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Thread: Recommend a SIPP provider

  1. #1
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    Recommend a SIPP provider

    Hi folks,

    I opened a SIPP witH Hargreaves Lansdown some months ago, but having read a similar thread on the subject, I'm conscious that HL may not be the most cost effective provider.

    Is there any independent research available to compare charges of providers as I'm considering switching if there are more cost effective providers with lower aggregate charges?


    Grateful for any advice that you have.

    Thanks

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    Quote Originally Posted by klunk View Post
    Hi folks,

    I opened a SIPP witH Hargreaves Lansdown some months ago, but having read a similar thread on the subject, I'm conscious that HL may not be the most cost effective provider.

    Is there any independent research available to compare charges of providers as I'm considering switching if there are more cost effective providers with lower aggregate charges?


    Grateful for any advice that you have.

    Thanks
    My IFA has put me on the Royal London SIPP because he believes it's the best performing and has low costs.

    I've just noticed you're in the West Mids, I could put you in contact with him if you're interested?

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by dickdutch View Post
    My IFA has put me on the Royal London SIPP because he believes it's the best performing and has low costs.

    I've just noticed you're in the West Mids, I could put you in contact with him if you're interested?
    That's interesting, I've just started a new job and the Employer's workplace pension scheme is managed by RL.

    Thanks - any additional info would be useful.

  4. #4
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    I don't have a comparison site for you I'm afraid but FWIW I was moved to Fidelity from Transact due to low costs, especially of fund switching.

  5. #5
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    Surely it is very dependent on how you will contribute to it and what you are intending to hold inside it.

    My SIPP is with Fidelity because it is capped at 45 per annum on ETFs and thats all I hold there.
    Funds/OEIC are held elsewhere as it works out cheaper.

    The more you can elaborate then more you can be advised.

    A SIPP is only the wrapper.

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    Anyone got any info on whether Vanguard are any nearer to launching their delayed SIPP?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ~dadam02~ View Post
    Anyone got any info on whether Vanguard are any nearer to launching their delayed SIPP?
    I gave up waiting, pure farce that an organisation that size cannot get it sorted.

    I still have an ISA with them but will soon be moving that to a fixed fee platform.

  8. #8
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    Maybe post over on the PH Finance forum as this topic has been covered a number of times:
    https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/forum.asp?h=0&f=206

    AJ Bell, Fidelity, Interactive Investor all have low cost options.

  9. #9
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    Comparison spreadsheet available from snowman here - https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com....php?t=5583030

    Also another comparison site - http://www.comparefundplatforms.com

    HL are not good for larger funds and their name somewhat tarnished by the close relationship with Neil Woodford.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Pointy View Post
    Maybe post over on the PH Finance forum as this topic has been covered a number of times:
    https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/forum.asp?h=0&f=206

    AJ Bell, Fidelity, Interactive Investor all have low cost options.
    Thanks very much, I'll take a look at that

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by broxie View Post
    Comparison spreadsheet available from snowman here - https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com....php?t=5583030

    Also another comparison site - http://www.comparefundplatforms.com

    HL are not good for larger funds and their name somewhat tarnished by the close relationship with Neil Woodford.
    That's very useful, thanks

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Benji053 View Post
    Surely it is very dependent on how you will contribute to it and what you are intending to hold inside it.

    My SIPP is with Fidelity because it is capped at 45 per annum on ETFs and that’s all I hold there.
    Funds/OEIC are held elsewhere as it works out cheaper.

    The more you can elaborate then more you can be advised.

    A SIPP is only the wrapper.
    Apologies, maybe should have provide more detail, looking to invest in small number of managed funds as I have a broad range of investment trusts, ETF's/ETC's and individual shares in my ISA.

    I'm looking at funds such as Lindsell Train UK/Global Equity, Vanguard life Strategy, Bailie Gifford Managed etc.

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    Just had an email from Vanguard who are finally launching their SIPP, although they are still vague about the exact date...early 2020.

    0.15% annual account fee capped at 375 annually across all your Vanguard accounts, so if you plan to only hold Vanguard funds this is pretty competitive.

    I was just about to take advantage of the Fidelity cash back offer to move across from HL, but Ill hold out for this now.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by PhilT View Post
    Just had an email from Vanguard who are finally launching their SIPP, although they are still vague about the exact date...early 2020.

    0.15% annual account fee capped at 375 annually across all your Vanguard accounts, so if you plan to only hold Vanguard funds this is pretty competitive.

    I was just about to take advantage of the Fidelity cash back offer to move across from HL, but Ill hold out for this now.
    Was just going to post about this, ive been waiting and buying VLS 80 through HL SIPP which ill stop and start with Vanguard. Good price and i like the Vanguard platform and general ethos. I might move an ancient Aviva pension in which im being done for 1.5%.

  14. #14
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    I've got quite a bit in HL in a Vanguard LS 80. Is it possible to move that across to the Vanguard Sipp in isolation?

    Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

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    Quote Originally Posted by ryanb741 View Post
    I've got quite a bit in HL in a Vanguard LS 80. Is it possible to move that across to the Vanguard Sipp in isolation?

    Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk
    I'll be doing exactly this too, lower fees is definitely worth it.

    I guess just sell the LS80 portion and then transfer the cash to the new SIPP, out of the market while this happens.

    Unless there is a limit on how many SIPPs can be held by a person?

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    Quote Originally Posted by T1ckT0ck View Post
    I guess just sell the LS80 portion and then transfer the cash to the new SIPP, out of the market while this happens.
    Don't do that - see if Vanguard can do an in specie transfer from HL. This keeps you invested in LS80 across the move.

    You can have as many SIPPs as you like as long as you don't contribute more than your allowed maximum each year.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Pointy View Post
    Don't do that - see if Vanguard can do an in specie transfer from HL. This keeps you invested in LS80 across the move.

    You can have as many SIPPs as you like as long as you don't contribute more than your allowed maximum each year.
    Superb! Thanks for the heads up on this.


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    Quote Originally Posted by PhilT View Post
    Just had an email from Vanguard who are finally launching their SIPP, although they are still vague about the exact date...early 2020.

    0.15% annual account fee capped at 375 annually across all your Vanguard accounts, so if you plan to only hold Vanguard funds this is pretty competitive.

    I was just about to take advantage of the Fidelity cash back offer to move across from HL, but Ill hold out for this now.
    That's very handy timing for me, thanks for the heads up...

    Cheers,
    Adam.


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  19. #19
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    I expect HL will react to the new Vanguard SIPP with a cut in their fees.

    I cant for a second imagine HL just sitting back and letting droves of their core investors wave goodbye.

    I complained about the fee increase a number of years ago and HL were good and out a few cap on my accounts to keep me as a customer. Im pretty sure my cap is lower than 375.

  20. #20
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    i Have thought about moving some of my SIPP over to the Vanguard if only to have the pension invested with two different brokers in case one of them ever has a fall from grace.

    I keep meaning to look into what would happen to my SIPP and savings money if HL went pop.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr noble View Post
    I expect HL will react to the new Vanguard SIPP with a cut in their fees.

    I cant for a second imagine HL just sitting back and letting droves of their core investors wave goodbye.

    I complained about the fee increase a number of years ago and HL were good and out a few cap on my accounts to keep me as a customer. Im pretty sure my cap is lower than 375.
    Sorry.. Can you expand on you last paragraph? Tia

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  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr noble View Post
    i Have thought about moving some of my SIPP over to the Vanguard if only to have the pension invested with two different brokers in case one of them ever has a fall from grace.

    I keep meaning to look into what would happen to my SIPP and savings money if HL went pop.
    You funds are kept in a client account so even if HL went under you would not lose your money. Of course if you hold Vanguard with both Vanguard & HL you have no diversity if Vanguard drop the ball so you might want to consider that.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by TAG0001 View Post
    Sorry.. Can you expand on you last paragraph? Tia

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    Sure.

    It was a number of years back when HL changed their fee structure to what it is now. Prior to that, when they were a lot smaller, they were cheaper.

    I got the letter, sent them a snotty message via the secure message portal and they messaged back to say they would cap my annual fee, so that I didnt see any increase in my costs.

    I think I was one of the lucky ones while they tried to deal with the fall out of the fee hike.

    No idea how youd get on now, but if you called them and said youre planning to take your SIPP elsewhere due to their fees being higher, they might well offer you a cap. No different to what we all do with our Sky TV subscription each year.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Pointy View Post
    You funds are kept in a client account so even if HL went under you would not lose your money. Of course if you hold Vanguard with both Vanguard & HL you have no diversity if Vanguard drop the ball so you might want to consider that.
    Agreed. Id probably move 60% or 70% onto the Vanguard platform and leave 30-40% in HL but move to another fund. Maybe the Blackrock one which is similar to LifeStrategy.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr noble View Post
    Sure.

    It was a number of years back when HL changed their fee structure to what it is now. Prior to that, when they were a lot smaller, they were cheaper.

    I got the letter, sent them a snotty message via the secure message portal and they messaged back to say they would cap my annual fee, so that I didnt see any increase in my costs.

    I think I was one of the lucky ones while they tried to deal with the fall out of the fee hike.

    No idea how youd get on now, but if you called them and said youre planning to take your SIPP elsewhere due to their fees being higher, they might well offer you a cap. No different to what we all do with our Sky TV subscription each year.
    Thanks!

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    The Vanguard SIPP just went live this morning, finally.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ~dadam02~ View Post
    The Vanguard SIPP just went live this morning, finally.
    Thanks yes I noticed.
    Ive recently opened a SIPP account with II, but might consider
    transferring to Vanguard if the costs are lower.

  28. #28
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    I want to transfer my Lifestrategy 80 Portfolio from HL to Vanguard due to lower fees. I'll keep the rest of my funds in HL as they aren't offered on Vanguard I don't believe (Fundsmith, Baillie Gifford etc). Is it possible to just transfer part of the portfolio?

  29. #29
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    Maybe. Just ask HL. Take 2 seconds. More reliable info than those on here surely ? ?

  30. #30
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    I'm having trouble opening an account with Vanguard, be sure to use the Transfer link on their website if you are moving a pension in as that's not included in the general 'open a new SIPP'.

    EDIT: Got it to work. From the "What we offer" menu select "transfer a pension". Other links (within pages) did not work for me.
    Last edited by T1ckT0ck; 19th February 2020 at 14:08.

  31. #31
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    Think Ill wait a couple of days for any teething problems to be resolved - its taken them this long to set the thing up youd think it would be well tested, but lets see...

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    Yes, I’d say for the sake of a month or two it’s probably worth waiting for the dust to settle.


    I would also imagine the other platforms to respond when they’ve had a chance to gauge how many of their Vanguard investors are looking to jump ship.

    I expect if you call HL, for example, and tell them you’re moving to vanguard, they may well agree to cap your fees, rather than lose you as a customer, meaning you get the same rate without the hassle of moving platforms.

    I can’t imagine the other platforms just sitting still and letting VG take a huge chunk of their customers away.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr noble View Post
    Yes, I’d say for the sake of a month or two it’s probably worth waiting for the dust to settle.


    I would also imagine the other platforms to respond when they’ve had a chance to gauge how many of their Vanguard investors are looking to jump ship.

    I expect if you call HL, for example, and tell them you’re moving to vanguard, they may well agree to cap your fees, rather than lose you as a customer, meaning you get the same rate without the hassle of moving platforms.

    I can’t imagine the other platforms just sitting still and letting VG take a huge chunk of their customers away.
    I have contacted HL and there email response was effectively we have recently changed / removed charges, market leader, support, excellent platform, etc.

    I think you may be right but they will definitely sit on their hands for a while.


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  34. #34
    can someone explain the subtle difference between a SIPP and a SASS, there are two of us and we have always had a SASS rather than SIPP's

  35. #35
    Master mr noble's Avatar
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    I think.......a SSAS usually gets done for you via a company you own or work for.

    SIPP is fully self administered and not bound to a company or business.

    So if you decided to move your SSAS to Hargreaves Landsdowne, for example, it would become a SIPP.



    I'd google it and read the link below rather than listen to me.



    https://www.onlinemoneyadvisor.co.uk.../sipp-vs-ssas/

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by ryanb741 View Post
    I've got quite a bit in HL in a Vanguard LS 80. Is it possible to move that across to the Vanguard Sipp in isolation?

    Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk
    Unfortunately HL won't let you do an 'in specie' transfer, i.e. moving the Vanguard units over like for like. Instead they would liquidate your position (= convert it into cash), then transfer the cash over to Vanguard, then you would need to buy units again for cash.

    Still worth it IMHO - HL don't have a great track record for being cost efficient.

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by ryanb741 View Post
    I want to transfer my Lifestrategy 80 Portfolio from HL to Vanguard due to lower fees. I'll keep the rest of my funds in HL as they aren't offered on Vanguard I don't believe (Fundsmith, Baillie Gifford etc). Is it possible to just transfer part of the portfolio?
    That's a gerat question Ryna, and a fair point. Unfortunately (and I hope I got that one wrong, but my research/knowledge would indicate that I didn't) it's pretty much 'all or nothing' with transferring these SIPPs from one provider to another.

    What does HL charge your for the Lifestrategy 80 from Vanguard, as opposed to holding those directly with Vangaurd in a SIPP?

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by WolfiesPapa View Post
    Unfortunately HL won't let you do an 'in specie' transfer, i.e. moving the Vanguard units over like for like. Instead they would liquidate your position (= convert it into cash), then transfer the cash over to Vanguard, then you would need to buy units again for cash.

    Still worth it IMHO - HL don't have a great track record for being cost efficient.
    It's not HL that won't let you transfer in-specie: it's a defect of the Vanguard SIPP platform. Apparantly you can't yet take cash-free or income drawdown either so calling it a SIPP is pushing the definition a bit. Maybe they hope they have a few years to get it right before any of the new clients want their money out.

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by WolfiesPapa View Post
    What does HL charge your for the Lifestrategy 80 from Vanguard, as opposed to holding those directly with Vangaurd in a SIPP?
    The standard HL charge is 0.45% on top: basically they charge double what Vanguard do for actually running the fund. That pretty website isn't cheap & there's a reason Hargreaves & Lansdown are very, very rich people.

  40. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by mr noble View Post
    I think.......a SSAS usually gets done for you via a company you own or work for.

    SIPP is fully self administered and not bound to a company or business.

    So if you decided to move your SSAS to Hargreaves Landsdowne, for example, it would become a SIPP.



    I'd google it and read the link below rather than listen to me.



    https://www.onlinemoneyadvisor.co.uk.../sipp-vs-ssas/
    Thanks Greg, so in my case the SSAS has a couple of bolt on's making it more flexible.
    Last edited by adrianw; 20th February 2020 at 13:41.

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Pointy View Post
    It's not HL that won't let you transfer in-specie: it's a defect of the Vanguard SIPP platform. Apparantly you can't yet take cash-free or income drawdown either so calling it a SIPP is pushing the definition a bit. Maybe they hope they have a few years to get it right before any of the new clients want their money out.
    So when you are getting close to retirement when you intend to take out cash or want an income, you will have to switch to another SIPP provider - is that correct?

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by klunk View Post
    So when you are getting close to retirement when you intend to take out cash or want an income, you will have to switch to another SIPP provider - is that correct?
    Well you would think that Vanguard will have sorted it out by then but if they haven't then yes you would.

    Anyone switching now as cash should be aware they could be out of the market for some weeks - some have reported SIPP transfers can take 8 weeks (that's a general point, not just a Vanguard issue).

  43. #43
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    I have opened a Vanguard Sipp and initiated a transfer from a secondary smaller Aviva pension, before moving some/all of my HL holdings.

    I will update once completed, so as a guide to timelines.


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  44. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by T1ckT0ck View Post
    I have opened a Vanguard Sipp and initiated a transfer from a secondary smaller Aviva pension, before moving some/all of my HL holdings.

    I will update once completed, so as a guide to timelines.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    I have an older Aviva stakeholder Pension consisting of a few general tracker funds - did you have to speak to Aviva about transferring to cash, transfer and closing the account etc before you started the transfer to Vanguard? I'll be interested in how long this will take - thanks

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by vulcangascompany View Post
    I have an older Aviva stakeholder Pension consisting of a few general tracker funds - did you have to speak to Aviva about transferring to cash, transfer and closing the account etc before you started the transfer to Vanguard? I'll be interested in how long this will take - thanks
    I opened the Vanguard SIPP via the Transfer option which means no cash deposit is required to open it beforehand.

    That process creates a transfer request document that is sent Aviva by Vanguard but on my behalf, I get a copy held on the Vanguard platform.

    Aviva receive it, sell my funds creating cash, then transfer that cash to Vanguard who put into into the fund(s) I nominated or held as cash if you want to distribute it to funds at a later stage.

    Aviva will give you a transfer value (via My Aviva if you are registered) which is only valid at that time so the cash value may be more or less depending on the market at the time the funds get sold.

    Some pension providers may apply charges to transfer out but in my case no fees, although I still would have.

    So far i'm quite impressed with Vanguard online platform, bit less clunky than HL which has obviously evolved over time.

    Moving my Vanguard holdings to HL will be a similar process as Vanguard only accepts cash transfers at the moment.

    Hope that helps.

  46. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by T1ckT0ck View Post
    I opened the Vanguard SIPP via the Transfer option which means no cash deposit is required to open it beforehand.

    That process creates a transfer request document that is sent Aviva by Vanguard but on my behalf, I get a copy held on the Vanguard platform.

    Aviva receive it, sell my funds creating cash, then transfer that cash to Vanguard who put into into the fund(s) I nominated or held as cash if you want to distribute it to funds at a later stage.

    Aviva will give you a transfer value (via My Aviva if you are registered) which is only valid at that time so the cash value may be more or less depending on the market at the time the funds get sold.

    Some pension providers may apply charges to transfer out but in my case no fees, although I still would have.

    So far i'm quite impressed with Vanguard online platform, bit less clunky than HL which has obviously evolved over time.

    Moving my Vanguard holdings to HL will be a similar process as Vanguard only accepts cash transfers at the moment.

    Hope that helps.

    Thanks for your experience! That seems relatively painless, i'm currently paying 1.2% a year on Aviva funds so moving to Vanguard LS seems like a good deal.

  47. #47
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    Morning all,

    hope you are all staying healthy.

    I'm planning to open a new SIPP with Vanguard on April 6th and just wanted to get any additional feedback on how any of you have found the platform and customer service provided by Vanguard.
    I'm asking this as I recently opened a SIPP with II and I've been distinctly unimpressed with their level of customer service.
    Last edited by klunk; 26th March 2020 at 11:59.

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by klunk View Post
    I'm planning to open a new SIPP with Vanguard on April 6th and just wanted to get any additional feedback on how any of you have found the platform and customer service provided by Vanguard.
    I'm asking this as I recently opened a SIPP with II and I've been distinctly unimpressed with their level of customer service.
    In general the Vanguard platform works quite well, but then it doesn't have to cope with thousands of different stocks & funds given that you can only invest in Vanguard funds (there are 77). I've used the secure message facility a couple of times & generally received an answer in a couple of days.

    Be aware the SIPP currently has very limited facilities - there are reports you cannot setup recurring payments for instance & there's no mechanism for drawndown or the like. Presumably these will be added in time but at the moment it's all a bit basic. They did manage an in-specie transfer in from another provider but it took a few weeks.

    Is there a particular reason for selecting Vanguard?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Pointy View Post
    In general the Vanguard platform works quite well, but then it doesn't have to cope with thousands of different stocks & funds given that you can only invest in Vanguard funds (there are 77). I've used the secure message facility a couple of times & generally received an answer in a couple of days.

    Be aware the SIPP currently has very limited facilities - there are reports you cannot setup recurring payments for instance & there's no mechanism for drawndown or the like. Presumably these will be added in time but at the moment it's all a bit basic. They did manage an in-specie transfer in from another provider but it took a few weeks.

    Is there a particular reason for selecting Vanguard?
    Thanks for the reply - yes, I opened my II SIPP about 3 months ago and began investing in the Vanguard Lifestrategy 80 fund.
    I'm planning on transferring that and further investments into the Vanguard SIPP because of the lower charges on Vanguard funds.
    I was aware of the issue with drawdown, but when you say that you can't set up recurring payments, do you mean such as a monthly direct debit payment?

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  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by klunk View Post
    Thanks for the reply - yes, I opened my II SIPP about 3 months ago and began investing in the Vanguard Lifestrategy 80 fund.
    I'm planning on transferring that and further investments into the Vanguard SIPP because of the lower charges on Vanguard funds.
    I was aware of the issue with drawdown, but when you say that you can't set up recurring payments, do you mean such as a monthly direct debit payment?
    I've looked up the source & it seems that you can make personal DD contributions but not employer ones from a company account:
    https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/...t=1852627&i=40

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