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Thread: Cream dial Daytona question.

  1. #1
    Craftsman
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    Cream dial Daytona question.

    Pardon my ignorance but can someone enlighten me about these watches.

    Was that option offered from new ?

    Was it a faulty batch of dials , or was it just the white finish degrading over time ?


    Ta, in advance.

  2. #2

    Cream dial Daytona question.

    I donít know exactly what causes the colour change, but itís a change over time rather than an option from new.

  3. #3
    Grand Master Andyg's Avatar
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    Not an option. Much more likely the dials have simply changed colour as a result of environmental or atmospheric changes. My theory is that actually it's not the paint that faded, but the clear lacquer that was used as a top coat that has changed. Its not just unique to the Daytona. It also occurred on the 16550 (White) Explorer and most noticeable on those dials made Stern.

    On the Black Sports models (SD and Sub), you willalso find dials on which this lacquer has fractured or becomes matt. Interestedly it seems to affect dials made in the 1980's more than any other.

    These original but "defective" dials have become rarer simply because Rolex offered to replace them at service. An offer that many owners took up.

    Think of them as having patina

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  4. #4
    Master snowman's Avatar
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    These original but "defective" dials have become rarer simply because Rolex offered to replace them at service. An offer that many owners took up.

    Did Rolex not insist on replacing the dials at service?

    I just wondered if the 'cream dial' watches have not been back to Rolex or if Rolex allowed watches to age (with faulty finish) if owners prefer?

    M.

  5. #5
    Master reggie747's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andyg View Post
    Not an option. Much more likely the dials have simply changed colour as a result of environmental or atmospheric changes. My theory is that actually it's not the paint that faded, but the clear lacquer that was used as a top coat that has changed. Its not just unique to the Daytona. It also occurred on the 16550 (White) Explorer and most noticeable on those dials made Stern.

    On the Black Sports models (SD and Sub), you willalso find dials on which this lacquer has fractured or becomes matt. Interestedly it seems to affect dials made in the 1980's more than any other.

    These original but "defective" dials have become rarer simply because Rolex offered to replace them at service. An offer that many owners took up.

    Think of them as having patina
    Ahh, your theory then.....

  6. #6
    Master
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    I have 2004 white dial daytona that is creamy dial, seen a few round that age. Its in for service a few times before I got and dial was not changed which was fortunate

  7. #7
    Grand Master Andyg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by snowman View Post
    These original but "defective" dials have become rarer simply because Rolex offered to replace them at service. An offer that many owners took up.

    Did Rolex not insist on replacing the dials at service?

    I just wondered if the 'cream dial' watches have not been back to Rolex or if Rolex allowed watches to age (with faulty finish) if owners prefer?

    M.
    Rolexs service strategy was to make the watch "look like new". Hence old matte dials were updated to glossy ones - this happened on my 16800, but fortunately the old Dial was returned. Hand set were replaced, as were dials (especially if the lume was dead). I had a number of watches serviced by Rolex in 1990's/2000's and on each occasion they have offered to replace parts (at a cost). They even offered to replace my crackled Dial on my 16660 in the early 2000's.

    I can only assume that "back in the day", Rolex might have simply replaced parts as a good will gesture or that customers paid to have parts replaced. I mean who would want their dead matte Dial replaced with a nice glossy Dial which had lume that glowed

    You have to remember that before the cult of Rolex Vintage, most people just wanted a watch that worked and looked nice.

    Regarding the "cremes". Basically there is nothing wrong with the Dial except the colour, so unless the customer expressed a desire to have a "white" Dial, I imagine Rolex left well alone, especially if the lume was still alive. Nowadays no one in their right mind would ask to have a Creme Dial replaced, but if they did then I am sure Rolex would do it if they has a replacement available.

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  8. #8
    Grand Master Andyg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by reggie747 View Post
    Ahh, your theory then.....
    Indeed. A theory based on 35 years of Rolex ownership, actually owning a Creme 16550 plus quite a bit of study, but if you don't subscribe to my theory, why not post your own.

    Better still try getting an official answer from Rolex. Good luck.

    Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
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  9. #9

    Cream dial Daytona question.

    Quote Originally Posted by Andyg View Post
    Indeed. A theory based on 35 years of Rolex ownership, actually owning a Creme 16550 plus quite a bit of study, but if you don't subscribe to my theory, why not post your own.

    Better still try getting an official answer from Rolex. Good luck.
    Does owning one really help? Can you see the colour of the lacquer vs. the paint?

  10. #10
    Master reggie747's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andyg View Post
    Indeed. A theory based on 35 years of Rolex ownership, actually owning a Creme 16550 plus quite a bit of study, but if you don't subscribe to my theory, why not post your own.

    Better still try getting an official answer from Rolex. Good luck.

  11. #11
    Master snowman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andyg View Post
    Rolexs service strategy was to make the watch "look like new". Hence old matte dials were updated to glossy ones - this happened on my 16800, but fortunately the old Dial was returned. Hand set were replaced, as were dials (especially if the lume was dead). I had a number of watches serviced by Rolex in 1990's/2000's and on each occasion they have offered to replace parts (at a cost). They even offered to replace my crackled Dial on my 16660 in the early 2000's.

    I can only assume that "back in the day", Rolex might have simply replaced parts as a good will gesture or that customers paid to have parts replaced. I mean who would want their dead matte Dial replaced with a nice glossy Dial which had lume that glowed

    You have to remember that before the cult of Rolex Vintage, most people just wanted a watch that worked and looked nice.
    Yes, that was my thinking, but I didn't know what the policy was.

    Thanks.

    M.

  12. #12
    Grand Master Andyg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kingstepper View Post
    Does owning one really help? Can you see the colour of the lacquer vs. the paint?
    Perhaps not, but study does.

    I have two 16550's, both of which date between 1983 and 1986.

    The Black Rail faced one first.

    For this I have used as an example a couple of "Rail" watches that I own. A 16550 and a 1665. Both are black and both made only 4 years apart. Both dials were made by Stern. The 1665 (1979) is matte, the 16550 (1983/4) is glossy.

    If i look at the SD1665, the matte paint on the dial is perfect. However the dial on the later Glossy 16550 has "crackled". If you actually study it under a loupe you can actually see parts of the glossy finish has started to delaminate from the Black matte painted surface of the dial underneath. The matte Black paint is perfect. It's the glossy coating which is starting to fall off. Hence one conclusion you could reach is that there is clearly a problem with the glossy coating that was applied to Black dialled watches. Note I have also seen this problem on a 16660 from 1985/6 and on 16800 from the same period.

    The colour change issue with 16550 Creme Dial watches is a bit more tricky to figure out. Especially as the 16550 Cremes come in many flavours and with many degrees of colour change.

    The most common one being a "Rail" version - are we seeing a theme develop yet?? Mine however isn't, because it's rarer Creme known as the "non-hyphen" version, but because ithe Dial is unmarked with a manufacturers stamp, I cannot attribute it. However if you accept all dials started off as polar white (irrespective of who made them), as published in all Rolex's marketing material, then it fair to assume that the colour change is due to either a clear lacquer being applied or the base paint. Now none of the Creme dials I have seen have any delamination, so MY THEORY is that unlike the Black Dials which definitely have a glossy clear coat applied over a matte paint, the Polar Dials were either printed using a gloss paint (something like an enamel) or that the adhesion between the polar paint and the lacquer is simply better.

    Now, and this is where it get really odd. In addition to the Black Rail and Creme Non-Hyphen, I have two other 16550 Dials. One is perfectly polar White (which really does look like it's enamel) and the other, a perfectly glossy Black. Neither of which show any signs of colour change or delamination, which suggests to me that they might have come from different manufacturers (Singer, etc) or that the issue was fixed.

    Actually thinking about it, owning actual examples did help.

    As for the Daytona Patrizzi dials, these all date from around 2002 and it is generally accepted that they were the result of a manufacturing issue. Which would also explain the issue with "crackled" black dials from the 1980's and also the colour change on the polar 16550's.
    Last edited by Andyg; 12th September 2019 at 08:14.

    Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
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  13. #13
    Grand Master Andyg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by reggie747 View Post
    Self portrait. Nice, soon you might be out of nappies.

    Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
    Friedrich Nietzsche


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