why it’s so hard for brands to improve on Genta’s designs, they were functional and not just decorative. It’s more than just a certain style and a bit of marketing fluff, it’s about designing a very thin watch with a good depth rating.
Incidentally, the bezel on the Overseas is similarly functional, as the shape is defined by the places the screws go in on the reverse. Or at least, that’s how it worked on the original one. I’m not sure about the 222.
I popped in to Chopard today and had a look at the alpine eagle. When I first saw the pictures I wasn't overly impressed with it, but wanted to see it in the flesh given the largely positive write up its received. Having tried it on the pictures really dont do it justice, the whole package does work very well. As you'd expect the finishing is fantastic and the dial is constatntly changing colour as it catches the light. I think it looks great on the wrist.
That looks amazing! Did they have the grey one on show?I popped in to Chopard today and had a look at the alpine eagle. When I first saw the pictures I wasn't overly impressed with it, but wanted to see it in the flesh given the largely positive write up its received. Having tried it on the pictures really dont do it justice, the whole package does work very well. As you'd expect the finishing is fantastic and the dial is constatntly changing colour as it catches the light. I think it looks great on the wrist.
They did, and I tried that on also. I should have snapped a shot of that on the wrist also. As with the blue dial it transforms when it catches the light but the trsnsformation as the light catches it is more pronounced. It is hard to describe. Out of the two I preferred the blue dial but I'm naturally drawn to darker dials as I like the contrast.
A pic of the grey dial and both blue and grey together.
I liked the dial, but wasn’t convinced by the case and bracelet.
I like to look at watches for their aesthetic and how it appeals to me.
Distinctly do not like the APRO for instance and struggle a little with PP steel offerings.
Im quite taking a fancy for instance to various UN models and GP models - particularly because they are different - as far as SS Sports can be I guess?
That said, I don’t see this as one of Chopards greatest aesthetic;
The bracelet is VCO Phase 1,
The case is Hubert Classic Fusion,
The bolt-thru’s are APRO and
The crown lugs are PP Nautilus?
The gouged sunburst dial reminds me of something but I can’t think of it (70s wax-dripped wedding bands???)
Bit of a Franken-watch for me
Saw one in Berry’s in Leeds last week, not for me. As poster above has said, it looks like a version of a number of high end watches mashes together. The size also looked to wear a little small for my tastes although I didn’t try it on. looking at it in the window it just didn’t look to have any of the refinement of the watches it’s taken it’s design ideas from, I get it’s at a different price point though.
The case had an IWC Ingenieur look to it, but the bezel and the industrial screws didn’t feel right, the dial for me had a few issues as well, the spacing between the indices meant the date window looked too small, the Roman numerals didn’t feel right, should have just gone with a baton dial imo, would have given the opportunity to increase the size of the date window whilst mainting good perspective.
Chopard have made some cracking watches in the past, many unique and individual in their own style, my over whelming sense was this was trying to be something it wasn’t, but this watch game is all about horses for courses, and given the design ideas it’s trying to emulate it will no doubt appeal to many, just not this watch-nut.
Dave
Last edited by watch-nut; 13th October 2019 at 07:59.
I really like the look of these, I bought one online but it sold in the store at the same time. I then found a great deal with watchesofmayfair but decided against it despite the large discount. I think they offer good value vs the similar competition and I love the bracelet and dials.
Ultimately I felt like I was settling and would want one of big 3 so went that way.
Ended up buying a used VC overseas.
Thank you GG, looks good, I've not made my way to central london to have a look yet. But can't wait!
Personally I don't see it as settling - I think it depends on your brand perception of Chopard. The minor quibble I have with the Alpine Eagle is the movement - I would prefer it to be better finished. But congrats on the VC, not for me, but I understand why people like it!
This is absolutely beautiful!
Chopard is revamping an 80s design in the form of a new collection -
Another integrated sports watch! All the rage at the moment as it's clear the market wants them. And it's not just the 'holy trinity' offerings, I remember reading Piaget are doing well with theirs in the States and Bvlgari are not doing badly either.
But as we've seen with B&R, they can be hit and miss. I think this is a hit. Why? It's designed from the bottoms up and looks high quality. Everything is functional, even the screws! Price is $12900, not cheap but not crazy either (I'm looking at you Patek, even at RRP). Let me know you thoughts!
Two links, first is standard Hodinkee - https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/th...gle-collection
The second gives a much more interesting account (IMO) - https://www.alphaluxe.com/2019/10/fl...ch-collection/
I agree the movement could def be better finished especially when compared to my breguet I was wearing.
From the pictures that was my intial thoughts but it had such positive reviews I was still intrigued to see how it looked in the metal and it does work as a package with its own look.
When i saw the watch on the tray it did look pretty small however on the wrist it does wear like a 41mm and has a good prescence.
I saw these in Selfridges on Friday the finishing looks very sleek and I really like the dial.
Tried it on today and loved the look and feel of it. Always wanted a Chopard but none ever ticked enough boxes.
Only 2 major drawbacks I could see instantly. The simple friction fit clasp, with no micro adjust. Not very sporty at all.
Also the price tag... Even with a discount it's too hefty for me.
Oh well.
I found myself in town and couldn’t resist having a look. The first surprise was the size - 41mm is usually oversized for me, but here there are crown guards on both sides <cough...Nautilus...cough>, so the actual dial and bezel are a fair bit less. This should make it quite adaptable to different wrists. Well done to Chopard for that, as you can see below, even with a worryingly slim wrist it fits fine, but shouldn’t look undersized on larger wrists either. Part of the point is to see the bracelet, not fill the wrist with a huge dial.
The clasp is very subtle, almost invisible when closed. I preferred the blue dial which has a bit more contrast, the grey blends in more. The second big surprise was that two tone suits this watch. Bi-metal isn’t to my taste, but it fits the design surprisingly well.
Overall it comes together perhaps better than photos might suggest, and elements like the odd grouping of screws, which at first feels like it’s there solely to avoid looking the same as the Royal Oak, aren’t noticeable in reality, perhaps because they relate to other elements like those crown guards. You certainly notice the super shiny steel, which gives it almost a jewellery feeling. It’s a matter of taste, but may help it to look like something that’s suitably expensive. It would have been better without the date which feels squeezed in. The Roman numerals, also not to my taste to be honest, together with the fine finishing certainly give it an upmarket, rather flamboyant feel. Certainly something for the ski slopes of Saint Moritz. But that’s also why it’s not quite to my taste, I prefer the more brutal, nuts and bolts meets high end feel of the RO. But what it does do, is offer something different to the RO and Nautilus, and at a price where there is a gap in the market for a less astronomically priced alternative to AP and PP. And unlike certain other attempts to fill that gap, it doesn’t look like the poor relation.
Having said that, you can get a similar look for less money with a first generation Overseas, which personally I prefer... though I would say that!
Having said that, you can get a similar look for less money with a first generation Overseas, which personally I prefer... though I would say that!
At least the date window's in the proper place on the VC.
Not really, it should be at 6 the date ;)
Nice VC though.
Interesting Chopard but prefer my Third Gen VC overseas.
Looks like a bargain at less than £7k, if you live outside the EU, as soon we might.
I'm just pulling this thread back from the dead...
Has anybody got some updated views of the Alpine Eagle 41 blue dial and how it wears? I really like the look of the dial and can live with all the historical difficulties as it just looks like a damn fine watch. I've got to decide if I like it enough to sell a rose gold breguet chronograph....
Anyone?
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