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Thread: Lemania 1340 movement info?

  1. #1
    Craftsman martyloveswatches's Avatar
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    Lemania 1340 movement info?

    Hello. I recently acquired vintage Alpina Startimer automatic sea-strong (yes, full name on the dial) with Lemania 1340 chrono movement. The watch is from 70's. I found out that this legendary movement was followed by Lemania 5100 and that even was used in some Omega models.

    Does anyone know more? I am very curious about this...

    Tnx

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  2. #2
    Master Sinnlover's Avatar
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    Is it not a 5100 with the day and 24 hour display removed?

  3. #3
    Craftsman martyloveswatches's Avatar
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    5100 was successor, inside is 1340 Lemania (that is what I was told by my colleague and friend, I have no reason to doubt that)

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  5. #5
    Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by cirotti View Post
    Very helpful, thank you. I hadnít seen the Chronomaddox site before, only having recently become interested in Lemania 5100 based watches.

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    Craftsman martyloveswatches's Avatar
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    Wow! Tnx for that...a good choice then

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  7. #7
    Master colin t's Avatar
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    Lemania 1340 movement info?

    This movement, when used in 70s Omega chronograph was marked up as the Omega Cal 1040.



    Last edited by colin t; 18th September 2019 at 17:34.

  8. #8
    Craftsman Tazmo61's Avatar
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    Some more information here on the Lemania 1340 , Omega cal 1040.

    https://journal.hautehorlogerie.org/...s-chronograph/

    Your watch is a beauty . They also did the other panda version which I think is stunning .

    Last edited by Tazmo61; 18th September 2019 at 17:37.

  9. #9
    Craftsman martyloveswatches's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tazmo61 View Post
    Some more information here on the Lemania 1340 , Omega cal 1040.

    https://journal.hautehorlogerie.org/...s-chronograph/

    Your watch is a beauty . They also did the other panda version which I think is stunning .

    I enjoyed every word...also I am so happy to have this piece of horological history. When I set the time and date for the first time, I realized how robust this is. Amazing...
    Still working strong cca -5s/day

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  10. #10
    Craftsman martyloveswatches's Avatar
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    Anyone with the same watch or panda dial feel free to post a few pics

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  11. #11
    Master sweets's Avatar
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    The 1340 is Lemania's haute horologie version of the 5100, pre-dating it (in terms of release) by only 4 years, meaning that the poor old 1340 was probably planned to be obsolete as soon as it was released, as the 5100 would have already been in development.
    It's slight foible is that it is clear that the winding does not disengage when the crown in withdrawn to the first setting detente position. This is also true of the 1341 (Tissot only) and 1343 (Regatta Timer) versions.
    It was also used by Sinn in their chronos before they moved onto the 5100, but being all steel, the movement was quite expensive.

    Georges' article on the ChronoMaddox site doesn't quite finish the story either, because the 1340 is also the base for the Breguet Type XXI (and XXII) movements, as Breguet inherited the Lemania factory when the Swatch Group decided to re-establish Breguet as a manufacture (and kill Lemania at the same time).

    So your Alpina has some very posh relatives.....

    Dave

  12. #12
    Craftsman Tazmo61's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sweets View Post
    The 1340 is Lemania's haute horologie version of the 5100, pre-dating it (in terms of release) by only 4 years, meaning that the poor old 1340 was probably planned to be obsolete as soon as it was released, as the 5100 would have already been in development.
    It's slight foible is that it is clear that the winding does not disengage when the crown in withdrawn to the first setting detente position. This is also true of the 1341 (Tissot only) and 1343 (Regatta Timer) versions.
    It was also used by Sinn in their chronos before they moved onto the 5100, but being all steel, the movement was quite expensive.

    Georges' article on the ChronoMaddox site doesn't quite finish the story either, because the 1340 is also the base for the Breguet Type XXI (and XXII) movements, as Breguet inherited the Lemania factory when the Swatch Group decided to re-establish Breguet as a manufacture (and kill Lemania at the same time).

    So your Alpina has some very posh relatives.....

    Dave
    The Breguet cal 582 .

    https://monochrome-watches.com/bregu...5-years-wrist/

  13. #13
    Craftsman martyloveswatches's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sweets View Post
    The 1340 is Lemania's haute horologie version of the 5100, pre-dating it (in terms of release) by only 4 years, meaning that the poor old 1340 was probably planned to be obsolete as soon as it was released, as the 5100 would have already been in development.
    It's slight foible is that it is clear that the winding does not disengage when the crown in withdrawn to the first setting detente position. This is also true of the 1341 (Tissot only) and 1343 (Regatta Timer) versions.
    It was also used by Sinn in their chronos before they moved onto the 5100, but being all steel, the movement was quite expensive.

    Georges' article on the ChronoMaddox site doesn't quite finish the story either, because the 1340 is also the base for the Breguet Type XXI (and XXII) movements, as Breguet inherited the Lemania factory when the Swatch Group decided to re-establish Breguet as a manufacture (and kill Lemania at the same time).

    So your Alpina has some very posh relatives.....

    Dave
    Tnx for explanation. Can you explain the crown possible problem once again (I am not a native english speaker...)? I wind it up (clockwise) when is fully locked in last position. First position is date change, second is time change (no hacking)

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    Master sweets's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by martyloveswatches View Post
    Tnx for explanation. Can you explain the crown possible problem once again (I am not a native english speaker...)? I wind it up (clockwise) when is fully locked in last position. First position is date change, second is time change (no hacking)

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    Sure, so in the first position, you will notice there is still resistance when you move the crown, you are setting the date and also winding the watch at the same time. This is perfectly normal

    D

  15. #15
    Craftsman martyloveswatches's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sweets View Post
    Sure, so in the first position, you will notice there is still resistance when you move the crown, you are setting the date and also winding the watch at the same time. This is perfectly normal

    D
    Yes, that was strange at first, now I get it

    Setting the date requires some power but on the other hand date changes so accurately and fast; you can feel the quality there

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  16. #16
    Master ed335d's Avatar
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    A 5012 powered cousin...


  17. #17
    Craftsman martyloveswatches's Avatar
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    Wrist time non stop

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    Master DimGR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by martyloveswatches View Post
    Hello. I recently acquired vintage Alpina Startimer automatic sea-strong (yes, full name on the dial) with Lemania 1340 chrono movement. The watch is from 70's. I found out that this legendary movement was followed by Lemania 5100 and that even was used in some Omega models.

    Does anyone know more? I am very curious about this...

    Tnx

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    I like the strap

    Where is it from ?


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  19. #19
    Grand Master number2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by colin t View Post



    Very envious,,
    "Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. The third time it's enemy action."

  20. #20
    Craftsman martyloveswatches's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DimGR View Post
    I like the strap

    Where is it from ?


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    It is a great strap, I ordered through aliexpress, very good quality. Link:

    HRK 109.12 11%OFF | nylon watch strap 18mm 20mm 22mm 24mm canvas strap +Rubber sole leather strap with stainless steel buckle free shipping
    https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/nrtNxdF6


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  21. #21
    Craftsman martyloveswatches's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by colin t View Post
    This movement, when used in 70s Omega chronograph was marked up as the Omega Cal 1040.



    What is the model and size? Tnx

    Looks fantastic

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  22. #22
    Master
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    Isnít this the same as a Sinn 140?

  23. #23
    Craftsman martyloveswatches's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TomGW View Post
    Isnít this the same as a Sinn 140?
    Well, more like Sinn is similar to this model...my Alpina is from 1974, Sinn originates from 1985.
    Movement inside is Lemania 1340, in Sinn is Lemania 5100 (succesor of 1340 which was more expensive to produce so it was replaced with 5100)
    Last edited by martyloveswatches; 21st September 2019 at 14:42.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by martyloveswatches View Post
    Well, more like Sinn is similar to this model...my Alpina is from 1974, Sinn originates from 1985.
    Movement inside is Lemania 1340, in Sinn is Lemania 5100 (succesor of 1340 which was more expensive to produce so it was replaced with 5100)
    Ah okay. Very nice watch. Iím a real sucker for this style and era.

  25. #25
    Craftsman martyloveswatches's Avatar
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    Well, I found all of this in the last few days, so I am quite new here myself

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  26. #26
    Master sweets's Avatar
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    Sorry, none of that is true.
    Sinn's own website claims the foundation of the Sinn company in 1961.
    And here is an early Sinn 140 using the Lemania 1340.



    And here is another with Sinn's rather wierd Doppelzeiger for Zulu and Zulu+1 time



    Dave

  27. #27
    Craftsman martyloveswatches's Avatar
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    I was reffering to Sinn 140 which was stated in the post earlier. Sinn 140 was introduced in 1985. Right?
    Dont know for other models you posted.

    This pilot watches design with inner rotating bezel, turtle case, dial layout can be seen in Sinn, Alpina, Lemania, ... from that era

    I dont know who introduced it first, but would be nice to know

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  28. #28
    Master
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    Am I imagining it or did they do a Malboro dial version of this?

  29. #29
    Craftsman martyloveswatches's Avatar
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    Seems like it...
    But hey, 45 yrs and ticking and looking like this...pretty great IMO

  30. #30
    Master sweets's Avatar
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    Those are Sinn 140s. Internal bezel? Check. Pilot watch? Check
    The 1985 date is when that model was flown into space, and Sinn (falsely) claimed it was the first automatic chronograph in space (an honour that we now know went to the Seiko Pogue).
    Furrer wore a 140 (S) - a black one, and 7 years later Flade wore a 142(S) with the 5100 movement.

  31. #31
    Craftsman martyloveswatches's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sweets View Post
    Those are Sinn 140s. Internal bezel? Check. Pilot watch? Check
    The 1985 date is when that model was flown into space, and Sinn (falsely) claimed it was the first automatic chronograph in space (an honour that we now know went to the Seiko Pogue).
    Furrer wore a 140 (S) - a black one, and 7 years later Flade wore a 142(S) with the 5100 movement.
    So what year is that early Sinn 140 (not talking about company foundation)?
    Who nailed it first?

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  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by martyloveswatches View Post
    So what year is that early Sinn 140 (not talking about company foundation)?
    Who nailed it first?

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    There is also a version with a Lemania dial...
    It is very difficult to say who came up with the design and the idea first.
    At the time you need to remember that brands shopped components from the same suppliers and put their brand on the dial.
    The Autavia 2446c shares the same case and movement as the sinn 103a and the jlc shark. Breguet xx also used the same case with a valjoux 23 for their xx and dugena also used the case with a Calibre 12 in it. Walkman also used the same case from base metal with a valjoux 7733, 7734 and 23 in it...
    So I guess you should be looking for the company that started manufacturing that case shape at the time...


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  33. #33
    Craftsman martyloveswatches's Avatar
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    Well, I did get a lot of info so tnx to everybody

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  34. #34
    Craftsman martyloveswatches's Avatar
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    Well, after researching now I am not sure whether I have a 1340 or 1341 Lemania movement. I should open the backacase and then see. Probably when service time is met

    Edit: it is 1341
    Last edited by martyloveswatches; 22nd September 2019 at 21:29.

  35. #35
    Master sweets's Avatar
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    Sinn did not start by making watches from a blank sheet of paper. Far from it.
    He used bought in designs, he copied other people's designs, he amalgamated designs to create new ones (for example the 156 is the illegitimate child of the Heuer Bund and the Porsche Design Bund).
    The 140 Case was bought in from a third party, who also sold it to many others - Alpina, Lemania, Marlboro, Sicura, Rodania, Richard, Rotary and VIP are the ones I have notes on.

    It fits the 1340 movement, and was designed for that, but Lemania was very specific about keepping its movements the same dimensions, so the 5100 just slots right in (much like the Omega 1861 manual wind chronographs fit into cases made for the earlier 321 movement generation).
    So the case existed in the early 1970s, and was made all the way until the 140 was killed off by Sinn. By the end Sinn themselves were probably making it, having bought the design, but it wasn't to begin with.

    Here is my own example of this case, a Lemania slate blue dial, with a 5100 and French Day wheel inside.


  36. #36
    Craftsman martyloveswatches's Avatar
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    It is cal. 1341 inside, the cal. 1340 has a 24h indicator added to the small second hand on the left.

    Beautiful blue dial btw

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  37. #37
    Craftsman martyloveswatches's Avatar
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    A good good info:
    https://omegaforums.net/threads/176-...-review.32325/

    Those seamasters are stunners!

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