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Thread: Touch screen controls in cars, are they dangerous?

  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by adrianw View Post
    Can you please show me one country that has approved the Tesla autopilot? As I said earlier it is currently marketing and PR, you cannot legally take both hands off the steering wheel.
    No, I cant Adrian because I know that legislation hasn’t been passed for it. It’s not about the technology, the technology is already there more or less, it’s about the accountability if/when it goes wrong. We live in a claim culture and if legislation passes that allows full autonomous driving and at fault accident then occurs while the car is in full autonomous mode, the manufacturer is going to be accountable and sued. It would end up costing companies millions. That’s why screens always have warnings on them when the car is started up warning the driver to not allow the screen to distract them from the road.

  2. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by jaytip View Post
    No, I cant Adrian because I know that legislation hasn’t been passed for it. It’s not about the technology, the technology is already there more or less, it’s about the accountability if/when it goes wrong. We live in a claim culture and if legislation passes that allows full autonomous driving and at fault accident then occurs while the car is in full autonomous mode, the manufacturer is going to be accountable and sued. It would end up costing companies millions. That’s why screens always have warnings on them when the car is started up warning the driver to not allow the screen to distract them from the road.
    It is all about the technology, it has not been developed to the point that it can be used in any way yet and until a system can be developed that can recognise a singularity or make a decision it will not be approved. The same attitude to risk has to be employed as is applied to aircraft. At current rates of development it is estimated to be 30 years away.

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by adrianw View Post
    It is all about the technology, it has not been developed to the point that it can be used in any way yet and until a system can be developed that can recognise a singularity or make a decision it will not be approved. The same attitude to risk has to be employed as is applied to aircraft. At current rates of development it is estimated to be 30 years away.
    I think we will agree to disagree on this one Adrian. The video I posted above shows the car driving from point A to point B with ZERO intervention from the driver despite the route taking in traffic lights, junctions, merging with other traffic, generally everything a driver would do in a regular car, but the driver of this car didn’t have to intervene once.
    Technology always fails at some point, it doesn’t matter what it is applied to. Robots, watches, calculators, tv’s. There is no technological product ever invented that has a 100% guarantee. That IMHO is why legislation is the sticking point for fully autonomous cars.
    The video above proved it works, but it doesn’t prove that it’s not infallible.

  4. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by jaytip View Post
    I think we will agree to disagree on this one Adrian. The video I posted above shows the car driving from point A to point B with ZERO intervention from the driver despite the route taking in traffic lights, junctions, merging with other traffic, generally everything a driver would do in a regular car, but the driver of this car didn’t have to intervene once.
    Technology always fails at some point, it doesn’t matter what it is applied to. Robots, watches, calculators, tv’s. There is no technological product ever invented that has a 100% guarantee. That IMHO is why legislation is the sticking point for fully autonomous cars.
    The video above proved it works, but it doesn’t prove that it’s not infallible.
    No we won’t, but I will have one last try, the autonomous vehicle is approaching a zebra or pelican crossing , next to the crossing is a man holding his phone writing a text, what does the car do?

  5. #55
    Some of todays cars are going to look incredibly dated in just a few years, technology moves so quickly what was cutting edge in 2000 must look like stone tools to a 12 year old.


    Plus the software will likely become incompatible with the latest phones.


    I wouldn't want heater controls on a touchscreen, or too many audio controls. That said if the voice control was good I could be persuaded.

  6. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by kace View Post
    Some of todays cars are going to look incredibly dated in just a few years, technology moves so quickly what was cutting edge in 2000 must look like stone tools to a 12 year old.


    Plus the software will likely become incompatible with the latest phones.


    I wouldn't want heater controls on a touchscreen, or too many audio controls. That said if the voice control was good I could be persuaded.
    The next development is automotive OLED screens in place of TFT, the advantage is that they can be built into things as opposed to being bolted on, the first application is CMR systems, the dashboard as we know it will disappear very quickly, the touch control is just a digitiser and work on anything.
    Last edited by adrianw; 26th September 2019 at 08:59.

  7. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by RobDad View Post
    I’m looking for a new car at the moment and my wife has 2 stipulations: A manual gearbox and a proper handbrake.
    Has your wife had an extended test drive in an automatic? Without trying to offend, she sounds very much like my mum a couple of years ago. She insisted on a manual and my Dad ignored her and bought an X1 with the 8 speed automatic gear box. I’ve got the manual version and asked her the other day if she’d swap cars. No chance was her answer.

    I may have misjudged your missus and she’s more the type who likes to do burn outs and hand brake turns in McDonalds car park, in which case a manual gear box and proper hand brake is much more fun.

  8. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by kace View Post
    Some of todays cars are going to look incredibly dated in just a few years, technology moves so quickly what was cutting edge in 2000 must look like stone tools to a 12 year old.


    Plus the software will likely become incompatible with the latest phones.


    I wouldn't want heater controls on a touchscreen, or too many audio controls. That said if the voice control was good I could be persuaded.

    The looking dated & lack of compatability with newer tech is part of the reason for it. The cars will become obsolete or become problematic faster, so you'll get a new one.

  9. #59
    My first car had my favourite dashboard, like the one pictured, but I had a hidden pusher on the glove box so it looked a little more minimal.

    VW Beetle

  10. #60
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    I persuaded my wife to swap to automatic last year, it took some work but she now agrees with me, automatics are easier to drive and make far more sense in everyday driving. She had a driving lesson in an auto and that helped convert her.

    Apart from classic cars, I’d never choose a manual over auto, but you do need one with a reasonable amount of power.

    As for cars becoming ‘ dated’ because they won’t be compatible with phones.........almost fell of my chair laughing when I read this! Some of us don’t give a damn about the bluetooth crap, I’d be more likely to pull my own teeth out as connect a phone to my car, it’s not necessary or desirable for me.

    Cars are being perceived like phones with an engine and wheels, but some if us still see beyond that, I look at what the car’s got to offer and I’m not swayed by all the bells and whistles. A good sound system is a ‘must’ for me, but beyond that I don’t care, I very rarely use sat- nav or any of the so- called ‘infotainment’ features.
    Last edited by walkerwek1958; 25th September 2019 at 19:40.

  11. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by walkerwek1958 View Post
    I persuaded my wife to swap to automatic last year, it took some work but she now agrees with me, automatics are easier to drive and make far more sense in everyday driving. She had a driving lesson in an auto and that helped convert her.

    Apart from classic cars, I’d never choose a manual over auto, but you do need one with a reasonable amount of power.

    As for cars becoming ‘ dated’ because they won’t be compatible with phones.........almost fell of my chair laughing when I read this! Some of us don’t give a damn about the bluetooth crap, I’d be more likely to pull my own teeth out as connect a phone to my car, it’s not necessary or desirable for me.

    Cars are being perceived like phones with an engine and wheels, but some if us still see beyond that, I look at what the car’s got to offer and I’m not swayed by all the bells and whistles. A good sound system is a ‘must’ for me, but beyond that I don’t care, I very rarely use sat- nav or any of the so- called ‘infotainment’ features.
    If a good sound system is a must, don’t dismiss hooking your phone up via Bluetooth and blasting your favourite tunes into your head. It might even make you happy.

  12. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by adrianw View Post
    No we won’t, but I will have one last try, the autonomous vehicle is approaching a zebra or pelican crossing , next to the crossing is a man holding his phone writing a text, what does the car do?
    Send him a text to say stop day dreaming?

  13. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huertecilla View Post
    Agreed.
    +1.
    Fas est ab hoste doceri

  14. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Benji053 View Post
    If a good sound system is a must, don’t dismiss hooking your phone up via Bluetooth and blasting your favourite tunes into your head. It might even make you happy.
    My phone’s a phone, doesn’t have any tunes but I guess it could if it had to.However, I have a large collection of flat silver things called CDs.........they produce excellent sound on a good system and I’m happy to continue using them.

    Proper old- school hi-fi is my thing, those big black vinyl things sound particularly nice!

    What I really can’t stand in cars is mediocre speakers and poor amplification, no matter what sound source you use it’ll never sound good, but that’s a separate debate. It’s excusable in cheaper cars but not on the premium brands.

  15. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by chrisparker View Post
    Has your wife had an extended test drive in an automatic? Without trying to offend, she sounds very much like my mum a couple of years ago. She insisted on a manual and my Dad ignored her and bought an X1 with the 8 speed automatic gear box. I’ve got the manual version and asked her the other day if she’d swap cars. No chance was her answer.

    I may have misjudged your missus and she’s more the type who likes to do burn outs and hand brake turns in McDonalds car park, in which case a manual gear box and proper hand brake is much more fun.
    We owned an auto Volvo V70 for a couple of years and if I’m honest I didn’t particularly prefer it over a manual either. I bought that without asking her, and she just got in and drove it. I don’t doubt they’re easier/lazier to drive but after 30 years + driving I don’t even think about changing gear tbh. I also find the lack of a proper handbrake a bit annoying so I have to say I don’t really disagree with her!
    Also worth pointing out we live in rural Norfolk so traffic jams and queues are not really part of our daily drive, more poorly lit back country roads (I’m not a heathen and rather like led headlights!)


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    Quote Originally Posted by chrisparker View Post
    My first car had my favourite dashboard, like the one pictured, but I had a hidden pusher on the glove box so it looked a little more minimal.
    Lóve it.

    Preferrably automatic.

    The things from the interior mirror though... Distracting and obstructing the view. Took the mirror out of my cabrio for that reason btw; not much of a view through the rear porthole anyway.


    Present resident female was adamant about manual for her latest car. It is .....béééép.....

    The ´sporty´ argument is crap too. Even F1 cars are semi-automatic and would be cvt if thta had not been banned because it gave (Williams) an unfair advantage.

    Bottom line: Out with stupid distracting screens, in with automatics.
    Last edited by Huertecilla; 26th September 2019 at 08:34.

  17. #67
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    It's a pain in the arse if you've more than one car and only one of them has a touch screen.

  18. #68
    As for cars becoming ‘ dated’ because they won’t be compatible with phones.........almost fell of my chair laughing when I read this! Some of us don’t give a damn about the bluetooth crap, I’d be more likely to pull my own teeth out as connect a phone to my car, it’s not necessary or desirable for me.

    Cars are being perceived like phones with an engine and wheels, but some if us still see beyond that, I look at what the car’s got to offer and I’m not swayed by all the bells and whistles. A good sound system is a ‘must’ for me, but beyond that I don’t care, I very rarely use sat- nav or any of the so- called ‘infotainment’ features.

    While it might not be something that interests you I would imagine that the many people (the majority?) will want to use the features that their car offers, thats fine today but in a few years time when they've changed phones and they can no longer get the sat nav to display, or play music, or send or receive messages they'll be annoyed at the outdated technology.

    I have a large collection of flat silver things called CDs.........they produce excellent sound on a good system and I’m happy to continue using them.

    You'll be as likely to find a cd player built in as a tape play soon.

  19. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by RobDad View Post
    I’m looking for a new car at the moment and my wife has 2 stipulations: A manual gearbox and a proper handbrake.
    Definitely worth trying a car with fully automatic handbrake. I was apprehensive about the one on our new Skoda, but it just works. Using a handbrake on our other cars is a chore now.

    Pete

  20. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by walkerwek1958 View Post
    I believe touch screens are a step backwards in terms of safety, it's impossible to use them without taking your eyes off the road whereas old-fashioned switches and knobs could by adjusted by touch and feel. For the older drivers (like me) who need varifocal glasses it's difficult to read the damned screen without moving your head slightly, all of which is a distraction from watching the road ahead. The car makers like them because they're cheap to produce, buyers like them because they feel 'modern', but to me they make simple tasks potentially more dangerous.

    Keeping my eyes on the road at all times has served me well over the years, I intend to continue doing so.
    Absolutely in agreement.
    My old man even got rid of a new car because he found the touch screen so distracting from the road and because when on an uneven surface (i.e. most of our A and B roads) even though he knew where to touch the screen (without looking) his finger often missed the target because of the uneven road.

  21. #71
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    I have a Volvo XC60 and I don't like the touchscreen at all and I do think it is distracting. The Volvo dealership advocate using the voice control system but I'm not keen on that either. Much prefer the "mouse" based system on my previous Beemers and Audis. With hindsight I wish I hadn't ordered the Volvo and I would definitely avoid any car with a similar system in the future.

  22. #72
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    I test drove a volvo v40 yesterday which has a screen but is worked by knobs as the rest of the car functions are I thought it worked quite well but all the reviews say its old fashioned it also has the added bonus of not having fingerprints on the screen

  23. #73
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    I am struggling to understand what there is to adjust when you are on the move. In my most complicated car all the settings are made before I turn a wheel and it’s rare that I need to adjust anything whilst driving.

  24. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris_in_the_UK View Post
    And you think this is a good thing?
    I never said that it was. Simply stating that it can do it.

  25. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by bobdog View Post
    I am struggling to understand what there is to adjust when you are on the move. In my most complicated car all the settings are made before I turn a wheel and it’s rare that I need to adjust anything whilst driving.
    I regularly alter temperature, fan speed, airflow direction etc during a journey, especially if you have the fan on high for initial demisting.

  26. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ruggertech View Post
    I regularly alter temperature, fan speed, airflow direction etc during a journey, especially if you have the fan on high for initial demisting.
    A lot of cars have Auto temp control, set temp/airflow before setting off and no need to touch it again, I would imagine cars with touchscreen control have this facility. Still at a loss to understand what they are all fiddling with!

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    Quote Originally Posted by bobdog View Post
    A lot of cars have Auto temp control, set temp/airflow before setting off and no need to touch it again, I would imagine cars with touchscreen control have this facility. Still at a loss to understand what they are all fiddling with!
    I do.

    It makes a world of difference whether you have the sun shining on you through the glass or not.
    Also a change in humidity affects your perception of temp.
    And that is just two aspects.

    I gréatly prefer a simple slide of turn knob I can faff with without looking. Same thing the fan as well as where it blows to.
    I háte the touchscreen of the family vehicle. It even automatically combines certain óther settings with particular ones which you then have to unselect and then I am lucky I cán choose that!
    Just give me three knobs or three slides and an on/of button for airco.

  28. #78
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    Well I have my Auto set at 22c and I very rarely touch it, too hot and it brings in the AC, too cold and the hot air blowers are ramped up all helped by the sensors placed all round the interior. I can honestly say I rarely touch anything apart from the indicator stalk and occasionally setting the wipers to Auto.

  29. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by bobdog View Post
    A lot of cars have Auto temp control, set temp/airflow before setting off and no need to touch it again, I would imagine cars with touchscreen control have this facility. Still at a loss to understand what they are all fiddling with!
    What if you want to turn the temperature down ??
    Is that fiddling or getting it just right for the occupants ?

  30. #80
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    I couldn't even change the radio on the c220 19 plate the insurerers lent me... Decidedly complicated.. Don't mention the sat nav

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  31. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by reggie747 View Post
    What if you want to turn the temperature down ??
    Is that fiddling or getting it just right for the occupants ?
    From trial and error I have found that 22c is ideal for me, it is a dual zone system so if the passenger needs to adjust their side they are quite capable of doing so without any fiddling from me.

  32. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by bobdog View Post
    From trial and error I have found that 22c is ideal for me, it is a dual zone system so if the passenger needs to adjust their side they are quite capable of doing so without any fiddling from me.
    I bet there was plenty of fiddling going on with your trial and error then ?

  33. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by reggie747 View Post
    I bet there was plenty of fiddling going on with your trial and error then ?
    Oh yeah, but not when Ime driving which is why I like the new systems that can all be set up prior to driving.

  34. #84

  35. #85
    I am struggling to understand what there is to adjust when you are on the move.
    Radio station?

  36. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by kace View Post
    Radio station?
    Steering wheel control or voice control.

  37. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by bobdog View Post
    I am struggling to understand what there is to adjust when you are on the move. In my most complicated car all the settings are made before I turn a wheel and it’s rare that I need to adjust anything whilst driving.
    I find that sometimes in a journey I want it either hotter or colder, depending on the temp outside etc., so it's nice to be able to adjust it easily without having to complete three levels of Super Mario to do it. Also I like to turn off the stop start as I dislike the delay pulling away at junctions/roundabouts etc. Yes I know it supposedly starts in less time than a sparrows fart but there is still a delay. Changing driving mode is also something that I want to do at certain times, so it's handy to be able to just put your finger on it so to speak.
    Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.

  38. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldoakknives View Post
    I find that sometimes in a journey I want it either hotter or colder, depending on the temp outside etc., so it's nice to be able to adjust it easily without having to complete three levels of Super Mario to do it. Also I like to turn off the stop start as I dislike the delay pulling away at junctions/roundabouts etc. Yes I know it supposedly starts in less time than a sparrows fart but there is still a delay. Changing driving mode is also something that I want to do at certain times, so it's handy to be able to just put your finger on it so to speak.
    Ime still failing to grasp this, Stop/Start you switch off before you drive off not while you are driving. Temperature control is covered by the Auto function presuming you have it which I would imagine you have.Driving mode is usually by a button so it’s a conscious physical action bit like switching traction control off. The vast majority of settings/adjustments should be made prior to driving.

  39. #89
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    There isn’t even a debate to be had here.

    Screens in lieu of tactile controls is pure form over function.

  40. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by bobdog View Post
    Ime still failing to grasp this, Stop/Start you switch off before you drive off not while you are driving. Temperature control is covered by the Auto function presuming you have it which I would imagine you have.Driving mode is usually by a button so it’s a conscious physical action bit like switching traction control off. The vast majority of settings/adjustments should be made prior to driving.
    Stop start is easier and quicker to find if it's switch/button. No changing screens to get to it. How long do you want to faff about before driving off? Yes auto temperature is good but sometimes outside temperatures change, so it's nice to have the option to easily change it. Can't see it's progress having to set a temperature and then put up with it whatever happens until you stop again. Check out the driving mode in the new Range Rovers, it's on a touchscreen page.
    Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.

  41. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by walkerwek1958 View Post
    I believe touch screens are a step backwards in terms of safety, it's impossible to use them without taking your eyes off the road whereas old-fashioned switches and knobs could by adjusted by touch and feel. For the older drivers (like me) who need varifocal glasses it's difficult to read the damned screen without moving your head slightly, all of which is a distraction from watching the road ahead. The car makers like them because they're cheap to produce, buyers like them because they feel 'modern', but to me they make simple tasks potentially more dangerous.

    Keeping my eyes on the road at all times has served me well over the years, I intend to continue doing so.
    I agree 100%. Cars (and worse, motorbikes) are becoming mobile smart phones, with all the marketing around screens and entertainment and connectivity and finding your way through endless menus for a function that had one switch previously is retrograde for me, especially since I neither use nor want 95% of the functions.

    When a new motorbike is reviewed now, all the reviewers talk about is the dash, and how many “riding modes” the bike has - all bikes, even not very powerful ones, now appear to need a raft of pointless electronics to stop the rider sending it into a ditch whilst at the same time presenting a PlayStation dash to fiddle with thus ensuring higher likelihood of bike/ditch interface.

    The “active suspension” buttons features are used to cover up the fact the suspension is crap on most new bikes. I don’t know about cars, but I’d imagine it’s not much different.

    It’s why I’ve gone from new cars and bikes every 2-3 years to keeping the ones I’ve got. If I buy anything else it won’t be new, especially now cars have the EU data collection devices in, which will be turned into the speed limiters in due course.



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  42. #92
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    Another thing I've found on the last 3 cars I had Toyota Auris vw golf and Ford Focus is that if there is a couple of years difference between your phone and the car they never work properly, and a Toyota tech told me the software on a brand new car could be 3 years out of date if it's an older model

  43. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by ptcoll View Post
    Definitely worth trying a car with fully automatic handbrake. I was apprehensive about the one on our new Skoda, but it just works. Using a handbrake on our other cars is a chore now.

    Pete
    Got one in our XC60. Bloody awful thing imho


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  44. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by bobdog View Post
    Steering wheel control or voice control.

    I get a full list of stations if I try and use the steering controls, so radio 1 then 2 or maybe 1 extra. It's a horrible. Easier to use the touch screen and hit a preset.

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