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Thread: Strange Car Insurance Problem

  1. #1

    Strange Car Insurance Problem

    My 19 yo son was stopped by police late one night recently (after following him for a while) and the reason they gave was that his car was insured in London but he was in Essex (seems spurious to me but never mind).

    The strange thing is though, they said that someone else has insured the car - the police showed him this on their tablet so seems correct. I would have pressed them on this - do 2 insurers show on their system etc. He is properly insured himself of course.

    Why would anyone do this? Have they cloned his number plate or there's some other motive?

  2. #2
    Master
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    What does ask mid come back with?

    https://ownvehicle.askmid.com

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Morgan View Post
    What does ask mid come back with?

    https://ownvehicle.askmid.com
    Just that it's insured, as expected.

  4. #4
    Master de30m's Avatar
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    Probably worth mentioning it to your insurance company to check, I’m sure they can check deeper into the MID

    Or it’s a trip to the police station to ask what they mean

    Either someone has forgot to cancel old insurance they had on the car, is it recently bought? Or it’s for some likely nefarious purpose sadly

    Clone the car to a wreck they have already and then write it off maybe?

  5. #5
    Master
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    Maybe a previous trader added it on their trade policy (you now do this yourself online on the MID database) and never took it off. I’d imagine it’s a more likely scenario than a private owner leaving it insured.

    Not sure on the connection between locations and it showing twice though, but maybe that’s a more in depth thing the police can see.

  6. #6
    Craftsman T1ckT0ck's Avatar
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    Strange Car Insurance Problem

    Previous private owner may have left it run full term rather than pay a cancellation fee perhaps.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  7. #7
    Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kingstepper View Post
    My 19 yo son was stopped by police late one night recently (after following him for a while) and the reason they gave was that his car was insured in London but he was in Essex (seems spurious to me but never mind).

    The strange thing is though, they said that someone else has insured the car - the police showed him this on their tablet so seems correct. I would have pressed them on this - do 2 insurers show on their system etc. He is properly insured himself of course.

    Why would anyone do this? Have they cloned his number plate or there's some other motive?
    Just out of curiosity what car is it?

    I know you consider the reason to be spurious but the fact is they [the police] don't need a reason, subject to the provisions of Sections 163 & 164 of the Road Traffic Act 1988.

    I'm not going discuss the intricacies of the Police National Computer (PNC) with you but the circumstances you describe can happen. Might I suggest contacting the Motor Insurers' Bureau, by all means go to your local police station but they're not going to tell you anything.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by MST View Post
    Just out of curiosity what car is it?

    I know you consider the reason to be spurious but the fact is they [the police] don't need a reason, subject to the provisions of Sections 163 & 164 of the Road Traffic Act 1988.

    I'm not going discuss the intricacies of the Police National Computer (PNC) with you but the circumstances you describe can happen. Might I suggest contacting the Motor Insurers' Bureau, by all means go to your local police station but they're not going to tell you anything.
    It's a 2006 Ford Focus.

    I appreciate they don't need a reason but to say the car is in a different area (by perhaps 40 miles) to where insured does seem like a spurious reason (though to be fair has flagged up an insurance issue).

    Agree police station (if open) will be useless but I'll advise to notify insurer in case there's a future problem.

    He's had car few months but police did say was insured (by 3rd party) 'recently' and asked if he knew a 'Nigel' so doesn't sound like a trade policy. Could be a private auto-renewal I suppose but doubt it.

  9. #9
    Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kingstepper View Post
    It's a 2006 Ford Focus.

    I appreciate they don't need a reason but to say the car is in a different area (by perhaps 40 miles) to where insured does seem like a spurious reason (though to be fair has flagged up an insurance issue).

    Agree police station (if open) will be useless but I'll advise to notify insurer in case there's a future problem.

    He's had car few months but police did say was insured (by 3rd party) 'recently' and asked if he knew a 'Nigel' so doesn't sound like a trade policy. Could be a private auto-renewal I suppose but doubt it.
    I think querying it with MIB in the first instance is the best way to go. I'm not sure whether DVLA would be of much help as I suspect they'll just refer you back to MIB or even [wrongly] the police.

    The other thing that may and I do stress MAY be an issue is who the previous keeper of the vehicle was and what they used it for, though you haven't mentioned that he was searched which is something I would expect if they really thought he was up to no good.

    Speak to your Son's insurer about your concerns, maybe after you've made the MIB enquiry, for your own peace of mind if nothing else. There are many factors that could have led up to the stop, some of which in relative isolation may make it seem unfair or unnecessary but sadly it's a reflection of the world we live in - the world of cross border crime where burglary, county lines drug dealing and child criminal/sexual exploitation; to name but a few, is the reality I'm afraid.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by MST View Post
    I think querying it with MIB in the first instance is the best way to go. I'm not sure whether DVLA would be of much help as I suspect they'll just refer you back to MIB or even [wrongly] the police.

    The other thing that may and I do stress MAY be an issue is who the previous keeper of the vehicle was and what they used it for, though you haven't mentioned that he was searched which is something I would expect if they really thought he was up to no good.

    Speak to your Son's insurer about your concerns, maybe after you've made the MIB enquiry, for your own peace of mind if nothing else. There are many factors that could have led up to the stop, some of which in relative isolation may make it seem unfair or unnecessary but sadly it's a reflection of the world we live in - the world of cross border crime where burglary, county lines drug dealing and child criminal/sexual exploitation; to name but a few, is the reality I'm afraid.
    Thanks for the advice. Not really concerned that he was stopped, just surprised at the reason given but as you suggest there may be more behind it.

    Maybe you can't answer this but if a car was doubly insured twice would PNC show this? He had to show his proof on his phone.

  11. #11
    It’s not illegal to have more than one policy on a vehicle however the second party must have a legitimate insurance interest in order to have a valid policy or they must have an interest in your son’s car. I doubt they have this given that I presume that your son is the one and only legal owner of his car.

  12. #12
    Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kingstepper View Post
    Thanks for the advice. Not really concerned that he was stopped, just surprised at the reason given but as you suggest there may be more behind it.

    Maybe you can't answer this but if a car was doubly insured twice would PNC show this? He had to show his proof on his phone.
    I wish I could answer your PNC question definitively but I can't. As I recall it may show if more than 1 policy is in force but it won't necessarily show all of them at the time. I know that it can take some time to update e.g. if I took a policy out on a new car now it wouldn't show up on there immediately but usually 24-48 hours is enough depending on when it was taken out - weekends and bank holidays sometimes cause an issue.

    I can imagine that it probably just looked odd from their point of view and then wasn't explained adequately.

  13. #13
    Master de30m's Avatar
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    Essex and London are surely not so far apart that a car cannot be out of place in one or the other at any time

    However if they have the name of someone it sounds like there might be a marker on the reg number linked to this Nigel, not the most obvious name for a London scallywag though,

    have to wonder what they are looking out for the reg number for, what has naughty Nigel been up to with your lad’s reg number!!

  14. #14
    Master
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    Are you saying the police showed your son personal information relating to an individual unknown to him?
    GDPR breach here it appears if so.

    Jim


    Quote Originally Posted by Kingstepper View Post
    My 19 yo son was stopped by police late one night recently (after following him for a while) and the reason they gave was that his car was insured in London but he was in Essex (seems spurious to me but never mind).

    The strange thing is though, they said that someone else has insured the car - the police showed him this on their tablet so seems correct. I would have pressed them on this - do 2 insurers show on their system etc. He is properly insured himself of course.

    Why would anyone do this? Have they cloned his number plate or there's some other motive?

  15. #15
    Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kingstepper View Post

    Maybe you can't answer this but if a car was doubly insured twice would PNC show this? He had to show his proof on his phone.
    PNC will show the details of one policy, usually the most recent. If there’s 2 policies it will just say “Number of policies: 2” but won’t show the details of the second. The MIB are the people to speak to.

  16. #16
    Whats the name of the previous owner on the log book? Is that a Nigel?

  17. #17
    Master Guz's Avatar
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    Any update ?

  18. #18
    The A12 is fast becoming the chosen road for criminals to get out of the smoke and into the country for a spot of naughtiness then back home before the crime is even reported, so maybe a car in Essex being driven by a young lad that is shown as being insured in London might be worth a pull?

    Just a thought.

  19. #19
    Craftsman
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    I lost faith in the police keeping accurate records after I reported a car to the police after I noticed the occupants were sniffing around a major rebuilding project I was doing at the end of a dead end lane. Their excuse for being there sounded weak so I informed the police. “No such number” I was told to check. Since I also had CCTV, I did check and also put the number into comparethemarket and it showed the make and model of car I’d just seen.

    Rang police back, all they could suggest was the car had been cloned from one that had been scrapped and scrapped numbers were removed from their database. From my call, they’d stick it back on so it would be recognised next time it passed an ANPR camera.

    Seemed a bit flakey that details still remained on insurers databases but not the police.

  20. #20
    Master
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    A few years back I was getting letters from various insurance companies wanting additional information on cars insured at my address, I kept the letters and made various calls to the insurance companies.

    Then things got tricky.

    I received a court summons for an unpaid speeding fine, the car was insured via my home address.

    Went to the local police station with all the correspondence and let them sort it out.

    No problems since.





    Quote Originally Posted by Kingstepper View Post
    My 19 yo son was stopped by police late one night recently (after following him for a while) and the reason they gave was that his car was insured in London but he was in Essex (seems spurious to me but never mind).

    The strange thing is though, they said that someone else has insured the car - the police showed him this on their tablet so seems correct. I would have pressed them on this - do 2 insurers show on their system etc. He is properly insured himself of course.

    Why would anyone do this? Have they cloned his number plate or there's some other motive?

  21. #21
    Master mjrennie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Morgan View Post
    What does ask mid come back with?

    https://ownvehicle.askmid.com
    I asked for my Reg...not on the database. Definitely insured though. Odd.

  22. #22
    Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by mjrennie View Post
    I asked for my Reg...not on the database. Definitely insured though. Odd.
    Be careful with that, if you get an anpr stop and can’t satisfy the officers road side they’ll likely have the car towed and you’ll be hit with the towing and storage fees.

    Unlikely to get anything back from the insurance or plod for those costs.

  23. #23
    Master
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    I strongly suspect the previous owner has let the insurance run to policy termination date as it's probably a low premium car (if 19 year old is driving) and the hassle of phoning/ tiny refund from insurer has put them off.

    Sent from my CLT-L09 using Tapatalk

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