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Thread: One of these is a Clone... it’s frightening

  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrGrumpy View Post
    Steinhart. Ginault sounds like it'd be too pricey for me!
    I've got a Grovana Coral Reef II. They make the cases for Steinhart. The Rolex sub is a nice retro looking dive watch design made by many companies these days.

  2. #102
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    Is it the SD? It looks really s*^&.

  3. #103
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    Ginault sounds like it'd be too pricey fakey for me!

  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by demonloop View Post
    The fit of the end links to the case is the giveaway for me, it’s much neater on the Sub than the “SD”
    Just picking up on this, but that is the shape of 116600 end links...

  5. #105
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    Who pays 1.5K euros for a Ginault?

    That's more than 1/4 price of the real thing.

    I like homages but for me the whole point is that they're cheap and disposable fun.

  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by JPE View Post
    Who pays 1.5K euros for a Ginault?

    That's more than 1/4 price of the real thing.

    I like homages but for me the whole point is that they're cheap and disposable fun.
    Fair enough, but for others they're a way of enjoying a classic design without paying what they see as an excessive brand premium.

    Personally, I thought the finishing on my Ginault was at least on a par with the 5 digit Rolexes I'd owned and several elements of it (lume, legibility and bracelet) were clearly better. In which case the question becomes, do you want to spend almost 4 times as much for "the real thing"?
    Last edited by ColDaspin; 23rd September 2019 at 21:03.

  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by ColDaspin View Post
    ......... In which case the question becomes, do you want to spend almost 4 times as much for "the real thing"?
    Well........yes, if you want to own a Rolex.
    Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.

  8. #108
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    Going off at a tangent - there's a young lad in the office who is often wearing a whole range of (seemingly) high class watches - Audemars, Patek etc whilst today he was slumming it with a gold effect Rolex Yachtmaster. I presume they will all be fake - if he's got that much money, what's he doing as a menial in a local council! I kind of wonder why he doesn't forget the fakes and buy one half decent one....

  9. #109
    I thought te bottom one was a fake!

  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by ColDaspin View Post
    Fair enough, but for others they're a way of enjoying a classic design without paying what they see as an excessive brand premium.

    Personally, I thought the finishing on my Ginault was at least on a par with the 5 digit Rolexes I'd owned and several elements of it (lume, legibility and bracelet) were clearly better. In which case the question becomes, do you want to spend almost 4 times as much for "the real thing"?
    Why put "real thing" in the quotation marks?

    There are a lot of discussions how brand XXX has made much better bracelet or clasp than a Submariner. Or how the model XXX is “much better done” than a Submariner. Well yeah, but they’re still not the Rolex Submariner – and never will be.

    There is a whole industry built around Submariner homages. It’s THE model that most manufacturers aspire to have in their lineup – and a measuring stick that all dive watches get compared to, like it or not.

  11. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by bond View Post
    Ha yes you may get to 50m if that with steaming up) moisture and what not. Most are with the DG movement which can last forever or be a lemon and die on the first day. Roll a dice.
    I don't think you can trust these watches as tool watches , merely showpieces to fool friends and enemies. As mentioned people say spend the money on a brand you can trust . At least the specs should be compounded in the performance and longevity. There are a few characters on Instagram offering super clones with a 3135 and even say " a full set" for over £1000 . Then the ETA 2824 is £500 and so on .

    What is "the DG movement"?

  12. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Kenney View Post
    What is "the DG movement"?
    The 'DG' designation indicates that the movement was manufactured by Dixmont Guangzhou.

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  13. #113
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    I’m on holiday in Turkey at the moment and, even as a confirmed Omega fanboy, I’m struggling at times to spot the classic tells without magnification.

    The really big issue I can see straight away is the size of the case - I’m wearing my SM300 and popping it against the current fake, it’s only around 2/3 the case height. The non-genuine Watch wears really high on the wrist.

    For clarity, I’ve gotten quite friendly with one of the local sellers, who spotted me looking through the window and noticed my watch - he spotted that it was genuine from 10 paces away and was happy to talk watches for some time with no expectation to buy.

    Interestingly, his main observation of people who buy fake Rolex is that they mainly want quartz, not auto - he has some really nice-looking watches (all fake, but they do look good, that’s just how it is) but all anyone is buying, much to his dismay, are the battery versions.

    Oh, and I’ve never seen so many people wearing very shiny ‘high-end’, ‘expensive’ watches. All quartz, I’d be prepared to bet.

  14. #114
    Master Jon Kenney's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bond View Post
    The 'DG' designation indicates that the movement was manufactured by Dixmont Guangzhou.

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    Thanks. Having lived 40 minutes from Guangzhou for over four years, I'd never heard of the DG movement. What I do know is that some Guangzhou markets sell watches by weight as opposed to units

  15. #115
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    I have a fake BLNR. No reason to be ashamed about it. Would buy one at RRP if I was offered one but I'm refusing to pay an extra 5k+ to a flipper.

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  16. #116
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    The only reason most (?99%) people buy a Rolex is so they can say 'I have a Rolex'.

    The only reason most (?99%) people buy a Replica is so they can say 'I have Rolex'.

    What's the difference?

    Rolex are impossible to buy, and tbh I'd rather spend £300 than £10,000 for a watch these days.

    I'd buy one to try if I had any idea where they are sold.

    PS I do have a (genuine!) Rolex, and have owned several in the past. But really, they're a daft waste of money and I would never spend that much on a watch again.

    All that said, I dont condone or promote replicas, and especially not trying to defraud people, but I do understand the apparent attraction.

  17. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Kenney View Post
    Thanks. Having lived 40 minutes from Guangzhou for over four years, I'd never heard of the DG movement. What I do know is that some Guangzhou markets sell watches by weight as opposed to units
    That's interesting regarding weight .

    I think they are a mushroom group for a subsidiary of other companies that are able to make a claim to the DG movement title all in various degrees of quality and craftsmanship , some rougher than others. There's a few movements factories in China Tianjin, Shanghai, Hangzhou, Guangzhou, Liaocheng, Nanning and Liaoning.
    The most well known movement factories are Tianjin Seagull, Shanghai Watch Co, and Guangzhou Dixmont. I've seen a DG movement 2813 . It stopped working after taking a bump and then decided a month later continue working fine .

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    Last edited by bond; 25th September 2019 at 15:35.

  18. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by ach5 View Post
    The only reason most (?99%) people buy a Rolex is so they can say 'I have a Rolex'.

    The only reason most (?99%) people buy a Replica is so they can say 'I have Rolex'.

    What's the difference?

    Rolex are impossible to buy, and tbh I'd rather spend £300 than £10,000 for a watch these days.

    I'd buy one to try if I had any idea where they are sold.

    PS I do have a (genuine!) Rolex, and have owned several in the past. But really, they're a daft waste of money and I would never spend that much on a watch again.

    All that said, I dont condone or promote replicas, and especially not trying to defraud people, but I do understand the apparent attraction.
    Very good.

  19. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by ach5 View Post
    The only reason most (?99%) people buy a Rolex is so they can say 'I have a Rolex'.

    The only reason most (?99%) people buy a Replica is so they can say 'I have Rolex'.

    What's the difference?

    Rolex are impossible to buy, and tbh I'd rather spend £300 than £10,000 for a watch these days.

    I'd buy one to try if I had any idea where they are sold.

    PS I do have a (genuine!) Rolex, and have owned several in the past. But really, they're a daft waste of money and I would never spend that much on a watch again.

    All that said, I dont condone or promote replicas, and especially not trying to defraud people, but I do understand the apparent attraction.
    You can buy almost any Rolex within 24 hours if you pay the going rate and stop thinking about last years price. If you think Rolex is over priced then that is a valid reason not to buy one.

    However wearing a replica simply denotes the wearer has no sense of self decency. It's like buying a military medal and then wearing it, total lack of self respect.

  20. #120
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    What are you on about? A medal or any sort of award is given to you for hard work or whatever reason. Not the same as buying a watch...
    Quote Originally Posted by Mick P View Post
    You can buy almost any Rolex within 24 hours if you pay the going rate and stop thinking about last years price. If you think Rolex is over priced then that is a valid reason not to buy one.

    However wearing a replica simply denotes the wearer has no sense of self decency. It's like buying a military medal and then wearing it, total lack of self respect.
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  21. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by ach5 View Post
    The only reason most (?99%) people buy a Rolex is so they can say 'I have a Rolex'.

    The only reason most (?99%) people buy a Replica is so they can say 'I have Rolex'.

    What's the difference?

    Rolex are impossible to buy, and tbh I'd rather spend £300 than £10,000 for a watch these days.

    I'd buy one to try if I had any idea where they are sold.

    PS I do have a (genuine!) Rolex, and have owned several in the past. But really, they're a daft waste of money and I would never spend that much on a watch again.

    All that said, I dont condone or promote replicas, and especially not trying to defraud people, but I do understand the apparent attraction.
    You might get labelled a heretic for statements like that....

  22. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sibo View Post
    What are you on about? A medal or any sort of award is given to you for hard work or whatever reason. Not the same as buying a watch...

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    I was referring to military medals where unfortunately some people buy them and wear them on Rememberance day where the purpose is to look good.

  23. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mick P View Post
    I was referring to military medals where unfortunately some people buy them and wear them on Rememberance day where the purpose is to look good.
    Oh right, didn't know that was a thing

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  24. #124
    Quote Originally Posted by ach5 View Post
    The only reason most (?99%) people buy a Rolex is so they can say 'I have a Rolex'.
    100% of people I know who have a Rolex have never said 'I have a Rolex' not to me at least, and I don't think they would to friends, family or even strangers. I've had a couple, clients have them, friends have them, the woman who owns the local sandwich shop has one, yet nobody outside of watch forums ever talk about them. People don't care.

    It's a milestone brand, people tend to buy them to celebrate an achievement or occasion. They buy them because they're well made. They buy them because they're expensive. They buy them because they're a relatively safe investment. Non of which applies to fakes, so why people still buy them god only knows.

  25. #125
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    Couple of years back, I bought a homage watch with cyclops (not a fake one with Rolex logo) to get a long-term feel if I prefer cyclops when buying the real thing. Not naming the brand, it was a solid watch for less than £100- looked like the real one; wearing it for a few days to work, figured I dont prefer cyclops.
    During the weekend, out for shopping in supermarket, I didn't realize for a long time why it seemed like lot of people were staring in my direction; They had thought I had a real submariner on my wrist, and I had forgotten what I wearing. I have worn Omegas all the time, never drew that much attention, only an occasional nod from WIS.

    Any way, that ended my plans to get the real one.

  26. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by chrisparker View Post
    100% of people I know who have a Rolex have never said 'I have a Rolex' not to me at least, and I don't think they would to friends, family or even strangers. I've had a couple, clients have them, friends have them, the woman who owns the local sandwich shop has one, yet nobody outside of watch forums ever talk about them. People don't care.

    It's a milestone brand, people tend to buy them to celebrate an achievement or occasion. They buy them because they're well made. They buy them because they're expensive. They buy them because they're a relatively safe investment. Non of which applies to fakes, so why people still buy them god only knows.
    I think you are being a bit over literal there! I think what was meant was that people would say ' I have a Rolex' to themselves, as some confirmation that they'd 'made it' in some sense. Some may wish to show off about it, but most wouldn't - as you say, most people don't care that much either way, except for those who measure success in material things.

    You may not understand why people buy fakes - I partially see the attraction but wouldn't waste my money so I don't really know either - yet many people do. I guess people merely see Rolex as a flash brand - again, as you say, most people don't care and are completely uninterested in watches full stop, and couldn't care less what's inside the case or about any of the things that WIS think makes Rolex good - thus a fake Rolex appears to be equally good as a real one to most people - and cheaper!

  27. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by zenius View Post
    Couple of years back, I bought a homage watch with cyclops (not a fake one with Rolex logo) to get a long-term feel if I prefer cyclops when buying the real thing. Not naming the brand, it was a solid watch for less than £100- looked like the real one; wearing it for a few days to work, figured I dont prefer cyclops.
    During the weekend, out for shopping in supermarket, I didn't realize for a long time why it seemed like lot of people were staring in my direction; They had thought I had a real submariner on my wrist, and I had forgotten what I wearing. I have worn Omegas all the time, never drew that much attention, only an occasional nod from WIS.

    Any way, that ended my plans to get the real one.
    Cool story bro.

    When I wear real Rolex nobody stares, nobody cares.

  28. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by JPE View Post
    Why put "real thing" in the quotation marks?

    There are a lot of discussions how brand XXX has made much better bracelet or clasp than a Submariner. Or how the model XXX is “much better done” than a Submariner. Well yeah, but they’re still not the Rolex Submariner – and never will be.

    There is a whole industry built around Submariner homages. It’s THE model that most manufacturers aspire to have in their lineup – and a measuring stick that all dive watches get compared to, like it or not.
    Because, in the context of your post, that expression implies not just that you're getting Rolex but also something better (than the homage), so the quotation marks are there to highlight the fact that that element is questionable.

    Don't get me wrong, though. I'm not arguing the relative 'value' of Rolex or indeed any other brand. The market speaks and, whatever price any company can sell their watches at gives you the answer. Currently, for several Rolex models, that is well over rrp and good for them. If I were Rolex I'd jack my prices up accordingly.

  29. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by ColDaspin View Post
    If I were Rolex I'd jack my prices up accordingly.
    Yeah. By at least 20-30%. That should sort out the supply issue.

  30. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiny View Post
    Yeah. By at least 20-30%. That should sort out the supply issue.
    Supply/demand - two sides of the same coin. If Rolex increase their prices sufficiently, demand will drop and the 'supply problem' will cease to exist.

  31. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by W124 View Post
    Why spend £300 on a snide Rolex - which you know is fake, and the folks around you will assume is fake.

    I can understand why you might spend £50 on a fake, it's the same money as a Timex.
    £300 is a chunk of change you could use to buy a decent watch, and avoid the shame of supporting the fakers.
    Why spend 5K or much more on a real Rolex when the folks around you will assume it's a fake?

    I'm not a fan of fakes, but £300 is disposable cash for many people, 6, 7, 8 grand isn't and the widespread obsession with the Rolex brand (as evident here as anywhere else) is going to attract many people to fakes, it's inevitable.

    M

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  32. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrGrumpy View Post
    I think you are being a bit over literal there! I think what was meant was that people would say ' I have a Rolex' to themselves, as some confirmation that they'd 'made it' in some sense. Some may wish to show off about it, but most wouldn't - as you say, most people don't care that much either way, except for those who measure success in material things.

    You may not understand why people buy fakes - I partially see the attraction but wouldn't waste my money so I don't really know either - yet many people do. I guess people merely see Rolex as a flash brand - again, as you say, most people don't care and are completely uninterested in watches full stop, and couldn't care less what's inside the case or about any of the things that WIS think makes Rolex good - thus a fake Rolex appears to be equally good as a real one to most people - and cheaper!
    Amen.

  33. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrGrumpy View Post
    I think you are being a bit over literal there! I think what was meant was that people would say ' I have a Rolex' to themselves, as some confirmation that they'd 'made it' in some sense.
    Yes, this is indeed what I meant

  34. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Kenney View Post
    What I do know is that some Guangzhou markets sell watches by weight as opposed to units
    I used to have a very heavy Invicta diver that I joked was suitable for people who like to buy their watches by the pound. I never thought anyone would actually sell watches by weight!

  35. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by snowman View Post
    Why spend 5K or much more on a real Rolex when the folks around you will assume it's a fake?
    I don't care what other people think. I _know_ it's not a fake. That's enough for me. And even the best fakes will not look like the real thing.


  36. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by JPE View Post
    I don't care what other people think. I _know_ it's not a fake. That's enough for me.
    Rightly so, but I was responding to "Why spend £300 on a snide Rolex - which you know is fake, and the folks around you will assume is fake."

    The buyer will know it's a fake, but if he doesn't care, why would he bother what others think, any more than the owner of the real thing?

    If someone does worry that other people will assume a Rolex is a fake, surely that applies equally to the real thing.

    It's a bit like AC Cobras - There's a lot of pleasure, I'm sure, in owning the real thing, but most people will assume it's not, so if the pleasure for someone is in thinking people will be impressed then I can't see it working whether they have a fake or genuine 'insert brand of choice' here.

    I must admit, when I was in Egypt a few years ago, I did browse in the hooky-watch shops.

    Some of the fakes looked remarkably good, in the sense of I couldn't tell you what was wrong about them at even a close eye distance (I never went to the extent of handling any), but the prices were far too dear to justify all but the most reckless buying one, in my view, there's a good chance the hands would fall off before you got it home!

    As with most here, if I knew I was wearing a fake watch it would take away any pleasure for myself in wearing it, but I don't expect anyone to be impressed because I'm wearing a watch...

    M
    Last edited by snowman; 26th September 2019 at 15:23.

  37. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mick P View Post
    However wearing a replica simply denotes the wearer has no sense of self decency. It's like buying a military medal and then wearing it, total lack of self respect.
    Bit of a stretch there.

    A Rolex is a commercial product, a medal denotes, at least, service, if not some kind of outstanding act.

    Buying and wearing a medal to try and claim some kind of credit for something noteworthy really is beyond the pale.

    Buying a cheap watch that pretends to be something it isn't is a bit shabby, but a bit Division 2 by comparision.

    M

  38. #138
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    I don't know how many people assume it's a fake. If you're under 30, work at McDonalds and drive a 15-year old VW, they probably do. But I haven't seen any fakes among the middle aged business people. At least not here in Finland. I don't know anyone who owns a fake (if my Invictas don't count haha).

    I have spotted only one fake. I wrote about that in my homage article here:
    https://luxurywatches635.wordpress.c...omage-watches/

    I'm a big fan of homages myself. And I couldn't care LESS if someone wears a fake. It's just a watch. But don't tell me it's not a fake because I can and I WILL spot a 5-digit fake every time, no matter how good you think it is.

    For me the watches are PASSION... but I'm the first one to admit that putting so much money on a watch doesn't make sense. It's more like an addiction to keep buying them.
    Last edited by JPE; 26th September 2019 at 15:22.

  39. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by JPE View Post
    I don't know how many people assume it's a fake. If you're under 30, work at McDonalds and drive a 15-year old VW, they probably do. But I haven't seen any fakes among the middle aged business people. At least not here in Finland.
    I couldn't say - I see a Rolex - I think it's a Rolex, but I'd feel differently if I was looking to buy!

    Quote Originally Posted by JPE View Post
    I'm a big fan of homages myself. And I couldn't care LESS if someone wears a fake. It's just a watch. But don't tell me it's not a fake because I can and I WILL spot a 5-digit fake every time, no matter how good you think it is.
    You can, but most people can't. They might recognise the 'look' of a Submariner, but 99.999% of people couldn't tell if it was real or not across the room. I certainly couldn't.

    Quote Originally Posted by JPE View Post
    For me the watches are PASSION... but I'm the first one to admit that putting so much money on a watch doesn't make sense. It's more like an addiction to keep buying them.
    Hallejuah! That is true, but then (I suspect) those sort of people don't buy a fake Rolex, although sometimes I see links to 'Replica' forums where people seem just as passionate about the accuracy of their 'replica' - I know this can become and obsession in the replica car field (although there, at least, a lot of the obsession is about personally making something more 'authentic' rather than just about buying a better one).

    M

  40. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by RJM25R View Post

    I was going to give him a Golf R but I’m not rich enough.
    You could have tapped Skyman up for a loan? :)


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  41. #141
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    To be honest I thought that was easy to tell.

    Look at the way the 50 is bowed on the bezel of the SD

  42. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Kenney View Post
    What I do know is that some Guangzhou markets sell watches by weight as opposed to units
    USSR machine tool export quotas were done by weight, rather than number of machines shipped. That’s why my TOS weights roughly twice as much as the equivalent Bridgeport.

    Dave

  43. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by markrlondon View Post
    I used to have a very heavy Invicta diver that I joked was suitable for people who like to buy their watches by the pound. I never thought anyone would actually sell watches by weight!
    Wouldn't get many of these bad boys to the LB


  44. #144
    Master JPE's Avatar
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    I'm sure that Invicta will get noticed much more than any of my Rolex watches. :D

  45. #145
    Grand Master markrlondon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Kenney View Post
    Wouldn't get many of these bad boys to the LB
    Holy good gravy! That is utterly.... well, something.

    That rope round the outside is certainly innovative. Or something.

  46. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Kenney View Post
    Wouldn't get many of these bad boys to the LB


    Got to love Invicta - they may make the most hideous things on the planet, but the complete lack of any sense of shame is quite endearing!!!!

  47. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrGrumpy View Post
    Got to love Invicta - they may make the most hideous things on the planet, but the complete lack of any sense of shame is quite endearing!!!!
    I don't think we can blame Invicta for this particular monstrosity.

  48. #148
    Grand Master markrlondon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrGrumpy View Post
    the complete lack of any sense of shame is quite endearing!!!!
    Hehe, quite.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Kenney View Post
    I don't think we can blame Invicta for this particular monstrosity.
    Oh?

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