Reply With QuoteNot worth the hassle. Hopefully the buyer will understand.
This morning Royal Mail refused to take the G Shock that needs to go to Moscow stating that as it contained a battery it was likely to be returned or even destroyed. I asked if they couldn't put a 'caution contains battery' type sticker on but no can do.
I then went looking for a a DHL place but they said the same.
Any ideas folks?
I was wondering about FedEx or UPS?
The couriers websites aren't very helpful and I've wasted 2 hours of my life this morning traipsing round trying to send this!
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Not worth the hassle. Hopefully the buyer will understand.
There is no option - it need to get to Moscow some how.
Sent from my SM-G970F using TZ-UK mobile app
Batteries within devices are fine, it's the loose batteries that are the issue (so told to me by my PO).
I'd recommend thoroughly reading the prohibited/restricted items list and going to another PO, suitably armed with the information.
Maybe just don't tell them that it contains a battery. RMSD have the same policy so I always say 'watch parts' for the contents which is technically a true statement anyway!
They don't have that policy, Ryan. Batteries are permitted when connected to the devices in both national and international mail. Read the below:Originally Posted by ryanb741
https://www.postoffice.co.uk/mail/uk-what-can-i-send
Edit: see markrlondon's post for why that link I've provided isn't as comprehensive as it states it is
Last edited by hughtrimble; 22nd September 2019 at 11:29.
Thanks folks
I tried arguing the toss with the workman in the post office who at one point went off to 'get some advice' but computer still said no.
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I've had similar, but found taking their printed guidance and highlighting the relevant bit and handing it to them has solved the issue.
I had a similar conversation in a Post Office once.
In my case it was a Tag Monaco which when I explained was a watch that did not have a battery the postal worker could not grasp the concept of analogue and did not believe me.
Conversely I took an Omega F300 into a Timpson's on the off chance that they might have a battery for it the "technician" refused to believe it would need a battery as it was an Omega and all Omegas were clockwork. He even tried to have a go at winding it up , luckily I grabbed it back before he snapped the crown off.
It's always a strange one this, couriers of all flavours seem happy to transport goods to consumers but then reel back in horror when asked to do the reverse. I bought a strimmer battery from eBay, it went faulty after a month but then couldn't get anyone to take it for shipping.
Sent through the ether by diddling with radio waves
It depends on battery type. It used to be that specific battery prohibitions and restrictions were listed in separate documents but I note that Royal Mail have now combined them[1].
In brief for international mail sent by Royal Mail[2] (referencing the rules set out in [1]):-
(1) Lithium batteries CANNOT be sent on their own.
(2) Lithium batteries CANNOT be sent with the devices with which they are meant to work if they are NOT connected to the devices.
(3) Lithium batteries CAN be sent when connected to the devices with which they are meant to work. See [1] for special packaging info.
(4) Used alkaline metal batteries CANNOT be sent at all (which implies that alkaline metal batteries installed in devices are prohibited).
(5) Brand new alkaline metal batteries CAN be sent in their original retail packaging.
(6) Brand new alkaline metal batteries CAN be sent in their original retail packaging with (but NOT connected to) electronic devices.
(7) Most watches use either lithium batteries (see (1), (2) and (3) above) or silver oxide batteries. Regrettably, the Royal Mail guidance does not explicitly mention silver oxide batteries but I as far as I can tell they are a type of alkaline metal battery (as per (4), (5) and (6) above).[3]
(8) These points above are a summary of Royal Mail's airmail/international rules. Some destinations may well have different, more restrictive, rules[4].
Many G-Shocks use lithium batteries and so (as per the rules above) can be sent with the correct packaging labelling. As per (4) above and as far as I can tell, G-Shocks that use silver oxide batteries should, officially, be sent only without their batteries -- but if you don't tell the truth about what it is in the package then no one at all is going be able to tell differently. There really is no way to tell the difference from the outside. Even on an x-ray, an (allowed) lithium battery will look just like a (disallowed) alkaline metal or silver oxide battery.
Also, Post office staff commonly get all this wrong. They often incorrectly lump all batteries together when, as above, there are significant differences depending on the battery type. To be fair, this is hardly surprising when the rules are rather Byzantine and non-intuitive.
Footnotes:-
1: 'Prohibited and restricted items - advice for personal customers' https://personal.help.royalmail.com/...detail/a_id/96
2: This summary covers international Royal Mail post only. Royal Mail domestic post has different detailed rules. Parcelforce (domestic or international) may or may not have separate and different prohibitions and restrictions.
3: As I mentioned several years ago when this issue was previously discussed, I've been meaning to write to Royal Mail to obtain a written determination from them as to whether or not they classify silver oxide batteries as alkaline metal batteries. I've not yet done it. But I suspect they do classify silver oxide as alkaline metal.
4: 'Country guides' https://www.royalmail.com/personal/i...country-guides
Last edited by markrlondon; 22nd September 2019 at 04:03.
As per (8) above, I went to this page, https://www.royalmail.com/russia, to check Russia's specific limitations.
Indeed, there is an additional prohibition compared to Royal Mail's limitations above: Russia absolutely prohibits "Lithium batteries and equipment containing lithium batteries".
So a Casio G-Shock with a lithium battery in it cannot legitimately be sent to Russia without removing the battery and sending it without the battery.
Because the net combined effect of the Russian limitations and the the Royal Mail international limitations is to prohibit all small batteries in devices I would not try to fake it. I'd only send a G-Shock to Russia via Royal Mail that has had its battery removed (whether lithium or silver oxide). One advantage of sending a watch without batteries is that it does not have any special packaging requirements so is less likely to be stolen in transit.
Last edited by markrlondon; 22nd September 2019 at 04:03.
What about 'Solar' G-Shocks? Presumably they contain a lithium battery.
I stand corrected!
Why do they have contradictory rules though? Makes it rather challenging (and helps to explain why the staff can sometimes differ in their permitting or preventing the postage of the same items).
This is a solar G Shock that came from Russia no problem - I am returning it to the seller who has refunded my money.
I thought that I would try and package it with a battery sticker (taken from an amazon box which another solar g Shock was delivered in) so was hoping that RM might take it like this.
This may cover RM's rules but if Russia wont let anything in with lithium batteries then its not going to work.
If I open up the watch and start messing about taking the battery out I run the risk of the seller not honouring his agreement to refund which is based upon it arriving back in exactly the same condition it left with no adjustments etc having been attempted
What a bloody nightmare!
I am assuming that your allowed to enter Russia wearing a G Shock? Presumably some pilots wear them......
Last edited by Velorum; 22nd September 2019 at 12:55.
Perhaps I should just get rid of the battery sticker, describe it as watch parts and hope for the best?
Seems sensible. I suppose if it gets opened during transit and delayed or returned to you you’re out the cost of a watch... but if you can’t send it with a battery the you’re no farther ahead.
Yes they contain lithium rechargeable cells so are covered by the lithium regulations.
(Of course, the original power source for Kinetic and solar watches was a capacitor and the capacitor would not be covered by the battery regulations!)
Because bureaucrats love complicated and confusing rules that are all too easy to contravene. ;-)
Also, if anything, the rules are surely the wrong way round: Lithium cells are more dangerous than alkaline ones in general as I understand it and yet the rules for lithium ones are actually (slightly) more liberal than for alkaline ones. Weird.
Last edited by markrlondon; 22nd September 2019 at 22:08.
That would be my plan TBH.
When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........
Considering that this is a return then, yes, it seems best by far to just lie and describe it as watch parts or similar. No warning labels. It will probably go through ok.
It might even be wise to go to a different Post Office in order to post it just in case the staff at the first one might remember you. ;-)
I think the fear about batteries in the post (and as cargo) is that a fire might start unseen. The runaway effect with lithium batteries is particularly dangerous.
Ridiculous these regulations apply to a tiny button cell present in watches, PC boards and many other devices. In the past, before common adoption of and well publicised incidents involving higher capacity (phone and laptop sized) batteries these wouldn’t have been bothered with.
A customer may genuinely not know that one is present in their equipment.
Ive removed the warning sticker and will try the post office tomorrow.
Your right Mark, best to go to another one - the Spanish lady in the one I usually use will definitely remember as she tends to chat to me when I go in there
It's funny Ian , I always feel as though the counter lady thinks I am lying when I say "yes it's a watch , no battery it's mechanical".
I've been in numerous times and say the same thing every time I sell a mechanical watch . I'm being honest but I detect they somehow disbelieve me .
I think they must think I say it just to get around the whole battery debacle. In which case if it was a battery operated watch I'd say the same anyway. - "it's a wind up mechanical clock".
In fact tell them it's a 'time measuring device ' - that seems to skirt around the whole issue. I'm certain some sellers state that to avoid customs charges where it would be normally labelled 'wristwatch'. If they can use that little hack, why can't you ?
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Yup, it's ridiculous isn't it. As you say, these regulations are not (as far as I know) really intended to affect one off shipments of small watch-size batteries and yet that is exactly what they do. If only common sense could officially prevail but that would be way too simple.
Me too. I always feel guilty about it! ;-)
As an aside, this kind of misdescription can actually be counter-productive. I've experienced this myself. When coming into the UK, watches only have VAT to pay and (in practice) have zero Customs Duty to pay. However, many other categories of "instrument" or "measuring device" have both VAT and (sometimes considerable) Customs Duty to be paid. Thus the recipient can end up paying more import tax than is really due due to a misdescription on the customs declaration!
As I mentioned, I had this once. The sender had described my watch as "measuring instrument". The customs agent misread it as "musical instrument" and I got charged the not-inconsiderable Customs Duty rate for musical instruments (as well as the extra VAT on the incorrectly charged Customs Duty!). Luckily I was able to contact Border Force with evidence of the correct package contents and get them to refund me the overpaid taxes.
Hehe, covert operations essential. ;-)
I went to a post office in Crawley this morning and sent it tracked and insured. When the woman asked what was in it I said "various things to do with watches" and she just smiled and said "OK" before processing it. She didn't ask about batteries so technically I haven't told any lies.
I will now keep my fingers crossed.
Hoping it gets through ok. Most likely will.
There must be millions of small lithium and metal alkaline batteries being sent incorrectly by post.
Last edited by markrlondon; 24th September 2019 at 02:12.
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